Cormac McCarthy told me, "Caint figure why a fruit company would put its friend Siri in such a big box. Don't make no sense talkin bout a cloud in there too. Gotta think bout this one. With [Sarah Jessica Parker]"
In fact they are so different I'm not sure where you get some of the ideas expressed below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdmendez
1. Liberal thinking doesn't suggest that companies should employ people that don't deserve the job.
Yet that is exactly what people suggest in this thread! This is what is so appalling about the left, the occupy movement any every other whining liberal, they expect that
People should be GIVEN jobs qualified or not, willing to work or not.
Quote:
Liberal thinking leads people to conclude that it is necessary to consider new, more effective ideas in creating a stable society.
More wishful thinking. Liberalism leads to unstable societies with defective leaderships and a rise in deviancy. Why do you think humanity came up with laws in the first place?
Quote:
Liberal thinking has nothing to do with charity for all, but it has everything to do with caring for the weak and poor that are that way because of forces that they don't have any control over .
More BS! Liberalism is about handing out money to the lazy and stupid. It is all about pulling society down to a base, instinctive level instead of pulling people up. In fact liberalism requires the shiftless to have any sort of reason for being.
As for people caught up in circumstances beyond their control that can happen to anyone. That is why we have charities, public service organizations and volunteer efforts. Many of these organizations are staffed by conservatives. Why because they see it as an act of giving. On the flip side liberal organizations are often built around exploitation of others for self promotion.
Quote:
For example, liberal thinking would suggest that Apple should build a factory here to support the poor blue collar workers that have no jobs due to forces outside of their control (govt. powers that send jobs overseas). That is liberal thinking.
Nope that again is stupidity. First it assumes that people must fit into certain niches. That is they must be either a blue collar worker, service worker or manger of some sort. It is a terrible thing to be squished into a box due to outside forces. A conservative would realize that his most important task is to work and not be caught up in the specifics of the job. The liberal desire to pigeon hole everybody is perplexing. Frankly I've seen many so called blue collar workers working full time while running a business or two on the side.
This whole idea that we must support blue collar workers is very demeaning, they can support themselves very well thank you.
Quote:
See you learn something everyday.
Some might and then some see the world through rose colored glasses.
Quote:
2. It's sad that conservatives - and I consider mysel one - have no idea what they talk about when they talk about "liberals". Educate yourself and stop making us look so bad.
Please read what you have posted above. You basically insult blue collar workers in a most unpleasant way. Then you go on and on about what liberalism is all about, but unfortunately nothing you say reflects reality.
By the way I don't consider myself to be either a liberal nor a conservative. However that being said the liberal movement in America has a lot of ethical problems. More so the liberal cause is too closely aligned with societies failures these days. It really isn't about making life better for everyone it is about making life uncomfortable for everyone.
I've seen a lot of responses here that disappoint me in the forum's general understanding of business.
Before i get to that, did anyone read the AI link to the original story? Those who did, would have seen this, which the AI writer did not include in his article:
"Town Manager William “Todd” Herms said Apple’s presence boosts the town’s tax base and helps it lower overall taxes, not to mention providing an influx of construction jobs. (emphasis mine)
What many here have overlooked, or don't understand, is the difference between taxes produced on farmland and improved land. Taxes on improved property are multiples higher than before. An example of the principle, without using real numbers: If the tax on a piece of land is $100/acre, and it's developed into a big business site, the tax on the improved or developed property might increase to $1,000/acre. If the developer gets a 50% tax break, he'd end up paying $500/acre, compared to the earlier $100/per. In ten years, when the tax breaks expire, tax yield will jump again.
This isn't--or shouldn't be--a difficult concept: MY property taxes increased when I added a porch to my home. They increased again when I rebuilt my daughters' two bedrooms. Imagine if i'd originally owned only a field, and built a house on it. The taxes are determined after an appraisal of the property value. I'm reasonably confident that value skyrocketed after apple built its tremendously costly data center on farmland.
Oh: the full article (this also was not quoted by AI) cited three workers at a google data center in the furniture-manufacturing region, two of whom used to work in that business and were retrained for the tech jobs.
It's always appropriate to question whether tax breaks benefit the city/county/state. I'm objecting only to the preponderance of comments here that leap to a conclusion, often citing misunderstood concepts for their reasoning.
- Vast increase in their property values ($1.7 M for an acre? Even the people who didn't sell their land to Apple at extortionate prices benefits from more job opportunities."
What makes you think that Apple building this data center staffed by a massive team of 50 will necessarily act as a magnet for other businesses that would in turn pay $1.7M an acre to other land owners in the area? How do these short term land sales benefit the community and the state over the long term?
It was a sale of personally owned land. The state shouldn't benefit from it anymore than any other land sale.
Quote:
"50 direct jobs and up to 250 indirect jobs in a community that size is important. This is especially true in an area with such high unemployment rates."
The 50 direct jobs probably didn't go to any locals and where are these 250 "indirect jobs" defined? How will a data center, that practically runs itself with just 50 technically trained employees, benefit local unemployment rates when locals are neither qualified for, being hired for, nor trained for these jobs?
Well if I wanted to be negative I could say that the data meter should givee the local moonshine and prostitution industries a boost! But I won't say that. Instead I will sit back and wonder if you have a clue.
Quote:
"Job quality. In that area of NC, there aren't a lot of great jobs. These will be some of the best jobs around - and will give the local kids something to work toward. "
The place staffs 50. It's a data center. How does this equate to "a lot of great jobs" in the future? How will local kids work towards these nonexistent future jobs when their schools are strapped for cash as a result of the tax cuts?
A small business might employ two. As to the fifty well if you are one of the fifty then yeah it is a great job.
Quote:
"Taxes. While people focus on the tax breaks, they miss the fact that Apple will still be paying 50% of the property tax and 15% of the personal taxes for 10 years "
As opposed to the 100% of property taxes that would be paid by the former owners?
Thus is where you really get off track. They are no longer zoned as unimproved or farm land. You do realize that even though Apple may have gotten a tax break they are paying more in the way of taxes than if the land had stayed the way it was. I suspect the local town is doing very well with this deal.
I've seen a lot of responses here that disappoint me in the forum's general understanding of business.
Before i get to that, did anyone read the AI link to the original story? Those who did, would have seen this, which the AI writer did not include in his article:
"Town Manager William ?Todd? Herms said Apple?s presence boosts the town?s tax base and helps it lower overall taxes, not to mention providing an influx of construction jobs. (emphasis mine)
What many here have overlooked, or don't understand, is the difference between taxes produced on farmland and improved land. Taxes on improved property are multiples higher than before. An example of the principle, without using real numbers: If the tax on a piece of land is $100/acre, and it's developed into a big business site, the tax on the improved or developed property might increase to $1,000/acre. If the developer gets a 50% tax break, he'd end up paying $500/acre, compared to the earlier $100/per. In ten years, when the tax breaks expire, tax yield will jump again.
This isn't--or shouldn't be--a difficult concept: MY property taxes increased when I added a porch to my home. They increased again when I rebuilt my daughters' two bedrooms. Imagine if i'd originally owned only a field, and built a house on it. The taxes are determined after an appraisal of the property value. I'm reasonably confident that value skyrocketed after apple built its tremendously costly data center on farmland.
Oh: the full article (this also was not quoted by AI) cited three workers at a google data center in the furniture-manufacturing region, two of whom used to work in that business and were retrained for the tech jobs.
It's always appropriate to question whether tax breaks benefit the city/county/state. I'm objecting only to the preponderance of comments here that leap to a conclusion, often citing misunderstood concepts for their reasoning.
That's AI for you.
But I question WHY does it increase taxes exactly? I always knew that it does, but it's so stupid. Especially if the value of the area hasn't increase. Me confused.
It's unfortunate that Apple and others can not build factories to assemble their products in NC or anywhere else in the states because it is just not economical. Steve Jobs personally told the president that the fact that the US can not build factories is an issue, the US government needs to take this very seriously. A factory in NC would surely put a lot of local people to work but instead all the jobs are going to China and Brazil.
Not economical. Now I suppose the commenter would have no problem working in the kind of conditions China/Apple imposes on the Chinese.
"The factory workers, many who work making keyboards for Apple, were said to be working 100 to 120 hours of overtime a month, experiencing a high rate of workplace injuries, suffering mass layoffs of older workers, and frequently being verbally abused by managers."
"According to an official statement by Apple on the labor conditions at its global suppliers, there is much room for improvement. Earlier this year, 137 workers at a factory in Suzhou were found seriously injured by a toxic chemical used in making screens for iPhones."
I too like reasonably priced Apple products, but I have moral problem with expecting and demanding others live and work under conditions that I would find intolerable. Abraham Lincoln expressed something like "As I would not be a slave, I would not be a slaveholder". Too many Americans don't subscribe to that simple ethic.
...as it often happens, local politicians granted Apple ridiculous tax breaks in exchange for... what, exactly?
Can you present ANY documentation for the tax break having been ridiculous? What the heck are you basing your vehement opinions on? You're the kinda guy who roils the coffee break room without an iota of information or sense. Please, try to restore some faith in american education!
Not economical. Now I suppose the commenter would have no problem working in the kind of conditions China/Apple imposes on the Chinese.
"The factory workers, many who work making keyboards for Apple, were said to be working 100 to 120 hours of overtime a month, experiencing a high rate of workplace injuries, suffering mass layoffs of older workers, and frequently being verbally abused by managers."
"According to an official statement by Apple on the labor conditions at its global suppliers, there is much room for improvement. Earlier this year, 137 workers at a factory in Suzhou were found seriously injured by a toxic chemical used in making screens for iPhones."
I too like reasonably priced Apple products, but I have moral problem with expecting and demanding others live and work under conditions that I would find intolerable. Abraham Lincoln expressed something like "As I would not be a slave, I would not be a slaveholder". Too many Americans don't subscribe to that simple ethic.
But I know far too many people who question "WOULD YOU WANT TO PAY OVER $200 FOR A PAIR OF NIKE SHOES?". It's usually my professors and business people (and usually Republican-I'm not taking a jab..just stating what I observed).
Well, I pay a lot of money for high quality services and will do so even more if I got payed more. I don't think a product should exist if it would have delplorable conditions. But, this issue is way beyond me and I DON'T KNOW what other options there are.
How is paying your fair share a burden? That is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. One of the biggest problems this country has right now is giving a free ride to people that don't want to work or are too stupid to be employable at a competitive rate. It is a sicken example of the nanny state mentality. There is no reason to give such examples of humanity a free ride at the expense of people that get up every morning and go to work.
Well that I agree with!
This however is bull crap and I'm totally against it. If anything the lazy and stupid should be taxed at a higher rate. I mean this seriously, if you are a drag on the economy and a burden to other tax payers you need to suffer.
This also makes no sense at all. Besides history has shown that taxing high income earners excessively is a huge drag on the economy.
See the above it is a stupid concept.
Again totally stupid, intact I'd eliminate all capital gain taxes. The problem is they do more harm than good and very negatively impact the lower income workers.
Yeah that is a huge problem and must be addressed. Everyone should be paying their fair share, that can only be accomplished with a flat rate tax. We need to give theses idiots a little incentive to work harder.
You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.
?Really, furniture is the only thing I know. Those data jobs are not for us.?
And so what should Apple do, make furniture at the data center?
You are clueless. Go back to being brainwashed. Enjoy using your iPhone at that OWS rally.
?Really, furniture is the only thing I know. Those data jobs are not for us.?
And so what should Apple do, make furniture at the data center?
You are clueless. Go back to being brainwashed. Enjoy using your iPhone at that OWS rally.
I think he means in a general sense. Perhaps media is blowing it out of porportion. If I'm 20 and a new liquor bar opens up....should I complain because I'm not 21 to work there? Or if Wal Mart opens a new store but I have an engineering degree? I wonder these things in my dark room.
But I question WHY does it increase taxes exactly? I always knew that it does, but it's so stupid. Especially if the value of the area hasn't increase. Me confused.
You'd be right if the value of the land hadn't increased. But it did, by about 1000x. Thats why the people who oppose tax breaks on the grounds that they hurt the local economy are wrong. They simply don't have the numbers correct.
But I question WHY does it increase taxes exactly? I always knew that it does, but it's so stupid. Especially if the value of the area hasn't increase. Me confused.
Let's see if we can figure this out. Property is taxed at its value. Apple's site is something like 100 acres which used to be farm and forest. What do you think the farm and forest land was worth? Maybe a few thousand dollars an acre. It is now worth $1 B. So whatever the tax rate is, the taxes will be many, many times greater now than they were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Dude... The fair tax is an actual thing. Google it. It isn't "my fair tax" or "what I think a fair tax is...". There is one "fair tax". And FYI- it does have exemptions for income and takes it one better- they get money at the end of year.
Again- read it and tell me it's not the best way. Hardly anyone disagrees that looks at it- rich, poor, democrat, or republican.
Edited to say: drug dealers, prostitutes, and illegals also dont like it.
Hint: You know you've gone off the deep end when you say that EVERYONE agrees with your proposal. The fact is that the "fair tax" is controversial and is NOT universally accepted. If it were, it would have been enacted.
"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."
If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.
I don't think that's what they meant. I think they discounted Apple's property taxes by 50%. I don't know what the discount on personal taxes means.
I'm of mixed mind here. For one thing, we don't know what Apple promised the town. If we assume that Apple was honest and told them there would only be 50 permanent jobs then the town government was simply extremely naive. But as someone else pointed out, those 50 jobs still reduced unemployment by 1.7%. (And even if those jobs went to new workers, presumably they live in the town or nearby, thereby adding to the town's economy.)
If those 50 people make $40,000 per year each, that's adding $2 million to the town's economy and that doesn't include any supplies that Apple buys locally. It's said that actual economic impact on spending is 6x. That means it's actually adding $12 million to the local economy. For a town of that size, that is certainly an impact. And that doesn't include the one-time construction costs, at least some of which was probably local companies. If 25 of those people bought houses and another 25 rented a home or apartment, that's certainly got to have major positive economic impact on the town.
On the other hand, I'm sick of governments giving tax breaks to very profitable large corporations in return for benefits that never happen. If Apple wants to build a facility, they should built the facility based on the appropriateness of the locale for their needs. They shouldn't be asking for or receiving tax breaks (and I'm a stockholder). When companies receive tax breaks that aren't returned in the way of new jobs (and the taxes collected from those jobs), that lost revenue turns into increased local property taxes or ever-increasing deficits that reduce local services.
As far as the North Carolina furniture industry is concerned, they need to get their act together. I actually think there is a market for well designed and constructed American-made furniture. Not everyone is satisfied with IKEA or the junk that major American and European companies have made in China. My previous American-made couch (albeit from a company that went out business) lasted 20 years. My recent "Italian" Chinese-made furniture lasted only two years before collapsing (which is astonishing because a few feet of cheap 2x4s would have made the furniture indestructible) and the web is full of stories from unhappy consumers who have purchased from major retailers about poor construction and leather peeling away after a short time. But the NC furniture industry needs to learn how to design for today and how to market itself. Room & Board sells a lot of American-made furniture, although mostly from Vermont. There's no reason why the NC furniture makers couldn't be making similar furniture for sale to other retailers/chains. In fact, I've actually been a little surprised that in an economy where corporations are not hiring, that we haven't seen more of a return to craft in the U.S.
Let's see if we can figure this out. Property is taxed at its value. Apple's site is something like 100 acres which used to be farm and forest. What do you think the farm and forest land was worth? Maybe a few thousand dollars an acre. It is now worth $1 B. So whatever the tax rate is, the taxes will be many, many times greater now than they were.
Hint: You know you've gone off the deep end when you say that EVERYONE agrees with your proposal. The fact is that the "fair tax" is controversial and is NOT universally accepted. If it were, it would have been enacted.
You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.
Your comment makes no sense.
So was Apple supposed to hire unskilled workers? Did they male a promise to NC that's gone unfulfilled?
The problem these days is that Americans don't want o learn modern usage skills; if there was a wealth of IT expertise in Malden, NC, these people would get hired. A modern data center only needs so many maintenance crew.
Liberal thinking leads people to conclude that it is necessary to consider new, more effective ideas in creating a stable society.
This was the quote you could have stopped on. It isn't true. Liberalism has one idea, and one idea only: Take more money from those who earn it and spend it on whatever we deem to be the need.
What they profess to be "new" or "progressive" thinking, isn't actually a NEW idea, and it never is. It is always, and has always been the same idea they tried before, except this time, they'll spend more money making it fail. No liberal or progressive has suggested an actual new idea in 40 years.
Education a problem? TAX AND SPEND MORE. Health Care? TAX AND SPEND MORE. Pick an issue, the liberal solution is always the same. Take more of your money, and spend it.
So far as I can see, the only actual NEW ideas I have heard in the last 40 years have come from conservatives and libertarians: Flat Tax, Fair Tax, etc...but every time a new idea is voiced, it is the liberals who scream loudest why it won't work, even though these ideas have NEVER been tried, and would likely succeed.
Comments
Cormac McCarthy told me, "Caint figure why a fruit company would put its friend Siri in such a big box. Don't make no sense talkin bout a cloud in there too. Gotta think bout this one. With [Sarah Jessica Parker]"
Fixed for ya!
1. Liberal thinking doesn't suggest that companies should employ people that don't deserve the job.
Yet that is exactly what people suggest in this thread! This is what is so appalling about the left, the occupy movement any every other whining liberal, they expect that
People should be GIVEN jobs qualified or not, willing to work or not.
Liberal thinking leads people to conclude that it is necessary to consider new, more effective ideas in creating a stable society.
More wishful thinking. Liberalism leads to unstable societies with defective leaderships and a rise in deviancy. Why do you think humanity came up with laws in the first place?
Liberal thinking has nothing to do with charity for all, but it has everything to do with caring for the weak and poor that are that way because of forces that they don't have any control over .
More BS! Liberalism is about handing out money to the lazy and stupid. It is all about pulling society down to a base, instinctive level instead of pulling people up. In fact liberalism requires the shiftless to have any sort of reason for being.
As for people caught up in circumstances beyond their control that can happen to anyone. That is why we have charities, public service organizations and volunteer efforts. Many of these organizations are staffed by conservatives. Why because they see it as an act of giving. On the flip side liberal organizations are often built around exploitation of others for self promotion.
For example, liberal thinking would suggest that Apple should build a factory here to support the poor blue collar workers that have no jobs due to forces outside of their control (govt. powers that send jobs overseas). That is liberal thinking.
Nope that again is stupidity. First it assumes that people must fit into certain niches. That is they must be either a blue collar worker, service worker or manger of some sort. It is a terrible thing to be squished into a box due to outside forces. A conservative would realize that his most important task is to work and not be caught up in the specifics of the job. The liberal desire to pigeon hole everybody is perplexing. Frankly I've seen many so called blue collar workers working full time while running a business or two on the side.
This whole idea that we must support blue collar workers is very demeaning, they can support themselves very well thank you.
See you learn something everyday.
Some might and then some see the world through rose colored glasses.
2. It's sad that conservatives - and I consider mysel one - have no idea what they talk about when they talk about "liberals". Educate yourself and stop making us look so bad.
Please read what you have posted above. You basically insult blue collar workers in a most unpleasant way. Then you go on and on about what liberalism is all about, but unfortunately nothing you say reflects reality.
By the way I don't consider myself to be either a liberal nor a conservative. However that being said the liberal movement in America has a lot of ethical problems. More so the liberal cause is too closely aligned with societies failures these days. It really isn't about making life better for everyone it is about making life uncomfortable for everyone.
Lamborhghini Gallardo or Bugatti Veyron?
Malibu- but it's free (to me, not the company).
Before i get to that, did anyone read the AI link to the original story? Those who did, would have seen this, which the AI writer did not include in his article:
"Town Manager William “Todd” Herms said Apple’s presence boosts the town’s tax base and helps it lower overall taxes, not to mention providing an influx of construction jobs. (emphasis mine)
What many here have overlooked, or don't understand, is the difference between taxes produced on farmland and improved land. Taxes on improved property are multiples higher than before. An example of the principle, without using real numbers: If the tax on a piece of land is $100/acre, and it's developed into a big business site, the tax on the improved or developed property might increase to $1,000/acre. If the developer gets a 50% tax break, he'd end up paying $500/acre, compared to the earlier $100/per. In ten years, when the tax breaks expire, tax yield will jump again.
This isn't--or shouldn't be--a difficult concept: MY property taxes increased when I added a porch to my home. They increased again when I rebuilt my daughters' two bedrooms. Imagine if i'd originally owned only a field, and built a house on it. The taxes are determined after an appraisal of the property value. I'm reasonably confident that value skyrocketed after apple built its tremendously costly data center on farmland.
Oh: the full article (this also was not quoted by AI) cited three workers at a google data center in the furniture-manufacturing region, two of whom used to work in that business and were retrained for the tech jobs.
It's always appropriate to question whether tax breaks benefit the city/county/state. I'm objecting only to the preponderance of comments here that leap to a conclusion, often citing misunderstood concepts for their reasoning.
jragosta wrote:
"OK, let's look at what the consumers receive:
- Vast increase in their property values ($1.7 M for an acre? Even the people who didn't sell their land to Apple at extortionate prices benefits from more job opportunities."
What makes you think that Apple building this data center staffed by a massive team of 50 will necessarily act as a magnet for other businesses that would in turn pay $1.7M an acre to other land owners in the area? How do these short term land sales benefit the community and the state over the long term?
It was a sale of personally owned land. The state shouldn't benefit from it anymore than any other land sale.
"50 direct jobs and up to 250 indirect jobs in a community that size is important. This is especially true in an area with such high unemployment rates."
The 50 direct jobs probably didn't go to any locals and where are these 250 "indirect jobs" defined? How will a data center, that practically runs itself with just 50 technically trained employees, benefit local unemployment rates when locals are neither qualified for, being hired for, nor trained for these jobs?
Well if I wanted to be negative I could say that the data meter should givee the local moonshine and prostitution industries a boost! But I won't say that. Instead I will sit back and wonder if you have a clue.
"Job quality. In that area of NC, there aren't a lot of great jobs. These will be some of the best jobs around - and will give the local kids something to work toward. "
The place staffs 50. It's a data center. How does this equate to "a lot of great jobs" in the future? How will local kids work towards these nonexistent future jobs when their schools are strapped for cash as a result of the tax cuts?
A small business might employ two. As to the fifty well if you are one of the fifty then yeah it is a great job.
"Taxes. While people focus on the tax breaks, they miss the fact that Apple will still be paying 50% of the property tax and 15% of the personal taxes for 10 years "
As opposed to the 100% of property taxes that would be paid by the former owners?
Thus is where you really get off track. They are no longer zoned as unimproved or farm land. You do realize that even though Apple may have gotten a tax break they are paying more in the way of taxes than if the land had stayed the way it was. I suspect the local town is doing very well with this deal.
I've seen a lot of responses here that disappoint me in the forum's general understanding of business.
Before i get to that, did anyone read the AI link to the original story? Those who did, would have seen this, which the AI writer did not include in his article:
"Town Manager William ?Todd? Herms said Apple?s presence boosts the town?s tax base and helps it lower overall taxes, not to mention providing an influx of construction jobs. (emphasis mine)
What many here have overlooked, or don't understand, is the difference between taxes produced on farmland and improved land. Taxes on improved property are multiples higher than before. An example of the principle, without using real numbers: If the tax on a piece of land is $100/acre, and it's developed into a big business site, the tax on the improved or developed property might increase to $1,000/acre. If the developer gets a 50% tax break, he'd end up paying $500/acre, compared to the earlier $100/per. In ten years, when the tax breaks expire, tax yield will jump again.
This isn't--or shouldn't be--a difficult concept: MY property taxes increased when I added a porch to my home. They increased again when I rebuilt my daughters' two bedrooms. Imagine if i'd originally owned only a field, and built a house on it. The taxes are determined after an appraisal of the property value. I'm reasonably confident that value skyrocketed after apple built its tremendously costly data center on farmland.
Oh: the full article (this also was not quoted by AI) cited three workers at a google data center in the furniture-manufacturing region, two of whom used to work in that business and were retrained for the tech jobs.
It's always appropriate to question whether tax breaks benefit the city/county/state. I'm objecting only to the preponderance of comments here that leap to a conclusion, often citing misunderstood concepts for their reasoning.
That's AI for you.
But I question WHY does it increase taxes exactly? I always knew that it does, but it's so stupid. Especially if the value of the area hasn't increase. Me confused.
It's unfortunate that Apple and others can not build factories to assemble their products in NC or anywhere else in the states because it is just not economical. Steve Jobs personally told the president that the fact that the US can not build factories is an issue, the US government needs to take this very seriously. A factory in NC would surely put a lot of local people to work but instead all the jobs are going to China and Brazil.
Not economical. Now I suppose the commenter would have no problem working in the kind of conditions China/Apple imposes on the Chinese.
"The factory workers, many who work making keyboards for Apple, were said to be working 100 to 120 hours of overtime a month, experiencing a high rate of workplace injuries, suffering mass layoffs of older workers, and frequently being verbally abused by managers."
"According to an official statement by Apple on the labor conditions at its global suppliers, there is much room for improvement. Earlier this year, 137 workers at a factory in Suzhou were found seriously injured by a toxic chemical used in making screens for iPhones."
I too like reasonably priced Apple products, but I have moral problem with expecting and demanding others live and work under conditions that I would find intolerable. Abraham Lincoln expressed something like "As I would not be a slave, I would not be a slaveholder". Too many Americans don't subscribe to that simple ethic.
...as it often happens, local politicians granted Apple ridiculous tax breaks in exchange for... what, exactly?
Can you present ANY documentation for the tax break having been ridiculous? What the heck are you basing your vehement opinions on? You're the kinda guy who roils the coffee break room without an iota of information or sense. Please, try to restore some faith in american education!
Not economical. Now I suppose the commenter would have no problem working in the kind of conditions China/Apple imposes on the Chinese.
"The factory workers, many who work making keyboards for Apple, were said to be working 100 to 120 hours of overtime a month, experiencing a high rate of workplace injuries, suffering mass layoffs of older workers, and frequently being verbally abused by managers."
"According to an official statement by Apple on the labor conditions at its global suppliers, there is much room for improvement. Earlier this year, 137 workers at a factory in Suzhou were found seriously injured by a toxic chemical used in making screens for iPhones."
I too like reasonably priced Apple products, but I have moral problem with expecting and demanding others live and work under conditions that I would find intolerable. Abraham Lincoln expressed something like "As I would not be a slave, I would not be a slaveholder". Too many Americans don't subscribe to that simple ethic.
But I know far too many people who question "WOULD YOU WANT TO PAY OVER $200 FOR A PAIR OF NIKE SHOES?". It's usually my professors and business people (and usually Republican-I'm not taking a jab..just stating what I observed).
Well, I pay a lot of money for high quality services and will do so even more if I got payed more. I don't think a product should exist if it would have delplorable conditions. But, this issue is way beyond me and I DON'T KNOW what other options there are.
How is paying your fair share a burden? That is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. One of the biggest problems this country has right now is giving a free ride to people that don't want to work or are too stupid to be employable at a competitive rate. It is a sicken example of the nanny state mentality. There is no reason to give such examples of humanity a free ride at the expense of people that get up every morning and go to work.
Well that I agree with!
This however is bull crap and I'm totally against it. If anything the lazy and stupid should be taxed at a higher rate. I mean this seriously, if you are a drag on the economy and a burden to other tax payers you need to suffer.
This also makes no sense at all. Besides history has shown that taxing high income earners excessively is a huge drag on the economy.
See the above it is a stupid concept.
Again totally stupid, intact I'd eliminate all capital gain taxes. The problem is they do more harm than good and very negatively impact the lower income workers.
Yeah that is a huge problem and must be addressed. Everyone should be paying their fair share, that can only be accomplished with a flat rate tax. We need to give theses idiots a little incentive to work harder.
Must...block...stupid!
You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.
?Really, furniture is the only thing I know. Those data jobs are not for us.?
And so what should Apple do, make furniture at the data center?
You are clueless. Go back to being brainwashed. Enjoy using your iPhone at that OWS rally.
?Really, furniture is the only thing I know. Those data jobs are not for us.?
And so what should Apple do, make furniture at the data center?
You are clueless. Go back to being brainwashed. Enjoy using your iPhone at that OWS rally.
I think he means in a general sense. Perhaps media is blowing it out of porportion. If I'm 20 and a new liquor bar opens up....should I complain because I'm not 21 to work there? Or if Wal Mart opens a new store but I have an engineering degree? I wonder these things in my dark room.
But I question WHY does it increase taxes exactly? I always knew that it does, but it's so stupid. Especially if the value of the area hasn't increase. Me confused.
You'd be right if the value of the land hadn't increased. But it did, by about 1000x. Thats why the people who oppose tax breaks on the grounds that they hurt the local economy are wrong. They simply don't have the numbers correct.
That's AI for you.
But I question WHY does it increase taxes exactly? I always knew that it does, but it's so stupid. Especially if the value of the area hasn't increase. Me confused.
Let's see if we can figure this out. Property is taxed at its value. Apple's site is something like 100 acres which used to be farm and forest. What do you think the farm and forest land was worth? Maybe a few thousand dollars an acre. It is now worth $1 B. So whatever the tax rate is, the taxes will be many, many times greater now than they were.
Dude... The fair tax is an actual thing. Google it. It isn't "my fair tax" or "what I think a fair tax is...". There is one "fair tax". And FYI- it does have exemptions for income and takes it one better- they get money at the end of year.
Again- read it and tell me it's not the best way. Hardly anyone disagrees that looks at it- rich, poor, democrat, or republican.
Edited to say: drug dealers, prostitutes, and illegals also dont like it.
Hint: You know you've gone off the deep end when you say that EVERYONE agrees with your proposal. The fact is that the "fair tax" is controversial and is NOT universally accepted. If it were, it would have been enacted.
"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."
If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.
I don't think that's what they meant. I think they discounted Apple's property taxes by 50%. I don't know what the discount on personal taxes means.
I'm of mixed mind here. For one thing, we don't know what Apple promised the town. If we assume that Apple was honest and told them there would only be 50 permanent jobs then the town government was simply extremely naive. But as someone else pointed out, those 50 jobs still reduced unemployment by 1.7%. (And even if those jobs went to new workers, presumably they live in the town or nearby, thereby adding to the town's economy.)
If those 50 people make $40,000 per year each, that's adding $2 million to the town's economy and that doesn't include any supplies that Apple buys locally. It's said that actual economic impact on spending is 6x. That means it's actually adding $12 million to the local economy. For a town of that size, that is certainly an impact. And that doesn't include the one-time construction costs, at least some of which was probably local companies. If 25 of those people bought houses and another 25 rented a home or apartment, that's certainly got to have major positive economic impact on the town.
On the other hand, I'm sick of governments giving tax breaks to very profitable large corporations in return for benefits that never happen. If Apple wants to build a facility, they should built the facility based on the appropriateness of the locale for their needs. They shouldn't be asking for or receiving tax breaks (and I'm a stockholder). When companies receive tax breaks that aren't returned in the way of new jobs (and the taxes collected from those jobs), that lost revenue turns into increased local property taxes or ever-increasing deficits that reduce local services.
As far as the North Carolina furniture industry is concerned, they need to get their act together. I actually think there is a market for well designed and constructed American-made furniture. Not everyone is satisfied with IKEA or the junk that major American and European companies have made in China. My previous American-made couch (albeit from a company that went out business) lasted 20 years. My recent "Italian" Chinese-made furniture lasted only two years before collapsing (which is astonishing because a few feet of cheap 2x4s would have made the furniture indestructible) and the web is full of stories from unhappy consumers who have purchased from major retailers about poor construction and leather peeling away after a short time. But the NC furniture industry needs to learn how to design for today and how to market itself. Room & Board sells a lot of American-made furniture, although mostly from Vermont. There's no reason why the NC furniture makers couldn't be making similar furniture for sale to other retailers/chains. In fact, I've actually been a little surprised that in an economy where corporations are not hiring, that we haven't seen more of a return to craft in the U.S.
Let's see if we can figure this out. Property is taxed at its value. Apple's site is something like 100 acres which used to be farm and forest. What do you think the farm and forest land was worth? Maybe a few thousand dollars an acre. It is now worth $1 B. So whatever the tax rate is, the taxes will be many, many times greater now than they were.
Hint: You know you've gone off the deep end when you say that EVERYONE agrees with your proposal. The fact is that the "fair tax" is controversial and is NOT universally accepted. If it were, it would have been enacted.
Would this be a form of gentrification then?
You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.
Your comment makes no sense.
So was Apple supposed to hire unskilled workers? Did they male a promise to NC that's gone unfulfilled?
The problem these days is that Americans don't want o learn modern usage skills; if there was a wealth of IT expertise in Malden, NC, these people would get hired. A modern data center only needs so many maintenance crew.
Liberal thinking leads people to conclude that it is necessary to consider new, more effective ideas in creating a stable society.
This was the quote you could have stopped on. It isn't true. Liberalism has one idea, and one idea only: Take more money from those who earn it and spend it on whatever we deem to be the need.
What they profess to be "new" or "progressive" thinking, isn't actually a NEW idea, and it never is. It is always, and has always been the same idea they tried before, except this time, they'll spend more money making it fail. No liberal or progressive has suggested an actual new idea in 40 years.
Education a problem? TAX AND SPEND MORE. Health Care? TAX AND SPEND MORE. Pick an issue, the liberal solution is always the same. Take more of your money, and spend it.
So far as I can see, the only actual NEW ideas I have heard in the last 40 years have come from conservatives and libertarians: Flat Tax, Fair Tax, etc...but every time a new idea is voiced, it is the liberals who scream loudest why it won't work, even though these ideas have NEVER been tried, and would likely succeed.
Would this be a form of gentrification then?
This word doesn't mean what you think it means.