Reacting to Apple at CES 2012: Intel's Ultrabooks to Samsung's Galaxy Note

1356

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 104
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN... and disagrees with your revisionist history.



    Quoting an editable (by anyone) information source is not a conclusive evidence.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post


    Mate, where does he say that the chicklet keyboard was invented by Apple??



    If Apple use it and others don't in general, then it can be fairly called "Apple-style" for the sake of discussion. And I'm guessing it was "panned by a lot of PC'ers" because you haven't denied that bit....



    Your post is an attempt at a straw man argument and thus irrelevant to his point, which still stands unanswered by you.



    The only distortion going on here is your distortion of his statement for the sake of what you believe to be true....



    He/she may not have SPECIFICALLY have said Apple invented chicklet keyboard but he is certain referencing it by his tone of his statement. Stop trying to wiggle out of this one.
  • Reply 42 of 104
    larryalarrya Posts: 606member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.



    Later, copied by Apple.



    Finally, further distorted by its fans.




    Hard to swallow but it is true.







    Says the person who owns the same spec laptop as all the rest of the PCs.





    ..clearly posted by someone too young to remember the TRS-80 Color Computer.
  • Reply 43 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.



    Later, copied by Apple.



    Finally, further distorted by its fans.




    Hard to swallow but it is true.



    Sony started using a similar keyboard on its high end Vaios in 2004-2005, but those models weren't selling in quantity. Also, most of its product line was still using conventional keyboards.



    Apple had been using super thin keyboards since at least the 2001 Titanium PowerBook, and many PC types were complaining that they had "too little travel."



    In 2006 Apple introduced the new Intel MacBook with a low profile keyboard that separated the keys ("Island style") with a margin around them, something that left it looking new and distinctive (in part because nobody had seen the Sony keyboards, which were looked different than those used on the MacBook).



    It's therefore not surprising that people call this a "MacBook keyboard." It's also not too surprising that PCs use components that Apple popularized. But the point is that Apple created the entire look of notebooks, from palm rests and a mouse/trackpad in front of them in the early 90s PowerBooks to the low profile keyboard of the TiBook in 2001 to the Island keyboard of the MacBook in 2006 to the Unibody aluminum design of MacBook Air in 2008 (as well as backlight keyboards, black/metal looks, and so on).



    It's obvious that Ultrabooks are trying to copy Apple's notebooks that are selling. What's interesting is that PC users have generally complained about everything Apple does until a PC version comes out, when they then adopt it. That's silly. I don't hear Mac users complaining about PC features that Macs don't have. They just complain that Apple hasn't added it yet.



    As for Wikipedia, there is zero correlation between "chicklet" keyboards of the early 80s and the (Sony built?) Island style key spacing of modern, mechanical keyboards. Why some idiot put them in the same story is an example of why Wikipedia is a poor source of information. It is really only useful as a compendium of information taken from actual, cited sources.
  • Reply 44 of 104
    normmnormm Posts: 653member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony. Later, copied by Apple.



    Apple is using exactly the same atoms and molecules as everyone else. They didn't invent a single new atom. So what is this nonsense about others copying Apple's MacBook Air? Apple just markets the same old atoms better to its deluded tiny fanbase.
  • Reply 45 of 104
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    As usual, Apple innovates and virtually everybody else shamelessly rips off Apple's designs and comes out with their own junk that looks like cheap, inferior copies of Apple's designs.



    Ultrabooks? Some of them look like fucking cheapass copies of Macbook Airs. What kind of fool would buy something like that?



    I expect a moron or two to come along here and claim that there is only so many ways that you can make a laptop, just like some retards like to claim that there's only so many ways that you can make a tablet. Nothing looked like the Macbook Air when it first came out, and now many companies all have their own inferior, piece of shit Macbook Air clones.



    The fact of the matter is that many of Apple's products have a very distinct design and when you see products from other companies coming out years later that look very, very similar to Apple's designs, there is no doubt as to who they have been copying from. Only an ignoramus would attempt to argue with that.



    I'm glad though that many PC laptops still keep their trackpad off center, because that looks disgusting and highly unusable, not to mention that the trackpad itself is probably around a decade behind Apple's trackpad technology. The typical PC user would never notice the difference though, as they're used to using junk, and if somebody has never experienced the best, then how would they know what they're missing?
  • Reply 46 of 104
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    Quoting an editable (by anyone) information source is not a conclusive evidence



    Uneditable information isn't conclusive evidence either. What is conclusive are the details and images that are backed up by citations and can be researched independently.



    You have shown absolutely no facts that Sony invented the style you name or that the very clear images are doctored, false or anything else you might claim.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


    As for Wikipedia, there is zero correlation between "chicklet" keyboards of the early 80s and the (Sony built?) Island style key spacing of modern, mechanical keyboards. Why some idiot put them in the same story is an example of why Wikipedia is a poor source of information. It is really only useful as a compendium of information taken from actual, cited sources.



    He stated invented and gave two very specific names for the style he was referring to. He is wrong. You are wrong. You're also ignorant to think that Wikipedia can't be a good resource. Wikipedia is a great starting place but if you can't put in the minimal effort to corroborate its information then that's your problem.



    There are plenty of data points on that page to show first usage of the keyboard style and none of them are from Sony. it doesn't prove invention and doesn't rule out that Sony didn't have a patent for such a keyboard in 1970, but it does show that Sony didn't invent it for the machines he implied. There is a very specific citation that appears to be from a 1984 magazine that describes the keys as Chiclet.
  • Reply 47 of 104
    herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,228member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    You really think Macs are selling because people running a retail version of Windows on them?



    Having the option to run windows is a major argument in sellling macs to windows users, like it or not.
  • Reply 48 of 104
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herbapou View Post


    Having the option to run windows is a major argument in sellling macs to windows users, like it or not.



    Major argument isn't the same as a major reason. I'm not buying the argument that Apple Stores are less influential in selling Macs than Microsoft Windows. We can see a clear upward trend that starts after Apple Stores were established but before Boot Camp existed.
  • Reply 49 of 104
    mauszmausz Posts: 243member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


    But the point is that Apple created the entire look of notebooks, from palm rests and a mouse/trackpad in front of them in the early 90s PowerBooks



    Maybe you should just read History of laptops before even claiming apple created the notebook look...



    there you can also see the first apple notebooks had a trackball on the side (later on front).



    Only in 1994 Apple licensed the trackpad technology and included it in their laptops.



    Apple has a nose for new technology (and often licenses it (arm), or buys it (intrinsity, fingerworks)), combined with remembering their successes and forgetting their failures lead to a false sense of 'apple created/invented everything'....



    Any discussion about this quickly leads to : oh no, they re-invented it, or they popularized it. Both are completely different things.
  • Reply 50 of 104
    jakebjakeb Posts: 562member
    Wow. That's some blatant copying.
  • Reply 51 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    You really think Macs are selling because people running a retail version of Windows on them?



    I believe it is likely that when some consider migrating to Apple Mac the ability to use Microsoft Office: for Mac natively or dual boot or have a virtual Microsoft OS is comforting.



    Despite this, I believe only a fool can deny that Apple has the most advanced OS platform available. No other company provides the same OS platform for so many form factors: personal computers (Macs), phones (iPhones), portable media players (iPod), tablets (iPad), streaming media players (AppleTV), Wi-Fi routers (AirPort). The Apple OS platform readily adapts to the specialized feature set and workflow for each purpose.
  • Reply 52 of 104
    mauszmausz Posts: 243member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


    I believe it is likely that when some consider migrating to Apple Mac the ability to use Microsoft Office: for Mac natively or dual boot or have a virtual Microsoft OS is comforting.



    Despite this, I believe only a fool can deny that Apple has the most advanced OS platform available. No other company provides the same OS platform for so many form factors: personal computers (Macs), phones (iPhones), portable media players (iPod), tablets (iPad), streaming media players (AppleTV), Wi-Fi routers (AirPort). The Apple OS platform readily adapts to the specialized feature set and workflow for each purpose.



    Linux as well or should I say Unix and include OSX/iOS as well



    edit : my bad, you said company...
  • Reply 53 of 104
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member
    A very important reason why more and more people are buying Macs, and one feature that few companies can emulate, is the Apple stores.



    My technophobic friends are taking their Windows laptops (not to mention BBs) into Apple stores and come out with MBAs loaded most essential files.



    This is the most oft-forgotten part of the Apple ecosystem.
  • Reply 54 of 104
    shompashompa Posts: 343member
    The Intel/Apple relationship is interesting. I haven't read any rumors/info about it in long time.



    Apple and Intel signed a five year exclusive agreement in 2005-2006. Intel provided CPUs + designed Apples motherboards. Intel also did special CPU designs like the original Macbook Air CPU and gave Apple often a couple of month of head start using new CPUs.



    The last 2 years we have seen the Apple/Intel romance falter. First it was Intel's arrogance that locked out other motherboard board vendors from using Intels CPUs. Apple needed a good GPU on the motherboard since the OS is accelerated in GPU since OSX 10.2. Intel's integrated graphic wasn't good enough.



    Apple and Intel had a feud. Apple refused to use the latest Intel CPUs since there where no good GPU inside it. Apple requested i7/i5 processors without the integrated GPU since Apple didn't want to use it. Intel refaced. This lead to Apple using Core 2 way to long and Apple started to talk to AMD.



    The Apple/AMD deal fell thru when AMD could not guarantee over 1 million APUs per month to Apple. Apples backup plan went into effect. ARM OSX.



    The question is: Have Apple and Intel signed a new agreement? No? This explains how hostile Intel are today. Intel knows that Apple have an ARM version of OSX. HardMac reported in May 2010 that Apple are merging iOS and OSX.



    Intel is now sponsoring ultrabooks to compete with Macbook air. This would be irrelevant for Intel if Apple would use Intel CPUs in the feature. Intel does not care about the brand of the computer that sells their CPUs. Since Apple already have ARM prototype laptops, Intel believes that Apple is going to switch to ARM.



    This is Intel fault since they have gone lazy. Since 2006 they have not had any competition from AMD. Since 2006 Intel have increased performance on their CPUs with a bit under 100%.



    At the same time ARM have increased its performance 17 times. We are now at a point there the difference in speed is irrelevant for almost all applications especially since you can do better/more efficient programming on RISC/PPC then with 40 year old X86. Apple are specialists in this using Altivec/SIMD/GPU and DSPs that are fare faster then CPU.



    Intel is seeing the Apple effect. Like many other companies before, Apple is going to make old legacy companies irrelevant.



    Intel will be a niche CPU maker exactly like other greedy CPU brands before them: SPARC, PPC, Power and so on. All these CPUs are better/faster then Intel, but Intel have been able to sell fast enough CPUs cheaper and drove these platforms into niche market.



    Intel have too long hold out to make their insane 80%+ profit on CPUs that are made of sand. ARMs idea is to sell billions of licensed cores each quarter and make small profit on each. About 6 cent per core. Compare that to Intel's insane prices. The best Intel CPUs costs today 4400dollar/each.



    Windows/Intel can play with Ultrabooks that costs 1K dollar. (where Intel's cut is 500).

    Apple/Arm can play with Macbook Air that will cost 600 dollar. (where the SoC cost 25 dollar)
  • Reply 55 of 104
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kpluck View Post


    Windows 8 on ARM sounded interesting when Microsoft first told everyone about it but since then things have changed. MS has already said ARM versions of Windows 8 won't run x86 code. Developers will have to port their apps to the ARM platform.



    If MS was smart (and we know the answer to that question) they would dump Windows 8 for ARM and focus on developing a tablet version of their Windows phone OS. I don't understand why anyone would want to run Windows 8 on any hardware if they can't run their standard Windows 8 apps on that hardware.



    -kpluck





    Special version of ms office you have to buy another license for or pay for office 365



    Office is the cash cow
  • Reply 56 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post




    That's what is happening in the real world. People that have never been exposed to Apple products are usually brought into the Apple world by either an iPhone, or iPod, and now, the iPad. They buy that gateway product, then realize how amazing it is, and start thinking about a Mac. When they discover they can run windows on it, that's the clincher. Now, they don't NEED to run windows necessarily, but they know they can. THAT is Apples secret weapon. Apple just needs to remember that.



    Everybody I know who owns a Mac switched from years of PC use to get Windows out of their lives.



    I know not a single Mac owner who would run windows on their machine.

    I`m not saying there are none but it`s most definitely not a motivator to buy Mac.



    The only real influence Windows has on Mac sales are people trying to get away from the virus ridden blue screen spitting crap of an OS.
  • Reply 57 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    A very important reason why more and more people are buying Macs, and one feature that few companies can emulate, is the Apple stores.



    My technophobic friends are taking their Windows laptops (not to mention BBs) into Apple stores and come out with MBAs loaded most essential files.



    This is the most oft-forgotten part of the Apple ecosystem.



    This is key.



    I was at an Apple store last month getting AppleCare+ for my Verizon iPhone that I received in the mail. I had an appointment at 10am.



    At 10am... the mall barely had anyone in it... but the Apple Store was packed.



    Here's what was going on:



    - 9 people sitting at the Genius Bar getting a lesson about email on their iPads

    - a couple getting MS Office installed on their MacBook Pro

    - a guy brought in his iMac for a lesson in Final Cut X

    - plus various other teaching sessions around the store



    No other platform offers that level of service and support.



    Also... at 10am most of the stores at the mall were just opening their gates... while the Apple Store already had tons of traffic.
  • Reply 58 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    Special version of ms office you have to buy another license for or pay for office 365



    Office is the cash cow



    Yep. And when Apple allows or M$ creates office for ipad, they'll be making even more cash. As it stands, there is now OnLive for the ipad, which is a free app with 2gb of virtual space to work office on your ipad. And it actually works pretty well! I got my invite into it this morning.
  • Reply 59 of 104
    While they can they don't. I work as an IT consultant and am responsible for buying computers, among other things. That you can run Windows is not a compelling reason to buy a Mac of any kind. People just don't reinstall the OS. While you can install Windows it makes no sense when you can buy a PC with Windows, all drivers and full support.



    The bad arguments that people are buying Macs to install Windows may be true for a small enthusiast group and in some very specific instances. I've seen Windows installed using Boot Camp but even then OS X was running every time I walked by.



    I can't speak about percentages of people who are installing Windows but I can tell you my experiences with, oh, 50 companies in the last 5 years or so since the surge of Macs in the workplace. People are buying them because they are getting choices and deciding they prefer the design and weight of MacBooks and Airs and the elegance and clutter free, gorgeous iMac which just works.



    The migration of data to the cloud, open standards (I'll include ActiveSync there even though it's really just a free license controlled by MS) are the primary reasons. The consumerization of IT is either an affect of Apple's success or just a happy timing coincidence. I'm not sure which. Also, with ADmitMac and nice AD integration Macs are able to fit into Windows networks and get full support from even the most Windows-centric support teams.
  • Reply 60 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herbapou View Post


    Having the option to run windows is a major argument in sellling macs to windows users, like it or not.



    As long as the clown called Ballmer is at M$'s helm, windows is slowly going to die away anyway and soon nowbody will care wether any windows crap will be running on a Mac.
Sign In or Register to comment.