What exactly did you expect? If you have a town full of idiots, you really won't have many jobs for them in a data center. This is the greatest issue right now in America, people expecting jobs, handouts or whatever and taking no responsibility to obtain said jobs through education and self development.
It really is too bad that corporal punishment is frowned upon in the US these days because I honest believe the only way to reach people at this level is through brutal readjustment. One can not expect to be handed employment, it is earned just like anything else in this country.
Maybe some brutal readjustment might work on you to make you a nicer person.
I understand why they would be disappointed in only 50 jobs -- they probably thought it would be a major employer, based on the size of the facility.
That just means that their expectations were out of line with reality. (Although -- those are some big tax breaks for only 50 jobs!)
The line that caught my attention -- the jobs 'are not for us' -- that's exactly right. And it's not Apple's problem. Furniture making is a fantastic skill -- but it doesn't lend itself at all to high tech jobs.
A high tech firm that needs lots of local workers would never be able to re-locate to Maiden, because the people don't have the skills to do the jobs. Better than complaining is to get their children educated enough so that in the future the children will be able to work those 50 jobs -- or some other high tech job.
50 is a lot better than zero. BTW, Apple is not a charity.
I wonder how much the area benefitted from all the construction jobs that it took to build the facility. Those workers had to buy food, gas, etc., etc. -- had to be a plus for the area.
It is that attitude which is why the West is in the mess it is. Liberal thinking that says a) Employ people, even if you do not need or cannot afford them. b) Loan people money for items or property they havn't a hope in hell of repaying.
I suppose I'm what you would consider a Liberal. I don't think either of those things, and neither does any Liberal I know.
Maybe those people didn't know much about what it takes to run a datacenter and thought that it would bring (or were told it would bring) more jobs to the area they'd be qualified for. And now they found out their not qualified and are disappointed by it.
Most people want to work and contribute. Stop buying into the right-wing fallacy that 50% of the planet wants to sit around and do nothing.
Balanced, rational posts sprinkled with delusional, reactionary replies to the big bad corporate giant that is Apple. I'm glad to see posters are wrapping up their holiday away from the computer.
"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."
If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.
So it's Apple's fault that the local workforce doesn't posess the set of skills Apple requires? I don't think so.
The locals should challenge their local officials to work with businesses to come up with a plan to rapidly retrain the workforce for the available jobs. Without a concerted effort in that direction, the problem will persist.
Why is it a disgrace? If the set up only requires 50 employees, then it only requires 50 employees! Why take on 150 people to have most of them sat around doing nothing? Or did I miss the news article that saw Apple become a registered charity?
I agree that it makes no sense for Apple to hire additional people they don't need. However, as it often happens, local politicians granted Apple ridiculous tax breaks in exchange for... what, exactly?
This is the same old story that has played itself out at both the local and national level. Politicians and their corporate sponsors push the idea that businesses must be given tax breaks in order to create more jobs, except there's absolutely no strings attached that they actually do so, so it's nothing but corporate welfare. When new jobs are actually created they're usually small in number, low paying and in no way tied to whatever tax breaks the corporation received.
Considering Apple is one of (if not the) largest and most profitable companies on the planet, you have to wonder why they need any tax breaks or loopholes when there's no payback in exchange. Now I'm a huge Apple fan and I don't think they're doing anything wrong - as a business they're trying to minimize costs and maximize profits - but this is a fine example of why this tired old story needs to be put to rest and corporate welfare needs to end immediately.
"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."
If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.
Of course. Having ratables is the important thing to any municipality. I wish they'd build one in MY town.
"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."
If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.
Yes, and never mind the fact that those taxes are needed to pay for education, among other things, directly impacting the reason why there aren't more local people qualified to apply for Apple's higher paying jobs.
I agree that it makes no sense for Apple to hire additional people they don't need. However, as it often happens, local politicians granted Apple ridiculous tax breaks in exchange for... what, exactly?
This is the same old story that has played itself out at both the local and national level. Politicians and their corporate sponsors push the idea that businesses must be given tax breaks in order to create more jobs, except there's absolutely no strings attached that they actually do so, so it's nothing but corporate welfare. When new jobs are actually created they're usually small in number, low paying and in no way tied to whatever tax breaks the corporation received.
Considering Apple is one of (if not the) largest and most profitable companies on the planet, you have to wonder why they need any tax breaks or loopholes when there's no payback in exchange. Now I'm a huge Apple fan and I don't think they're doing anything wrong - as a business they're trying to minimize costs and maximize profits - but this is a fine example of why this tired old story needs to be put to rest and corporate welfare needs to end immediately.
Of course they don't need the tax break in the sense that they need a financial handout, but did they need to build in this town, in this county, in this state? I don't think any one of those three locations were a requirement so Apple held the cards. Does a retailer need to give a discount on Black Friday? Of course not, but they want to benefit from one of the busiest shopping days of the year so they lower prices to entice buyers. Tax breaks are no different to get the business that Apple would otherwise take elsewhere. This type of economics is not only common, but natural.
Of course they don't need the tax break in the sense that have no money, but did they need to build in this town, in this county, in this state? I don't think any one of those three locations were a requirement so Apple held the cards. Does a retailer need to give a discount on Black Friday? Of course not, but they want to benefit from one of the busiest shopping days of the year so they lower prices to entice buyers. Tax breaks are no different to get the business that Apple would otherwise take elsewhere. This type of economics is not only common, but natural.
When a retailer discounts its products, the intended result is an increase in sales, thereby making the promotion a productive investment.
But exactly how did the state or local community benefit from having Apple build their data center there? If Apple only created a few new jobs and if there were no other strings attached - for example helping to train/educate locals for high tech jobs - then what exactly did the community get in return for the $46 million tax breaks and loss of revenue from the 50% reduction in property taxes and 85% reduction in personal taxes that will only place increased strains on already struggling services such as education ?
How many jobs were there when Donnie and Kathy Fulbright lived on that land?
How many jobs were there after Apple moved in?
Unless those 50 new jobs went to locals and paid about $1M each, I don't see how they offset the $46 million in tax breaks, not to mention the huge cuts in personal and property taxes, that will impact the residents of the town and state.
Worst case scenario 25 jobs brings unemployment down .7%
50 jobs brings it down 1.5%
250 jobs brings it down 7.4%
Plus tax money to the town.
I can see why some of these people think that data jobs from Apple isn't for them and why their unemployment rate is so high. Basic math and logic must be hard to come by in this small town...
True- but unemployment is 15-65 yr olds. (sometimes 16-65 depending on state). So those numbers will increase. But I still agree with you that they're overreacting.
?tax breaks of up to $46 million over the next 10 years?
I'm sure the nature of the jobs at the tech center disappointed locals. But how many man-years of construction employment did it provide the city? The county? The state? After the tax cut, is apple paying NO local or state taxes, or just a reduced amount? How much? How much will it pay annually starting ten years from now?
It's not an article--at least as reported here--that would pass many newspaper editors' desks without a demand for more.
(OT: It's like that Romney tv ad last week that criticized Obama for what he said--when Obama was really quoting a republican candidate to make a critical point. Worst part is, romney's camp, caught on the deceit, stood behind it. No matter who you're for, that's just bs).
A new report claims that local residents view Apple's massive data center in Maiden, N.C. has been a "disappointing development" because it has brought just 50 full-time jobs to the area, which is struggling with double-digit unemployment rates.
The Washington Post spoke to several residents from the small town of 3,400 about Apple's $1 billion project.
?Apple really doesn?t mean a thing to this town,? said Tony Parker, a furniture maker in the town.
Kelly McRee, Parker's son-in-law, viewed the benefits of the company coming to town as largely symbolic. ?Apple was the apple of everybody?s eye, but that?s about it. It was something for everyone to ooh and aah over.?
But, Maiden Town Manager William "Todd" Herms believes Apple does have a positive impact on residents' lives. ?I think the average citizen sees it affecting life,? he said. ?They are a great corporate neighbor.?
At the least, two residents have benefitted significantly from Apple's venture. Donnie and Kathy Fulbright received $1.7 million from the company for their one-acre property. Apple had to make several offers for their land and eventually asked them to set their own price.
As for others, the data center hasn't been a help to them. When asked how tough things were in Maiden, Samantha Saunders, the owner of a local hardware store, said, ?The extreme of tough.?
An unemployed Maiden resident voiced doubt to the Post that jobs at the data center are actually accessible to locals. ?People from around here don?t get those jobs,? he said. ?Really, furniture is the only thing I know. Those data jobs are not for us.?
The North Carolina legislature amended its corporate income tax law in order to offer Apple tax breaks of up to $46 million over the next 10 years to build its data center in the state. According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent. In exchange, Apple has created 50 full-time jobs and is also expected to create 250 "indirect contracting jobs."
The state's unemployment rate of 10.5 percent currently stands as one of the highest in the U.S. The area around Maiden has an even higher jobless rate of 13 percent.
Apple announced Maiden as the location for the data center project, codenamed "Project Dolphin," in 2009. According to the company, the server farm, which opened up earlier this year, supports its iTunes, MobileMe and iCloud services.
The Cupertino, Calif., company does not appear to be finished with developments on the data center. Recently-revealed permits show that Apple is looking to build a solar farm to power the facilities. AppleInsider reported earlier this month that renewable energy company Leaf Solar Power has been contracted to help with the project. Apple is also rumored to be interested in doubling the size of the 500,000 square-foot center.
When a retailer discounts its products, the intended result is an increase in sales, thereby making the promotion a productive investment.
But exactly how did the state or local community benefit from having Apple build their data center there? If Apple only created a few new jobs and if there were no other strings attached - for example helping to train/educate locals for high tech jobs - then what exactly did the community get in return for the $46 million tax breaks and loss of revenue from the 50% reduction in property taxes and 85% reduction in personal taxes that will only place increased strains on already struggling services such as education ?
The land sale.
The yearly taxes on said land.
The cost of electricity.
The construction jobs created for the previous and current/future data center.
All the costs associated with the people now living in that town to maintain the data center operations.
Exactly where is the town not gaining from Apple's presence and how exactly is it not like a retailer reducing the cost of an item to encourage a customer into their area. Hint: It's the exact same economic principle that prevents a competitor from getting the business.
Comments
What exactly did you expect? If you have a town full of idiots, you really won't have many jobs for them in a data center. This is the greatest issue right now in America, people expecting jobs, handouts or whatever and taking no responsibility to obtain said jobs through education and self development.
It really is too bad that corporal punishment is frowned upon in the US these days because I honest believe the only way to reach people at this level is through brutal readjustment. One can not expect to be handed employment, it is earned just like anything else in this country.
Maybe some brutal readjustment might work on you to make you a nicer person.
That just means that their expectations were out of line with reality. (Although -- those are some big tax breaks for only 50 jobs!)
The line that caught my attention -- the jobs 'are not for us' -- that's exactly right. And it's not Apple's problem. Furniture making is a fantastic skill -- but it doesn't lend itself at all to high tech jobs.
A high tech firm that needs lots of local workers would never be able to re-locate to Maiden, because the people don't have the skills to do the jobs. Better than complaining is to get their children educated enough so that in the future the children will be able to work those 50 jobs -- or some other high tech job.
If you want an example of how hard the Chinese are working at educating their kids -- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/op...16kristof.html
I wonder how much the area benefitted from all the construction jobs that it took to build the facility. Those workers had to buy food, gas, etc., etc. -- had to be a plus for the area.
It is that attitude which is why the West is in the mess it is. Liberal thinking that says a) Employ people, even if you do not need or cannot afford them. b) Loan people money for items or property they havn't a hope in hell of repaying.
I suppose I'm what you would consider a Liberal. I don't think either of those things, and neither does any Liberal I know.
Maybe those people didn't know much about what it takes to run a datacenter and thought that it would bring (or were told it would bring) more jobs to the area they'd be qualified for. And now they found out their not qualified and are disappointed by it.
Most people want to work and contribute. Stop buying into the right-wing fallacy that 50% of the planet wants to sit around and do nothing.
If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.
The locals should challenge their local officials to work with businesses to come up with a plan to rapidly retrain the workforce for the available jobs. Without a concerted effort in that direction, the problem will persist.
Why is it a disgrace? If the set up only requires 50 employees, then it only requires 50 employees! Why take on 150 people to have most of them sat around doing nothing? Or did I miss the news article that saw Apple become a registered charity?
I agree that it makes no sense for Apple to hire additional people they don't need. However, as it often happens, local politicians granted Apple ridiculous tax breaks in exchange for... what, exactly?
This is the same old story that has played itself out at both the local and national level. Politicians and their corporate sponsors push the idea that businesses must be given tax breaks in order to create more jobs, except there's absolutely no strings attached that they actually do so, so it's nothing but corporate welfare. When new jobs are actually created they're usually small in number, low paying and in no way tied to whatever tax breaks the corporation received.
Considering Apple is one of (if not the) largest and most profitable companies on the planet, you have to wonder why they need any tax breaks or loopholes when there's no payback in exchange. Now I'm a huge Apple fan and I don't think they're doing anything wrong - as a business they're trying to minimize costs and maximize profits - but this is a fine example of why this tired old story needs to be put to rest and corporate welfare needs to end immediately.
"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."
If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.
Of course. Having ratables is the important thing to any municipality. I wish they'd build one in MY town.
"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."
If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.
Yes, and never mind the fact that those taxes are needed to pay for education, among other things, directly impacting the reason why there aren't more local people qualified to apply for Apple's higher paying jobs.
I agree that it makes no sense for Apple to hire additional people they don't need. However, as it often happens, local politicians granted Apple ridiculous tax breaks in exchange for... what, exactly?
This is the same old story that has played itself out at both the local and national level. Politicians and their corporate sponsors push the idea that businesses must be given tax breaks in order to create more jobs, except there's absolutely no strings attached that they actually do so, so it's nothing but corporate welfare. When new jobs are actually created they're usually small in number, low paying and in no way tied to whatever tax breaks the corporation received.
Considering Apple is one of (if not the) largest and most profitable companies on the planet, you have to wonder why they need any tax breaks or loopholes when there's no payback in exchange. Now I'm a huge Apple fan and I don't think they're doing anything wrong - as a business they're trying to minimize costs and maximize profits - but this is a fine example of why this tired old story needs to be put to rest and corporate welfare needs to end immediately.
Of course they don't need the tax break in the sense that they need a financial handout, but did they need to build in this town, in this county, in this state? I don't think any one of those three locations were a requirement so Apple held the cards. Does a retailer need to give a discount on Black Friday? Of course not, but they want to benefit from one of the busiest shopping days of the year so they lower prices to entice buyers. Tax breaks are no different to get the business that Apple would otherwise take elsewhere. This type of economics is not only common, but natural.
$1.7 million for an acre? Wow- that's Hawaii pricing (although that's a happy meal for apple).
North Carolina are the dumbest. $4.6 mil a year for 10 years for 50 jobs? Maybe (at most) 300? Wow...
How many jobs were there after Apple moved in?
Of course they don't need the tax break in the sense that have no money, but did they need to build in this town, in this county, in this state? I don't think any one of those three locations were a requirement so Apple held the cards. Does a retailer need to give a discount on Black Friday? Of course not, but they want to benefit from one of the busiest shopping days of the year so they lower prices to entice buyers. Tax breaks are no different to get the business that Apple would otherwise take elsewhere. This type of economics is not only common, but natural.
When a retailer discounts its products, the intended result is an increase in sales, thereby making the promotion a productive investment.
But exactly how did the state or local community benefit from having Apple build their data center there? If Apple only created a few new jobs and if there were no other strings attached - for example helping to train/educate locals for high tech jobs - then what exactly did the community get in return for the $46 million tax breaks and loss of revenue from the 50% reduction in property taxes and 85% reduction in personal taxes that will only place increased strains on already struggling services such as education ?
I agree, 50 is better than zero. Did they think iCloud would be powered by elves??
Only if you don't have a supply of Oompa-Loompas.
How many jobs were there when Donnie and Kathy Fulbright lived on that land?
How many jobs were there after Apple moved in?
Unless those 50 new jobs went to locals and paid about $1M each, I don't see how they offset the $46 million in tax breaks, not to mention the huge cuts in personal and property taxes, that will impact the residents of the town and state.
3400 people in the town.
A potiential for 25-250 jobs.
Unemployment rate at 13%
Worst case scenario 25 jobs brings unemployment down .7%
50 jobs brings it down 1.5%
250 jobs brings it down 7.4%
Plus tax money to the town.
I can see why some of these people think that data jobs from Apple isn't for them and why their unemployment rate is so high. Basic math and logic must be hard to come by in this small town...
True- but unemployment is 15-65 yr olds. (sometimes 16-65 depending on state). So those numbers will increase. But I still agree with you that they're overreacting.
?tax breaks of up to $46 million over the next 10 years?
I'm sure the nature of the jobs at the tech center disappointed locals. But how many man-years of construction employment did it provide the city? The county? The state? After the tax cut, is apple paying NO local or state taxes, or just a reduced amount? How much? How much will it pay annually starting ten years from now?
It's not an article--at least as reported here--that would pass many newspaper editors' desks without a demand for more.
(OT: It's like that Romney tv ad last week that criticized Obama for what he said--when Obama was really quoting a republican candidate to make a critical point. Worst part is, romney's camp, caught on the deceit, stood behind it. No matter who you're for, that's just bs).
A new report claims that local residents view Apple's massive data center in Maiden, N.C. has been a "disappointing development" because it has brought just 50 full-time jobs to the area, which is struggling with double-digit unemployment rates.
The Washington Post spoke to several residents from the small town of 3,400 about Apple's $1 billion project.
?Apple really doesn?t mean a thing to this town,? said Tony Parker, a furniture maker in the town.
Kelly McRee, Parker's son-in-law, viewed the benefits of the company coming to town as largely symbolic. ?Apple was the apple of everybody?s eye, but that?s about it. It was something for everyone to ooh and aah over.?
But, Maiden Town Manager William "Todd" Herms believes Apple does have a positive impact on residents' lives. ?I think the average citizen sees it affecting life,? he said. ?They are a great corporate neighbor.?
At the least, two residents have benefitted significantly from Apple's venture. Donnie and Kathy Fulbright received $1.7 million from the company for their one-acre property. Apple had to make several offers for their land and eventually asked them to set their own price.
As for others, the data center hasn't been a help to them. When asked how tough things were in Maiden, Samantha Saunders, the owner of a local hardware store, said, ?The extreme of tough.?
An unemployed Maiden resident voiced doubt to the Post that jobs at the data center are actually accessible to locals. ?People from around here don?t get those jobs,? he said. ?Really, furniture is the only thing I know. Those data jobs are not for us.?
The North Carolina legislature amended its corporate income tax law in order to offer Apple tax breaks of up to $46 million over the next 10 years to build its data center in the state. According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent. In exchange, Apple has created 50 full-time jobs and is also expected to create 250 "indirect contracting jobs."
The state's unemployment rate of 10.5 percent currently stands as one of the highest in the U.S. The area around Maiden has an even higher jobless rate of 13 percent.
Apple announced Maiden as the location for the data center project, codenamed "Project Dolphin," in 2009. According to the company, the server farm, which opened up earlier this year, supports its iTunes, MobileMe and iCloud services.
The Cupertino, Calif., company does not appear to be finished with developments on the data center. Recently-revealed permits show that Apple is looking to build a solar farm to power the facilities. AppleInsider reported earlier this month that renewable energy company Leaf Solar Power has been contracted to help with the project. Apple is also rumored to be interested in doubling the size of the 500,000 square-foot center.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
When a retailer discounts its products, the intended result is an increase in sales, thereby making the promotion a productive investment.
But exactly how did the state or local community benefit from having Apple build their data center there? If Apple only created a few new jobs and if there were no other strings attached - for example helping to train/educate locals for high tech jobs - then what exactly did the community get in return for the $46 million tax breaks and loss of revenue from the 50% reduction in property taxes and 85% reduction in personal taxes that will only place increased strains on already struggling services such as education ?
The land sale.
The yearly taxes on said land.
The cost of electricity.
The construction jobs created for the previous and current/future data center.
All the costs associated with the people now living in that town to maintain the data center operations.
Exactly where is the town not gaining from Apple's presence and how exactly is it not like a retailer reducing the cost of an item to encourage a customer into their area. Hint: It's the exact same economic principle that prevents a competitor from getting the business.