Dell is still selling waaaay more computers to enterprise than Apple does and the only logical conclusion on why those businesses didn't purchase tablets from them is that there were issues with the product itself. If it were Dell itself that was the problem then I'd expect we would see some mass exodus of its client base to some other windows oem and even if that is happening as we speak THAT oem would be selling those same companies tablets in large quantities (which hasn't and isn't happening thus far).
As for your comment on verticle markets competing against Apple in the tablet space, what players are verticle? HP with WebOS was but that's dead. Blackberry is one but the playbook is basically dead too. All the others (whether they fork android or not) aren't vertical because at some point they had to rely on google (or windows although windows tablets are a rounding error at this point) for software to even have a tablet to sell.
Tell you what you do: Mark this page and come back to it a year or so from now.
Vertical markets cannot do without iPads with 3G, gyroscope, 64GB storage, A5 processors, or 10'' screens. There are no alternatives that will show a bunch of lo-res pictures or a list of links for less than $600-700 a piece.
Supermarkets don't want customers to find things quickly. They would prefer that you cruise up and down the aisles and pick up unplanned items while you are searching. That is one reason supermarkets reorganize every couple of years. After many decades of existence, they are certainly aware of the organization that would be most efficient for customers, and they could implement it and leave it alone if they wanted. I don't think they would cooperate with your scenario.
100% correct. They purposely de-organize their layout to confuse people and increase customer "browse" time. Wal-Mart used to be the worst offender at this. I have read they have changed somewhat and redone the stores so people can find things more easily. Can't confirm as I have not been in a Wal-Mart in quite some time. Those stores give me the willies.
Funny how after pointing out that at least three hardware manufacturers with massively larger sales in enterprise than Apple hasn't been able to leverage that goodwill and experience into tablet sales is met with either: 1) those companies selling millions of computers more than Apple are inept!, or 2) sarcasm.
Funny how after pointing out that at least three hardware manufacturers with massively larger sales in enterprise than Apple hasn't been able to leverage that goodwill and experience into tablet sales is met with either: 1) those companies selling millions of computers more than Apple are inept!, or 2) sarcasm.
You're right, this is a clear example of cognitive dissonance. The facts contradict our expectations; we're left with the choice to modify our expectations (hard) or wait (a year or two) until the facts change to match the expectations. The latter may never happen, and those of us who have the needed honesty will have to do the former.
Yes, but... I know from discussion among pilots that the iPad is almost more tolerated than accepted in those quarters. The company is fundamentally mistrusted by many in aviation. Apple has been fortunate in that the killer aviation apps have appeared first on the iOS platform. On many of these narrow fronts I'd keep an eye out for Android vendors discovering that an essentially dedicated tablet devoted to one occupational use might be very appealing to that market segment. Apple could get outflanked here if they are not very careful. I'm not sure they can fully guard against it.
I happen to work at an FBO. Most private pilots have zero clue about what's the best technology for the job. They may have some of the nicest planes, but buy the cheapest junk tablets they can buy and then turn to me to vent why their $100 android tablet won't work right on our network. I pull my iPad out to show them instantly that everything works. That shuts them up, let's them realize they got exactly what they paid for, and usually results in them buying an iPad that week.
It's not that they don't trust Apple, they just don't know any better. When a $500 iPad is next to countless sub $200 tablets that "kinda" look the same, what else will they think?
In my original post, I was referring to commercial airline pilots and the FAA approving iPads to replace flight manuals.
I stand by my argument. IPads are toasters that simply work. Android tablets are Frankentablets that do a lot of things, but does nothing well.
<...>They met have some if the nicest planes, but buy the cheapest junk tablets they can buy and then turn to me to vent why their $100 android tablet won't work right on our network. <...>
It's not that they don't trust Apple, they just don't know any better. When a $500 iPad is next to countless sub $200 tablets that "kinda" look the same, what else will they think?
<...>
Cool story. Has any of these people tried buying a $500 Android tablet? I wonder how those would fare compared to the sub $200 junk? Or will those fail in displaying the flight manuals?
Cool story. Has any of these people tried buying a $500 Android tablet? I wonder how those would fare compared to the sub $200 junk? Or will those fail in displaying the flight manuals?
I winced at $200 myself, but to be fair, one poster did mention commodization. For me, the answer to your last question would be NO, those tablets wouldn't necessarily fail. But that doesn't really matter because the hardware manufacturers (with the help of Google) suck at customer service and maintenance which means no regularly large scale enterprise deployments for them in this or similar areas.
<...>But that doesn't really matter because the hardware manufacturers (with the help of Google) suck at customer service and maintenance which means no regularly large scale enterprise deployments for them in this or similar areas.
I've received impeccable customer service from Acer, Sony and Dell in the past, but my anecdotal experience is likely trumped by your broad generalization.
I've received impeccable customer service from Acer, Sony and Dell in the past, but my anecdotal experience is likely trumped by your broad generalization.
Of course it is, but it's not the only game in town. Both Google (that you mentioned as a reason for poor service, ?!) and Samsung are on that US-only list (which is, by the way, from 2006 -- you had to google for it, right?).
Of course it is, but it's not the only game in town. Both Google (that you mentioned as a reason for poor service, ?!) and Samsung are on that US-only list (which is, by the way, from 2006 -- you had to google for it, right?).
Er yes I googled so I could give you an actual example. Am I suppose to provide links to you from memory? As for google, yes I find that it has less than stellar customer service if it can't insure it's customers get OS updates for suitable hardware in a decent amount of time.
Er yes I googled so I could give you an actual example. Am I suppose to provide links to you from memory? As for google, yes I find that it has less than stellar customer service if it can't insure it's customers get OS updates for suitable hardware in a decent amount of time.
Well, you didn't have to, I never questioned Apple's stellar customer support. Your link hardly supports your previous claim that everyone else's support sucks.
In regard to vertical markets, Google likely won't be involved, since companies are likely to fork Android and provide their own support, as Amazon does.
Well, you didn't have to, I never questioned Apple's stellar customer support. Your link hardly supports your previous claim that everyone else's support sucks.
In regard to vertical markets, Google likely won't be involved, since companies are likely to fork Android and provide their own support, as Amazon does.
On the first page I ended up agreeing with a poster that if Garmin (as an example) did that if marketed to a niche market, but again it would come down to customer support and I don't think the current OEMs provide that in a fashion to really threaten Apple's share.
As for vertical markets, I only brought that up because another poster asked why I omitted it. I firmly am in the no other real vertical players but that isn't exactly necessary.
Cool story. Has any of these people tried buying a $500 Android tablet? I wonder how those would fare compared to the sub $200 junk? Or will those fail in displaying the flight manuals?
I've actually recommended Samsung tablets to those that specifically did not want Apple. Usually, they then tell me that the Samsung tablets are about the same price as IPads and then whine some more. The cheap junk tablets, like netbooks, have such inferior hardware and driver issues.
But to answer your question, no. I have yet to see someone use a Samsung tablet.
With no regular, guaranteed updates then you have to worry about bug fixes and security. Until one of the manufacturers steps up in customer service, i don't see them making headway into this type of market anytime soon. Commodified or not.
It will happen. If there is a strong potential to profit from it, someone will do this. It just may not be one of the big companies that you constantly hear about today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
Maybe, but I'd say this is less of an issue than you suggest if only because Android OEMs are multiple and various. Also tablet computers are hurtling towards becoming commodity items, mainly due to Android proliferation. Tablets aren't sold in blister packs on checkout aisles yet, but this is not far off. A clever Android OEM will eventually figure out that they can preload an industry specific app onto inexpensive hardware and market it directly to that industry. They could score big if they work it right, and it would come at the expense of Apple.
There's a lot of interest in tablets currently due to usability. Laptops can be carried anywhere. Tablets can be carried and used in between destinations. You don't need a stable surface or anything of that sort, which is great. I figured it would blow up as it has. The problem with older X86 tablets for the most part was that they offered less in functionality, but you still see variations on the form factor with devices made to accept digital signatures (like when you sign for a package). Also in case anyone is thinking of mentioning it, I'm aware of the typical stylus used on older tablet designs.
Yes, but... I know from discussion among pilots that the iPad is almost more tolerated than accepted in those quarters. The company is fundamentally mistrusted by many in aviation. Apple has been fortunate in that the killer aviation apps have appeared first on the iOS platform. On many of these narrow fronts I'd keep an eye out for Android vendors discovering that an essentially dedicated tablet devoted to one occupational use might be very appealing to that market segment. Apple could get outflanked here if they are not very careful. I'm not sure they can fully guard against it.
I hear quite the opposite from my cousin at Delta. The pilots are all chomping at the bit to get theirs.
I happen to work at an FBO. Most private pilots have zero clue about what's the best technology for the job. They may have some of the nicest planes, but buy the cheapest junk tablets they can buy and then turn to me to vent why their $100 android tablet won't work right on our network. I pull my iPad out to show them instantly that everything works. That shuts them up, let's them realize they got exactly what they paid for, and usually results in them buying an iPad that week.
It's not that they don't trust Apple, they just don't know any better. When a $500 iPad is next to countless sub $200 tablets that "kinda" look the same, what else will they think?
In my original post, I was referring to commercial airline pilots and the FAA approving iPads to replace flight manuals.
I stand by my argument. IPads are toasters that simply work. Android tablets are Frankentablets that do a lot of things, but does nothing well.
I happen to be a private pilot, and I talk with lots of others. If you have read anything I wrote, you will know that I am not arguing against the iPad, so you can save your breath on that part. I am simply reporting what I hear from some of my fellow pilots, enough for me to know that the Apple is not universally beloved even by some who are using the iPad as their EFB. My conclusion is that this market is vulnerable to the right competitor. Others may be as well. I suspect that Apple isn't as smug and arrogant in considering these competitive threats as some here seem to think they should be.
Comments
Dell is still selling waaaay more computers to enterprise than Apple does and the only logical conclusion on why those businesses didn't purchase tablets from them is that there were issues with the product itself. If it were Dell itself that was the problem then I'd expect we would see some mass exodus of its client base to some other windows oem and even if that is happening as we speak THAT oem would be selling those same companies tablets in large quantities (which hasn't and isn't happening thus far).
As for your comment on verticle markets competing against Apple in the tablet space, what players are verticle? HP with WebOS was but that's dead. Blackberry is one but the playbook is basically dead too. All the others (whether they fork android or not) aren't vertical because at some point they had to rely on google (or windows although windows tablets are a rounding error at this point) for software to even have a tablet to sell.
Tell you what you do: Mark this page and come back to it a year or so from now.
Tell you what you do: Mark this page and come back to it a year or so from now.
Er, I'm sure there will be plenty of related articles on this for months and years to come.
<...> But I'd also predict that Apple is going to have a hard time defending its turf in the vertical markets.
Inconceivable!
90% of all businesses interested in adopting tablets consider buying iPads this year. Here's the indisputable proof:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...12_months.html
Vertical markets cannot do without iPads with 3G, gyroscope, 64GB storage, A5 processors, or 10'' screens. There are no alternatives that will show a bunch of lo-res pictures or a list of links for less than $600-700 a piece.
/s
Supermarkets don't want customers to find things quickly. They would prefer that you cruise up and down the aisles and pick up unplanned items while you are searching. That is one reason supermarkets reorganize every couple of years. After many decades of existence, they are certainly aware of the organization that would be most efficient for customers, and they could implement it and leave it alone if they wanted. I don't think they would cooperate with your scenario.
100% correct. They purposely de-organize their layout to confuse people and increase customer "browse" time. Wal-Mart used to be the worst offender at this. I have read they have changed somewhat and redone the stores so people can find things more easily. Can't confirm as I have not been in a Wal-Mart in quite some time. Those stores give me the willies.
Funny how after pointing out that at least three hardware manufacturers with massively larger sales in enterprise than Apple hasn't been able to leverage that goodwill and experience into tablet sales is met with either: 1) those companies selling millions of computers more than Apple are inept!, or 2) sarcasm.
You're right, this is a clear example of cognitive dissonance. The facts contradict our expectations; we're left with the choice to modify our expectations (hard) or wait (a year or two) until the facts change to match the expectations. The latter may never happen, and those of us who have the needed honesty will have to do the former.
Yes, but... I know from discussion among pilots that the iPad is almost more tolerated than accepted in those quarters. The company is fundamentally mistrusted by many in aviation. Apple has been fortunate in that the killer aviation apps have appeared first on the iOS platform. On many of these narrow fronts I'd keep an eye out for Android vendors discovering that an essentially dedicated tablet devoted to one occupational use might be very appealing to that market segment. Apple could get outflanked here if they are not very careful. I'm not sure they can fully guard against it.
I happen to work at an FBO. Most private pilots have zero clue about what's the best technology for the job. They may have some of the nicest planes, but buy the cheapest junk tablets they can buy and then turn to me to vent why their $100 android tablet won't work right on our network. I pull my iPad out to show them instantly that everything works. That shuts them up, let's them realize they got exactly what they paid for, and usually results in them buying an iPad that week.
It's not that they don't trust Apple, they just don't know any better. When a $500 iPad is next to countless sub $200 tablets that "kinda" look the same, what else will they think?
In my original post, I was referring to commercial airline pilots and the FAA approving iPads to replace flight manuals.
I stand by my argument. IPads are toasters that simply work. Android tablets are Frankentablets that do a lot of things, but does nothing well.
<...>They met have some if the nicest planes, but buy the cheapest junk tablets they can buy and then turn to me to vent why their $100 android tablet won't work right on our network. <...>
It's not that they don't trust Apple, they just don't know any better. When a $500 iPad is next to countless sub $200 tablets that "kinda" look the same, what else will they think?
<...>
Cool story. Has any of these people tried buying a $500 Android tablet? I wonder how those would fare compared to the sub $200 junk? Or will those fail in displaying the flight manuals?
Cool story. Has any of these people tried buying a $500 Android tablet? I wonder how those would fare compared to the sub $200 junk? Or will those fail in displaying the flight manuals?
I winced at $200 myself, but to be fair, one poster did mention commodization. For me, the answer to your last question would be NO, those tablets wouldn't necessarily fail. But that doesn't really matter because the hardware manufacturers (with the help of Google) suck at customer service and maintenance which means no regularly large scale enterprise deployments for them in this or similar areas.
<...>But that doesn't really matter because the hardware manufacturers (with the help of Google) suck at customer service and maintenance which means no regularly large scale enterprise deployments for them in this or similar areas.
I've received impeccable customer service from Acer, Sony and Dell in the past, but my anecdotal experience is likely trumped by your broad generalization.
I've received impeccable customer service from Acer, Sony and Dell in the past, but my anecdotal experience is likely trumped by your broad generalization.
Apple is well known to beat its competitors in customer service, example: http://www.focus.com/fyi/10-best-and...tomer-service/
Apple is well known to beat its competitors in customer service, example: http://www.focus.com/fyi/10-best-and...tomer-service/
Of course it is, but it's not the only game in town. Both Google (that you mentioned as a reason for poor service, ?!) and Samsung are on that US-only list (which is, by the way, from 2006 -- you had to google for it, right?).
Of course it is, but it's not the only game in town. Both Google (that you mentioned as a reason for poor service, ?!) and Samsung are on that US-only list (which is, by the way, from 2006 -- you had to google for it, right?).
Er yes I googled so I could give you an actual example. Am I suppose to provide links to you from memory? As for google, yes I find that it has less than stellar customer service if it can't insure it's customers get OS updates for suitable hardware in a decent amount of time.
Er yes I googled so I could give you an actual example. Am I suppose to provide links to you from memory? As for google, yes I find that it has less than stellar customer service if it can't insure it's customers get OS updates for suitable hardware in a decent amount of time.
Well, you didn't have to, I never questioned Apple's stellar customer support. Your link hardly supports your previous claim that everyone else's support sucks.
In regard to vertical markets, Google likely won't be involved, since companies are likely to fork Android and provide their own support, as Amazon does.
Well, you didn't have to, I never questioned Apple's stellar customer support. Your link hardly supports your previous claim that everyone else's support sucks.
In regard to vertical markets, Google likely won't be involved, since companies are likely to fork Android and provide their own support, as Amazon does.
On the first page I ended up agreeing with a poster that if Garmin (as an example) did that if marketed to a niche market, but again it would come down to customer support and I don't think the current OEMs provide that in a fashion to really threaten Apple's share.
As for vertical markets, I only brought that up because another poster asked why I omitted it. I firmly am in the no other real vertical players but that isn't exactly necessary.
Cool story. Has any of these people tried buying a $500 Android tablet? I wonder how those would fare compared to the sub $200 junk? Or will those fail in displaying the flight manuals?
I've actually recommended Samsung tablets to those that specifically did not want Apple. Usually, they then tell me that the Samsung tablets are about the same price as IPads and then whine some more. The cheap junk tablets, like netbooks, have such inferior hardware and driver issues.
But to answer your question, no. I have yet to see someone use a Samsung tablet.
With no regular, guaranteed updates then you have to worry about bug fixes and security. Until one of the manufacturers steps up in customer service, i don't see them making headway into this type of market anytime soon. Commodified or not.
It will happen. If there is a strong potential to profit from it, someone will do this. It just may not be one of the big companies that you constantly hear about today.
Maybe, but I'd say this is less of an issue than you suggest if only because Android OEMs are multiple and various. Also tablet computers are hurtling towards becoming commodity items, mainly due to Android proliferation. Tablets aren't sold in blister packs on checkout aisles yet, but this is not far off. A clever Android OEM will eventually figure out that they can preload an industry specific app onto inexpensive hardware and market it directly to that industry. They could score big if they work it right, and it would come at the expense of Apple.
There's a lot of interest in tablets currently due to usability. Laptops can be carried anywhere. Tablets can be carried and used in between destinations. You don't need a stable surface or anything of that sort, which is great. I figured it would blow up as it has. The problem with older X86 tablets for the most part was that they offered less in functionality, but you still see variations on the form factor with devices made to accept digital signatures (like when you sign for a package). Also in case anyone is thinking of mentioning it, I'm aware of the typical stylus used on older tablet designs.
Yes, but... I know from discussion among pilots that the iPad is almost more tolerated than accepted in those quarters. The company is fundamentally mistrusted by many in aviation. Apple has been fortunate in that the killer aviation apps have appeared first on the iOS platform. On many of these narrow fronts I'd keep an eye out for Android vendors discovering that an essentially dedicated tablet devoted to one occupational use might be very appealing to that market segment. Apple could get outflanked here if they are not very careful. I'm not sure they can fully guard against it.
I hear quite the opposite from my cousin at Delta. The pilots are all chomping at the bit to get theirs.
I happen to work at an FBO. Most private pilots have zero clue about what's the best technology for the job. They may have some of the nicest planes, but buy the cheapest junk tablets they can buy and then turn to me to vent why their $100 android tablet won't work right on our network. I pull my iPad out to show them instantly that everything works. That shuts them up, let's them realize they got exactly what they paid for, and usually results in them buying an iPad that week.
It's not that they don't trust Apple, they just don't know any better. When a $500 iPad is next to countless sub $200 tablets that "kinda" look the same, what else will they think?
In my original post, I was referring to commercial airline pilots and the FAA approving iPads to replace flight manuals.
I stand by my argument. IPads are toasters that simply work. Android tablets are Frankentablets that do a lot of things, but does nothing well.
I happen to be a private pilot, and I talk with lots of others. If you have read anything I wrote, you will know that I am not arguing against the iPad, so you can save your breath on that part. I am simply reporting what I hear from some of my fellow pilots, enough for me to know that the Apple is not universally beloved even by some who are using the iPad as their EFB. My conclusion is that this market is vulnerable to the right competitor. Others may be as well. I suspect that Apple isn't as smug and arrogant in considering these competitive threats as some here seem to think they should be.