Apple pulls all 3G iOS devices but iPhone 4S from German online store

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 104
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


    Just so were clear...

    Apple wins suit against someone = good and fair

    Apple loses suit against someone = bad and unfair



    Pretty much accurate?



    Not completely. Because the someone Apple is losing against is of late using patents that shouldn't be allowed to be used in such ways. Apple's patents aren't under FRAND requirements so they are free to use them as they please until a court invalidates them.
  • Reply 22 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    I agree that Apple has something up its sleeve. This action seems to be happening in a way that is much too casual. I think we'll only need about 3-4 months to see if this is actually a win for Motorola.



    Yes especially as yesterdays court decision is around the iCloud issue / some MMI patent about device/cloud data sync. It was not about any circuitry or 3G tech.



    The iCloud thing can be worked around in software but Apple will try to invalidate the MMI patent either way.



    So the removal of the devices from the Online Store has NOTHING to do with yesterdays court decision, but it's related to a december 2011 preliminary(!) ruling about a MMI FRAND (!) patent, where MMI also "won".



    So todays Apple action of removing some 2nd line devices just from its Online store looks 100% like an escalation, because from now on the money clock for MMI is ticking!



    Apple may say in May please pay: "Look, 300.000 iPhone4+3GS+iPad3G sold per week via Online Store, average rev/device: 600?", times 8 weeks = 1.4 billion ? = 2 billion $, Motorola please pay.



    Plus EU commission penalizing FRAND violation: another billion $.

    Does Google still want to take it ? Or should they better lower their offer to MMI shareholders ? Or withdraw by paying a very high compensation to MMI ?



    For AAPL this is nearly a nonevent, for MMI this is sheer fight for survival.
  • Reply 23 of 104
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,500member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Yup... have you got a problem with that?!







    like this isn't a site for Apple enthusiasts is it? /sarcasm
  • Reply 24 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skeaman View Post


    With all these court cases Apple have been in, how many have they actually won? The answer is they have lost alot more than they have won!



    Not true. Here in Germany Apple successfully banned the Galaxy tab for months, especially before Xmas. Now that the Galaxy is old tech and the iPad 3 around, Apples mission accomplished.



    One has to understand that Apple uses different strategies for the major Android vendors:

    1. HTC: "Strip them!" - HTCs weakness: worst devices among all Androids. So Apple pursued in having HTC strip down their Android software, so they feel even worse. Result: HTCs loosing against other Androids.



    2. Samsung: "Detain them!" Samsung had the best devices & the best organisation. Their weakness: They copied Apple. So Apple sued them over design and reached successful injunctions for new Samsung devices. If Apple had not done, who knows where Samsung would stand today.



    3. Motorola: "Kill them!" The economically weakest among Androids. So Apple seeks to hurt them with damage compensations, like now in Germany. That market is just ideal: not too much in focus like the US market, but heavy enough to punch a 2B$ payment at MMI which will finish them.



    The Google/MMI merger will fail and with it the new Google strategy of becoming an All-in-one vendor. This has highest priority is Cupertino for sure. For that Apple has to hurt MMI hard way.
  • Reply 25 of 104
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,500member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ohcomeon View Post


    I've just checked the Apple Store for Germany and the iPhone 4S is available to buy.



    ...FOSS Patents' Florian Mueller, who attended the December hearing, points out that the next generation iPhone 4S is not included in the injunction ....
  • Reply 26 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


    Just so were clear...

    Apple wins suit against someone = good and fair

    Apple loses suit against someone = bad and unfair



    Pretty much accurate?



    Yes.



    Apple wins suit: The patent existed and was valid. It has yet to be challenged. For all the talk you trolls spout about "patenting a rectangle", why hasn't that patent been challenged? They've had plenty of time to do it. And if it's as generic as you claim, it will obviously be overturned. It hasn't. If Apple had tried to "patent a rectangle" as you all claim, I'd be on your side. Attempting to patent a simple shape is ludicrous. But they haven't. And no one has challenged the patent.



    Apple loses suit: The patent is FRAND and is valid. It is in the running to be challenged, as I already mentioned. If it is challenged, then it's challenged. If Motorola is forced to license it, they're forced to license it. If they're forced to then pay damages to Apple for lost sales during this down time, they're forced to pay sales. Nowhere did I say they WILL or SHOULD pay Apple for the downtime. I said specifically that it's possible, not guaranteed.



    If you want my personal opinion, I wish that Apple's tablet patent was just a little more specific. Then there'd be no question as to the infringement of Samsung crap. And, if Apple has been violating these Motorola patens, it is my opinion that that's wrong and reflects poorly on Apple, even if the patents are FRAND and Motorola should have been licensing them in the first place. If they're found to be infringing, Apple should probably pay some damages to Motorola… at least until the patents are found to be FRAND, in which case, payment should be made from Motorola TO Apple, minus the cost of the damages from Apple's infringement.
  • Reply 27 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    ...FOSS Patents' Florian Mueller, who attended the December hearing, points out that the next generation iPhone 4S is not included in the injunction ....



    because it has a Qualcomm chip which is not covered by the MMI patent. So will iPad3's which will be available also in German AAPL Online Store. BTW, all of the devices still available at Telcos (major source here) and all retailers, no big issue for customers. But big issue for MMI which will be accounted for all damages.
  • Reply 28 of 104
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Never mind that these are FRAND patents and that Motorola will be investigated for them, leading to a potential payment by them to Apple for the lost revenue.



    This article is basically slapppy, DaHarder, Galbi, (and you know the other twenty)'s wet dream.



    Truth is hard to swallow.
  • Reply 29 of 104
    panupanu Posts: 135member
    Yes, I know I meant spell it RIGHT, but I'm making a point.



    Those little dots over the vowels, which are called umlauts, are not decoration and they are not optional. They make a big difference in pronunciation, because they are a way of writing vowels for which there are otherwise no letters in the alphabet. The word is not "verfugbar" but "verfügbar." Switch to a Mac and you have no difficulty typing it.



    Luckily, there is no such word as "verfugbar" so you get off easy this time. Develop good habits now to avoid disasters later. Drucken means print but drücken means push, but worse, schwül means stuffy, but schwul means queer.
  • Reply 30 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    Truth is hard to swallow.



    Yes, I've found that to be true about you guys.
  • Reply 31 of 104
    slapppyslapppy Posts: 331member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kresh View Post


    karma



    I will chalk this up as a win for the battle, but not for the war with iOS. iPhone 4S is still available, so until that is banned, Apple still has a very slim chance to gain a foothold there.
  • Reply 32 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by slapppy View Post


    I will chalk this up as a win for the battle, but not for the war with iOS. iPhone 4S is still available, so until that is banned, Apple still has a very slim chance to gain a foothold there.



    So? you're in a war against iOS.



    Why are you on this website, again?
  • Reply 33 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kresh View Post


    karma



    There's no reason to bring religion/magic into it.
  • Reply 34 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post


    What this means big picture is anyone's guess.



    I'm going to wager, not much, and everything will be resolved soon enough.



    I think this is the most reasonable interpretation of the news on the thread so far.



    It seems to me that even if Apple doesn't get this reversed, that the "worst-case" bottom line here is that they pay Motorola a small fee. So what.
  • Reply 35 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    So? you're in a war against iOS.



    Why are you on this website, again?



    For our entertainment... and, we need a fall guy.
  • Reply 36 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    For our entertainment... and, we need a fall guy.



    Sure, but we don't need 20 of them.
  • Reply 37 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skeaman View Post


    Who is loosing now, Apple?



    You because you can't spell 'losing'.
  • Reply 38 of 104
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Bummer. Germany is a big economy.
  • Reply 39 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skeaman View Post


    With all these court cases Apple have been in, how many have they actually won?



    Most, I believe.



    Quote:

    The answer is they have lost alot more than they have won!



    Indeed? Do you have a handy list?



    Quote:

    Who is loosing now, Apple?



    Motorola. Or maybe you don't think that bleeding money, marketshare, customer satisfaction, or point is 'loosing' compared to Apple making OVER FIFTY PERCENT of ALL cell phone profits, selling millions more devices every single quarter, and having the best customer satisfaction of anyone.



    Quote:

    Apple thought they were being smart going around dragging everyone to court, but it have blown back in their faces!!!



    So I assume you'll come back once these FRAND patents are forced to be licensed and claim they're not FRAND and that Apple is being a 'bully' and doing it illegally.



    Quote:

    Whoever decided to go down this route wasn't the smartest one in the room at the time!



    Must resist urge to continue spinning this post back against Motorola?
  • Reply 40 of 104
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


    Just so were clear...

    Apple wins suit against someone = good and fair

    Apple loses suit against someone = bad and unfair



    Pretty much accurate?



    Ahhhh little padawan, I see you've been paying attention.
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