Amazon "defined and dominated" low-end tablet market with 6 million Kindle Fires

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  • Reply 81 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by esummers View Post


    Apple could probably provide a lower end iPad that performs reasonably well sometime in the next year without usability sacrifices to add competition on the (previously nonexistent) low-end of the market.



    I think it may be more interesting if Apple creates a scaled up version of the iPod Touch to compete with the fire. No iPad apps, but would work fine for iBooks, movies and games. The retina display resolution on the iPod touch gives them a lot of leeway to create a 7" device with a reasonable (non-retina) resolution. With all the rumors of a 7" iPad, I wonder if Apple may be experimenting with a larger iPod Touch. Downsizing the iPad doesn't make any sense because that would put a lot of extra burden on developers. Making the iPod touch larger would just work. I bet Apple could match (or at least be in the ballpark of) the price of the fire without subsidizing. I think it makes sense to have a big and small iPod touch and a retina and non-retina iPad. A big iPod touch would work well as a gateway device before getting a real iPad and it would also be appealing to families buying devices for children.



    Of course if Apple didn't respond at all, the Fire could work to kill innovation in the Android market because developers would have no incentive to target the last two major releases of Android. However, this may just work in the short run. It would make sense that Amazon would refresh the Fire with newer hardware eventually and update the operating system to something newer. Regardless, Amazon may completely take over the Android market. That isn't necessarily good for Apple because it would provide a strong competitor instead of many weak competitors. It also isn't good for Google, but I don't see a clear way Google will come out ahead in the tablet market no matter what happens.



    As I look at the success Apple is enjoying with iPad2, and with Steve Jobs ref to 7" is too small ... I am of the opinion Apple won't react to "FIRE" as too small, too cheap, no profit. They don't have to. I certain appreciate how most of the comment folks want more for less ... but in the real world, that is not Apple's approach. Apple is expanding into schools, and enterprise in a huge way. And Siri is just the tip of the iceberg... has search potential that is really scary for Google. Notice they just introduced e-textbooks. They have security features that enterprise absolutely needs and requires. Android is trouble in the malware department.



    So Apple is coming out with a major upgrade again ... better resolution, faster processor and graphics, better for Medical, graphics and Mapping services. Notice how the office like functionality is showing up in Apps. Wireless connectivity and iCloud will be huge for enterprise for sync. Backup is still up for grabs as the phone carriers control these communication pathways, and all they want to do is take your money and slow down the date rates, because the networks get over whelmed quickly with large data volume transfer.



    Put your business hats on people, not just your consumer low income wishes.
  • Reply 82 of 126
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RegurgitatedCoprolite View Post


    Wow! Six million KFs, each sold at a loss. Impressive.



    No, six million shipped, as in some number of those didn't sell during the quarter. Those unsold units will either reduce shipments in future quarters or get returned for an even bigger loss.



    Until someone can publish actual sales numbers or at least continuing shipments over several quarters to show the steady state sell-thru, these are all just bad and mostly useless guesses.
  • Reply 83 of 126
    Talk of a 7" iPod Touch to me doesn't equal a $200 Kindle Fire-like price point. The base model iPod Touch is already $200. If Apple were to come out with a fabled 7" iPod Touch I would imagine it would come out to at least $350 for the base model. I don't think that entices customers to shell out the extra $150 to stay with Apple when they can save it and get the Fire. Even if they were to remove the retina display I think the doubling of the screen size doesn't keep the price within range. With the margins Apple likes to see a new product competing with the Kindle Fire doesn't seem viable at this point.



    I think they're conceding the low-end table market. Or to put it better, not considering the low-end tablet market.



    Just like the BMW-Kia comparison..BMW's lowest priced new vehicle starts at $30K. They feel no need to jump into the low-end car market. They get their margins and they're seen as a high-dollar high-quality brand.
  • Reply 84 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post


    I think they're conceding the low-end table market. Or to put it better, not considering the low-end tablet market.



    Just like the BMW-Kia comparison..BMW's lowest priced new vehicle starts at $30K. They feel no need to jump into the low-end car market. They get their margins and they're seen as a high-dollar high-quality brand.



    Totally agree. Apple are already in the low-end market... with the Touch/iPhone.



    Anything in-between would erode their market share in the premium market.
  • Reply 85 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac-Daddy View Post


    Come on people, give credit when credit is due. All I'm reading on here is sour grapes. Being able to sell 6,000,000 of anything is impressive. Period.



    I heard another analyst say that Amazon was projected to sell 8,000,000 Fires... so 6,000,000 is a very big disappointment...



    Actually, most observations based on Amazon's claims are that 2,000,000 - 3,000,000 Fires were sold to end users and the reseller channel.



    The fact that some analyst can pull an unsubstantiated number like 6,000,000 out of the air and have others accept this as fact... ...is disturbing... very disturbing!



    So, I'll take the second analyst's 8,000,000 and raise it to 10,000,000...





    Now, compare that to 15,400,000 substantiated iPad sales ...



    Some will claim that the Fire's 10,000,000 number is 65% of iPad sales...





    See how easy and stupid that is?



  • Reply 86 of 126
    aaarrrggghaaarrrgggh Posts: 1,609member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post


    I have seen 2-3 in steady use at the local coffee shop. Still greatly outnumbered by iPads but a respectable showing and the users seem to like the Fire.



    I have seen two in "regular use." One was the kid at Starbucks who looks like he gets beaten up a lot already... and the KF won't help matters.



    The other was a woman on the plane who didn't think she could get an iPad because they use a PC. (She benefits from a smaller device given that she stuffs it in her purse.)
  • Reply 87 of 126
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post


    Talk of a 7" iPod Touch to me doesn't equal a $200 Kindle Fire-like price point. The base model iPod Touch is already $200. If Apple were to come out with a fabled 7" iPod Touch I would imagine it would come out to at least $350 for the base model.



    Historically, Apple releases new updates (even massive updates) at the previous price points. When the iPod Video came out, was it more expensive than the previous model? Was the iPod touch significantly more expensive than the iPod Video? No to both.



    I could easily see Apple releasing an iPod touch at 6", keeping the same price points. Component prices have fallen, and the iPod touch is currently overpriced (I mean, it's a 3.5" device; a 10" iPad only costs about twice as much). Even if it went up a little bit, a $249 or $279 6" iPod touch would hurt the Kindle.



    Question is, would they keep the current iPod touch around and drop it to $149 for an 8GB version?
  • Reply 88 of 126
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by realwarder View Post


    Totally agree. Apple are already in the low-end market... with the Touch/iPhone.



    Anything in-between would erode their market share in the premium market.





    What the iPhone is the most exspensive phone on the market today. Here in Switzerland it costs 550 CHF for a unlocked Samsung Galaxy Note and a whopping 780 CHF for a unlocked iPhone 4S. I wouldn't say that the iPhone is considered low-end, it's very, very high-end which is what makes it great. Even the iPod Touch are considered high-end and are more exspensive then most other PMP's out their, in that form factor of course. The low end would be the Shuffle.
  • Reply 89 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post


    What the iPhone is the most exspensive phone on the market today. Here in Switzerland it costs 550 CHF for a unlocked Samsung Galaxy Note and a whopping 780 CHF for a unlocked iPhone 4S. I wouldn't say that the iPhone is considered low-end, it's very, very high-end which is what makes it great. Even the iPod Touch are considered high-end and are more exspensive then most other PMP's out their, in that form factor of course. The low end would be the Shuffle.



    Americans don't look at it like that at all. Americans buy their phones subsidized. To an American the iPhone is $199 and the contract isn't taken into account at all.
  • Reply 90 of 126
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


    Apple margin on the iPad is high. Why would they want to get a lower margin on a smaller device?



    If anything, the low-end iPad 2 will be discounted by $100-$150 when the next iPad comes out. Right there it'll be about $350-400 and entice potential Kindle owners.



    The market place has spoken, the iPad in its current price/form is winning the tablet market. The 5" and 7" tablets have failed to knock Apple from its perch.



    well, i'm talking about a scaled-up iPod touch, not a scaled-down iPad. i think we all agree the iPad OS and apps can't be shrunken down successfully. but of course the iPhone OS and apps can be enlarged somewhat and still be great to use. games, media, and web browsing especially. and if Apple has a decent profit on the $199 iPod touch now, it should have a bigger profit margin on a $299 5.5" version, since the only added parts costs are the larger screen and bigger battery really.



    and 7" is still too large to be really portable for many, but the 5" range is for most.



    until there is an Apple mid-sized tablet of some kind that we then observe how well it sells, the market has not yet finished speaking.
  • Reply 91 of 126
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


    Historically, Apple releases new updates (even massive updates) at the previous price points. When the iPod Video came out, was it more expensive than the previous model? Was the iPod touch significantly more expensive than the iPod Video? No to both.



    I could easily see Apple releasing an iPod touch at 6", keeping the same price points. Component prices have fallen, and the iPod touch is currently overpriced (I mean, it's a 3.5" device; a 10" iPad only costs about twice as much). Even if it went up a little bit, a $249 or $279 6" iPod touch would hurt the Kindle.



    Question is, would they keep the current iPod touch around and drop it to $149 for an 8GB version?



    sure they would. today's touch is clearly replacing the iPod as Apple's main PMP very successfully.
  • Reply 92 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    The poorer the quality of the meat -- the more spices you put on it!



    I like this analogy, and further think that there are times when I want to pay a premium for a Kobe rib-eye and times when I want a good burger. Both always completely fulfill my needs when I want them, but they aren't the same thing. I need both to satisfy my appetite for things that go "moo", so "Go Apple" *and* "Go Amazon!"
  • Reply 93 of 126
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,885member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post


    I`m an Apple fan but am heavily invested in the Amazon ecosystem and I`m telling you this strategy is making them money.



    Really, based on your sample size of one you are going to declare that the Fire is making money?
  • Reply 94 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Absolutely nothing to see here, people.



    that's what Novell said....the wolves are always at the door....
  • Reply 95 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post


    that's what Novell said....the wolves are always at the door....



    They can huff and puff all they want, but as long as they're just claiming to be blowing without actually doing it, I'm not worried.
  • Reply 96 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    They can huff and puff all they want, but as long as they're just claiming to be blowing without actually doing it, I'm not worried.



    why would you be worried anyway? apple is not the 'underdog' or even the 'misfit' anymore. it is the new Disney and HP
  • Reply 97 of 126
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post


    If you're an Amazon Prime member (and all Kindle Fires come with a trial), then you get a lot of free books and movies. It's a very good deal, and it absolutely does keep customers coming back and spending money on other things.



    I love my Kindle Fire and over the course of the year, I'm sure it will get Amazon a profit. The device is a loss leader, yes, but it serves as an entry point into their media ecosystem.



    I would be surprised if people didn't buy the vast majority of Fires directly from Amazon, so "shipped" here is probably a better estimate than most other Android tablets. (Better, mind you ? not perfect.)



    How is it a better estimate if Amazon isn't providing the numbers?
  • Reply 98 of 126
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post


    I have no idea why y`all keep bashing this little tablet.



    I`m an Apple fan but am heavily invested in the Amazon ecosystem and I`m telling you this strategy is making them money.



    I`ve spent a couple hours on one of these things and they`re fast, intuitive, and sensitive.



    It`s actually the best Android tablet I`ve seen yet.



    Until Amazon tells us the actual numbers, your comment is strictly your opinion, which is not based on any verifiable facts.
  • Reply 99 of 126
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I think the analyst is way off...



    At least 10mm KFCs are sold every week and 40% of those are extra crispy



    All finger licking good too.
  • Reply 100 of 126
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by realwarder View Post


    Personally, I see meeting 40% of the Apple shipments as being a _massive_ win for Amazon. Not 'just a fraction'. A big fraction.



    Apple is entrenched in this market and for an outsider to come in and be selling close to 50% of the number of devices overnight is an amazing achievement in such a short time. Amazon will be very happy.



    And why did they sell so many? As someone who actually has one, they are very neat devices. Sure, the iPad is better. It had better be given the price difference, but the gap is not as large as the price difference.



    Personally I hope the iPad 3 is an amazing bit of technology placing Apple clearly back in the lead. The iPhone 4S was a disappointment - not something Apple should be repeating.



    How is it a big win when Amazon loses money selling them? It is still a BIG gamble by Amazon and only time will show if Amazon's strategy will prove to be successful or just a very expensive mistake.
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