Ultrabooks are more than just a second-hand breath of Air
Ultrabooks are only copying Apple because Intel wants the same results Apple is experiencing. Unfortunately, Ultrabook PC makers lack the sophisticated operations and retail presence Apple has, in addition to lacking the halo provided by the iPod, iPhone and iPad.
Like the puns. It seems to me like this has been partly Apple-driven instead of Apple-inspired. It was Apple who urged Intel to lower their chip TDPs. In order for Intel to make that profitable, they have to encourage manufacturers to make designs that accommodate the lower power chips.
The thinner designs also encourage the adoption of Thunderbolt or rather Mini-Displayport/Thunderbolt, which is also Apple-driven.
The blatant copying doesn't help Apple much but having everyone focused on a common goal helps a bit and competing products will find it hard to undercut Apple in price so it levels the price playing field a bit.
The "halo" of the iPhone and iPad are fantastic for Mac. It's what the haters don't understand.
The iPad is the best tablet- no argument there from anyone.
Are there better media organizers than iTunes? Sure.
Can you buy a faster pc than what an iMac or mini can offer? Sure.
Is there a better phone than an iPhone? Debatable- depending on your needs. But on specs- yes.
Better routers and bakup options than a time capsule/airport? Yes
Is roku by itself better than an apple tv? Without question.
But therein lies the problem. I never argue Apple products individually. As a whole, they are top end, but people could argue (and be right) that a roku is better than an ATV. But what they cannot understand- until they are fully immersed In the ecosystem is how much better each product is with the other and how many features are added. The iPhone is great- but WAY better with a Mac (for the cloud). Apple Tv is ok standalone- but with mirroring, iTunes match, etc- it's unbeatable.
These companies will never get it. It's not about making a computer better than MacBook air. That can be done. It's about making things that not only work together, but improve with each component you add. Am I a prisoner to Apple because of this. Yes. But I'm here voluntarily. If there was a better prison, I'd go there. But there isn't anything even remotely close.
I so wanted that Atari Portfolio back when it showed up, though I think my Air is a bit nicer. (And IIRC the Portfolio made an appearance in T2 - hacking the ATM.)
But exactly, nobody claimed Apple had the first flat keyboard, just that PC makers were all avoiding it and Apple managed to get it right in terms of feel and acceptance.
It's like nobody claimed Apple invented aluminum or milling the body of a laptop from 1 piece, but they brought that to the world of laptops - as Intel is now pushing every other PC maker to do. Does that also mean that they're not copying Apple?
and Samsung's Galaxy Note pad-phone with a stylus, were clearly aimed at responding to two of Apple's most successful products.
<...>
That's quite an exaggeration, no way is the Samsung's Galaxy Note related to any product from Apple. Its most prominent qualities -- the 5.3'' screen and the stylus -- are not found in any of Apple's recent products, and many would agree that these features go against Apple's design philosophy.
It is obvious that Samsung continue with their misguided copying of Apple in some other areas, but if you don't give them credit for being inventive where credit is due, your whole argument starts to seem dishonest and agenda-driven.
You really think Macs are selling because people running a retail version of Windows on them?
Absolutely. It makes a big difference to a lot of people:
- Corporate types who are scared to death of Mac OS X. Purchaser can say "if something doesn't work with the Mac, we can always wipe the drive and it runs Windows just fine" to overcome some fears.
- People who want a Mac, but occasionally play games that are not available on the Mac.
- People who want a Mac, but have some obscure Windows program that they have to be able to run. Parallels and Fusion are much more effective solutions than Virtual PC ever was.
I know a lot of Mac users who would not have bought a Mac without the ability to run Windows.
Why do they continue to copy copy copy? When will they realize they will never match Apple at their own game at which they're masters? Go out and design something different better and you (might) succeed in the long term.
Microsoft at least tried that with the windows phone 7, even though it's nothing in comparison to Apple (or Android) they did try.
But that could also be discounted by people like myself, brought into the Apple world through an iPhone, made the switch from years of PCs to a Mac to get AWAY from Windows. The simplicity and intuitiveness that the iPhone demonstrated to me in a mobile device made me reconsider how computers should work. After 20+ years of fighting dozens of Windows machines, I wanted the same experience in personal computing that I suddenly had in mobile computing.
When I purchased my iMac a couple of years ago, I knew it could run Windows, but I didn't want it to run Windows. I'm sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way when I made the Apple shift.
I wonder if anyone has ever did a survey of users who have made the PC to Apple changeover and have never installed Windows on their Mac?
I switched to Mac back in 2005 after the halo effect of iTunes for the PC and then an iPod had sparked my interest. My first Mac was a PoweBook G4 and when I got my first Intel MacBook Pro, I did install Windows after Bootcamp became available. I later installed Windows on my new iMac, but subsequently removed it from both of my machines as I found that I never used it. Though I agree with your sentiment that many of us Mac converts were/are looking to get away from Windows, there is definitely validity to the notion that other Mac converts switched because they knew they had that "safety net" of being able to run Windows if they so chose.
It's like nobody claimed Apple invented aluminum or milling the body of a laptop from 1 piece, but they brought that to the world of laptops - as Intel is now pushing every other PC maker to do. Does that also mean that they're not copying Apple?
I forgot about people claiming that it was no big deal and Apple did nothing unique because milling aluminium had been around for a long time. I did remember that it was considered stupid and pointless over-engineering with the "form over function" quip oft being used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Absolutely. It makes a big difference to a lot of people:
- Corporate types who are scared to death of Mac OS X. Purchaser can say "if something doesn't work with the Mac, we can always wipe the drive and it runs Windows just fine" to overcome some fears.
- People who want a Mac, but occasionally play games that are not available on the Mac.
- People who want a Mac, but have some obscure Windows program that they have to be able to run. Parallels and Fusion are much more effective solutions than Virtual PC ever was.
I know a lot of Mac users who would not have bought a Mac without the ability to run Windows.
CHeck out the graph. There was no distinct spike starting in 2006 when the transition started or 2007 when the transition was complete. It started earlier than that. Also, don't forget that Boot Camp wasn't part of the transition, it came later toward mid-2006 and a Beta.
What you are seeing is a rise from 2004 to 2005, the year before the Intel switch was even announced. The reason is because of the Apple Stores.
People who had never seen a Mac were seeing them in high-traffic, ritzy areas. People who had never had an option to really test them out except in some mistreated, back alley kiosk of CompUSA had the option to finally play with the HW, OS and apps with full access to the internet.
The popularity of iTunes/iPod with Windows users did give users a taste of Apple's style with consumer electronics but plopping down double the amount for a PC that doesn't even come with the OS you expect you'll use isn't the selling point. Apple's growth and popularity would be nothing without the Apple Store influence.
That isn't to say that some people didn't feel as you said and choose to finally pay twice as much on average for a Mac so they could then go out and spend hundreds more on a retail version of Windows they ten have to install themselves along with other software from Apple to make it work on a Mac. That simply isn't how most consumers buy products. They try to simply their lives, especially when paying what feels like a premium prices.
PS: Along with the premium prices Intel offers substantial speed boosts for the mobile platform, where PCs were clearly headed. While most don't follow the benchmarks I'd argue that more Mac owners bought Macs again because of the transition to a better architecture than those that bought Macs in 2006-2007 because they planned to run Windows.
Though I agree with your sentiment that many of us Mac converts were/are looking to get away from Windows, there is definitely validity to the notion that other Mac converts switched because they knew they had that "safety net" of being able to run Windows if they so chose.
I have no doubts that 'safety net' is a reassuring feeling for new Mac users, it's even in their advertisements for reasons to buy a Mac. I thought about installing Windows a few times early on, but once I decided to completely distance my home computing from Windows, all the headache, hassles, and problems I thought were 'normal' with computers went away.
What's that old saying? You can put lipstick on a pig....
I build race cars as a hobby and my favorite quote (similar) is: "You can't make a racehorse out of a pig, but you can still have a pretty fast pig".
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07
A bit like iPhone copy LG Prada?
People still posting this mis-information? iPhone was well under development long before anyone knew of the LG Prada. They were announced within a couple months of each other, long after the designs for both would have been finalized.
Oh, and it's a good thing Apple didn't copy the Prada. That phone was a POS to use, crappy UI and didn't even support multi-touch.
But that could also be discounted by people like myself, brought into the Apple world through an iPhone, made the switch from years of PCs to a Mac to get AWAY from Windows. The simplicity and intuitiveness that the iPhone demonstrated to me in a mobile device made me reconsider how computers should work. After 20+ years of fighting dozens of Windows machines, I wanted the same experience in personal computing that I suddenly had in mobile computing.
When I purchased my iMac a couple of years ago, I knew it could run Windows, but I didn't want it to run Windows. I'm sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way when I made the Apple shift.
I wonder if anyone has ever did a survey of users who have made the PC to Apple changeover and have never installed Windows on their Mac?
I traveled the same road & the journey will be complete on the Jan. 17th. When I receive my MacBook pro!! The feeling like buying a new home, in a upscale neighbor hood. Can't wait!!!
The "halo" of the iPhone and iPad are fantastic for Mac. It's what the haters don't understand.
The iPad is the best tablet- no argument there from anyone.
Are there better media organizers than iTunes? Sure.
Can you buy a faster pc than what an iMac or mini can offer? Sure.
Is there a better phone than an iPhone? Debatable- depending on your needs. But on specs- yes.
Better routers and bakup options than a time capsule/airport? Yes
Is roku by itself better than an apple tv? Without question.
But therein lies the problem. I never argue Apple products individually. As a whole, they are top end, but people could argue (and be right) that a roku is better than an ATV. But what they cannot understand- until they are fully immersed In the ecosystem is how much better each product is with the other and how many features are added. The iPhone is great- but WAY better with a Mac (for the cloud). Apple Tv is ok standalone- but with mirroring, iTunes match, etc- it's unbeatable.
These companies will never get it. It's not about making a computer better than MacBook air. That can be done. It's about making things that not only work together, but improve with each component you add. Am I a prisoner to Apple because of this. Yes. But I'm here voluntarily. If there was a better prison, I'd go there. But there isn't anything even remotely close.
Comments
Are Intel's Ultrabooks the MacBook Heir?
Ultrabooks are more than just a second-hand breath of Air
Ultrabooks are only copying Apple because Intel wants the same results Apple is experiencing. Unfortunately, Ultrabook PC makers lack the sophisticated operations and retail presence Apple has, in addition to lacking the halo provided by the iPod, iPhone and iPad.
Like the puns. It seems to me like this has been partly Apple-driven instead of Apple-inspired. It was Apple who urged Intel to lower their chip TDPs. In order for Intel to make that profitable, they have to encourage manufacturers to make designs that accommodate the lower power chips.
The thinner designs also encourage the adoption of Thunderbolt or rather Mini-Displayport/Thunderbolt, which is also Apple-driven.
The blatant copying doesn't help Apple much but having everyone focused on a common goal helps a bit and competing products will find it hard to undercut Apple in price so it levels the price playing field a bit.
The iPad is the best tablet- no argument there from anyone.
Are there better media organizers than iTunes? Sure.
Can you buy a faster pc than what an iMac or mini can offer? Sure.
Is there a better phone than an iPhone? Debatable- depending on your needs. But on specs- yes.
Better routers and bakup options than a time capsule/airport? Yes
Is roku by itself better than an apple tv? Without question.
But therein lies the problem. I never argue Apple products individually. As a whole, they are top end, but people could argue (and be right) that a roku is better than an ATV. But what they cannot understand- until they are fully immersed In the ecosystem is how much better each product is with the other and how many features are added. The iPhone is great- but WAY better with a Mac (for the cloud). Apple Tv is ok standalone- but with mirroring, iTunes match, etc- it's unbeatable.
These companies will never get it. It's not about making a computer better than MacBook air. That can be done. It's about making things that not only work together, but improve with each component you add. Am I a prisoner to Apple because of this. Yes. But I'm here voluntarily. If there was a better prison, I'd go there. But there isn't anything even remotely close.
THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN... and disagrees with your revisionist history.
I so wanted that Atari Portfolio back when it showed up, though I think my Air is a bit nicer.
But exactly, nobody claimed Apple had the first flat keyboard, just that PC makers were all avoiding it and Apple managed to get it right in terms of feel and acceptance.
It's like nobody claimed Apple invented aluminum or milling the body of a laptop from 1 piece, but they brought that to the world of laptops - as Intel is now pushing every other PC maker to do. Does that also mean that they're not copying Apple?
<...>
and Samsung's Galaxy Note pad-phone with a stylus, were clearly aimed at responding to two of Apple's most successful products.
<...>
That's quite an exaggeration, no way is the Samsung's Galaxy Note related to any product from Apple. Its most prominent qualities -- the 5.3'' screen and the stylus -- are not found in any of Apple's recent products, and many would agree that these features go against Apple's design philosophy.
It is obvious that Samsung continue with their misguided copying of Apple in some other areas, but if you don't give them credit for being inventive where credit is due, your whole argument starts to seem dishonest and agenda-driven.
You really think Macs are selling because people running a retail version of Windows on them?
Absolutely. It makes a big difference to a lot of people:
- Corporate types who are scared to death of Mac OS X. Purchaser can say "if something doesn't work with the Mac, we can always wipe the drive and it runs Windows just fine" to overcome some fears.
- People who want a Mac, but occasionally play games that are not available on the Mac.
- People who want a Mac, but have some obscure Windows program that they have to be able to run. Parallels and Fusion are much more effective solutions than Virtual PC ever was.
I know a lot of Mac users who would not have bought a Mac without the ability to run Windows.
This seems just a little specious, no?
Microsoft at least tried that with the windows phone 7, even though it's nothing in comparison to Apple (or Android) they did try.
But that could also be discounted by people like myself, brought into the Apple world through an iPhone, made the switch from years of PCs to a Mac to get AWAY from Windows. The simplicity and intuitiveness that the iPhone demonstrated to me in a mobile device made me reconsider how computers should work. After 20+ years of fighting dozens of Windows machines, I wanted the same experience in personal computing that I suddenly had in mobile computing.
When I purchased my iMac a couple of years ago, I knew it could run Windows, but I didn't want it to run Windows. I'm sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way when I made the Apple shift.
I wonder if anyone has ever did a survey of users who have made the PC to Apple changeover and have never installed Windows on their Mac?
I switched to Mac back in 2005 after the halo effect of iTunes for the PC and then an iPod had sparked my interest. My first Mac was a PoweBook G4 and when I got my first Intel MacBook Pro, I did install Windows after Bootcamp became available. I later installed Windows on my new iMac, but subsequently removed it from both of my machines as I found that I never used it. Though I agree with your sentiment that many of us Mac converts were/are looking to get away from Windows, there is definitely validity to the notion that other Mac converts switched because they knew they had that "safety net" of being able to run Windows if they so chose.
Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.
Later, copied by Apple.
Finally, further distorted by its fans.
Hard to swallow but it is true.
A bit like iPhone copy LG Prada?
A bit like iPhone copy LG Prada?
No, we're talking about copying that actually happened.
It's like nobody claimed Apple invented aluminum or milling the body of a laptop from 1 piece, but they brought that to the world of laptops - as Intel is now pushing every other PC maker to do. Does that also mean that they're not copying Apple?
I forgot about people claiming that it was no big deal and Apple did nothing unique because milling aluminium had been around for a long time. I did remember that it was considered stupid and pointless over-engineering with the "form over function" quip oft being used.
Absolutely. It makes a big difference to a lot of people:
- Corporate types who are scared to death of Mac OS X. Purchaser can say "if something doesn't work with the Mac, we can always wipe the drive and it runs Windows just fine" to overcome some fears.
- People who want a Mac, but occasionally play games that are not available on the Mac.
- People who want a Mac, but have some obscure Windows program that they have to be able to run. Parallels and Fusion are much more effective solutions than Virtual PC ever was.
I know a lot of Mac users who would not have bought a Mac without the ability to run Windows.
CHeck out the graph. There was no distinct spike starting in 2006 when the transition started or 2007 when the transition was complete. It started earlier than that. Also, don't forget that Boot Camp wasn't part of the transition, it came later toward mid-2006 and a Beta.
What you are seeing is a rise from 2004 to 2005, the year before the Intel switch was even announced. The reason is because of the Apple Stores.
- http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/...2004-2006.html
People who had never seen a Mac were seeing them in high-traffic, ritzy areas. People who had never had an option to really test them out except in some mistreated, back alley kiosk of CompUSA had the option to finally play with the HW, OS and apps with full access to the internet.The popularity of iTunes/iPod with Windows users did give users a taste of Apple's style with consumer electronics but plopping down double the amount for a PC that doesn't even come with the OS you expect you'll use isn't the selling point. Apple's growth and popularity would be nothing without the Apple Store influence.
That isn't to say that some people didn't feel as you said and choose to finally pay twice as much on average for a Mac so they could then go out and spend hundreds more on a retail version of Windows they ten have to install themselves along with other software from Apple to make it work on a Mac. That simply isn't how most consumers buy products. They try to simply their lives, especially when paying what feels like a premium prices.PS: Along with the premium prices Intel offers substantial speed boosts for the mobile platform, where PCs were clearly headed. While most don't follow the benchmarks I'd argue that more Mac owners bought Macs again because of the transition to a better architecture than those that bought Macs in 2006-2007 because they planned to run Windows.
Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.
Later, copied by Apple.
Finally, further distorted by its fans.
Hard to swallow but it is true.
Says the person who owns the same spec laptop as all the rest of the PCs.
Really? I had chick let keys on my Timex Sinclair 2068 back in 1984. Sony, please!
Though I agree with your sentiment that many of us Mac converts were/are looking to get away from Windows, there is definitely validity to the notion that other Mac converts switched because they knew they had that "safety net" of being able to run Windows if they so chose.
I have no doubts that 'safety net' is a reassuring feeling for new Mac users, it's even in their advertisements for reasons to buy a Mac. I thought about installing Windows a few times early on, but once I decided to completely distance my home computing from Windows, all the headache, hassles, and problems I thought were 'normal' with computers went away.
No, we're talking about copying that actually happened.
Well for a second I thought there's someone said Apple copy Sony keyboard.
Well for a second I thought there's someone said Apple copy Sony keyboard.
Oh, I see. Your example makes perfect sense now.
What's that old saying? You can put lipstick on a pig....
I build race cars as a hobby and my favorite quote (similar) is: "You can't make a racehorse out of a pig, but you can still have a pretty fast pig".
A bit like iPhone copy LG Prada?
People still posting this mis-information? iPhone was well under development long before anyone knew of the LG Prada. They were announced within a couple months of each other, long after the designs for both would have been finalized.
Oh, and it's a good thing Apple didn't copy the Prada. That phone was a POS to use, crappy UI and didn't even support multi-touch.
But that could also be discounted by people like myself, brought into the Apple world through an iPhone, made the switch from years of PCs to a Mac to get AWAY from Windows. The simplicity and intuitiveness that the iPhone demonstrated to me in a mobile device made me reconsider how computers should work. After 20+ years of fighting dozens of Windows machines, I wanted the same experience in personal computing that I suddenly had in mobile computing.
When I purchased my iMac a couple of years ago, I knew it could run Windows, but I didn't want it to run Windows. I'm sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way when I made the Apple shift.
I wonder if anyone has ever did a survey of users who have made the PC to Apple changeover and have never installed Windows on their Mac?
I traveled the same road & the journey will be complete on the Jan. 17th. When I receive my MacBook pro!! The feeling like buying a new home, in a upscale neighbor hood. Can't wait!!!
The "halo" of the iPhone and iPad are fantastic for Mac. It's what the haters don't understand.
The iPad is the best tablet- no argument there from anyone.
Are there better media organizers than iTunes? Sure.
Can you buy a faster pc than what an iMac or mini can offer? Sure.
Is there a better phone than an iPhone? Debatable- depending on your needs. But on specs- yes.
Better routers and bakup options than a time capsule/airport? Yes
Is roku by itself better than an apple tv? Without question.
But therein lies the problem. I never argue Apple products individually. As a whole, they are top end, but people could argue (and be right) that a roku is better than an ATV. But what they cannot understand- until they are fully immersed In the ecosystem is how much better each product is with the other and how many features are added. The iPhone is great- but WAY better with a Mac (for the cloud). Apple Tv is ok standalone- but with mirroring, iTunes match, etc- it's unbeatable.
These companies will never get it. It's not about making a computer better than MacBook air. That can be done. It's about making things that not only work together, but improve with each component you add. Am I a prisoner to Apple because of this. Yes. But I'm here voluntarily. If there was a better prison, I'd go there. But there isn't anything even remotely close.
Well said!!
A bit like iPhone copy LG Prada?
More like LG Prada copy iPhone.