Apple: The Most Undervalued Large-Cap Stock in America

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  • Reply 121 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post


    I've pretty much given up hope of Apple getting any respect from Wall Street no matter how much revenue Apple earns.





    Apple is just like Rodney Dangerfield!



    They don't get no respect, no respect at all!
  • Reply 122 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djdj View Post


    But if Apple doesn't pay dividends, what do sales and earnings have to do with stock price? Stockholders aren't getting a dime of that money.



    Correct. They are speculating that the shares themselves will increase in value, and that they will be able to sell them for a capital gain, rather than buying them to generate investment income.



    Stock buyers treat Apple like it is a growth company.
  • Reply 123 of 216
    tjwaltjwal Posts: 404member
    There are some legitimate reasons why some will devalue the stock.

    1. Price is too high except for institutional investors. A stock split would increase the number of shareholders. More buyers will see the P/E ratio as attractive.

    2. Even at current stock price its capilization it huge. Double the stock price and it becomes incomprehensible, there is more room to down than up.

    3. A lot of investors see Apple as a one trick pony. If the "i" fad goes out of favor then there is a long way to fall.



    Personally I'm a bit worried about number 3 but Apple continues to amaze.
  • Reply 124 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kent909 View Post


    I'll be the cynic here. So who is this guy. He's the guy that if you go to his website and give him $150/mo. he will share this type of information with you. He will tell you on his website that they started back in 2008 and have stellar predictive results since. Three years and running. He is predicting that the stock of one of the most successful companies is going to go up! He is a graduate of UCLA law school and now a Wall Street guy. So now we are going to start listening again to lawyers and Wall street types? Will America ever learn.



    So since the author is a lawyer and a Wall street guy, we just plain ignore ALL his facts and numbers and do the same for ALL lawyers and Wall street guys: is that what you're advising America to learn?
  • Reply 125 of 216
    I am interested in Stock Exchange (but not Apple share holder). I think I can understand some of the twisted purely financial logic, which explains the situation (and which has been explained through some of the previous posts). Yet, what I fail to understand is that, obviously, Apple's insolent success, in a time of recession, necessarily finds a counterpart in its competitors hard time (as any observer can figure out). I thought that the principle of investors choice was to bet on success, and move away from unsuccess, right ?
  • Reply 126 of 216
    jessijessi Posts: 302member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Asherian View Post


    But I know a great many people who now won't touch AAPL stock.



    Think about that statement. Here we have a company that has not only been growing dramatically fast, but is even growing the rate of its own growth, and at the same time, despite being a tech stock is not over valued. I remember when Google and Amazon, and all those "darlings" were valued at 400 times earnings, and at that time they weren't growing as fast as Apple is growing now.



    If Apple were priced like that, the stock would be $17,600 per share! Yet, I know a great many people who were falling all over themselves to buy mediocre companies at an equivalent of $17,600 a share!



    People confuse the market with reality. The market is merely a price clearing mechanism. If nobody shows up to buy something, then its price will fall. If the item in question is Ferraris, are you going to say "Wow, Ferraris used to be really fancy, but now they're ugly cause they only cost $20,000!"



    Pretty absurd, no? Its this lemming like behavior that provides great opportunities in the market for people who are rational.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Part of the problem is the Stock market has long since drifted from a place to invest money. Investing means contributing money to a company to help it grow and to benefit from that "investment" if the company does in fact grow. Now, however, with the concept of short selling (and all the off shoots of that) the stock market has become nothing more than legalized gambling.



    Wrong. You're a gambler because you don't know what you're doing and you wasted money. Because you wasted money by spending it on an asset you couldn't be bothered to research, you lost the money.... as well you should.



    That doesn't mean the rest of us are being as stupid with our money.



    I take extremely aggressive positions. Ones people like you would think are akin to gambling, but I have no interest in gambling. Gambling is where you don't control the situation and you have no way of knowing what the risks are, but you spend the money anyway.



    Investing is where you've priced in the risk, found that there's an upside, and known how much you were going to make, conservatively, before you invested.



    That's the key. IF you know in advance what your position is going to be worth, then you're investing.



    Most people can't be bothered to do simple math.



    And that's why great companies like Apple are on sale, giving people like me the ability to make money with no risk.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dude127 View Post


    Come on...this article isn't going to help Apple...various companies had got their peak era and then fell down...Apple days are over...the 'i' is soon going to be replaced.



    I find it hilarious that haters will say Apple "fell down" when its growing at %90 a year! Most companies never achieve that in their lives, and for most stocks, a reliable %25 growth would make them a fantastic investment.



    Yet Apple, guiding at %80 for the next quarter has "fell down".



    The internet-- where I go to watch idiots in their natural habitat!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post


    Why does this stock booster article (by a company that owns stock) claim P/E of 8.25 on the front page when the actual P/E is 13?



    P/E can be calculated multiple ways, for instance, on the trailing 4 quarters earnings, or on the projected next 4 quarters earnings, or by taking the current quarters earnings and multiplying it by 4.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bwik View Post


    None of them are Apple founders. Steve died. Apple's brass are business leaders exactly like every other business leader.



    If you believe this, Sell your apple stock now. As far as I'm concerned, Apple went under in the 1990s and Apple now is Apple 2.0, a company built from scratch from the ruins of the old Apple. Its founders include Jonny Ive and Tim Cook.
  • Reply 127 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post


    Apple might also be compared to a luxury goods brand, something like an expensive designer clothes, spirits or watch manufacturer. Yet comparing those P/Es won't work either. People typically buy computers more often than really expensive watches, while much less often than clothes or spirits. How many designer clothes can you have in your wardrobe compared to mobile phones in your bag?





    Apple's computer business can be compared to other luxury consumer durables companies, like KitchenAid . Apple's consumer gadget business can be compared to other CE companies.
  • Reply 128 of 216
    mhiklmhikl Posts: 471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by frugality View Post


    Wow.....amazing what you get here on these interwebs....financial advice on a Apple fanboy site...



    Someone should check how much Apple stock this Zaky guy owns, and what his vested interests are in this...



    I love the Envy Boys. They are so tiresome and predictable. There is honour in being an Apple Fan just as there is honour in being a fan of most kinds. Standing for something that is measurably credible is noble compared to naysaying without foundation. Negative spiel based upon envy, garners neither honour nor regard when crying from under those loathsome rocks they lie.



    Now that was fun, Envy Boy.
  • Reply 129 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ris1 View Post


    So since the author is a lawyer and a Wall street guy, we just plain ignore ALL his facts and numbers and do the same for ALL lawyers and Wall street guys: is that what you're advising America to learn?



    I am not suggesting you ignore what he is telling you about Apple. It is the second recommendation that he makes, that I would worry about. He gave the easy slam dunk recommendation away for free.

    Are you a lawyer or a Wall St. guy? I can't think of anyone other than the same who would defend their integrity.
  • Reply 130 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post




    ...Apple gets a bum rap...



    ... Apple hating consumers ...






    We need to keep fighting for what is good and right and decent in this world. We need to turn the forces of darkness back, and to drive the haters into the netherworld from whence they came.



    Apple forever! Keep up the good fight!
  • Reply 131 of 216
    Disclaimer: The author probably has stock in Apple...
  • Reply 132 of 216
    swiftswift Posts: 436member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post


    I agree the stock is completely undervalued, as the article points out again, and again, and again. And as anyone who is so inclined can see for themselves if they analyzed Apple's 10q/k's (tip of the hat to Andy for doing the extensive amount of legwork, though).



    I'd be much more interested in a discussion of just WHY apple is so undervalued and why the CNBC-types are so useless (the story that iPod sales are slowing is a tragic miscarriage of journalism and the reporters / producers of that segment should be fired). So, why are they so bad? Why is the stock so undervalued?



    i think Jobs saw the market much as he saw the news media: a bunch of idiotic gossipers. The day they momentarily became the most valuable company in the world, he felt good, but only because his board would leave him alone. To him it was a game, and as a Zen buddhist, concentrating on stock evaluation was an illusion. The worth of Apple is from the machines they make.



    The question I always ask is, how does somebody make money from Apple? They buy low and keep it until they retire. It's the latest safe investment. Maybe. Like the computer industry is scrutable.



    To drive the stock price higher, they would need to declare dividends. Of course, they'd have to learn to share with gambler-- er, investors. And become an operation where they just milk the cash cow, and slow down innovation. Jobs destroyed products like the mini for the nano. What? Risky move! We'd rather have the coupons to clip.



    But buying Apple and hanging on still seems like a good long-term investment.
  • Reply 133 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Swift View Post


    i think Jobs saw the market much as he saw the news media: a bunch of idiotic gossipers. The day they momentarily became the most valuable company in the world, he felt good, but only because his board would leave him alone. To him it was a game, and as a Zen buddhist, concentrating on stock evaluation was an illusion. The worth of Apple is from the machines they make.



    The question I always ask is, how does somebody make money from Apple? They buy low and keep it until they retire. It's the latest safe investment. Maybe. Like the computer industry is scrutable.



    To drive the stock price higher, they would need to declare dividends. Of course, they'd have to learn to share with gambler-- er, investors. And become an operation where they just milk the cash cow, and slow down innovation. Jobs destroyed products like the mini for the nano. What? Risky move! We'd rather have the coupons to clip.



    But buying Apple and hanging on still seems like a good long-term investment.



    Fully agree +1 ( I hope you do not possess Apple share, though, some people here could question your integrity ...)
  • Reply 134 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mhikl View Post


    I love the Envy Boys. They are so tiresome and predictable. There is honour in being an Apple Fan just as there is honour in being a fan of most kinds. Standing for something that is measurably credible is noble compared to naysaying without foundation. Negative spiel based upon envy, garners neither honour nor regard when crying from under those loathsome rocks they lie.



    Now that was fun, Envy Boy.



    And I love the Fan Boys.....



    Perhaps those who are supposedly being envious are just annoyed that someone dispensing financial advice doesn't preface the article with whether or not they own Apple stock.
  • Reply 135 of 216
    jessijessi Posts: 302member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kent909 View Post


    Are you a lawyer or a Wall St. guy? I can't think of anyone other than the same who would defend their integrity.



    You remind me of people in the past who would say things like: "Are you a jew or a gypsy? I can't think of anyone other than the same who would defend their integrity".



    And for the very same reasons. Ignorant of history, doomed to repeat it.
  • Reply 136 of 216
    jessijessi Posts: 302member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post


    Disclaimer: The author probably has stock in Apple...



    You act as if this is some sort of secret. The author has stock in apple, and has never tried to hide it.



    The people you shouldn't take advice from are those who don't have the courage of their convictions. Someone recommending the stock but isn't buying it themselves? So, what is their recommendation really worth?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post


    We need to keep fighting for what is good and right and decent in this world. We need to turn the forces of darkness back, and to drive the haters into the netherworld from whence they came.



    Apple forever! Keep up the good fight!



    Don't get emotional about stock. My investment thesis for Apple has no assumption that Apple ill ever get a "fair" P/E.



    Having a floor on the P/E just reduces risk for me... I don't need Apple to ever by "fairly" valued.





    [QUOTE=Swift;1996461]i think Jobs saw the market much as he saw the news media: a bunch of idiotic gossipers. [quote]



    This is how I see the world-- a bunch of idiots. Idiots in government, running most companies, posting on the internet, and certainly, those in the media are idiots.



    This is good for investing, because it lets you focus on the fundamentals, buy while the idiots are running for the door.



    Quote:

    The question I always ask is, how does somebody make money from Apple? They buy low and keep it until they retire.



    Because apple doesn't split these day,s there never is a "low" because they think $400 is expensive for a single share. Idiots don't understand splits.



    You can also buy call options, or buy out of the money calls and sell further out of the money calls. So, for $3 you can buy the spread between $400-$410. Given Apple's volatility, the two earnings releases between now and then (or so) and the fact that its already seen $420.... when it hits $410 again, that spread is selling for $9, you close out your position and you're up %300 in 6 months, a %600 annualized return. But you have to be objective, careful and disciplined to do that. You have to be willing to lose %100 of your money some times against making %300 (so you never put it all into a single position.)



    Quote:

    To drive the stock price higher, they would need to declare dividends.



    Dividends would be foolish. Apple has better use for the money and a better return on it. Dividends are the sign that the company has given up or is run by idiots.



    They could split the stock-- that's neutral, and would result in a lot more people piling on. If they split it 10/1 people would say "Apple at $45 is cheap!" where they were saying "Apple at $450, that' expensive!" Because people are idiots.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post


    Fully agree +1 ( I hope you do not possess Apple share, though, some people here could question your integrity ...)



    I question the integrity of people who can't argue to the point, but instead argue to the person by asking if the person making the points has apple shares.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post


    Perhaps those who are supposedly being envious are just annoyed that someone dispensing financial advice doesn't preface the article with whether or not they own Apple stock.



    There was no financial advice in that article. He never said to buy Apple stock or at what price, or to take any financial position. He just analyzed the stock and presented facts. If you're rational, you can check his facts and consider his argument... but you're not rational, you're an idiot.
  • Reply 137 of 216
    mhiklmhikl Posts: 471member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post


    And I love the Fan Boys.....



    Perhaps those who are supposedly being envious are just annoyed that someone dispensing financial advice doesn't preface the article with whether or not they own Apple stock.



    Possibly the eye roller should read the whole article. As most financial articles, its stock standing comes at the end of the article.



    Quoted from end of article: Andy M. Zaky is a fund manager at Bullish Cross Capital, an Appleinsider contributor and runs the financial newsletter, Bullish Cross. Bullish Cross Capital owns Apple as a major holding in the portfolio
  • Reply 138 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DamenS View Post


    So what are you going to do about it other than "piss and moan". Seriously, all you whining sycophants can protest all you want, but welcome to reality. Yes, AAPL is hugely undervalued from a fundamental perspective and yes, that hurts as I am Long but I am not a little baby crying "Wah, Wah !!". This is the stock market - we are playing with adults in a large group who do not care about each of us individually. If they don't want to buy AAPL and that causes us pain, then so be it ... none of us were forced to "invest" in the share market, and all this crying about how unfairly we are being treated by some anonymous, amorphous large group of other people is neither helpful nor mature. Stock market = risks. Perform Due Dilligence, BUT understand this may not be enough - even people who can card count must lose a hand or two in the casino.



    Problem is that your playing ground is The central part of Western economy. Fact people are twisting real facts to earn fast cash is hurting everybody with true interest in THE economy at large. If this game isn't put under controll the Western way of doing business Will end.
  • Reply 139 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjwal View Post


    There are some legitimate reasons why some will devalue the stock.

    1. Price is too high except for institutional investors. A stock split would increase the number of shareholders. More buyers will see the P/E ratio as attractive.

    2. Even at current stock price its capilization it huge. Double the stock price and it becomes incomprehensible, there is more room to down than up.

    3. A lot of investors see Apple as a one trick pony. If the "i" fad goes out of favor then there is a long way to fall.



    Personally I'm a bit worried about number 3 but Apple continues to amaze.



    1. Any investor worth their salt knows that it's the value of the stock that matters, not price. And if you look at the ownership of most stocks, the majority is made up of institutional investors.



    2. This doesn't make any sense. Capitalization is the stock price multiplied by number of shares outstanding. I don't understand where you're going with number 2.



    3. That's utter BS. Apple is not a one-trick pony. In their product portfolio, they have Macs, iPads, iPhones, and iPods. They also sell software. How does that make Apple a "one-trick pony?" Apple is not a one-trick pony.
  • Reply 140 of 216
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post


    Apple investors are waiting for the *next big thing*. All of the great revenue generators have already been released, and, therefore, blessed by the great Jobs while he was still alive. Stock price is about the future. Wall Street needs to see a great new iPad 3, a great new radically refreshed iPhone and the next sales growth generator......the new, non-hobby AppleTV.



    The product pipeline has already been laid for the next 5 years, IMHO. Wall Street and investors need to see those future products and have them light the world on fire, like is expected of Apple, before they jump in head-first again. Until then, they'll only be getting their toes wet by very conservatively following Apple's sales revenue dollars (and margin) with their investment dollars....hence the current P/E compression.



    My 2 cents.



    EDIT: The stock has been undervalued ever since Wall Street had the prospect of Apple without Steve Jobs in the back of their mind, which has been fueled by the health rumor mill for many, many years......since the 'C' word was brought to light.



    What "next big thing" do investors expect out of Amazon that they're ready to pay 100x earnings for it?
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