Apple is a huge buyer of Intels notebook chips, that alone would put them at the top as far as discounts go. More so intel can't legally maneuver to far outside of giving discounts based on anything other than volume. This due their near monopoly in the processor business.
As far as ARM goes they will be a hard sell to Apples more informed users. Or maybe I should say more demanding users. The need for X86 compatibility is and will be important to a large segment of Apple users for some time.
More importantly ARM is currently only 32 bit. Again you have the real issue of many people actually using the address space provided by 64 bits. Not to mention the very easy nature of running other OS's in VMs.
Now saying that I believe Apple will make an ARM based notebook like device play. However that device will not be a Mac. You are right in the sense that ARM is bad for Intels low end. ATOM so far has been a joke as even AMD makes better chips. The problem with ARM won't be performance but compatibility, for those that need compatibility. Apple will have to be awfully careful about how they approach ARM in portables.
No one expects Mac OS and Windows to be running on ARM-based products tomorrow. Intel has to be proactive hear. Think a couple yearas ahead.
I am referring to quad-core Cortex-A15 as the minimum as I expect 2013 to be a reasonable time these chips will be selling in quantity, when Win8 is out and Mac OS X 10.8 will be well documented, but all Cortex are still ARMv7 and will only be 32-bit. If I had a name for the 64bit chips outside of ARMv8 I'd likely use that.
That said, I don't think you can rule out Apple, even in 2 years, putting more than 4GB of soldered RAM on a MBA-like machine. If we through on these Windows and Mac App Stores being the only way for ARM-based PCs to get apps would they really need more than 4GB RAM. Both companies would have a good way to control the user experience which would also likely include reducing the load on the system. More refined app switching and resource use that takes hints from iOS seem like something that would filter into the next version of Mac OS.
Now I know you and I don't want Apple to limit the way we get apps but how much does the average person really care, especially if that means Apple can reboot the MacBook line with a $800 notebook that can be forever tied to buying apps through their store. Apple has a great track record of having an SDK that can make Universal apps for multiple architectures, the Mac App Store just makes the whole easier for them, for better or worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I agree completely. I don't foresee an ARM-powered MBP any time soon.
I don't think anyone has conceived of an ARM-powered MBP.
Quote:
I do, however, anticipate an 'iPad Pro' which could have a similar configuration to the MacBook Air, but run iOS on ARM. Basically, Apple's equivalent of a netbook. Won't do anything too powerful, but perfectly fine for games, Internet, and even light word processing and spreadsheets.
How does that work? If it ha a keyboard and trackpad it's no longer an iPad and it no longer can use iOS without iOS being drastically altered. I don't see anything like that happening. The closest would seem to be a Motorola Atrix-like device (using this as example even though dual-UIs is not a new concept) that would use iOS as a touch-based device and then flip to an Aqua UI-type UI when plugged into HW with a keyboard and trackpad/mouse.
Well, it would seem new ivy-bridge based MBAs will be on their way some time next year. If Apple ships an 11" MBA starting at $899, I'll be grinning ear-to-ear.
No one expects Mac OS and Windows to be running on ARM-based products tomorrow. Intel has to be proactive hear. Think a couple yearas ahead.
I am referring to quad-core Cortex-A15 as the minimum as I expect 2013 to be a reasonable time these chips will be selling in quantity, when Win8 is out and Mac OS X 10.8 will be well documented, but all Cortex are still ARMv7 and will only be 32-bit. If I had a name for the 64bit chips outside of ARMv8 I'd likely use that.
That said, I don't think you can rule out Apple, even in 2 years, putting more than 4GB of soldered RAM on a MBA-like machine. If we through on these Windows and Mac App Stores being the only way for ARM-based PCs to get apps would they really need more than 4GB RAM. Both companies would have a good way to control the user experience which would also likely include reducing the load on the system. More refined app switching and resource use that takes hints from iOS seem like something that would filter into the next version of Mac OS.
Now I know you and I don't want Apple to limit the way we get apps but how much does the average person really care, especially if that means Apple can reboot the MacBook line with a $800 notebook that can be forever tied to buying apps through their store. Apple has a great track record of having an SDK that can make Universal apps for multiple architectures, the Mac App Store just makes the whole easier for them, for better or worse.
I just don't see any way that Apple can switch even the MBA to ARM any time soon. No existing software would run on it. ARM (even a quad core A-15) isn't going to have the horsepower for a Rosetta-type solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I don't think anyone has conceived of an ARM-powered MBP.
Which says that the latest rumors are that Apple would switch its entire laptop line to ARM. The same thing has come up here, as well (many times).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
How does that work? If it ha a keyboard and trackpad it's no longer an iPad and it no longer can use iOS without iOS being drastically altered. I don't see anything like that happening. The closest would seem to be a Motorola Atrix-like device (using this as example even though dual-UIs is not a new concept) that would use iOS as a touch-based device and then flip to an Aqua UI-type UI when plugged into HW with a keyboard and trackpad/mouse.
It's not hard to imagine. People who use their iPad for significant amounts of email or text work probably spend more time on the soft keypad than in the UI. Picture a MBA format. The screen part is an iPad - essentially unmodified. The keyboard part is a standard hardware keyboard.
You would still interface with the system by touching the screen to launch apps, but inside the app, you'd mostly use the keyboard (although you could still use the iPad screen to select items and/or click on links. So, for example, you touch the email icon to launch Mail. You then create and type your message with the keypad.
That would work with almost no modifications to iOS or the iPad itself. However, to go one step further, if they could add touchpad functionality, it would allow you to navigate within the app from the touch pad, as well.
... as is most modern technology likely to see price drops.
You don't seem to understand. While one would normally expect existing electronics to drop in price, this is a situation in which all non-apple manufacturers are running scared.
How do we know this? It is because Apple is so great that every decision by every other manufacturer is based upon Apple's actions.
So Intel is giving discounts on CULV chips to companies using their ultrabook base design but Apple, the company that buys a great many of these expensive CULV chips isn't get this discount?
Intel isn't treating Apple as well! That is not FAIR!
They probably do get a good deal as one of their larger customers. But still, that's because of sales numbers. But, if these companies are getting an additional $100, because they're concerned about low sales, then Apple should demand the $100 as well. I would.
And Intel would oblige, given that Apple moves enough product to justify it. Of course, I think Apple knows that and got a better deal that other vendors to start with. I can't prove that, but Apple doesn't enter into negotiations without understanding its leverage. And I think they knew the redesigned Air would be a hit.
Everything is compared to Apple in an attempt to justify NOT buying Apple.
It is Apple vs. the world. We are on the side of what is good and right. Everyone else is Google\\Microsoft\\Evil.
If they buy a PC, they make excuses in an attempt to justify NOT buying Apple. If they buy an Android phone, they make excuses in an attempt to justify NOT buying Apple.
They have no good reasons; they all hate Apple. We need to keep fighting for what is good and pure and right.
How does that work? If it ha a keyboard and trackpad it's no longer an iPad and it no longer can use iOS without iOS being drastically altered. I don't see anything like that happening. The closest would seem to be a Motorola Atrix-like device (using this as example even though dual-UIs is not a new concept) that would use iOS as a touch-based device and then flip to an Aqua UI-type UI when plugged into HW with a keyboard and trackpad/mouse.
Have you played with the Asus Transformer? The new one, the Transformer Prime, is reviewed to be even better than the original.
If Apple comes out with something like it soon, they can claim to have invented the concept. Or popularizing the concept. Or at least, taking the concept and making it better. But nobody knows better, so it will be an Apple thing and everybody will copy Apple.
Have you played with the Asus Transformer? The new one, the Transformer Prime, is reviewed to be even better than the original.
If Apple comes out with something like it soon, they can claim to have invented the concept.
1) Nope, haven't seen a Transformer Prime, but it looks nice. Asus has nice, original designs.
2) I use the Atrix as the example because the UI changes. All the Transformers seem to do is re-add the mouse cursor functionality in Android. I have trouble seeing Apple doing that on iOS, but that's beside the point, I was pointing out that Apple's use of the same kernel for iOS and Mac OS could mean a dual UI system that could easily trounce the competition, but both currently work great. No need to reinvent the wheel if they go that route (which I doubt).
3) You had a nice post and then you had to add your last sentence? You know that makes you sound right? Apple gets credit not for being the first, but for being the first to go all in with a refined technology. This is why they succeed and why so many aren't aware that a tech exists until Apple get onboard with it.
1) Nope, haven't seen a Transformer Prime, but it looks nice. Asus has nice, original designs.
I don't think the Prime has hit the shelves yet, but I was playing with an original at Best Buy the other day. A salesman wandered by and was telling me all about how much he loved it, to the point that I was wondering if he got a spiff for selling them.
But the machine looked very nice, and the keyboard option was well-integrated. I liked the idea that it could be removed completely. Likely the keyboard would reside on a desk at home, but snapped on when taking the tablet out somewhere. The big question in my mind was whether the tablet would be fast enough to be a satisfying laptop. The new one will have the Tegra 3 chip, with 4 fast cores and a 5th low-power core.
Battery life is supposed to be exceptionally long with the keyboard attached, because it incorporates a second battery. Nice.
I have another question about which version of Android it would come out with - unless ICS is available, I don't see the point of even considering the Transformer.
Comments
Apple is a huge buyer of Intels notebook chips, that alone would put them at the top as far as discounts go. More so intel can't legally maneuver to far outside of giving discounts based on anything other than volume. This due their near monopoly in the processor business.
As far as ARM goes they will be a hard sell to Apples more informed users. Or maybe I should say more demanding users. The need for X86 compatibility is and will be important to a large segment of Apple users for some time.
More importantly ARM is currently only 32 bit. Again you have the real issue of many people actually using the address space provided by 64 bits. Not to mention the very easy nature of running other OS's in VMs.
Now saying that I believe Apple will make an ARM based notebook like device play. However that device will not be a Mac. You are right in the sense that ARM is bad for Intels low end. ATOM so far has been a joke as even AMD makes better chips. The problem with ARM won't be performance but compatibility, for those that need compatibility. Apple will have to be awfully careful about how they approach ARM in portables.
No one expects Mac OS and Windows to be running on ARM-based products tomorrow. Intel has to be proactive hear. Think a couple yearas ahead.
I am referring to quad-core Cortex-A15 as the minimum as I expect 2013 to be a reasonable time these chips will be selling in quantity, when Win8 is out and Mac OS X 10.8 will be well documented, but all Cortex are still ARMv7 and will only be 32-bit. If I had a name for the 64bit chips outside of ARMv8 I'd likely use that.
That said, I don't think you can rule out Apple, even in 2 years, putting more than 4GB of soldered RAM on a MBA-like machine. If we through on these Windows and Mac App Stores being the only way for ARM-based PCs to get apps would they really need more than 4GB RAM. Both companies would have a good way to control the user experience which would also likely include reducing the load on the system. More refined app switching and resource use that takes hints from iOS seem like something that would filter into the next version of Mac OS.
Now I know you and I don't want Apple to limit the way we get apps but how much does the average person really care, especially if that means Apple can reboot the MacBook line with a $800 notebook that can be forever tied to buying apps through their store. Apple has a great track record of having an SDK that can make Universal apps for multiple architectures, the Mac App Store just makes the whole easier for them, for better or worse.
I agree completely. I don't foresee an ARM-powered MBP any time soon.
I don't think anyone has conceived of an ARM-powered MBP.
I do, however, anticipate an 'iPad Pro' which could have a similar configuration to the MacBook Air, but run iOS on ARM. Basically, Apple's equivalent of a netbook. Won't do anything too powerful, but perfectly fine for games, Internet, and even light word processing and spreadsheets.
How does that work? If it ha a keyboard and trackpad it's no longer an iPad and it no longer can use iOS without iOS being drastically altered. I don't see anything like that happening. The closest would seem to be a Motorola Atrix-like device (using this as example even though dual-UIs is not a new concept) that would use iOS as a touch-based device and then flip to an Aqua UI-type UI when plugged into HW with a keyboard and trackpad/mouse.
No one expects Mac OS and Windows to be running on ARM-based products tomorrow. Intel has to be proactive hear. Think a couple yearas ahead.
I am referring to quad-core Cortex-A15 as the minimum as I expect 2013 to be a reasonable time these chips will be selling in quantity, when Win8 is out and Mac OS X 10.8 will be well documented, but all Cortex are still ARMv7 and will only be 32-bit. If I had a name for the 64bit chips outside of ARMv8 I'd likely use that.
That said, I don't think you can rule out Apple, even in 2 years, putting more than 4GB of soldered RAM on a MBA-like machine. If we through on these Windows and Mac App Stores being the only way for ARM-based PCs to get apps would they really need more than 4GB RAM. Both companies would have a good way to control the user experience which would also likely include reducing the load on the system. More refined app switching and resource use that takes hints from iOS seem like something that would filter into the next version of Mac OS.
Now I know you and I don't want Apple to limit the way we get apps but how much does the average person really care, especially if that means Apple can reboot the MacBook line with a $800 notebook that can be forever tied to buying apps through their store. Apple has a great track record of having an SDK that can make Universal apps for multiple architectures, the Mac App Store just makes the whole easier for them, for better or worse.
I just don't see any way that Apple can switch even the MBA to ARM any time soon. No existing software would run on it. ARM (even a quad core A-15) isn't going to have the horsepower for a Rosetta-type solution.
I don't think anyone has conceived of an ARM-powered MBP.
Really? Try:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...y-would-it.ars
Which says that the latest rumors are that Apple would switch its entire laptop line to ARM. The same thing has come up here, as well (many times).
How does that work? If it ha a keyboard and trackpad it's no longer an iPad and it no longer can use iOS without iOS being drastically altered. I don't see anything like that happening. The closest would seem to be a Motorola Atrix-like device (using this as example even though dual-UIs is not a new concept) that would use iOS as a touch-based device and then flip to an Aqua UI-type UI when plugged into HW with a keyboard and trackpad/mouse.
It's not hard to imagine. People who use their iPad for significant amounts of email or text work probably spend more time on the soft keypad than in the UI. Picture a MBA format. The screen part is an iPad - essentially unmodified. The keyboard part is a standard hardware keyboard.
You would still interface with the system by touching the screen to launch apps, but inside the app, you'd mostly use the keyboard (although you could still use the iPad screen to select items and/or click on links. So, for example, you touch the email icon to launch Mail. You then create and type your message with the keypad.
That would work with almost no modifications to iOS or the iPad itself. However, to go one step further, if they could add touchpad functionality, it would allow you to navigate within the app from the touch pad, as well.
... as is most modern technology likely to see price drops.
You don't seem to understand. While one would normally expect existing electronics to drop in price, this is a situation in which all non-apple manufacturers are running scared.
How do we know this? It is because Apple is so great that every decision by every other manufacturer is based upon Apple's actions.
So Intel is giving discounts on CULV chips to companies using their ultrabook base design but Apple, the company that buys a great many of these expensive CULV chips isn't get this discount?
Intel isn't treating Apple as well! That is not FAIR!
They probably do get a good deal as one of their larger customers. But still, that's because of sales numbers. But, if these companies are getting an additional $100, because they're concerned about low sales, then Apple should demand the $100 as well. I would.
And Intel would oblige, given that Apple moves enough product to justify it. Of course, I think Apple knows that and got a better deal that other vendors to start with. I can't prove that, but Apple doesn't enter into negotiations without understanding its leverage. And I think they knew the redesigned Air would be a hit.
Intel isn't treating Apple as well! That is not FAIR!
Why don't you add Intel to your enemies list?
Everything is compared to Apple in an attempt to justify NOT buying Apple.
It is Apple vs. the world. We are on the side of what is good and right. Everyone else is Google\\Microsoft\\Evil.
If they buy a PC, they make excuses in an attempt to justify NOT buying Apple. If they buy an Android phone, they make excuses in an attempt to justify NOT buying Apple.
They have no good reasons; they all hate Apple. We need to keep fighting for what is good and pure and right.
How does that work? If it ha a keyboard and trackpad it's no longer an iPad and it no longer can use iOS without iOS being drastically altered. I don't see anything like that happening. The closest would seem to be a Motorola Atrix-like device (using this as example even though dual-UIs is not a new concept) that would use iOS as a touch-based device and then flip to an Aqua UI-type UI when plugged into HW with a keyboard and trackpad/mouse.
Have you played with the Asus Transformer? The new one, the Transformer Prime, is reviewed to be even better than the original.
If Apple comes out with something like it soon, they can claim to have invented the concept. Or popularizing the concept. Or at least, taking the concept and making it better. But nobody knows better, so it will be an Apple thing and everybody will copy Apple.
Have you played with the Asus Transformer? The new one, the Transformer Prime, is reviewed to be even better than the original.
If Apple comes out with something like it soon, they can claim to have invented the concept.
1) Nope, haven't seen a Transformer Prime, but it looks nice. Asus has nice, original designs.
2) I use the Atrix as the example because the UI changes. All the Transformers seem to do is re-add the mouse cursor functionality in Android. I have trouble seeing Apple doing that on iOS, but that's beside the point, I was pointing out that Apple's use of the same kernel for iOS and Mac OS could mean a dual UI system that could easily trounce the competition, but both currently work great. No need to reinvent the wheel if they go that route (which I doubt).
3) You had a nice post and then you had to add your last sentence? You know that makes you sound right? Apple gets credit not for being the first, but for being the first to go all in with a refined technology. This is why they succeed and why so many aren't aware that a tech exists until Apple get onboard with it.
If Intel is subsidizing other OEMs to destroy Apple, they deserve to lose.
No, no. Intel would never 'destroy' a customer. AMD, yes, but not a customer.
1) Nope, haven't seen a Transformer Prime, but it looks nice. Asus has nice, original designs.
I don't think the Prime has hit the shelves yet, but I was playing with an original at Best Buy the other day. A salesman wandered by and was telling me all about how much he loved it, to the point that I was wondering if he got a spiff for selling them.
But the machine looked very nice, and the keyboard option was well-integrated. I liked the idea that it could be removed completely. Likely the keyboard would reside on a desk at home, but snapped on when taking the tablet out somewhere. The big question in my mind was whether the tablet would be fast enough to be a satisfying laptop. The new one will have the Tegra 3 chip, with 4 fast cores and a 5th low-power core.
Battery life is supposed to be exceptionally long with the keyboard attached, because it incorporates a second battery. Nice.
I have another question about which version of Android it would come out with - unless ICS is available, I don't see the point of even considering the Transformer.