Bill Maher: We Hardly Knew Ye

groverat · October 31, 2002 1:50PM

I watched Leno last night for some unexplained reason and I got to witness a man completely destroyed by bitterness and self-pity. If anyone who watched it can chime in on this will be appreciate, but Maher is among the most pathetic people I've ever seen on a late night talk show.

His bitterness was tangible and it stood in the way (like it always has) of clear thought. Leno was a gracious host (the same can't be said of the guest) and he absolutely schooled Maher at every turn during their political discussion. You know you've fallen when a comedian is making you look uninformed.

I found myself asking ..uh... myself, "Why in God's name is this man on the show, and why in God's name was he ever on television?"

A question unanswered. But thank Jesus he's gone.

Praise the Lord!

matsu · October 31, 2002 1:56PM

While I'm not a huge Maher fan, he did get slightly screwed bye post the 9-11 rah rah Americana propaganda machine.

defiant · October 31, 2002 2:00PM

[quote]Originally posted by groverat:

Praise the Lord!<hr></blockquote>

hmmhmmmm !

this is ?© and other nasty stuff 2002 by Fellowship

you gonna get your *** filled up with lawsuits !

groverat · October 31, 2002 2:00PM

I agree to an extent, but if he was going to go out with a bang he needed to at least make sense.

He's too stupid for his own good, he doesn't know when his cutesy bullshit needs to be turned off, he's incapable of objectivity or even listening.

[ 10-31-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]

matsu · October 31, 2002 2:09PM

Some of these funny guys, like Maher, aren't quite sure if they should be comedians or commentators. The audience gets confused, they get confused, and soon enough they've fallen through the cracks of comedy and (light) popular social commentary. Quite an achievement, actually, considering how little there is to give between comedy and editorialism.

groverat · October 31, 2002 2:13PM

Comedy requires humor.

Editorialism requires knowledge.

And when you have neither you have Politically Incorrect.

shawnpatrickjoyce · October 31, 2002 2:25PM

Grover, can you find a transcript so I have an idea of what exactly you're talking about?

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

groverat · October 31, 2002 2:33PM

I don't know if a transcript will do it justice.

You have to see how his hair has gone completely grey, no doubt from nights of skulking and pouting. You have to see his childish-looking book that will sell 5 copies and hear how awkward his bitterness makes him. I had to turn the channel occassionally because it was just so painful.

spaceman_spiff · October 31, 2002 3:17PM

I thought Maher had some promise when he was on Comedy Central but I was wrong. He sucked on ABC. It wasn't the 9/11 comment that did him in. That just gave ABC an excuse to do what they were already going to do.

I hate it when someone wastes a perfectly good soapbox like that. He doesn't get any pity from me.

fran441 · October 31, 2002 4:12PM

My cousin worked on Politically Incorrect when it was at Comedy Central. When it moved to LA, he didn't go with it. By the end of his time with the show, he wasn't exactl a Bill Maher fan.

So he started working on the kid's show Zoom and says he is much happier (probably more viewers too).

scott · October 31, 2002 4:18PM

[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:

...

So he started working on the kid's show Zoom and says he is much happier (probably more viewers too).

<hr></blockquote>

Smarter ones too

rick1138 · October 31, 2002 4:33PM

Zoom is still on the air?

doctorgonzo · October 31, 2002 6:07PM

[quote]Zoom is still on the air? <hr></blockquote>

Yes.

I once watched a 4 or 5 hour marathon of Zoom out of sheer boredom last year.

A friend who was with me thought one of the girls had cigarette burns on her arms.

eugene · October 31, 2002 8:26PM

I really liked watching Politically Incorrect, though Bill Maher was hit or miss (50/50) depending on the topic. I miss his show.

torifile · October 31, 2002 8:42PM

So, could someone fill me in on what happened (wrt to the 9/11 comment)? TIA. (I don't watch much tv)

spaceman_spiff · November 1, 2002 11:55AM

I didn't see it either but it was widely reported in the news. He agreed with one of his panelists who objected to the popular characterization of the 9/11 terrorists as cowards. (For what it's worth, I agreed too.) He also dissed the U.S. military as the real cowards for "lobbing cruise missles from 2000 miles away." (I didn't agree with that part.) As you might expect, a couple of his sponsors pulled their ads. Also, Ari Fleischer made some kind of comment during his daily press briefing. Everybody chose up sides. Maher looked around, noticed that he didn't have very many on his side (interestingly, Rush Limbaugh, of all people, defended Maher) and backed away from his statement. Not exactly a profile in courage but he really didn't have much choice. The slam against the military wasn't very well thought out.

[ 11-01-2002: Message edited by: spaceman_spiff ]

brussell · November 1, 2002 12:12PM

And that Maher comment is what elicited the White House to say that Americans better watch what they say and do.

fellowship · November 1, 2002 12:27PM

[quote]Originally posted by groverat:

I watched Leno last night for some unexplained reason and I got to witness a man completely destroyed by bitterness and self-pity. If anyone who watched it can chime in on this will be appreciate, but Maher is among the most pathetic people I've ever seen on a late night talk show.

His bitterness was tangible and it stood in the way (like it always has) of clear thought. Leno was a gracious host (the same can't be said of the guest) and he absolutely schooled Maher at every turn during their political discussion. You know you've fallen when a comedian is making you look uninformed.

I found myself asking ..uh... myself, "Why in God's name is this man on the show, and why in God's name was he ever on television?"

A question unanswered. But thank Jesus he's gone.

Praise the Lord!<hr></blockquote>

Amen

Fellowship

groverat · November 1, 2002 6:02PM

His assertion that terrorists aren't cowards is idiotic.

I can't think of something more cowardly than wanting to kill thousands of men, women and children so your God will give you a free spot in eternal paradise.

matsu · November 1, 2002 7:00PM

I disagree insofar as it's not that clear cut. What is bravery for one may not be to another. I'm not talking moral relativism here, even if it might sound that way. Someone who is willing to kill himself to kill you is both a coward and a brave man. Pragmatically speaking (naively), you cannot afford to treat them as cowards. You cannot count on them to save their own skin, and that is a very striking new danger -- it is very hard to stop someone who aims to trade their life for yours.

The immediate reaction of America was to paint these criminals as cowards. So very trite, so self servingly propagandist, but so very true. I wonder if Americans had in that moment reasoned themselves to the right conclusion or simply searched for the most demeaning slander they could muster and luckily found the right target. I tend to think that the label 'coward' was a Hail Mary pass that just happened to be right on the mark. Sometimes you get lucky.

But going back to the my first paragraph, I have to wonder if 'coward' does any good as an operational tag? We expect cowards to protect themselves and this enemy didn't care about that, so for all its truth, the moniker did (I believe) aim to instill a false sense of security. Maher, for all his annoying quirks, recognized at least part of this and responded to it. Only he didn't think through it completely and he suffered when he wavered. You have to be sure of your opinion before you give it, and he wasn't sure because he wasn't sure if he was trying to be funny or serious, and neither was anybody else.

So, yes 'coward' is the best moral descriptor, but it is a slightly dangerous practical application. We count on cowards to chicken out, only now, when they do chicken out, the consequences are more disasterous for us than they are for them.

Maher got caught in the middle of this. His own failure to appreciate the fine distinction is embarrasing, but the rest of his pro-Americana critics have failed in roughly the same way and their reaction has been at least as embarrasing as Maher's comedic or editorial failings.

curiousuburb · November 1, 2002 9:53PM

while i won't disagree that maher didn't occasionally make an idiot of himself on any given issue, his take on late night talk stood above most vapid egopromo plastic on leno/letterman/obrien/bullard/stewart/etc...

guests would actually speak on relevant societal issues

not just floss their new film or pump cd sales pop stars and senators, any colour, any fringe

those who rose to maher's defense cited the proverbial 1st Ammendment

which protects idiotic, foot-in-mouth speech as much as any other kind.

from my perspective, the reaction of the white house press rep ari,

to "watch what you say" was far more insidious

verging on the orwellian, as has been discussed in other threads

somebody sent me a link to some repurposed propaganda posters on this theme <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/PhotoAlbum1.html"; target="_blank">here</a>

makes one wonder what freedom is

if maher deserved to be banned from any media, it'd be film

ever watched <a href="http://us.imdb.com/Title?0094834"; target="_blank">Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death?</a>

first film on record?... D.C. Cab

but late night tv is less mentally meaty without maher

now that dennis miller is gone too (damn),

now don't let me get off on a rant about miller

where's a viewer to go for ironic humour plus vocabulary

bring back one of them at least, please

Bill Maher: We Hardly Knew Ye

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