No, it's stupid. When you buy things, you support your economy, whether it be a cell contract, some local accessory shop with ugly cases at a pulga....whatever. I'd tell Argentina to go F themselves and tell them to F Messi as well.
It would seem to me that when/if Apple builds phones/iPads in Brazil, the ban will become moot as under MERCOSUR, Brazilian products can enter Argentina duty free. Under MERCOSUR, don't believe Argentina could block these imports from Brazil.
Population of Brazil about 5X that of Argentina.
Doubt the others are building smart phones in Argentina for a small market. Volume isn't there to support a factory.
I have banned all Apple products until they build a Genius Bar in my home and staff it.
I realize you're joking, but that's a good example of why this kind of forced-hand stuff doesn't work. Argentina just basically did the same thing. Apparently they haven't figured out that free markets bring prosperity, not heavy-handed controls. They just took over the newsprint paper business for pete's sake. Good luck.
Rather than criticise Argentina, isn't it about time the US protected its own industries? Instead we have statements coming out that China is not a currency manipulator, which is the biggest load of BS I've heard in a long time. Ladies and gentlemen, that's your government at work, selling out US workers in favor of the Chinese and their unfair business practices, all so you can get low quality, shoddy goods at a cheap price.
Who cares! The Argentines come to America and shop till they drop. I live on Miami beach and there is an Apple store on a place called Lincoln road. I work in the hotel biz and I see them stock piling Mac book airs,Mac books, iPads and iPhones like they are going out of style.
Argentinia has an addressable smart phone market of around 4-6MM units per year. Let's assume that is $2.5B at retail without tarif, or approximately $500MM in tarif to be collected per year. Assembling the phones in China costs ~$60MM in incremental cost.
The simple question is if the avoided tarif offsets the cost of building a plant and operating it less efficiently than in China. I would expect the per-unit assembly cost to be about 5x (~$60/unit), and the capital cost of the plant to be about $400MM. That pretty much makes it a wash.
The alternative is to just do final assembly and packaging in-country.
There is a local iOS app developer community that will be negatively impacted (most of their revenue comes from abroad).
Meanwhile, Argentina picks up a few low-paying assembly jobs in a province almost nobody wants to live in.
It shows a total lack of understanding of how you add value to an economy.
Even more bizarre, it's inconsistent. You can get an iPad 2 (including the 3G model) at most large electronics retailers and all Apple resellers. Likewise iMacs, iPod Touches, and MacBook Pros are freely available (though costly). Then again, MacBook Airs are also banned!
I think whatever bureaucrat is calling the shots on this one is interpreting iPhones and MBAs to be luxury items, or something. It will work itself out, eventually. I don't see this being a long-term issue, especially if assembly starts in Brazil (which together with Argentina is in the Mercosur Trade pact).
But yeah, it's stupid, stupid, stupid.
Oh, and whoever called Argentina a hell hole is a clueless idiot who has never been there. It's a better place to live in than lots of places, even some in the US. And as stupid as this move is, at least the country hasn't poured billions of dollars rescuing fraudulent banks, like some other countries I've heard of...
The decision by the Argentinian government claims that the selective consumer electronics ban is meant to slow rising inflation and correct the disparity between the pesos and U.S. dollar, according to website Manuals.ws.
Really smart. So to attack inflation, you make it impossible for people to buy a $500 iPhone so they have to buy it on the black market for $1,000.
Argentina was just coming off the back of a complete failure of their economy and that was before the so called recession hit in 2008. I seriously do think that they have learned from their mistakes and so all the negative comments are somewhat uninformed.
If people have to go into debt to get products like an iPhone or iPad or MacBook then they don't help the economy instead they add to the problem.
Spending does help the economy but it is a false economy if people go into debt or rack up credit card debt.
Forcing people to buy locally can only be a good thing as all the money from the people goes directly back into the economy propping it up.
America should learn a thing or two about this because their economy is in the crapper at the moment with no signs of coming out anytime too soon.
Don't mock someone simply because you don't understand what they are doing. At least study what they are doing to see if it will work or not.
But then America has never been that way inclined and you know what the old saying is about those who fail to learn from history.
Economics 101: When your country's currency is inflated, which means it isn't worth the crap, you won't be able to grow your economy using protectionism. You need outside income because your's isn't worth enough to run the country. It may seem like you win with this tactic but it will take down the economy in the long run. Growing nothing is still nothing.
Nothing stupid about trying to protect the people who the government supposedly serves. RIM is complying, as did other manufacturers. Not so stupid after all.
LOL - so you are able to measure some sign of intelligence through acts of stupidity? And this protects and serves the people how? It will merely drive consumers to a thriving black market. The government should be focused on why they have been a continuing failure to their citizens for decades. It has nothing to do with iPhones.
Rather than criticise Argentina, isn't it about time the US protected its own industries? Instead we have statements coming out that China is not a currency manipulator, which is the biggest load of BS I've heard in a long time. Ladies and gentlemen, that's your government at work, selling out US workers in favor of the Chinese and their unfair business practices, all so you can get low quality, shoddy goods at a cheap price.
No, it's not time for that. Everyone loses when protection increases. Small numbers lose when trade happens, and the majority gain far more.
Argentinia has an addressable smart phone market of around 4-6MM units per year. Let's assume that is $2.5B at retail without tarif, or approximately $500MM in tarif to be collected per year. Assembling the phones in China costs ~$60MM in incremental cost.
The simple question is if the avoided tarif offsets the cost of building a plant and operating it less efficiently than in China. I would expect the per-unit assembly cost to be about 5x (~$60/unit), and the capital cost of the plant to be about $400MM. That pretty much makes it a wash.
The alternative is to just do final assembly and packaging in-country.
That math assumes that sales to Argentines will drop to zero otherwise. Totally false. Argentina can't prevent phones from streaming in over its borders. This law will only enrich those willing to break the law and using money from those who can afford a premium price, which you would THINK would be two unintended consequences. How a politician cannot see them coming when enacting this kind of stupid protectionism is beyond me.
Actually that's not true. I assume the politicians know what will happen, but they assume that their constituents are as uninformed as many of the posters on this board about basic economics.
Yeesh, they are just trying to support their own industrial base.
What do you think would happen to apple if the US government made the same law.
Everybody is always complaining here about how Apple has no domestic manufacturing here in the states, but when some country takes the initiative to defend its home manufacturing base, you guys tell them to F off.
So what is it then? Allow foreign products, or defend your economy? I'm confused.
Argentina is far from a third world country and I'm guessing they're tired of being a puppet for the US.
At the start of the 20th century Argentina was far from being a poor country. The mystery is why its growth did not keep up with North America and Europe. Especially considering Europe suffered devastation in two world wars. I suppose if the government was too corrupt or meddlesome that could be part of the problem. I've never heard a good explanation.
Except for brief, isolated periods of rationality, Argentina is South America's decades-long poster child for economic mismanagement. As it is elsewhere, the iPhone is a game-changer and enormously popular. That makes it the easy whipping boy for Argentinian demagogues looking to hoodwink their citizens with the big lie that "high-priced luxury imports" are what's bankrupting the country. There's no doubt that hard currency in private hands is fleeing the country, but it's not because of imports. If you're an Argentine citizen trying to protect your wealth and living under a government that you can't trust, what would you do?
I don't see how stopping people going out and purchasing an expensive item (thus paying a lot of VAT on the item) is supposed to help anybody...
Better not - they got there asses kicked last time.
As you well know but some may have forgotten, they'd have got their asses kicked even faster if the French, Britain's EU partner, hadn't sold weapons to the Argentinian dictator enabling him to prolong the war and cause many deaths on both sides. Of course the French were able to make a few franks so no doubt they thought it justified. The asses in question were not your average Argentinian of course just the poor sods in the military of a loony regime.
Meanwhile an Argentinian friend of mine just carried a MacBook Pro she bought in Florida into Argentina and paid her taxes without any problems not sure what would have happened if it had been an iPhone though..
Yeesh, they are just trying to support their own industrial base.
What do you think would happen to apple if the US government made the same law.
Everybody is always complaining here about how Apple has no domestic manufacturing here in the states, but when some country takes the initiative to defend its home manufacturing base, you guys tell them to F off.
So what is it then? Allow foreign products, or defend your economy? I'm confused.
You're clearly confused, on that we agree.
No, everybody does not complain about how Apple has no domestic manufacturing. The same people who complain about that also think this is a great idea. You can't take a group of people who don't understand economics and claim that they are both sides of a debate. Those are the idiots. The people who understand how the world works are trashing Argentina and defending Apple for not manufacturing in the USA. Everyone benefits when companies produce their good as efficiently as possible, regardless of a line on a map. Everyone suffers when politicians get involved in corporate decisions, without exception.
Argentina is far from a third world country and I'm guessing they're tired of being a puppet for the US.
I'll just bet you are from that third world hellhole ? Sorry 69 but once your off the tourist trap area your in a livin hellhole everywhere you look and go !! Makes our ghettos look like swanky subdivisions :-)))
Comments
I have banned all Apple products until they build a Genius Bar in my home and staff it.
Is that like when Microsoft went around building "Microsoft Stores" in people's houses and selling them terrible computers from other manufacturers?
No, it's stupid. When you buy things, you support your economy, whether it be a cell contract, some local accessory shop with ugly cases at a pulga....whatever. I'd tell Argentina to go F themselves and tell them to F Messi as well.
It would seem to me that when/if Apple builds phones/iPads in Brazil, the ban will become moot as under MERCOSUR, Brazilian products can enter Argentina duty free. Under MERCOSUR, don't believe Argentina could block these imports from Brazil.
Population of Brazil about 5X that of Argentina.
Doubt the others are building smart phones in Argentina for a small market. Volume isn't there to support a factory.
I have banned all Apple products until they build a Genius Bar in my home and staff it.
I realize you're joking, but that's a good example of why this kind of forced-hand stuff doesn't work. Argentina just basically did the same thing. Apparently they haven't figured out that free markets bring prosperity, not heavy-handed controls. They just took over the newsprint paper business for pete's sake. Good luck.
Next... Are they going to invade the Falklands again!
Again? Las Islas Malvinas were invaded by the brits, kicking all the argentinians out.. Inform yourself before making stupid comments.
The simple question is if the avoided tarif offsets the cost of building a plant and operating it less efficiently than in China. I would expect the per-unit assembly cost to be about 5x (~$60/unit), and the capital cost of the plant to be about $400MM. That pretty much makes it a wash.
The alternative is to just do final assembly and packaging in-country.
Meanwhile, Argentina picks up a few low-paying assembly jobs in a province almost nobody wants to live in.
It shows a total lack of understanding of how you add value to an economy.
Even more bizarre, it's inconsistent. You can get an iPad 2 (including the 3G model) at most large electronics retailers and all Apple resellers. Likewise iMacs, iPod Touches, and MacBook Pros are freely available (though costly). Then again, MacBook Airs are also banned!
I think whatever bureaucrat is calling the shots on this one is interpreting iPhones and MBAs to be luxury items, or something. It will work itself out, eventually. I don't see this being a long-term issue, especially if assembly starts in Brazil (which together with Argentina is in the Mercosur Trade pact).
But yeah, it's stupid, stupid, stupid.
Oh, and whoever called Argentina a hell hole is a clueless idiot who has never been there. It's a better place to live in than lots of places, even some in the US. And as stupid as this move is, at least the country hasn't poured billions of dollars rescuing fraudulent banks, like some other countries I've heard of...
The decision by the Argentinian government claims that the selective consumer electronics ban is meant to slow rising inflation and correct the disparity between the pesos and U.S. dollar, according to website Manuals.ws.
Really smart. So to attack inflation, you make it impossible for people to buy a $500 iPhone so they have to buy it on the black market for $1,000.
Argentina was just coming off the back of a complete failure of their economy and that was before the so called recession hit in 2008. I seriously do think that they have learned from their mistakes and so all the negative comments are somewhat uninformed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argenti...s_(1999?2002)
If people have to go into debt to get products like an iPhone or iPad or MacBook then they don't help the economy instead they add to the problem.
Spending does help the economy but it is a false economy if people go into debt or rack up credit card debt.
Forcing people to buy locally can only be a good thing as all the money from the people goes directly back into the economy propping it up.
America should learn a thing or two about this because their economy is in the crapper at the moment with no signs of coming out anytime too soon.
Don't mock someone simply because you don't understand what they are doing. At least study what they are doing to see if it will work or not.
But then America has never been that way inclined and you know what the old saying is about those who fail to learn from history.
Economics 101: When your country's currency is inflated, which means it isn't worth the crap, you won't be able to grow your economy using protectionism. You need outside income because your's isn't worth enough to run the country. It may seem like you win with this tactic but it will take down the economy in the long run. Growing nothing is still nothing.
Nothing stupid about trying to protect the people who the government supposedly serves. RIM is complying, as did other manufacturers. Not so stupid after all.
LOL - so you are able to measure some sign of intelligence through acts of stupidity? And this protects and serves the people how? It will merely drive consumers to a thriving black market. The government should be focused on why they have been a continuing failure to their citizens for decades. It has nothing to do with iPhones.
Rather than criticise Argentina, isn't it about time the US protected its own industries? Instead we have statements coming out that China is not a currency manipulator, which is the biggest load of BS I've heard in a long time. Ladies and gentlemen, that's your government at work, selling out US workers in favor of the Chinese and their unfair business practices, all so you can get low quality, shoddy goods at a cheap price.
No, it's not time for that. Everyone loses when protection increases. Small numbers lose when trade happens, and the majority gain far more.
Argentinia has an addressable smart phone market of around 4-6MM units per year. Let's assume that is $2.5B at retail without tarif, or approximately $500MM in tarif to be collected per year. Assembling the phones in China costs ~$60MM in incremental cost.
The simple question is if the avoided tarif offsets the cost of building a plant and operating it less efficiently than in China. I would expect the per-unit assembly cost to be about 5x (~$60/unit), and the capital cost of the plant to be about $400MM. That pretty much makes it a wash.
The alternative is to just do final assembly and packaging in-country.
That math assumes that sales to Argentines will drop to zero otherwise. Totally false. Argentina can't prevent phones from streaming in over its borders. This law will only enrich those willing to break the law and using money from those who can afford a premium price, which you would THINK would be two unintended consequences. How a politician cannot see them coming when enacting this kind of stupid protectionism is beyond me.
Actually that's not true. I assume the politicians know what will happen, but they assume that their constituents are as uninformed as many of the posters on this board about basic economics.
What do you think would happen to apple if the US government made the same law.
Everybody is always complaining here about how Apple has no domestic manufacturing here in the states, but when some country takes the initiative to defend its home manufacturing base, you guys tell them to F off.
So what is it then? Allow foreign products, or defend your economy? I'm confused.
Argentina is far from a third world country and I'm guessing they're tired of being a puppet for the US.
At the start of the 20th century Argentina was far from being a poor country. The mystery is why its growth did not keep up with North America and Europe. Especially considering Europe suffered devastation in two world wars. I suppose if the government was too corrupt or meddlesome that could be part of the problem. I've never heard a good explanation.
I don't see how stopping people going out and purchasing an expensive item (thus paying a lot of VAT on the item) is supposed to help anybody...
Better not - they got there asses kicked last time.
As you well know but some may have forgotten, they'd have got their asses kicked even faster if the French, Britain's EU partner, hadn't sold weapons to the Argentinian dictator enabling him to prolong the war and cause many deaths on both sides. Of course the French were able to make a few franks so no doubt they thought it justified.
Meanwhile an Argentinian friend of mine just carried a MacBook Pro she bought in Florida into Argentina and paid her taxes without any problems not sure what would have happened if it had been an iPhone though..
Yeesh, they are just trying to support their own industrial base.
What do you think would happen to apple if the US government made the same law.
Everybody is always complaining here about how Apple has no domestic manufacturing here in the states, but when some country takes the initiative to defend its home manufacturing base, you guys tell them to F off.
So what is it then? Allow foreign products, or defend your economy? I'm confused.
You're clearly confused, on that we agree.
No, everybody does not complain about how Apple has no domestic manufacturing. The same people who complain about that also think this is a great idea. You can't take a group of people who don't understand economics and claim that they are both sides of a debate. Those are the idiots. The people who understand how the world works are trashing Argentina and defending Apple for not manufacturing in the USA. Everyone benefits when companies produce their good as efficiently as possible, regardless of a line on a map. Everyone suffers when politicians get involved in corporate decisions, without exception.
Argentina is far from a third world country and I'm guessing they're tired of being a puppet for the US.
I'll just bet you are from that third world hellhole ? Sorry 69 but once your off the tourist trap area your in a livin hellhole everywhere you look and go !! Makes our ghettos look like swanky subdivisions :-)))