Don't patronize us. Siri has absolutely nothing to do with Kinect.
Yes correct, it doesn't. However the post was saying that voice control in TV was because of Siri. I would argue that it's nothing to do with Siri. It's more likely that it's to do with Kinect, which was doing voice (and gesture) controlled TV content almost a year before Siri was shown to the world. But this being Apple insider everything has to be spun to be down to an Apple innovation, which I find laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Since you can't prove that and since no one can prove that Apple is even making an HDTV, I think this argument is moot.
No again you've just proved my point for me. No one can prove that Apple is making a HDTV and yet Samsung, LG etc have already got smart TVs ready to roll. Yet Apple insider claims they are doing it because of Apple TV rumours. The R&D and design time needed for new devices makes this argument totally illogical, as the other manufactures are getting to market first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And only the trolls and haters have to qualify their posts by saying that.
Not at all. Simply that I was making a first post that I thought was likely to get some backs up and I assumed that many people would dismiss me as an alias or a troll. I am neither, just a healthy cynic.
When did innovation mean "try everything under the sun, throw it at the wall and see which one sticks" ? None of these companies are innovating... they are just taking ideas and features that are currently industry buzzwords and shoving them inside their devices.
And of course, Samsung is the worst of the lot. Really? Motion control? Every time I reach up to pick my nose will the channel change on me?
I suppose this is typical of CE manufacturers and why Apple will be able to swoop down with a very limited set of refined features and redefine the industry. Because they have the discipline to say no to all the wrong things and yes to the few that really matter.
Which begs the question, why did only a few nerds buy these "tablets" for bragging rights only apparently? Twenty years later Apple is selling them by the millions. The constant drone of the Apple haters about tablets and voice commands and GUIs and mice and-and-and being around years before Apple is pretty pathetic when you think about it. Why did it take an Apple to bring these technologies to the mass market and make them common place? Xerox had no clue what to do with their GUI and mouse. Microsoft and its partners had no clue (and still don't) about how to produce a tablet that people would want to buy. The list goes on. So can we just stop with the "so-and-so did it years before Apple" nonsense. Please.
Hmm, so what happens when a TV show has a character that says "turn the TV off", "Change the channel", "turn up the volume"?
For the sound generated by the TV:
Will the voice recognition be smart enough to know it is the show and not the watcher?
Quote:
Sound is a P-wave, which consists of a compression phase and a rarefaction phase. A noise-cancellation speaker emits a sound wave with the same amplitude but with inverted phase (also known as antiphase) to the original sound. The waves combine to form a new wave, in a process called interference, and effectively cancel each other out - an effect which is called phase cancellation.
Modern active noise control is generally achieved through the use of analog circuits or Digital Signal Processing. Adaptive algorithms are designed to analyze the waveform of the background aural or nonaural noise, then based on the specific algorithm generates a signal that will either phase shift or invert the polarity of the original signal. This inverted signal (in antiphase) is then amplified and a transducer creates a sound wave directly proportional to the amplitude of the original waveform creating destructive interference. This will effectively reduce the volume of the perceivable noise.
The development is a special case of the differential microphone topology most commonly used to achieve directionality. All such microphones have at least two ports through which sound enters; a front port normally oriented toward the desired sound and another port that's more distant. The microphone's diaphragm is placed between the two ports; sound arriving from an ambient sound field reaches both ports more or less equally. Sound that's much closer to the front port than to the rear will make more of a pressure gradient between the front and back of the diaphragm, causing it to move more. The microphone's proximity effect is adjusted so that flat frequency response is achieved for sound sources very close to the front of the mic – typically 1 to 3 cm. Sounds arriving from other angles are subject to steep midrange and bass rolloff. Commercially and militarily useful noise-canceling microphones have been made since the 1940s by Roanwell,[1] Electro-Voice and others.
Another technique uses two or more microphones and active or passive circuitry to reduce the noise. The primary microphone is closer to the desired source (like a person's mouth). A second mic receives ambient noise. In a noisy environment, both microphones receive noise at a similar level, but the primary mic receives the desired sounds more strongly. Thus if one signal is subtracted from the other (in the simplest sense, by connecting the microphones out of phase) much of the noise is canceled while the desired sound is retained. Other techniques may be used as well, such as using a directional primary mic, to maximize the difference between the two signals and make the cancellation easier to do.
The internal electronic circuitry of an active noise-canceling mic attempts to subtract noise signal from the primary microphone. The circuit may employ passive or active noise canceling techniques to filter out the noise, producing an output signal that has a lower noise floor and a higher signal-to-noise ratio.
My normal position is 6 feet in front of the HDTV. I frequently use Siri while the TV is running, and rarely have problems.
It may be related to the position of the iP4 Mic, the difference in distance of the sound source... or special programming within the iP4.
The iP4 contains fast graphic cores and a few DSP chips that could be used to cancel ambient noise.
When you are 6 feet in front of the TV....how close to your mouth are you holding your phone so Siri can complete your commands? Would you hold a mic/remote that clsoe to control your HD TV? Are there other people/family in the room?
Siri (for me anyways) has problems when there are other voices that are close by.....
Here is a link to VLINGO from CES and what they are doing. The Nuance company (Siri technology) seesm to be buying them...
Because Siri isn't voice recognition, or even voice control. It's a natural language processing system. So, even if competitors license the same voice recognition system, they won't have "Siri". What Nuance provides is the easy part.
I get that Nuance is just the "easy" voice recognition part of the equation, that's for sure. But it would be a lot harder on Siri competitors if they had no access to Nuance technology.
When you are 6 feet in front of the TV....how close to your mouth are you holding your phone so Siri can complete your commands? Would you hold a mic/remote that clsoe to control your HD TV? Are there other people/family in the room?
Siri (for me anyways) has problems when there are other voices that are close by.....
I just measured it...
The TV is 4 1/2 feet away -- 45 degrees to my left.
The iP4 is 8 inches away -- 60 degrees down towards my lap.
As for ambient noise...
In the family room where the HDTV is located there is an iMac, 1-5 iPads, 1-5 phones, 1-5 iPods, 2 cats, 1 dog, 1-5 people (including 2 teens and a 12-year-old)...
Within earshot are 2 other computers and 2 stereos...
When you are 6 feet in front of the TV....how close to your mouth are you holding your phone so Siri can complete your commands? Would you hold a mic/remote that clsoe to control your HD TV? Are there other people/family in the room?
Siri (for me anyways) has problems when there are other voices that are close by.....
Here is a link to VLINGO from CES and what they are doing. The Nuance company (Siri technology) seesm to be buying them...
Same here. I was in a restaurant and trying to show off Siri. I said a command and she kept thinking or something. Finally what she "heard" popped up and it was my command and a few lines of lyrics from the song in the background. I never even noticed music was on, but she picked up the lyrics.
Sounds like a desperate grab for mind share. These days, Sony is more likely to throw in technology like voice without much regard to how it will be used. It's a checklist feature.
Hmm, so what happens when a TV show has a character that says "turn the TV off", "Change the channel", "turn up the volume"?
Will the voice recognition be smart enough to know it is the show and not the watcher?
I'm sure if there is a voice controlled system like SIRI that all the sounds coming out from the tv itself will be processed through a system that will cancel out those words and sounds.
Which then only leaves the room to deal with oh and GHOSTS..lol
Hahahaa hilarious! The 'us' indicates the mob culture here is rife! "If you say anything against our beloved Apple, then you must DIE"!! Hahaha
This guy is a long time lurker, he provides a difference of opinion or new angle and he is ousted from the group immediatly for being a defector or something. Pathetic attack on your part Skil. Do you beat up small children for their candy too?
In response to the article, it is clear Apple have once again developed something exciting and superior to everyone else's solution. It has caused everyone to follow them and try to beat it once again. Which they will find difficult cause Apple want to make cool, functional life-enhancing solutions compared to everyone else who is playing catchup. Siri or equivalent capability will surely feature in everything we own from toasters to TV eventually. We'll figure out all the details like familys all talking at once and so on but its clearly a winner system that the world wants to be a part of. Well done Apple.
I got to say that Siri has a hard time with me sometimes. My Brit accent while living in America means i have to use that man voice (urgh) and cant use the Yelp integration. Grrr its right maybe 80% of the time but its early days and will improve. Its exciting to live in such times and experience technology moving at the speed it does. 10 years ago give or tKe i bought a vibrating battery for my nokia 67something. I thought that was cutting edge. The other seek i booked flights on my phone!
I'm sure if there is a voice controlled system like SIRI that all the sounds coming out from the tv itself will be processed through a system that will cancel out those words and sounds.
Which then only leaves the room to deal with oh and GHOSTS..lol
and other people in the room...going through the room......talking on another phone while watching TV.....kids in the room....pets....in the room.....and where would this voice controlled system be housed? In the Tv set it self across the room? In the remote on the coffee table or on your lap or maybe in your hand? Will you have to speak into the remote? How will it get activated to follow your commands?
2) there was no sound emanating from the TV (I guess he just wanted to watch TV -- not to listen to the shows too)
3) there was no ambient noise in the room.
4) mostly, it was analogous to:
-- speak a command
-- speech to text recognition
-- display a list of options
-- repeat
I suspect that Siri will be:
-- more conversational natural language
-- context aware
-- fewer steps - determine what you want and do it, as opposed to search and select drill-down
I have Vlingo -- slightly better than voice commands...
You can search the web and find Vlingo vs Siri (and other) comparisons -- Vlingo does poorly.
I agree..I have had Vlingo before and it does not work as well as Siri has..... But I like the direction Nuance is going.....if they are buying Vlingo then you can be sure they think Vlingo is onto something....after all they (Nuance) developed Siri technology in the first place
and other people in the room...going through the room......talking on another phone while watching TV.....kids in the room....pets....in the room.....and where would this voice controlled system be housed? In the Tv set it self across the room? In the remote on the coffee table or on your lap or maybe in your hand? Will you have to speak into the remote? How will it get activated to follow your commands?
Clearly we will all have robot assistants that look like Robin Williams to fetch the paper and pour our drinks. They will have those robot voices and dash around on wheels bashing into things.
This is all childs play, in 25 years we'll all be floating around like George Jetson with TV embedded in our electronic eye balls and commanding the world by thought with chips set into our frontal lobes while we fatten up in our floating chairs ready to be crushed by an invading alien force. I guess the president will just 'think' them to death with nukes...is thinking even possible with an American president? They all seem considerably remedial.
Comments
Don't patronize us. Siri has absolutely nothing to do with Kinect.
Yes correct, it doesn't. However the post was saying that voice control in TV was because of Siri. I would argue that it's nothing to do with Siri. It's more likely that it's to do with Kinect, which was doing voice (and gesture) controlled TV content almost a year before Siri was shown to the world. But this being Apple insider everything has to be spun to be down to an Apple innovation, which I find laughable.
Since you can't prove that and since no one can prove that Apple is even making an HDTV, I think this argument is moot.
No again you've just proved my point for me. No one can prove that Apple is making a HDTV and yet Samsung, LG etc have already got smart TVs ready to roll. Yet Apple insider claims they are doing it because of Apple TV rumours. The R&D and design time needed for new devices makes this argument totally illogical, as the other manufactures are getting to market first.
And only the trolls and haters have to qualify their posts by saying that.
Not at all. Simply that I was making a first post that I thought was likely to get some backs up and I assumed that many people would dismiss me as an alias or a troll. I am neither, just a healthy cynic.
For all we know, Apple may be working on a TV but may not release it this year, or next year.
Microsoft announced Windows Tablet PC in back in 2001. Apple only released iPad in 2010, or 9 years after its competitors.
I think Apple will only introduce a TV when it found a way to unify the user interface of various content sources.
But this being Apple insider everything has to be spun to be down to an Apple innovation, which I find laughable.
Explain how voice control and physical control have anything to do with one another or how they're remotely part of the "same" innovation.
No again you've just proved my point for me.
Not in the slightest… I think we're making different arguments here.
Will the voice recognition be smart enough to know it is the show and not the watcher?
And of course, Samsung is the worst of the lot. Really? Motion control? Every time I reach up to pick my nose will the channel change on me?
I suppose this is typical of CE manufacturers and why Apple will be able to swoop down with a very limited set of refined features and redefine the industry. Because they have the discipline to say no to all the wrong things and yes to the few that really matter.
So Apple's only almost 20 years later...
Which begs the question, why did only a few nerds buy these "tablets" for bragging rights only apparently? Twenty years later Apple is selling them by the millions. The constant drone of the Apple haters about tablets and voice commands and GUIs and mice and-and-and being around years before Apple is pretty pathetic when you think about it. Why did it take an Apple to bring these technologies to the mass market and make them common place? Xerox had no clue what to do with their GUI and mouse. Microsoft and its partners had no clue (and still don't) about how to produce a tablet that people would want to buy. The list goes on. So can we just stop with the "so-and-so did it years before Apple" nonsense. Please.
Hmm, so what happens when a TV show has a character that says "turn the TV off", "Change the channel", "turn up the volume"?
For the sound generated by the TV:
Will the voice recognition be smart enough to know it is the show and not the watcher?
Sound is a P-wave, which consists of a compression phase and a rarefaction phase. A noise-cancellation speaker emits a sound wave with the same amplitude but with inverted phase (also known as antiphase) to the original sound. The waves combine to form a new wave, in a process called interference, and effectively cancel each other out - an effect which is called phase cancellation.
Modern active noise control is generally achieved through the use of analog circuits or Digital Signal Processing. Adaptive algorithms are designed to analyze the waveform of the background aural or nonaural noise, then based on the specific algorithm generates a signal that will either phase shift or invert the polarity of the original signal. This inverted signal (in antiphase) is then amplified and a transducer creates a sound wave directly proportional to the amplitude of the original waveform creating destructive interference. This will effectively reduce the volume of the perceivable noise.
Active noise control
...Or, just listen to the LSU cheering section
And for other noise in the room:
The development is a special case of the differential microphone topology most commonly used to achieve directionality. All such microphones have at least two ports through which sound enters; a front port normally oriented toward the desired sound and another port that's more distant. The microphone's diaphragm is placed between the two ports; sound arriving from an ambient sound field reaches both ports more or less equally. Sound that's much closer to the front port than to the rear will make more of a pressure gradient between the front and back of the diaphragm, causing it to move more. The microphone's proximity effect is adjusted so that flat frequency response is achieved for sound sources very close to the front of the mic – typically 1 to 3 cm. Sounds arriving from other angles are subject to steep midrange and bass rolloff. Commercially and militarily useful noise-canceling microphones have been made since the 1940s by Roanwell,[1] Electro-Voice and others.
Another technique uses two or more microphones and active or passive circuitry to reduce the noise. The primary microphone is closer to the desired source (like a person's mouth). A second mic receives ambient noise. In a noisy environment, both microphones receive noise at a similar level, but the primary mic receives the desired sounds more strongly. Thus if one signal is subtracted from the other (in the simplest sense, by connecting the microphones out of phase) much of the noise is canceled while the desired sound is retained. Other techniques may be used as well, such as using a directional primary mic, to maximize the difference between the two signals and make the cancellation easier to do.
The internal electronic circuitry of an active noise-canceling mic attempts to subtract noise signal from the primary microphone. The circuit may employ passive or active noise canceling techniques to filter out the noise, producing an output signal that has a lower noise floor and a higher signal-to-noise ratio.
Noise-canceling microphone
Anecdotal
My normal position is 6 feet in front of the HDTV. I frequently use Siri while the TV is running, and rarely have problems.
It may be related to the position of the iP4 Mic, the difference in distance of the sound source... or special programming within the iP4.
The iP4 contains fast graphic cores and a few DSP chips that could be used to cancel ambient noise.
Edit: Found this:
Apple selected leading Audience noise cancellation technology for iPhone 4
Hmm, so what happens when a TV show has a character that says "turn the TV off", "Change the channel", "turn up the volume"?
...
... or worse : Energize !
My normal position is 6 feet in front of the HDTV. I frequently use Siri while the TV is running, and rarely have problems.
It may be related to the position of the iP4 Mic, the difference in distance of the sound source... or special programming within the iP4.
The iP4 contains fast graphic cores and a few DSP chips that could be used to cancel ambient noise.
When you are 6 feet in front of the TV....how close to your mouth are you holding your phone so Siri can complete your commands? Would you hold a mic/remote that clsoe to control your HD TV? Are there other people/family in the room?
Siri (for me anyways) has problems when there are other voices that are close by.....
Here is a link to VLINGO from CES and what they are doing. The Nuance company (Siri technology) seesm to be buying them...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tech...v-viewing.html
Because Siri isn't voice recognition, or even voice control. It's a natural language processing system. So, even if competitors license the same voice recognition system, they won't have "Siri". What Nuance provides is the easy part.
I get that Nuance is just the "easy" voice recognition part of the equation, that's for sure. But it would be a lot harder on Siri competitors if they had no access to Nuance technology.
When you are 6 feet in front of the TV....how close to your mouth are you holding your phone so Siri can complete your commands? Would you hold a mic/remote that clsoe to control your HD TV? Are there other people/family in the room?
Siri (for me anyways) has problems when there are other voices that are close by.....
I just measured it...
The TV is 4 1/2 feet away -- 45 degrees to my left.
The iP4 is 8 inches away -- 60 degrees down towards my lap.
As for ambient noise...
In the family room where the HDTV is located there is an iMac, 1-5 iPads, 1-5 phones, 1-5 iPods, 2 cats, 1 dog, 1-5 people (including 2 teens and a 12-year-old)...
Within earshot are 2 other computers and 2 stereos...
We don't know the meaning of background noise!
Then there's the story about the Frenchman who programmed La Marseillaise as the ringtone on this smart phone.
He was in the bathroom, when the phone rang... The rest is history
Be careful out there!
When you are 6 feet in front of the TV....how close to your mouth are you holding your phone so Siri can complete your commands? Would you hold a mic/remote that clsoe to control your HD TV? Are there other people/family in the room?
Siri (for me anyways) has problems when there are other voices that are close by.....
Here is a link to VLINGO from CES and what they are doing. The Nuance company (Siri technology) seesm to be buying them...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tech...v-viewing.html
Same here. I was in a restaurant and trying to show off Siri. I said a command and she kept thinking or something. Finally what she "heard" popped up and it was my command and a few lines of lyrics from the song in the background. I never even noticed music was on, but she picked up the lyrics.
Hmm, so what happens when a TV show has a character that says "turn the TV off", "Change the channel", "turn up the volume"?
Will the voice recognition be smart enough to know it is the show and not the watcher?
I'm sure if there is a voice controlled system like SIRI that all the sounds coming out from the tv itself will be processed through a system that will cancel out those words and sounds.
Which then only leaves the room to deal with oh and GHOSTS..lol
Don't patronize us.
Hahahaa hilarious! The 'us' indicates the mob culture here is rife! "If you say anything against our beloved Apple, then you must DIE"!! Hahaha
This guy is a long time lurker, he provides a difference of opinion or new angle and he is ousted from the group immediatly for being a defector or something. Pathetic attack on your part Skil. Do you beat up small children for their candy too?
In response to the article, it is clear Apple have once again developed something exciting and superior to everyone else's solution. It has caused everyone to follow them and try to beat it once again. Which they will find difficult cause Apple want to make cool, functional life-enhancing solutions compared to everyone else who is playing catchup. Siri or equivalent capability will surely feature in everything we own from toasters to TV eventually. We'll figure out all the details like familys all talking at once and so on but its clearly a winner system that the world wants to be a part of. Well done Apple.
I got to say that Siri has a hard time with me sometimes. My Brit accent while living in America means i have to use that man voice (urgh) and cant use the Yelp integration. Grrr its right maybe 80% of the time but its early days and will improve. Its exciting to live in such times and experience technology moving at the speed it does. 10 years ago give or tKe i bought a vibrating battery for my nokia 67something. I thought that was cutting edge. The other seek i booked flights on my phone!
Here is a link to VLINGO from CES and what they are doing. The Nuance company (Siri technology) seesm to be buying them...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tech...v-viewing.html
Several things:
1) He held the remote 2-4 inches from his mouth
2) there was no sound emanating from the TV (I guess he just wanted to watch TV -- not to listen to the shows too)
3) there was no ambient noise in the room.
4) mostly, it was analogous to:
-- speak a command
-- speech to text recognition
-- display a list of options
-- repeat
I suspect that Siri will be:
-- more conversational natural language
-- context aware
-- fewer steps - determine what you want and do it, as opposed to search and select drill-down
I have Vlingo -- slightly better than voice commands...
You can search the web and find Vlingo vs Siri (and other) comparisons -- Vlingo does poorly.
I'm sure if there is a voice controlled system like SIRI that all the sounds coming out from the tv itself will be processed through a system that will cancel out those words and sounds.
Which then only leaves the room to deal with oh and GHOSTS..lol
and other people in the room...going through the room......talking on another phone while watching TV.....kids in the room....pets....in the room.....and where would this voice controlled system be housed? In the Tv set it self across the room? In the remote on the coffee table or on your lap or maybe in your hand? Will you have to speak into the remote? How will it get activated to follow your commands?
Several things:
1) He held the remote 2-4 inches from his mouth
2) there was no sound emanating from the TV (I guess he just wanted to watch TV -- not to listen to the shows too)
3) there was no ambient noise in the room.
4) mostly, it was analogous to:
-- speak a command
-- speech to text recognition
-- display a list of options
-- repeat
I suspect that Siri will be:
-- more conversational natural language
-- context aware
-- fewer steps - determine what you want and do it, as opposed to search and select drill-down
I have Vlingo -- slightly better than voice commands...
You can search the web and find Vlingo vs Siri (and other) comparisons -- Vlingo does poorly.
I agree..I have had Vlingo before and it does not work as well as Siri has..... But I like the direction Nuance is going.....if they are buying Vlingo then you can be sure they think Vlingo is onto something....after all they (Nuance) developed Siri technology in the first place
and other people in the room...going through the room......talking on another phone while watching TV.....kids in the room....pets....in the room.....and where would this voice controlled system be housed? In the Tv set it self across the room? In the remote on the coffee table or on your lap or maybe in your hand? Will you have to speak into the remote? How will it get activated to follow your commands?
Clearly we will all have robot assistants that look like Robin Williams to fetch the paper and pour our drinks. They will have those robot voices and dash around on wheels bashing into things.
This is all childs play, in 25 years we'll all be floating around like George Jetson with TV embedded in our electronic eye balls and commanding the world by thought with chips set into our frontal lobes while we fatten up in our floating chairs ready to be crushed by an invading alien force. I guess the president will just 'think' them to death with nukes...is thinking even possible with an American president? They all seem considerably remedial.