I seriously doubt such a statement is required by law.
I didn't say required by law. For example, this statement gives Apple the right to refuse sale to people who buy lots of iPhones for sale in the gray market. If they suspect someone is buying too many iPhones they can ask for personal information and they can log his/her information in their system.
Bollocks, anyone can get service without a credit check.
The credit check is for the service plan as someone else already mentioned. AT&T checks your credit and if it is no good they require a deposit which is refundable at the end of the contract, provided you make all your payments.
The credit check is for the service plan as someone else already mentioned. AT&T checks your credit and if it is no good they require a deposit which is refundable at the end of the contract, provided you make all your payments.
A service plan was neither mentioned in the post that I answered, not suggested by the general topic of the thread, nor has it anything to do with Apple selling unlocked phones without subscription.
I am more inclined to accept NasserAE's explanation that the wording allows Apple to react in case of suspected shady behavior of the customers. It is also possible that Apple offers payment in installments, in which case they need to know the history of the buyer whom they are crediting.
Whats really angering me is that my 3GS whose contract is now up,will not be unlocked by AT&T.My contract is up I met my obligation any other phone they'll unlock it except iPhone.Hopefully this will change and/or forced to do so by the FCC.
Please sign the petition as you are not the only one upset by this. We paid our dues over 2 years and they should unlock the phone like every other phone in existence.
Am I being overly cheap by thinking that's way to expensive for a phone I'll use for maybe 2 years tops before I upgrade to the next best thing that they put out? I think they could make a good amount of money if they sell them at price points that are more aligned with their cost plus a price point, not a (guessing) 300 - 400% markup.
Yes..you are lucky carriers subsidy most of the cost here in the US so you can pay only $199..in Europe you pay full price which comes about $900-1,200 depending on model. Obviously, the monthly cost of the service over there is a fraction of what we pay here.
Please sign the petition as you are not the only one upset by this. We paid our dues over 2 years and they should unlock the phone like every other phone in existence.
Online petitions do absolutely nothing. Just unlock it yourself. You're not under warranty. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Am I being overly cheap by thinking that's way to expensive for a phone I'll use for maybe 2 years tops before I upgrade to the next best thing that they put out? I think they could make a good amount of money if they sell them at price points that are more aligned with their cost plus a price point, not a (guessing) 300 - 400% markup.
A basically unlimited plan on ATT runs $135/month. A better plan on T-Mobile runs $90/month including $10/month for an excellent international calling plan, something ATT does not offer. The price difference between a subsidized and an unlocked 32 gig iphone is $450. Basically in 10 months you pay it off.
For those of us who do a lot of overseas travel, its really nice. I hated having to drag out the old unlocked cheapo every time I traveled (a lot) and drag a Touch along with me for info. Plus TMO's international plan has value for people like me who split our time between the US and Europe.
The downside is EDGE versus 3G. However, where I am in South Florida and all the way up the coast to the eastern shore of Maryland (about half the time by boat) I have much better coverage with TMO. I've been on the road and on a boat all the way up (or down) many times and all the ATT folks are frequently dead while my phone almost always has a signal. Given the weak 3G signals, a decent EDGE signal is fine for me.
Its not for everyone, but there's more than enough people like my wife and I where it makes sense. I also don't change phones often. I had a carrier unlocked 3G until a few weeks ago when I ordered an unlocked 4s for my wife (been able to order in Switzerland for about a month now, not that they're being shipped).
Why would an unlocked version of the iPhone 4S only work on GSM networks and not on CDMA networks? This seems to be a carrier decision (i.e., Verizon and Sprint disallowing unlocked phones on their networks without a two-year contract), rather than a technical matter. The unlocked version of the iPhone 4S has the same Quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE + Dual-band CDMA/EV-DO Rev support (World phone) as the locked (contract) iPhone 4S, doesn't it?
Screw the big, overpriced carriers, especially Verizon and AT&T. You can buy a refurbished Nokia e71 from StraightTalk.com for $99, remove its SIM card and insert the e71's SIM in an unlocked iPhone. Then, you get unlimited voice, data and text messaging for $45 per month for your iPhone. StraightTalk uses the AT&T network, and you get AT&T's HSPA+ data speeds. You might bump up against a carrier's police if you exceed maybe 5 GB (upper limit unknown) data usage per month, but most people won't have that problem. Other smaller carriers that piggyback on the big carriers may well work the same (YMMV).
Yes..you are lucky carriers subsidy most of the cost here in the US so you can pay only $199..in Europe you pay full price which comes about $900-1,200 depending on model. Obviously, the monthly cost of the service over there is a fraction of what we pay here.
Not sure where you are daylove but with Swiss carriers the subsidized iPhone is cheaper than in the US (though it varies depending on the plan) and the plan costs are lower, in Italy and the UK, the plans are so dirt cheap the unlocked iPhone is a no brainer (relative to the US). I've had iPhone experience in these three countries and from what I hear from travelers, much of Europe is a better deal than the USA for iPhone buyers, subsidized or unsubsidized. Plus, if you take a subsidized phone, at the end of the contract period its unlocked. While I'm sure there are some providers that won't unlock (no idea who they might be but France is probably a good candidate), you simply avoid them.
We've been through 3 iPhones so far, all purchased in Switzerland, all either carrier unlocked or, now, an unlocked 4s (once it arrives) and the total package cost has been a fraction of what we would have paid with ATT in the USA where we spend the bulk of our time. We use prepaid with monthly data plans in Europe and have TMO contracts in the USA.
My feelings are quite the opposite of yours, I would not call being sucked into an uncompetitive purchase with a phone that remains locked to ATT forever, lucky.
Online petitions do absolutely nothing. Just unlock it yourself. You're not under warranty. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Maybe you're right. But the least we can do is get the word out. Imagine how long this will go on for if nobody does anything? At the very least, we are planting the seeds of awareness that locking a world phone to a US carrier is just plain wrong.
And I don't like jailbreaking my phones as they always get buggy and I have to go through so much crap to update. Preserving basebands and all that? Seriously it's not fun. I would rather just update it without waiting for a new version of ultrasnow, and so would everybody else in America.
you have to un-jailbreak when you install IOS updates.
Untrue. You can install right on top of a jailbroken version.
But we're still talking about the first-gen, right? The same hardware as my phone, right?
There won't be any more software updates for the first-gen. This is completely a non-issue. Install 3.1.3, jailbreak it, flash the baseband, and poof; you're done forever.
I haven't touched my iPhone's software since I installed unlocked, slimmed down 4.2 on it. That was right after 4.2 came out about a year ago. Before that, I hadn't touched it since I installed unlocked 3.1.3 on it. I'll never have to touch it again.
I need the US number to ring even when I'm roaming abroad, but I also need an in country number to facilitate communication locally in the foreign country. Ideally I would like to have only one phone but since I need both sims to work simultaneously I have to carry two phones.
I suppose I could sell my i4 and buy a cheap unlocked dumb phone and an unlocked i4S and just use the dumb phone to receive US calls when abroad. Then switch the sim back to the i4S when I return. But I think I would rather have two iPhones.
while this might sound like blasphemmy on this site, maybe for your unique requirements, what you need is a good dual-sim phone? They are usually not very costly, and some decent companies like nokia do make them. You can then have a single phone with two sims, and receive and make calls on either one.
I am not a troll, and I love apple products, but you know what it is needs are bit****. \
Why would an unlocked version of the iPhone 4S only work on GSM networks and not on CDMA networks? This seems to be a carrier decision (i.e., Verizon and Sprint disallowing unlocked phones on their networks without a two-year contract), rather than a technical matter. The unlocked version of the iPhone 4S has the same Quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE + Dual-band CDMA/EV-DO Rev support (World phone) as the locked (contract) iPhone 4S, doesn't it?
CDMA unlocking is not really possible, and unlocking is pretty much one of the prime features of GSM.
The European iPhone which is unlocked has the CDMA part completely disabled, but no one cares since CDMA networks are illegal here.
Technically the iPhone 4 was also a "world phone", by adding CDMA they added 0 countries to the list of countries you can roam, since there is no GSM to CDMA roaming, and CDMA to GSM roaming requires a sim card with another number anyway
Apple will always prefer GSM, it's worth more to them, and it's why on my 4S my 3G is 12Mbps as we speak
The day after every iPhone release since 2007, I have walked into an AT&T store and told them that I will buy three iPhones RIGHT NOW if I can have a family plan with no data and with data blocked to and from each of the devices.
I have been turned down every time.
They want to lose my money, that's fine. I've yet to ask Verizon about the iPhone 4 or 4S, and there's no Sprint coverage at all where I live, so they're out of the question. And I'm also not too partial to hitching my wagon to a company that'll be bankrupt soon.
That sucks man. So they even require one when unlocked/not under contract? I thought it would only have been required while under contract due to the heavily subsidized phone price.
Only I have data on my phone. She does not. AT&T is fine with it. If you don't buy a data plan ... you just don't have data.
But what is the use of a smartphone without a data plan? You'll be limited to SMS/MMS and WiFi, and all apps that need an internet connection will be rendered useless. I'm missing something here...
It's like walking around with a dumbphone, an iPod touch and a point-and-shoot digital camera, minus two devices. (Technically the iPod touch has a camera, but it's not very good.)
Some people are perfectly fine not having cellular data.
The point here is that your individual usage case isn't the only one. You must accept the fact that some people have different needs from their mobile devices than your needs.
But what is the use of a smartphone without a data plan?
I have absolutely no need for cellular data, as I'd have Wi-Fi access anywhere I'd need data, and I can't afford wasting $30 a month for 2GB (968x the price of Internet access to my home). Because it would be a waste.
Siri's the only thing I'd probably miss in places without Wi-Fi, but they're few and far between.
Quote:
You'll be limited to SMS/MMS and WiFi
As I… don't currently actually use my iPhone as a phone, is there something in the first half of this quote that isn't possible on Wi-Fi? The only thing I can think of is iMessage, but that works fine on Wi-Fi.
Or do you just mean that you're not able to surf, get maps/stocks/weather, or do any of the general data stuff that cellular data affords?
Because I'm fine with that.
Quote:
and all apps that need an internet connection will be rendered useless.
Unless you're on Wi-Fi, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831
It's like walking around with a dumbphone, an iPod touch and a point-and-shoot digital camera, minus two devices. (Technically the iPod touch has a camera, but it's not very good.)
Right now I carry my real phone in my left pocket and my iPhone in my right. Done that for four and a half years now, and with the same dumbphone, too! Little thing's a tank; it takes all sorts of punishment.
If they won't sell me an iPhone with data blocked, they can pry my LG VX5300 out of my cold, dead, hands. Or when they shut CDMA off and I'm forced to get a different phone.
A basically unlimited plan on ATT runs $135/month. A better plan on T-Mobile runs $90/month including $10/month for an excellent international calling plan, something ATT does not offer. The price difference between a subsidized and an unlocked 32 gig iphone is $450. Basically in 10 months you pay it off.
Basically unlimited service on Straight Talk runs $45/month, no contract. If you prepay three or six months of service, this hovers just above $42/month. Straight Talk is a brand of TracFone which is a wireless MVNO here in the USA. They use the AT&T and Sprint networks (depending on which handset you buy; to repurpose Straight Talk for use with an iPhone, you would need to acquire a Straight Talk phone that uses AT&T).
You'll have to eat the cost of a refurbished Nokia E71 ($100) to get the right Straight Talk SIM, but people are doing this. The break-even point is seven or eight months.
That said, I personally abandoned the idea of using Straight Talk unlimited service for my unlocked iPhone. AT&T GoPhone Pay As You Go service is quite sufficient for my admittedly paltry needs.
Straight Talk doesn't seem to offer international plans, but I use Google Voice anyhow (and GV's international rates are *cheap*).
Comments
I seriously doubt such a statement is required by law.
I didn't say required by law. For example, this statement gives Apple the right to refuse sale to people who buy lots of iPhones for sale in the gray market. If they suspect someone is buying too many iPhones they can ask for personal information and they can log his/her information in their system.
Bollocks, anyone can get service without a credit check.
The credit check is for the service plan as someone else already mentioned. AT&T checks your credit and if it is no good they require a deposit which is refundable at the end of the contract, provided you make all your payments.
The credit check is for the service plan as someone else already mentioned. AT&T checks your credit and if it is no good they require a deposit which is refundable at the end of the contract, provided you make all your payments.
A service plan was neither mentioned in the post that I answered, not suggested by the general topic of the thread, nor has it anything to do with Apple selling unlocked phones without subscription.
I am more inclined to accept NasserAE's explanation that the wording allows Apple to react in case of suspected shady behavior of the customers. It is also possible that Apple offers payment in installments, in which case they need to know the history of the buyer whom they are crediting.
Whats really angering me is that my 3GS whose contract is now up,will not be unlocked by AT&T.My contract is up I met my obligation any other phone they'll unlock it except iPhone.Hopefully this will change and/or forced to do so by the FCC.
Please sign the petition as you are not the only one upset by this. We paid our dues over 2 years and they should unlock the phone like every other phone in existence.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/iphone2g/
Am I being overly cheap by thinking that's way to expensive for a phone I'll use for maybe 2 years tops before I upgrade to the next best thing that they put out? I think they could make a good amount of money if they sell them at price points that are more aligned with their cost plus a price point, not a (guessing) 300 - 400% markup.
Yes..you are lucky carriers subsidy most of the cost here in the US so you can pay only $199..in Europe you pay full price which comes about $900-1,200 depending on model. Obviously, the monthly cost of the service over there is a fraction of what we pay here.
Please sign the petition as you are not the only one upset by this. We paid our dues over 2 years and they should unlock the phone like every other phone in existence.
Online petitions do absolutely nothing. Just unlock it yourself. You're not under warranty. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Am I being overly cheap by thinking that's way to expensive for a phone I'll use for maybe 2 years tops before I upgrade to the next best thing that they put out? I think they could make a good amount of money if they sell them at price points that are more aligned with their cost plus a price point, not a (guessing) 300 - 400% markup.
A basically unlimited plan on ATT runs $135/month. A better plan on T-Mobile runs $90/month including $10/month for an excellent international calling plan, something ATT does not offer. The price difference between a subsidized and an unlocked 32 gig iphone is $450. Basically in 10 months you pay it off.
For those of us who do a lot of overseas travel, its really nice. I hated having to drag out the old unlocked cheapo every time I traveled (a lot) and drag a Touch along with me for info. Plus TMO's international plan has value for people like me who split our time between the US and Europe.
The downside is EDGE versus 3G. However, where I am in South Florida and all the way up the coast to the eastern shore of Maryland (about half the time by boat) I have much better coverage with TMO. I've been on the road and on a boat all the way up (or down) many times and all the ATT folks are frequently dead while my phone almost always has a signal. Given the weak 3G signals, a decent EDGE signal is fine for me.
Its not for everyone, but there's more than enough people like my wife and I where it makes sense. I also don't change phones often. I had a carrier unlocked 3G until a few weeks ago when I ordered an unlocked 4s for my wife (been able to order in Switzerland for about a month now, not that they're being shipped).
Screw the big, overpriced carriers, especially Verizon and AT&T. You can buy a refurbished Nokia e71 from StraightTalk.com for $99, remove its SIM card and insert the e71's SIM in an unlocked iPhone. Then, you get unlimited voice, data and text messaging for $45 per month for your iPhone. StraightTalk uses the AT&T network, and you get AT&T's HSPA+ data speeds. You might bump up against a carrier's police if you exceed maybe 5 GB (upper limit unknown) data usage per month, but most people won't have that problem. Other smaller carriers that piggyback on the big carriers may well work the same (YMMV).
Yes..you are lucky carriers subsidy most of the cost here in the US so you can pay only $199..in Europe you pay full price which comes about $900-1,200 depending on model. Obviously, the monthly cost of the service over there is a fraction of what we pay here.
Not sure where you are daylove but with Swiss carriers the subsidized iPhone is cheaper than in the US (though it varies depending on the plan) and the plan costs are lower, in Italy and the UK, the plans are so dirt cheap the unlocked iPhone is a no brainer (relative to the US). I've had iPhone experience in these three countries and from what I hear from travelers, much of Europe is a better deal than the USA for iPhone buyers, subsidized or unsubsidized. Plus, if you take a subsidized phone, at the end of the contract period its unlocked. While I'm sure there are some providers that won't unlock (no idea who they might be but France is probably a good candidate), you simply avoid them.
We've been through 3 iPhones so far, all purchased in Switzerland, all either carrier unlocked or, now, an unlocked 4s (once it arrives) and the total package cost has been a fraction of what we would have paid with ATT in the USA where we spend the bulk of our time. We use prepaid with monthly data plans in Europe and have TMO contracts in the USA.
My feelings are quite the opposite of yours, I would not call being sucked into an uncompetitive purchase with a phone that remains locked to ATT forever, lucky.
Online petitions do absolutely nothing. Just unlock it yourself. You're not under warranty. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Maybe you're right. But the least we can do is get the word out. Imagine how long this will go on for if nobody does anything? At the very least, we are planting the seeds of awareness that locking a world phone to a US carrier is just plain wrong.
And I don't like jailbreaking my phones as they always get buggy and I have to go through so much crap to update. Preserving basebands and all that? Seriously it's not fun. I would rather just update it without waiting for a new version of ultrasnow, and so would everybody else in America.
Online petitions do absolutely nothing. Just unlock it yourself. You're not under warranty. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
The problem with unlocking "myself" is that I have to jailbreak to unlock.
And the problem with jailbreak is that I have to un-jailbreak while installing IOS updates. Then re-jailbreak again.
Between unjailbreaking and rejailbreaking my wireless service (the reason the phone was unlocked in the first place) won't be obviously available.
This is just way to much hassle.
What I don't get is why there is still no class action against AT&T.
you have to un-jailbreak when you install IOS updates.
Untrue. You can install right on top of a jailbroken version.
But we're still talking about the first-gen, right? The same hardware as my phone, right?
There won't be any more software updates for the first-gen. This is completely a non-issue. Install 3.1.3, jailbreak it, flash the baseband, and poof; you're done forever.
I haven't touched my iPhone's software since I installed unlocked, slimmed down 4.2 on it. That was right after 4.2 came out about a year ago. Before that, I hadn't touched it since I installed unlocked 3.1.3 on it. I'll never have to touch it again.
I need the US number to ring even when I'm roaming abroad, but I also need an in country number to facilitate communication locally in the foreign country. Ideally I would like to have only one phone but since I need both sims to work simultaneously I have to carry two phones.
I suppose I could sell my i4 and buy a cheap unlocked dumb phone and an unlocked i4S and just use the dumb phone to receive US calls when abroad. Then switch the sim back to the i4S when I return. But I think I would rather have two iPhones.
while this might sound like blasphemmy on this site, maybe for your unique requirements, what you need is a good dual-sim phone? They are usually not very costly, and some decent companies like nokia do make them. You can then have a single phone with two sims, and receive and make calls on either one.
I am not a troll, and I love apple products, but you know what it is needs are bit****.
Why would an unlocked version of the iPhone 4S only work on GSM networks and not on CDMA networks? This seems to be a carrier decision (i.e., Verizon and Sprint disallowing unlocked phones on their networks without a two-year contract), rather than a technical matter. The unlocked version of the iPhone 4S has the same Quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE + Dual-band CDMA/EV-DO Rev support (World phone) as the locked (contract) iPhone 4S, doesn't it?
CDMA unlocking is not really possible, and unlocking is pretty much one of the prime features of GSM.
The European iPhone which is unlocked has the CDMA part completely disabled, but no one cares since CDMA networks are illegal here.
Technically the iPhone 4 was also a "world phone", by adding CDMA they added 0 countries to the list of countries you can roam, since there is no GSM to CDMA roaming, and CDMA to GSM roaming requires a sim card with another number anyway
Apple will always prefer GSM, it's worth more to them, and it's why on my 4S my 3G is 12Mbps as we speak
Lucky dog.
The day after every iPhone release since 2007, I have walked into an AT&T store and told them that I will buy three iPhones RIGHT NOW if I can have a family plan with no data and with data blocked to and from each of the devices.
I have been turned down every time.
They want to lose my money, that's fine. I've yet to ask Verizon about the iPhone 4 or 4S, and there's no Sprint coverage at all where I live, so they're out of the question. And I'm also not too partial to hitching my wagon to a company that'll be bankrupt soon.
That sucks man. So they even require one when unlocked/not under contract? I thought it would only have been required while under contract due to the heavily subsidized phone price.
Only I have data on my phone. She does not. AT&T is fine with it. If you don't buy a data plan ... you just don't have data.
But what is the use of a smartphone without a data plan? You'll be limited to SMS/MMS and WiFi, and all apps that need an internet connection will be rendered useless. I'm missing something here...
Some people are perfectly fine not having cellular data.
The point here is that your individual usage case isn't the only one. You must accept the fact that some people have different needs from their mobile devices than your needs.
But what is the use of a smartphone without a data plan?
I have absolutely no need for cellular data, as I'd have Wi-Fi access anywhere I'd need data, and I can't afford wasting $30 a month for 2GB (968x the price of Internet access to my home). Because it would be a waste.
Siri's the only thing I'd probably miss in places without Wi-Fi, but they're few and far between.
You'll be limited to SMS/MMS and WiFi
As I… don't currently actually use my iPhone as a phone, is there something in the first half of this quote that isn't possible on Wi-Fi? The only thing I can think of is iMessage, but that works fine on Wi-Fi.
Or do you just mean that you're not able to surf, get maps/stocks/weather, or do any of the general data stuff that cellular data affords?
Because I'm fine with that.
and all apps that need an internet connection will be rendered useless.
Unless you're on Wi-Fi, of course.
It's like walking around with a dumbphone, an iPod touch and a point-and-shoot digital camera, minus two devices. (Technically the iPod touch has a camera, but it's not very good.)
Right now I carry my real phone in my left pocket and my iPhone in my right. Done that for four and a half years now, and with the same dumbphone, too! Little thing's a tank; it takes all sorts of punishment.
If they won't sell me an iPhone with data blocked, they can pry my LG VX5300 out of my cold, dead, hands. Or when they shut CDMA off and I'm forced to get a different phone.
A basically unlimited plan on ATT runs $135/month. A better plan on T-Mobile runs $90/month including $10/month for an excellent international calling plan, something ATT does not offer. The price difference between a subsidized and an unlocked 32 gig iphone is $450. Basically in 10 months you pay it off.
Basically unlimited service on Straight Talk runs $45/month, no contract. If you prepay three or six months of service, this hovers just above $42/month. Straight Talk is a brand of TracFone which is a wireless MVNO here in the USA. They use the AT&T and Sprint networks (depending on which handset you buy; to repurpose Straight Talk for use with an iPhone, you would need to acquire a Straight Talk phone that uses AT&T).
You'll have to eat the cost of a refurbished Nokia E71 ($100) to get the right Straight Talk SIM, but people are doing this. The break-even point is seven or eight months.
That said, I personally abandoned the idea of using Straight Talk unlimited service for my unlocked iPhone. AT&T GoPhone Pay As You Go service is quite sufficient for my admittedly paltry needs.
Straight Talk doesn't seem to offer international plans, but I use Google Voice anyhow (and GV's international rates are *cheap*).