While this is a nice step toward fractional "made in the USA", it's creating jobs here, but still sending money out of the country. Why is it that an Asian company can figure out how to manufacture here but American companies cannot?
While this is a nice step toward fractional "made in the USA", it's creating jobs here, but still sending money out of the country. Why is it that an Asian company can figure out how to manufacture here but American companies cannot?
That one is actually pretty simple. There are shipping, tax, and import duty incentives for foreign firms to build here just as there are for Apple in other countries. The difference comes not in parts but in assembly which can be done more cheaply in low-wage countries like China and Brazil.
Chip manufacture on the other hand is skill and capital intensive. Foreign companies can take advantage of highly skilled workers and engineers experienced in building an operating fabs. Also Intel does fab here.
It seems that the geek world is constantly wanting more processing power, faster speeds, more Ram, better GPU. But all this comes at a price ... it all takes more power, and battery life falls off quickly. In the mobile world, battery life is a major issue.
Or, we could just be speculating if they were actually going to stick the A5 in the iPad 3.
Or, Apple themselves pimp out their processor making it seem that the latest and greatest is important.
You write like a Jerry Lewis telethon poster child for the GOP.
Low Taxes do not == business investment.
The US is at an historical low in Business Taxes going back 50+ years and we also are at a low in domestic business investment.
Non-linear dynamic market analysis where bifurcations occur through the advent of exploiting 3rd world nations economic weaknesses occurs irrespective of the tax levels for businesses in a mature, economically strong world power.
I disagree, I think it's a centrist position that taxes effect business investment.
The PWC/World Bank "Paying Taxes" report (which is a straight shooting, by the numbers, report they do every year) shows the US currently at ranks 131 in the world according to their methodology (which adds tax rate to compliance time taken). It is the relative position in the world that businesses take in to account when deciding where to invest, not the historical rates.
The ranking table is on page 124, and their references as to why taxes effect business investment is on pages 11 and 12.
"Research looking at multinational firms? decisions on where to invest suggests that a one percentage point increase in the statutory corporate income tax rate would reduce the local profits from existing investment by 1.3% on average. A one percentage point increase in the effective corporate income tax rate reduces the likelihood of establishing a subsidiary in an economy by 2.9%."
It seems that the geek world is constantly wanting more processing power, faster speeds, more Ram, better GPU. But all this comes at a price ... it all takes more power, and battery life falls off quickly. In the mobile world, battery life is a major issue.
My opinion is that the quad core of A6 has merit on a small die size as that is also power saving. Also 4s is being hyped at 200 million ... that's lots of A5 chips. iPad2 is not going to go away anytime soon either. The future is in software and SIRI ... just watch and wait
You realize that going to quadcore will increase die size by a ton, right? And Siri doesn't even need the A5 processor. Much less a quadcore.
One thing was true though - the future is in software.
How long till A5 clones start showing up in Samsung products?
Interesting business plan, that. But logically shouldn't we see some A4 clones first, considering how Samsung has manufactured A4s and A5s from the start? They are mighty slow with this "cloning" thing.
Then there's the little issue that Samsung's own Exynos SOCs are stronger, more efficient, and have a better CPU/GPU balance for running Android than the A5 does. But hey, maybe if Samsung's dog eats the blueprints for the last two Exynos models and the next-gen part projected for mid-2012, cloning the A5 would come in handy so they could at least produce some midrange phones while re-inventing the high end stuff.
You realize that going to quadcore will increase die size by a ton, right? And Siri doesn't even need the A5 processor. Much less a quadcore.
One thing was true though - the future is in software.
The A5 is built on a 45nm process. The Tegra 3 is built on a 40nm process. The A9 and A15 are both using a 32nm process. Going from 45nm to 32nm will save a ton of space and you can probably put 4 cores in the same space as you had dual in before.
Why can't Apple outsource the chip production to a US based company like IBM or Intel? After all Samsung is building the chips in the US anyway. Allowing Samsung to build proprietary chips just gives them an insight into Apple's technology, IPRs, etc. Samsung is more than willing to rip off Apple's tech as we have seen.
Doing biz with Samsung even with commodity products allowed them to achieve economies of scale with Apple as a customer. Then Samsung can produce components for its pirated products at a minimal incremental cost.
Need multiple suppliers diversified geographically and politically. Same with assembly.
I thought Taiwan's TSMC won the chip contract for the next-generation A6 chips. Wonder how that is going?
Then there's the little issue that Samsung's own Exynos SOCs are stronger, more efficient, and have a better CPU/GPU balance for running Android than the A5 does.
Very interesting, but also very wrong. Check some benchmarks. The 4S (which is powered by the A5) blows the Exynos 4210 (powering the Galaxy S 2) out of the water.
Very interesting, but also very wrong. Check some benchmarks. The 4S (which is powered by the A5) blows the Exynos 4210 (powering the Galaxy S 2) out of the water.
1) It's staggering that these Android-based devices can have 50% more processing clock speed with the same architecture and yet still not best the iPhone much less be even close to 50% faster.
2) I'm guessing Apple's investment in ImgTech is giving them a lot of pull because even nearly a year later they are using much inferior GPUs, something that Android really has needed for their UI.
3) One thing that doesn't get mentioned because it's complex and isn't mentionable on a consumer spec sheet is RAM type and channel width. The iPhone 4S seems to have stepped this up over the 4, but I haven't read of other smartphones upping thier game on the system.
1) It's staggering that these Android-based devices can have 50% more processing clock speed with the same architecture and yet still not best the iPhone much less be even close to 50% faster.
2) I'm guessing Apple's investment in ImgTech is giving them a lot of pull because even nearly a year later they are using much inferior GPUs, something that Android really has needed for their UI.
3) One thing that doesn't get mentioned because it's complex and isn't mentionable on a consumer spec sheet is RAM type and channel width. The iPhone 4S seems to have stepped this up over the 4, but I haven't read of other smartphones upping thier game on the system.
I'm waiting for an Android supporter to mention that until ICS hits the phones, Android won't make use of more than 1 core. Of course, what marginal fraction of current phones can even upgrade to ICS if you root them due to requirements and what even smaller portion of phones will get OTA updates to it?
I'm waiting for an Android supporter to mention that until ICS hits the phones, Android won't make use of more than 1 core. Of course, what marginal fraction of current phones can even upgrade to ICS if you root them due to requirements and what even smaller portion of phones will get OTA updates to it?
The Nexus S released last year starts getting ICS today. That's much sooner than I expected considering the timeframes other vendors have stated.
Texas provided Samsung essentially 233 million worth of public incentives that other american based businesses are not getting. For that 233 million worth of incentives, Texas has said, but is not obligated, to bring about a 1000 jobs to Texas. This represents about 50 million worth of wages a year to Texas. However, individual or corporate wages are not taxed in Texas. So essentially Texas paid Samsung about 233 million to move to Texas, and will never recoup the money. Smart. Not.
While this is a nice step toward fractional "made in the USA", it's creating jobs here, but still sending money out of the country. Why is it that an Asian company can figure out how to manufacture here but American companies cannot?
Few American companies manufacture overseas either. They hire other companies like Samsung or Foxconn to manufacture. This includes Apple. Foreign companies also have an advantage over American manufactures already here because they often can talk local governments into paying for the building of the facilities like Samsung did here. In a place like Texas, I doubt the government ever sees any of the public money back.
The US could motivate more manufacturing here without local taxpayers subsidizing the building of the facilities simply by doing away with the so called Free Trade Agreements, which really aren't free.
At least something is BUILT in America, by no other than Samsung.
Which has had its manufacturing plant at Austin since 1996 ( for 15 years ).
Hey Apple, learn a few things from Samsung.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo
While this is a nice step toward fractional "made in the USA", it's creating jobs here, but still sending money out of the country. Why is it that an Asian company can figure out how to manufacture here but American companies cannot?
Because American companies are greedy.
Samsung built this plant WAY back in 1996 ( 15 years ago) even before all this craze about "smartphones".
They could've built it anywhere in the world. But why choose the highest wage paying nation (USA) to build its sprawling manufacturing plant in Austin, Texas just shows how much faith a Korean company has in the US economy.
Obviously, companies like Apple (greedy) dont have much faith in the US economy, enough to outsource ALL of its manufacturing to foreign countries (COMMUNIST COUNTRIES no less) with one of the lowest paying wage jobs around.
It's called corporate citizenship, building things in the places where you sell them; something that Apple certainly lacks.
American companies should be ashamed how "foreign" companies are helping the growth of US GDP by building plants in the US while they are busy sending off jobs to distant foreign countries and in turn building up THEIR GDP; all in the name of cutting costs and improving their own bottom line (greedy).
"Buy American" right? Right?
As an UT Austin grad, I have many friends who work at that plant. Its a huge part of the Austin economy and was big news back when they started building the plant and speculating how much it would contribute to Austin's economy. There are many joint research programs with Samsung in the engineering building at school and an extensive internship program at the plant. Almost half of the graduating EE majors applied for positions there at the plant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Texas provided Samsung essentially 233 million worth of public incentives that other american based businesses are not getting. For that 233 million worth of incentives, Texas has said, but is not obligated, to bring about a 1000 jobs to Texas. This represents about 50 million worth of wages a year to Texas. However, individual or corporate wages are not taxed in Texas. So essentially Texas paid Samsung about 233 million to move to Texas, and will never recoup the money. Smart. Not.
Austin has recouped all of its payments in the past 10 years.
What has Apple done for Austin? Just that customer service center.
Are you trying to say any investment in Texas is a bad investment? Any investment in USA is a bad investment?
Come to Texas and see for yourself how much this plant has contributed to the local economy.
Very interesting, but also very wrong. Check some benchmarks. The 4S (which is powered by the A5) blows the Exynos 4210 (powering the Galaxy S 2) out of the water.
Nope. That's a GPU benchmark and largely irrelevant as Android doesn't care much about the GPU. The 4210's Mali-400, being the second fastest currently deployed mobile GPU, is more than enough for Samsung's purposes. Far as I know, 4210 slightly bests the A5 on integer workloads. The die-shrunk 4212, on the other hand, is a large iterative improvement in both performance and efficiency over 4210 / A5 class of parts and is ready to go now. The 2012 part goes to A15 core and packs a lot of GPU so it's a huge jump forward and apparently primarily a tablet chip.
Comments
Errr.....
Intel manufacture in India.
IBM... do they still make stuff? If they do it'll be in China or Korea.
Google "IBM Fishkill" for some reality.
While this is a nice step toward fractional "made in the USA", it's creating jobs here, but still sending money out of the country. Why is it that an Asian company can figure out how to manufacture here but American companies cannot?
That one is actually pretty simple. There are shipping, tax, and import duty incentives for foreign firms to build here just as there are for Apple in other countries. The difference comes not in parts but in assembly which can be done more cheaply in low-wage countries like China and Brazil.
Chip manufacture on the other hand is skill and capital intensive. Foreign companies can take advantage of highly skilled workers and engineers experienced in building an operating fabs. Also Intel does fab here.
It seems that the geek world is constantly wanting more processing power, faster speeds, more Ram, better GPU. But all this comes at a price ... it all takes more power, and battery life falls off quickly. In the mobile world, battery life is a major issue.
Or, we could just be speculating if they were actually going to stick the A5 in the iPad 3.
Or, Apple themselves pimp out their processor making it seem that the latest and greatest is important.
You write like a Jerry Lewis telethon poster child for the GOP.
Low Taxes do not == business investment.
The US is at an historical low in Business Taxes going back 50+ years and we also are at a low in domestic business investment.
Non-linear dynamic market analysis where bifurcations occur through the advent of exploiting 3rd world nations economic weaknesses occurs irrespective of the tax levels for businesses in a mature, economically strong world power.
I disagree, I think it's a centrist position that taxes effect business investment.
The PWC/World Bank "Paying Taxes" report (which is a straight shooting, by the numbers, report they do every year) shows the US currently at ranks 131 in the world according to their methodology (which adds tax rate to compliance time taken). It is the relative position in the world that businesses take in to account when deciding where to invest, not the historical rates.
The ranking table is on page 124, and their references as to why taxes effect business investment is on pages 11 and 12.
"Research looking at multinational firms? decisions on where to invest suggests that a one percentage point increase in the statutory corporate income tax rate would reduce the local profits from existing investment by 1.3% on average. A one percentage point increase in the effective corporate income tax rate reduces the likelihood of establishing a subsidiary in an economy by 2.9%."
http://www.doingbusiness.org/reports.../paying-taxes/
It seems that the geek world is constantly wanting more processing power, faster speeds, more Ram, better GPU. But all this comes at a price ... it all takes more power, and battery life falls off quickly. In the mobile world, battery life is a major issue.
My opinion is that the quad core of A6 has merit on a small die size as that is also power saving. Also 4s is being hyped at 200 million ... that's lots of A5 chips. iPad2 is not going to go away anytime soon either. The future is in software and SIRI ... just watch and wait
You realize that going to quadcore will increase die size by a ton, right? And Siri doesn't even need the A5 processor. Much less a quadcore.
One thing was true though - the future is in software.
How long till A5 clones start showing up in Samsung products?
Interesting business plan, that. But logically shouldn't we see some A4 clones first, considering how Samsung has manufactured A4s and A5s from the start? They are mighty slow with this "cloning" thing.
Then there's the little issue that Samsung's own Exynos SOCs are stronger, more efficient, and have a better CPU/GPU balance for running Android than the A5 does. But hey, maybe if Samsung's dog eats the blueprints for the last two Exynos models and the next-gen part projected for mid-2012, cloning the A5 would come in handy so they could at least produce some midrange phones while re-inventing the high end stuff.
You realize that going to quadcore will increase die size by a ton, right? And Siri doesn't even need the A5 processor. Much less a quadcore.
One thing was true though - the future is in software.
The A5 is built on a 45nm process. The Tegra 3 is built on a 40nm process. The A9 and A15 are both using a 32nm process. Going from 45nm to 32nm will save a ton of space and you can probably put 4 cores in the same space as you had dual in before.
Why can't Apple outsource the chip production to a US based company like IBM or Intel? After all Samsung is building the chips in the US anyway. Allowing Samsung to build proprietary chips just gives them an insight into Apple's technology, IPRs, etc. Samsung is more than willing to rip off Apple's tech as we have seen.
Doing biz with Samsung even with commodity products allowed them to achieve economies of scale with Apple as a customer. Then Samsung can produce components for its pirated products at a minimal incremental cost.
Need multiple suppliers diversified geographically and politically. Same with assembly.
I thought Taiwan's TSMC won the chip contract for the next-generation A6 chips. Wonder how that is going?
Then there's the little issue that Samsung's own Exynos SOCs are stronger, more efficient, and have a better CPU/GPU balance for running Android than the A5 does.
Very interesting, but also very wrong. Check some benchmarks. The 4S (which is powered by the A5) blows the Exynos 4210 (powering the Galaxy S 2) out of the water.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...i-droid-bionic
Very interesting, but also very wrong. Check some benchmarks. The 4S (which is powered by the A5) blows the Exynos 4210 (powering the Galaxy S 2) out of the water.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...i-droid-bionic
1) It's staggering that these Android-based devices can have 50% more processing clock speed with the same architecture and yet still not best the iPhone much less be even close to 50% faster.
2) I'm guessing Apple's investment in ImgTech is giving them a lot of pull because even nearly a year later they are using much inferior GPUs, something that Android really has needed for their UI.
3) One thing that doesn't get mentioned because it's complex and isn't mentionable on a consumer spec sheet is RAM type and channel width. The iPhone 4S seems to have stepped this up over the 4, but I haven't read of other smartphones upping thier game on the system.
1) It's staggering that these Android-based devices can have 50% more processing clock speed with the same architecture and yet still not best the iPhone much less be even close to 50% faster.
2) I'm guessing Apple's investment in ImgTech is giving them a lot of pull because even nearly a year later they are using much inferior GPUs, something that Android really has needed for their UI.
3) One thing that doesn't get mentioned because it's complex and isn't mentionable on a consumer spec sheet is RAM type and channel width. The iPhone 4S seems to have stepped this up over the 4, but I haven't read of other smartphones upping thier game on the system.
I'm waiting for an Android supporter to mention that until ICS hits the phones, Android won't make use of more than 1 core. Of course, what marginal fraction of current phones can even upgrade to ICS if you root them due to requirements and what even smaller portion of phones will get OTA updates to it?
I'm waiting for an Android supporter to mention that until ICS hits the phones, Android won't make use of more than 1 core. Of course, what marginal fraction of current phones can even upgrade to ICS if you root them due to requirements and what even smaller portion of phones will get OTA updates to it?
The Nexus S released last year starts getting ICS today. That's much sooner than I expected considering the timeframes other vendors have stated.
Small government = low taxes.
Low taxes = business investment (Samsung!).
Business investment = jobs.
Go Texas!
Texas provided Samsung essentially 233 million worth of public incentives that other american based businesses are not getting. For that 233 million worth of incentives, Texas has said, but is not obligated, to bring about a 1000 jobs to Texas. This represents about 50 million worth of wages a year to Texas. However, individual or corporate wages are not taxed in Texas. So essentially Texas paid Samsung about 233 million to move to Texas, and will never recoup the money. Smart. Not.
While this is a nice step toward fractional "made in the USA", it's creating jobs here, but still sending money out of the country. Why is it that an Asian company can figure out how to manufacture here but American companies cannot?
Few American companies manufacture overseas either. They hire other companies like Samsung or Foxconn to manufacture. This includes Apple. Foreign companies also have an advantage over American manufactures already here because they often can talk local governments into paying for the building of the facilities like Samsung did here. In a place like Texas, I doubt the government ever sees any of the public money back.
The US could motivate more manufacturing here without local taxpayers subsidizing the building of the facilities simply by doing away with the so called Free Trade Agreements, which really aren't free.
Which has had its manufacturing plant at Austin since 1996 ( for 15 years ).
Hey Apple, learn a few things from Samsung.
While this is a nice step toward fractional "made in the USA", it's creating jobs here, but still sending money out of the country. Why is it that an Asian company can figure out how to manufacture here but American companies cannot?
Because American companies are greedy.
Samsung built this plant WAY back in 1996 ( 15 years ago) even before all this craze about "smartphones".
They could've built it anywhere in the world. But why choose the highest wage paying nation (USA) to build its sprawling manufacturing plant in Austin, Texas just shows how much faith a Korean company has in the US economy.
Obviously, companies like Apple (greedy) dont have much faith in the US economy, enough to outsource ALL of its manufacturing to foreign countries (COMMUNIST COUNTRIES no less) with one of the lowest paying wage jobs around.
It's called corporate citizenship, building things in the places where you sell them; something that Apple certainly lacks.
American companies should be ashamed how "foreign" companies are helping the growth of US GDP by building plants in the US while they are busy sending off jobs to distant foreign countries and in turn building up THEIR GDP; all in the name of cutting costs and improving their own bottom line (greedy).
"Buy American" right? Right?
As an UT Austin grad, I have many friends who work at that plant. Its a huge part of the Austin economy and was big news back when they started building the plant and speculating how much it would contribute to Austin's economy. There are many joint research programs with Samsung in the engineering building at school and an extensive internship program at the plant. Almost half of the graduating EE majors applied for positions there at the plant.
Texas provided Samsung essentially 233 million worth of public incentives that other american based businesses are not getting. For that 233 million worth of incentives, Texas has said, but is not obligated, to bring about a 1000 jobs to Texas. This represents about 50 million worth of wages a year to Texas. However, individual or corporate wages are not taxed in Texas. So essentially Texas paid Samsung about 233 million to move to Texas, and will never recoup the money. Smart. Not.
Austin has recouped all of its payments in the past 10 years.
What has Apple done for Austin? Just that customer service center.
Are you trying to say any investment in Texas is a bad investment? Any investment in USA is a bad investment?
Come to Texas and see for yourself how much this plant has contributed to the local economy.
Before you do that, please watch what you say.
Very interesting, but also very wrong. Check some benchmarks. The 4S (which is powered by the A5) blows the Exynos 4210 (powering the Galaxy S 2) out of the water.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...i-droid-bionic
Nope. That's a GPU benchmark and largely irrelevant as Android doesn't care much about the GPU. The 4210's Mali-400, being the second fastest currently deployed mobile GPU, is more than enough for Samsung's purposes. Far as I know, 4210 slightly bests the A5 on integer workloads. The die-shrunk 4212, on the other hand, is a large iterative improvement in both performance and efficiency over 4210 / A5 class of parts and is ready to go now. The 2012 part goes to A15 core and packs a lot of GPU so it's a huge jump forward and apparently primarily a tablet chip.
Small government = low taxes.
Low taxes = business investment (Samsung!).
Business investment = jobs.
Go Texas!
Drought = no water. No water = terrible standard of living, if at all.
Me stay in CA with high taxes.
How long till A5 clones start showing up in Samsung products?
Well, by definition, A5 is a clone of someone else's processor design.