New Sony CEO looking to shift to Apple-like integration of hardware, software [u]

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    techboytechboy Posts: 183member
    It took someone long enough to acknowledge what Apple is doing is actually working well. I think for the longest time, people view Apple as "oh, they got lucky, this ipod and ipad stuff won't last long"... Jobs has proven people wrong before and he done it again. I think the fact, we are seeing Google and MS copying varies aspects of Apple's products and failed to copied their strategies is the funniest part for me. Apple had Jobs, they can't copy that.
  • Reply 22 of 49
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post


    A friend of mine bought a SOny LCD TV and was very upset with the performance of it. He ended up sticking it away in a spare bedroom and buying a better brand. In my opinion SOny doesn't get it any more. Maybe we will see what they have to offer in the next 5 years. I for june don't plan to ever buy sony products ever.



    He should've gotten a plasma.
  • Reply 23 of 49
    So far this is the decade of companies announcing they will be more like Apple.
  • Reply 24 of 49
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post


    I fear though that when they talk about Apple-like integration of hardware and software, i.e. the whole widget approach, they'll start thinking that this validates their addiction to proprietary media formats. [Which is Sony's answer to the question that only they seem to be interested in: How can we alienate potential customers who are otherwise already impressed by the quality of our hardware?]









    That has seemed to be Sony's MO since forever.



    They think that proprietary equals innovative. Apple uses only open source formats.
  • Reply 25 of 49
    diddydiddy Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


    Apple uses only open source formats.



    Really? I can cite several formats that are unique to Apple and are in no way open source whatsoever. Namely all of their iWork formats, their database programs (Bento and Filemaker). The list goes on. Apple may use lots of stuff that is open source, but lots and lots of things are closed source and propriety.
  • Reply 26 of 49
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by diddy View Post


    Really? I can cite several formats that are unique to Apple and are in no way open source whatsoever. Namely all of their iWork formats, their database programs (Bento and Filemaker). The list goes on. Apple may use lots of stuff that is open source, but lots and lots of things are closed source and propriety.



    Maybe I was thinking that Apple won't sell anything that includes DRM, and got mixed up.
  • Reply 27 of 49
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post


    So far this is the decade of companies announcing they will be more like Apple.



    Yes, after so many years of hearing the words "open" , "choice"' "walled garden", "locked in", from the nerds and detractors these companies are moving to be more like Apple, not less. It makes the nerds look even more stupid than they already are.
  • Reply 28 of 49
    red oakred oak Posts: 1,078member
    Because he did such a good job building a great PlayStation Network service.... He's controlled both the hardware and software for years. One division and one product. And it really sucks



    This company is in a dire situation
  • Reply 29 of 49
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    If Sony really wants to pursue an "Apple-like" integration of hardware & software, they can start by owning the software and making it an extension of the hardware they are making, instead of signing up for Google's party (or for that matter, Microsoft's).



    Would the purchase of WebOS given them a start? Or is that considered a dead end?
  • Reply 30 of 49
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post


    Kaz Hirai is 51!! He looks much younger.



    Watch it, sonny... 51 is young.
  • Reply 31 of 49
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post




    "We can't continue selling TV sets [the way we have been]. Every TV set we all make loses money," Stringer said of the industry last November.



    Hey, Amazon claims it can! Why can't Sony?



  • Reply 32 of 49
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,072member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eric475 View Post


    If you don't buy from Samsung as principle, I understand that. But the LCD panel in your Sony was made from a Samsung factory. Sony doesn't make LCD panels.



    Yep, true. But I can't really avoid Samsung's components anyhow... The panel is absolutely fine, good colors, pretty even backlight, the problem is that Sony either does skimp on the processor, or the quality of the software is terrible, or both - I have not got the tools required to figure it out. A product like that should not leave the factory, not even the design stage.



    I was too lazy to deal with all the paperwork required to bring my Loewe into the country. That was a mistake.
  • Reply 33 of 49
    Sony = Sometime, Only Not Yet



    Seriously, though, they needed to get out of the movie business. It's been a drag on the company.



    Sony products are inflicted upon me at work. They did not used to be this way in the U-Matic, Betacam, and Betacam SP days. Then, you paid a pile of money for the Sony name, but at least the build quality was fantastic



    Now, I view them the way I view a dog. They smile and wag their tails at me, and make me think things are okay as I pat them on the head. Then, when I turn my back, they bite me in the @$$.



    Using Sony products these days is like having a kid. I could go on, but hopefully, you get it.
  • Reply 34 of 49
    Sony might actually be able to do it. They've taken full control of their phone business last October 2011 by buying back the Swedish venture shares from Ericsson for $920M. Check out their new Sony Xperia S and see what it can do. http://youtu.be/RUdXtQuL4fA
  • Reply 35 of 49
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post


    A friend of mine bought a SOny LCD TV and was very upset with the performance of it. He ended up sticking it away in a spare bedroom and buying a better brand. In my opinion SOny doesn't get it any more. Maybe we will see what they have to offer in the next 5 years. I for june don't plan to ever buy sony products ever.



    The problem with Sony televisions, like most brands, including Samsung, Sony doesn't any longer control the whole process. It outsources panels from a variety of sources, and doesn't maintain tight control over the process. Also like Samsung, the only panels it makes are on its very high end models. Samsung also makes the LCD on its display models, but outsources most of the LCDs for the actual product you buy. So what you see at home often isn't what you saw in the store (there are plenty of upset Samsung customers on the Internet documenting this experience). Sharp is the only manufacturer that builds its own LCDs. Sharp also has been making the panels longer than anybody else.



    Part of the reason Apple was able to turn itself around was Jobs was wiling to make brave bet the company decisions. Jobs first made Apple much smaller by cutting entire product divisions (newton, printers, mac models, quick take cameras, game system, etc.). Apple than focused on a few new products. It than build from that success. Sony probably isn't going to be able to cut the fat like Apple did. Some people forget Apple's success was a slow process.
  • Reply 36 of 49
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,652member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post


    A friend of mine bought a SOny LCD TV and was very upset with the performance of it. He ended up sticking it away in a spare bedroom and buying a better brand. In my opinion SOny doesn't get it any more. Maybe we will see what they have to offer in the next 5 years. I for june don't plan to ever buy sony products ever.



    That's ridiculous. Like all manufacturers, Sony makes both high end and low end sets. Some are junk and not worth what Sony charges and some are spectacular. Some of the spectacular ones do have QC problems. Sony's XBR HX929 set is absolultely spectacular if you don't get one with some of the problems and on sale, it's actually reasonably priced. Sony made an absolutely amazing set back in 2008, the XBR 8, but it was very expensive and they never made another set with the same technology.



    Sony's problems are numerous, but one important one is that each division of the company has its own P&L and units compete against each other rather than supporting each other. That's why the supposed synergies between the content and hardware divisions almost never happen. Steve Jobs is reputed to have said that the reason Apple beat Sony was because Apple has one P&L.



    Sony also has too many confusing lines of products with too many models in each. They could use a product line cleanup like the one that Jobs performed when he returned to Apple and got rid of all the confusing Centris, Performa and other lines.



    Since their TV business has lost so much money, Sony was about to go to almost all OEM production. That would kill them, so I hope the new CEO doesn't do that. Sony pretty much indicated at CES that there would be no new XBR TV in 2012. That's a disaster, if accurate. Samsung basically ate Sony's lunch in the mass market TV business in spite of the fact that Sony's high end has been generally higher quality than Samsung's.



    If Sony is going to change, the new CEO has to get the full support of the Board. Stringer has claimed that when he took the job, he didn't realize that there were divisions over which he had little or no power. Sony can only change if the CEO has the power to radically change the structure of the company.



    Sony's user-interfaces largely suck, although having said that, they're actually better than other manufacturers, like Pioneer. That's an area that needs radical improvement. Especially in configuration, their terminology makes absolutely no sense. (I'm an ex-recording engineer and I can't figure out what Sony means half the time.) I think part of the problem is a translation problem and part of it is that engineers are driving UI instead of UI experts.



    Sony gives lip service to providing content on its devices, but it's largely bogus. On my Blu-ray player and TV, you have access, for example, to a Sony Classical Network. But when you go there, there's only 8 videos and they've never changed. And it's not like it's intended to be a sample of a broader service. So it's a waste of menu real-estate that you can't get rid of.



    Sony's tech support is incredibly bad. The phones are answered mostly by people who know nothing and give even worse advice. When I was having problems getting the settings on the BD player to match the settings on the TV so that old 1.33:1 films weren't getting improperly stretched, an idiot advised me to permanently change the resolution on the TV to 480i.



    And even when you get further, they play the game of transferring you to different people who put you on hold 14 times hoping you'll hang up and give up. That has to change as well.



    While on paper, the Sony retail stores don't seem much different than Apple stores, the actual experience is quite different and IMO, the Sony stores don't work all that well.



    Sony used to be great because its co-founder, Akio Morita, was a lot like Jobs. He had the courage of his convictions. The Walkman was supposedly created because Morita wanted one for himself. That's the kind of design leadership Sony needs.



    Sony also has negatives that are similar to Apple. Like Apple, pros don't trust them to maintain product lines. Sony tends to walk away from technologies that don't gain wide acceptance. They walked away from SDDS digital sound for theatres, the mini-disc and SACD, especially in the U.S. Imagine if instead, Sony management issued an edict that all Sony CDs would have been dual-layer CD and SACD. Instead, they've done the opposite: albums that had been remastered for dual layer SACD (like the early Dylan electric albums) were remastered again back to standard CD.



    Apple made a decision a long time ago not to compete at the low end. Sony needs to do the same thing and stop making crappy clock radios and other low-end items. If they're going to do a clock-radio, it should be elegantly designed and have a great sound. But Sony may already be far too large to do anything about this. When Jobs returned to Apple to simplify the product lines, Apple was still a small company.
  • Reply 37 of 49
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eric475 View Post


    If you don't buy from Samsung as principle, I understand that. But the LCD panel in your Sony was made from a Samsung factory. Sony doesn't make LCD panels.



    It depends on the generation of the panel. The newer generation panels were made in a joint partnership between Sony and Sharp. Here is another source if you prefer.



    Samsung even outsources LCD production for some of its lower end models.
  • Reply 38 of 49
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Not gonna happen. It's not just not in Sony's DNA.



    They understand the hardware part but they've not a clue about the software part.



    Really? Ever heard of Playstation?
  • Reply 39 of 49
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    If Sony really wants to pursue an "Apple-like" integration of hardware & software, they can start by owning the software and making it an extension of the hardware they are making, instead of signing up for Google's party (or for that matter, Microsoft's).



    exactly. trying to make a profit selling commodity hardware products dependent on Windows/Symbian/Android made Sony just one more also-ran in an overcrowded market, and trapped in a disastrous race to the bottom of that market with other Asian OEM's that can perpetually undercut them.



    but as many here note, Sony never had the software talent to do anything else. and that's why it's doomed.
  • Reply 40 of 49
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    That's ridiculous. Like all manufacturers, Sony makes both high end and low end sets. Some are junk and not worth what Sony charges and some are spectacular. Some of the spectacular ones do have QC problems. Sony's XBR HX929 set is absolultely spectacular if you don't get one with some of the problems and on sale, it's actually reasonably priced. Sony made an absolutely amazing set back in 2008, the XBR 8, but it was very expensive and they never made another set with the same technology.



    Sony's problems are numerous, but one important one is that each division of the company has its own P&L and units compete against each other rather than supporting each other. That's why the supposed synergies between the content and hardware divisions almost never happen. Steve Jobs is reputed to have said that the reason Apple beat Sony was because Apple has one P&L.



    Sony also has too many confusing lines of products with too many models in each. They could use a product line cleanup like the one that Jobs performed when he returned to Apple and got rid of all the confusing Centris, Performa and other lines.



    Since their TV business has lost so much money, Sony was about to go to almost all OEM production. That would kill them, so I hope the new CEO doesn't do that. Sony pretty much indicated at CES that there would be no new XBR TV in 2012. That's a disaster, if accurate. Samsung basically ate Sony's lunch in the mass market TV business in spite of the fact that Sony's high end has been generally higher quality than Samsung's.



    If Sony is going to change, the new CEO has to get the full support of the Board. Stringer has claimed that when he took the job, he didn't realize that there were divisions over which he had little or no power. Sony can only change if the CEO has the power to radically change the structure of the company.



    Sony's user-interfaces largely suck, although having said that, they're actually better than other manufacturers, like Pioneer. That's an area that needs radical improvement. Especially in configuration, their terminology makes absolutely no sense. (I'm an ex-recording engineer and I can't figure out what Sony means half the time.) I think part of the problem is a translation problem and part of it is that engineers are driving UI instead of UI experts.



    Sony gives lip service to providing content on its devices, but it's largely bogus. On my Blu-ray player and TV, you have access, for example, to a Sony Classical Network. But when you go there, there's only 8 videos and they've never changed. And it's not like it's intended to be a sample of a broader service. So it's a waste of menu real-estate that you can't get rid of.



    Sony's tech support is incredibly bad. The phones are answered mostly by people who know nothing and give even worse advice. When I was having problems getting the settings on the BD player to match the settings on the TV so that old 1.33:1 films weren't getting improperly stretched, an idiot advised me to permanently change the resolution on the TV to 480i.



    And even when you get further, they play the game of transferring you to different people who put you on hold 14 times hoping you'll hang up and give up. That has to change as well.



    While on paper, the Sony retail stores don't seem much different than Apple stores, the actual experience is quite different and IMO, the Sony stores don't work all that well.



    Sony used to be great because its co-founder, Akio Morita, was a lot like Jobs. He had the courage of his convictions. The Walkman was supposedly created because Morita wanted one for himself. That's the kind of design leadership Sony needs.



    Sony also has negatives that are similar to Apple. Like Apple, pros don't trust them to maintain product lines. Sony tends to walk away from technologies that don't gain wide acceptance. They walked away from SDDS digital sound for theatres, the mini-disc and SACD, especially in the U.S. Imagine if instead, Sony management issued an edict that all Sony CDs would have been dual-layer CD and SACD. Instead, they've done the opposite: albums that had been remastered for dual layer SACD (like the early Dylan electric albums) were remastered again back to standard CD.



    Apple made a decision a long time ago not to compete at the low end. Sony needs to do the same thing and stop making crappy clock radios and other low-end items. If they're going to do a clock-radio, it should be elegantly designed and have a great sound. But Sony may already be far too large to do anything about this. When Jobs returned to Apple to simplify the product lines, Apple was still a small company.



    many astute points here. the one thing i'd add is about the (few) Sony retail stores. they are basically just showrooms for gadget lovers. unlike Apple stores, they don't handle warranty issues or repairs. there is no equivalent of a "genius bar," just poorly trained sales guys who can't figure out your problem. but what really kills them is all products are sold at full list price. which no one in their right mind pays since all Sony products are heavily discounted everywhere else and on the web. Apple gets away with this of course because it does not allow discount pricing of Apple products (at most, resellers might charge 5% less).



    i don't see any hope here either.
Sign In or Register to comment.