Apple rumored to revamp MacBook Air lineup with 15-in. model in early 2012

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 68
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,896member
    Ivy Bridge should allow for the same performance level 11" AIR with a far longer battery lifetime. That is if Apple goes after run time instead of performance.



    As for me the screens are too tiny on these machines. When you get past 50, letters the size of children's building blocks are much easier to read. This is one reason why I'm interested in the 15" AIR.



    Running a 2008 MBP though has me very use to always having my power adapter along. I might go into shock if I had a laptop that lasted more than 3 hours on a charge. However I'm wondering if the user might be impacting battery life, maybe your wife is a little more gentle with her machine. Your comment makes me wonder about the average run time of the 11".



    In any event here is to hoping Ivy Bridge lives up to all the rumors. If it does, IB will have a huge impact on Apples line up.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    If I had to do it all over again, I would gladly trade in my 11" (1.8 GHz, 4GBRAM, 256GBHD) MBA for the 13" -- the battery life sucks.



    I am lucky if I get 3 hours. My wife, otoh, routinely gets 7 - 10 hours on her 13".



  • Reply 42 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    Well Apple just removed the Macbook in July, altho it is still available for educational sales. It's possible we could see a rebranding of the lineup by dropping the Air, but they have built a pretty positive brandname, so I don't know how likely that would be. The optical drives might last one more round in the MBP, but if they are doing a full revamp of the appearance of the laptop line, I don't expect it to make the cut.



    I think the opposite might actually be true, they could drop the "Pro" and make them all "Airs". The whole line up would be from 11" to 17". There are now only two lines "Pro" and "Air". Macbook has been sent to educational siberia. Not all users are "Pro", so from a marketing perspective retaining the "Air" moniker to denote the qualities of the unibody enclosure makes sense.
  • Reply 43 of 68
    I just hope the thin the bezels of the current MBA displays, and allow for the glass option. Also, it would be nice if Apple put in some real speakers, like on the PB G4. That size would be nice on a 15in MBA. Couldn't they use the same tech Samsung uses on the 7 series Chronos laptops?
  • Reply 44 of 68
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    Seriously, what kinda bullshit is this? I see this comment all the time. The 17" MBP weighs 6.6 pounds. That is not heavy. My loaded backpack when when I was in high school weighed well over that. Heck, taking a stack of D&D books to game w/friends weighs more than that. I'm 35 and have no problem w/weights like this. What is wrong w/this picture?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Panu View Post


    The difficulty of carrying an object is not just a function of its weight, it's more like the weight of an object times the distance you have to carry it. I once issued a six-pound laptop to an employee who had no problem carrying it from his car into the building and back at the end of the day. He said it wasn't too heavy at all. Then his workplace moved to the client's site downtown. He had to carry the laptop to the subway station, on the subway during the ride, then two blocks from the station to the building, then while in the elevator, then from the elevator to his desk, at which point he was almost too worn out to work. He came back for a lighter laptop. It was too heavy.



    A six-pound object weighs more than a 40-pound object if you have to carry the six-pound object across town but you only have to carry the 40-pound object across the room. Whether a six-pound laptop is heavy or light depends on how far you normally have to carry it.



    I was thinking about it this way: I take my 2008 15" MBP with me on the subway and then back home again daily. When it's just that it's really not a bad haul and I'm not at all unhappy. But on the days when I have the large Wacom and two portable drives and a folder of documents and some 300 page thing in a FedEx envelope and the power supply and maybe my lunch I usually notice the weight for the entire time, and it serves to remind me that it's close enough to the "undoable" tag that I've never been able to even consider the 17" as an upgrade.



    It's not the comparison of the two by themselves. It's the 17" with everything else that makes the trip that might put it over the edge.
  • Reply 45 of 68
    Is this new revamp going to have any internal additions , as in graphics card or just same MacBook air with a 15' inch display??
  • Reply 46 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jeff2021 View Post


    Is this new revamp going to have any internal additions , as in graphics card or just same MacBook air with a 15' inch display??



    Of course it will have new internals?



    It'll be Ivy Bridge (and the new integrated GPU that comes therewith), it'll have the standard slew of stick-based SSDs, and it might even have two Thunderbolt ports.
  • Reply 47 of 68
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,896member
    Not so much that the internals will be new but rather that we will get everything described below.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Of course it will have new internals?



    Unless of course Ivy Bridge is so far away that Apple feels another bump is in order. I don't think this is the case though, Ivy Bridge is still very likely early in 2012.

    Quote:

    It'll be Ivy Bridge (and the new integrated GPU that comes therewith),



    Let's hope so! More importantly lets hope the hype pans out and that this really is the update we are expecting. This is especially the case with the GPU because if it delivers on the rumors and leaks it wll turn the AIRs into very nice machines.

    Quote:

    it'll have the standard slew of stick-based SSDs,



    Right now the standard slew as you call it is one stick. I really want to see the machines, especially the 15" variant, supporting more than one stick. I'm not sure what Intels chip set supports, but a minimum of 3, SATA 6 supporting blade slots would be nice. This would allow for a great deal of internal storage. It would also be nice if the blade packages could be a bit thicker for even more storage per stick.

    Quote:

    and it might even have two Thunderbolt ports.



    Now that is a stretch. However in the long run Apple and Intel will have to address this as one port really isnt enough. Unfortunately I haven't even heard of a hint that this will be supported in a laptop anytime soon.
  • Reply 48 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Now that is a stretch. However in the long run Apple and Intel will have to address this as one port really isnt enough. Unfortunately I haven't even heard of a hint that this will be supported in a laptop anytime soon.



    You have to admit, two Thunderbolt ports would make it sell like hotcakes. People formerly staunchly in the 15" Pro (provided it still exists if a 15" Air is released) camp would be swayed, I think.
  • Reply 49 of 68
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    That would surely be why a MBA 17" could be possible, unlike a MBP it could be carried by an average human being for more than a hundred yards.



    I can carry a 17" MBP all day -- until I get to an airport, at which point I have to leave behind or check as baggage either the MBP or everything else. I'll be flying tomorrow and I can take either my iPad2 or my 13" MBA, but not both because of the 8kg carry-on limit.
  • Reply 50 of 68
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    You have to admit, two Thunderbolt ports would make it sell like hotcakes. People formerly staunchly in the 15" Pro (provided it still exists if a 15" Air is released) camp would be swayed, I think.



    Do you really think they'd ditch the 15" Pro before the 13"? I'd say the 13" would be far more likely than an immediate EOL to the prime option with discreet graphics and faster hardware. If you believe the articles, power consumption won't be low enough to get current macbook pro like internals into an air form factor. I also haven't seen anything from ATI or NVidia "yet" that would function with an air or ultrabook form factor (give it a little time). Intel's integrated graphics still have issues and still lack OpenCL support.



    Anyway I'm wondering why you think they'd immediately kill it when the 13" pro is lingering.
  • Reply 51 of 68
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    Intel's integrated graphics still have issues and still lack OpenCL support.



    OpenCL and DX11 support are both built into Ivy Bridge. Sandy Bridge is stuck on DX10.
  • Reply 52 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    Do you really think they'd ditch the 15" Pro before the 13"?



    I think that if the 15" was slated to die, the 13" would die with it, whenever that date comes, provided the 13" hadn't already been killed.
  • Reply 53 of 68
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I think that if the 15" was slated to die, the 13" would die with it, whenever that date comes, provided the 13" hadn't already been killed.



    The Air would have a long way to go to make a true replacement, and I've posted weight factors before. The 13" Air seems light because they're comparing to the 15" pro, and the majority of the weight comes from things other than the extra case weight.
  • Reply 54 of 68
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,896member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    I can carry a 17" MBP all day -- until I get to an airport, at which point I have to leave behind or check as baggage either the MBP or everything else. I'll be flying tomorrow and I can take either my iPad2 or my 13" MBA, but not both because of the 8kg carry-on limit.



    Back in the day we would think nothing of packing a couple of cases filled with tools and electronics. Now a days such things would likely cause a security scare. Plus excessive charges for weight. I can remember a number of occasions where I had to lift cases for the gal behind the counter due to the weight. Frankly the hassle of flying has me driving more and more for personal travel.



    The thing is you still run into a size problem even when traveling around in a car, truck or van. This is where iPad really shines.
  • Reply 55 of 68
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,896member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I think that if the 15" was slated to die, the 13" would die with it, whenever that date comes, provided the 13" hadn't already been killed.



    I don't think the MBP will ever die, or at least the concept of a lower and higher performance line of laptops. It has to do with marketing, there will always be people wanting something a little better than a base machine. If you don't have that hardware they will look else where.



    That being said it is about time for Apple and intel to really move the technology forward in the MBP's. There is no reason for the design to remain static and there is a lot of interesting technology coming to light.
  • Reply 56 of 68
    I was very struck by the product matrix that Steve Jobs created when he returned to Apple. Instead of hundreds of different SKUs with a bewildering range of features and price points but no real differentiation, he created a simple 2 x 2 diagram with Consumer and Professional along one axis and Desktop and Notebook across the other. The result was the iMac and MacPro and the MacBook and the MacBook Pro.



    I wonder if the time has come to create a new matrix that now dispenses with the terms Consumer and Professional, because very shortly we'll have chips that don't cost a lot but deliver more power than most desk top users will ever need?



    I certainly see Apple's notebook range merging into a single line-up of MacBook Airs. I am not sure anyone needs a 17" MacBook Air. The ability to plug any Apple laptop into a larger screen at home or in the office, means that a 13" or 15" should suffice for most on-the-fly tasks. Mind you, if Apple can make a 17" MBA, i am sure people would buy it.



    I think the same is true for the IMac. It is rapidly becoming as powerful as the MacPro. The ability to customise a single design, choosing a faster processor, adding extra memory, and different screen sizes seems like the way to go.



    I wonder if we're also reaching a point where notebook chips and desktop chips are interchangeable. At a certain point, computer design will no longer be concerned with shoehorning extensive motherboards into ever smaller enclosures; instead, it will simply be concerned with human ergonomics.



    Power will be universal, choices will be governed by weight, desired screen size, and physiological considerations that make machines easier to use and more portable.



    I'd like to see a rationalisation of names too. We have the Apple iPhone, iPad, iPod and iTunes. Why can we simply have the iLaptop and iDesktop? Is the word 'Mac' now redundant? has Apple moved beyond Macintosh?
  • Reply 57 of 68
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,896member
    Not that I agree with all your points as I see Appple expanding hardware offerings.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tailpipe View Post


    I was very struck by the product matrix that Steve Jobs created when he returned to Apple. Instead of hundreds of different SKUs with a bewildering range of features and price points but no real differentiation, he created a simple 2 x 2 diagram with Consumer and Professional along one axis and Desktop and Notebook across the other. The result was the iMac and MacPro and the MacBook and the MacBook Pro.



    Apples supply chain was a mess back then, but the urgency with which that refactoring was pursued had a lot to do with saving the company. People don't realize that they may have had as little as 90 days left as a viable business.



    The problem now is that the Mac desktop line up has become stagnant and for the most part is made up of machines that are a poor value. The line is very unbalanced when compared to the laptops.

    Quote:

    I wonder if the time has come to create a new matrix that now dispenses with the terms Consumer and Professional, because very shortly we'll have chips that don't cost a lot but deliver more power than most desk top users will ever need?



    That is like suggesting that Ford should only make F150's and ignore the market that the F250's & F359's serve. Frankly your comment also highlights a perspective I don't see coming in the near future, that is the idea that computers are fast enough. It will be a very very long time before computers are so fast that everybody will be happy with them. If ever.

    Quote:

    I certainly see Apple's notebook range merging into a single line-up of MacBook Airs. I am not sure anyone needs a 17" MacBook Air. The ability to plug any Apple laptop into a larger screen at home or in the office, means that a 13" or 15" should suffice for most on-the-fly tasks. Mind you, if Apple can make a 17" MBA, i am sure people would buy it.



    There will always be people willing to pay for extra performance, for whatever reason. Take engineering for example, most Macs can handle 2 and 3D CAD fairly well. Move to solid modeling and things get a little different. In either case the complexity of the project is a big deal. More importantly as computer power has improved so to has the ability of professionals to take advantage of that power.



    Beyond the differences in GPU/CPU power available in MBP sized computers there are little things that make them attractive to computer buyers. For example the flexibility in bumping secondary storage to fit a users needs. The ability to use industry standard RAM is another feature that draws people to MBPs. In the end Apples customers have a very wide array of needs, as such apple needs hardware to match those needs.

    Quote:



    I think the same is true for the IMac. It is rapidly becoming as powerful as the MacPro. The ability to customise a single design, choosing a faster processor, adding extra memory, and different screen sizes seems like the way to go.



    In my opinion Apples reliance on the iMac as a Mid-Range machine is a big mistake. It isn't a bad machine mind you, but it is not a desktop unit. In the end Apple rigid desktop line up has caused a lot of people to vote with their feet and ignore Apples desktop lineup.



    Quote:



    I wonder if we're also reaching a point where notebook chips and desktop chips are interchangeable. At a certain point, computer design will no longer be concerned with shoehorning extensive motherboards into ever smaller enclosures; instead, it will simply be concerned with human ergonomics.



    Performance wise you will always get better results from a faster running thus hotter chip. However in some regards we already have this, if you remember back a bit intel went with the current core design to put chips into laptops, the design was eventually seen as the way to build desktop chips. Granted the processes the chips are built on may be slightly different and the included hardware does vary but Intels current hardware is descended from laptop chips.



    What we are seeing now is that Intel will likely be making chips for a wider array of machines on one process. So you will have a lineup of chips that span a very wide array of wattages to suit your computing needs.

    Quote:

    Power will be universal, choices will be governed by weight, desired screen size, and physiological considerations that make machines easier to use and more portable.



    I'm convinced that future AIR machines will meet a wider array of user needs than such laptops have in the past. That doesn't mean an end in demand for performance machines. It will be a very long time before AIR like machines can outperform higher end hardware.

    Quote:

    I'd like to see a rationalisation of names too. We have the Apple iPhone, iPad, iPod and iTunes. Why can we simply have the iLaptop and iDesktop? Is the word 'Mac' now redundant? has Apple moved beyond Macintosh?



    Please NO! First Apple hadn't moved beyond Macintosh. It is infact a rapidly growing market. Second Apple, for marketing issues and clarity for the consumer needs to keep the distinction between hardware. Having everything be an I device would muddy the waters.
  • Reply 58 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    Seriously, what kinda bullshit is this? I see this comment all the time. The 17" MBP weighs 6.6 pounds. That is not heavy. My loaded backpack when when I was in high school weighed well over that. Heck, taking a stack of D&D books to game w/friends weighs more than that. I'm 35 and have no problem w/weights like this. What is wrong w/this picture?



    I have been carrying my 17" around in my backpack since early 2009. Every day. Luckily, I am built like a pro Football player... NOT. Seriously, 6.6 lb is the same weight as many 15" Windows laptops.



    The main issue with the 17" is size, not weight. It's just too large to fit some bags, etc. OK less weight would be good as well but the main reason I will go back to 15 is width/height. A 15 fits in any bag...



    I am one of those odd professionals who doesn't mind glossy. One gets used to it, and frankly it isn't a big deal. Matte is not great in direct sunlight either, after all. The great thing about glossy is that it's made from glass which means it doesn't scratch. My screen looks the same as it did on day one, show me a matte screen that isn't scratched after 2 years - I certainly never had one.
  • Reply 59 of 68
    rbrrbr Posts: 631member
    I had been hoping that the Feb 2012 MBP would include an Ivy Bridge processor, but that seems unlikely based upon the news of the last few days.



    It seems that Intel are quoting Q2 2012 as the expected delivery date.\ I know that they occasionally deliver before the quoted date, but this is not encouraging. It is looking like it will just be a small "bump" release early next year.



    Still, I have not completely given up on a Feb announcement with a March shipping date.



    I think a lot of people would like a quad core 13" MBP with a non-glare screen. I know I certainly would.
  • Reply 60 of 68
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RBR View Post


    I had been hoping that the Feb 2012 MBP would include an Ivy Bridge processor, but that seems unlikely based upon the news of the last few days.



    It seems that Intel are quoting Q2 2012 as the expected delivery date.\ I know that they occasionally deliver before the quoted date, but this is not encouraging. It is looking like it will just be a small "bump" release early next year.



    Still, I have not completely given up on a Feb announcement with a March shipping date.



    I think a lot of people would like a quad core 13" MBP with a non-glare screen. I know I certainly would.



    There will be no small bump. There are no real cpu bumps to do it. You'll just see a later release. If they did a minor bump, base ram is unlikely, drive capacity again unlikely, cpus = no new ones available (mid generation bump was basically a month ago). Apple is not on a fixed schedule for releases. If new parts aren't available by then, you simply will not see a bump.
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