OS X is legacy. iOS will replace it in the long-term on all devices. The only question is (a) whether those devices will include laptop and desktop form factors and (b), if they do, whether they'll have Intel processors. iOS already runs on Intel (that's what the simulator is) so that's not a problem. No doubt they have parts of OS X running on ARM too. But if Macs did move to ARM, I think they'd be running UIKit (iOS framework) rather than AppKit (OS X framework).
I like iOS. Whenever I'm on the Mac it kind of feels a bit messy and old school. He he.. I think iOS will make its way to the work stations eventually, whatever they'll be called.
The iPad 2 has been roughly compared to the PowerBook G4 in terms of performance, so it'll be powerful enough very soon to go pro.
But other than performance, for professional precision I think a future iOS device needs more than just touch input. Dual pen and touch input for big professional iOS devices would make sense.
According to the paper, Schaap worked with the group to get Darwin, the "lower half" of Apple's Mac OS X operating system, to boot onto an ARM processor from Marvell."
Darwin is used in iOS too. Case open and closed I guess.
Anyways, more likely that they would scale up the iPad than scale down the Macbooks. ARM processors have gotten much more capable recently, but the performance delta between them and high end x86 is still magnitudes, I can't see Apple trying to run full OSX on them, and then there's application compatibility. However I can see a Transformer Prime-like keyboard dock implementation for the iPad 3, that would be nice.
It must be obvious that OSX already runs on ARM. It is called iOS.
Thank you. Given Apple's history, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have the full thing running on ARM - if nothing else to wave at Intel every once in a while to keep them motivated or to get better pricing from.
It should also be obvious that a employee on a work study / internship program isn't going to be involved in critical code for hardware about to ship. So they give him a board built around a marvel chip and let him at it. It is a great way to learn from both sides of the fence. The student gets a bit of experience bringing up real hardware and the staff gets a chance to observe the students cunning.
I agreed with you but then had a dream last night that made me think something else could be at work. If you read his thesis you see he's specifically working with Marvell's ARMv5te MV88F6281 processor. That's the same processor used in the AirPort Extreme and Time Capsule products.
Maybe they simply have plenty of these chips around and/or know then well enough to gauge this intern's ability from doing this type of work, but I can't rule out that there is something else going on since it's chip used in shipping products, and there are rumours and a very real reason to get these products running iOS.
It's not a question of if, but when. Problem is that ARM would be in addition to, not replacement of, x86, especially in desktops. And I doubt they'd pull a Rosetta and make an x86-to-ARM instruction translator, that would be wasteful and slow. Not sure Apple wants to go through that again.
Regardless, let's keep in mind that OS X was running on Intel for 4 years before we ever heard about it, so OS X on ARM is likely to be a very long term project.
except that Intel was always better than PowerPC and always sold full CPU's. ARM CPU's are gimped. only reason they use less power is they have less features and transistors than real CPU's
According to the paper, Schaap worked with the group to get Darwin, the "lower half" of Apple's Mac OS X operating system, to boot onto an ARM processor from Marvell."
Darwin is used in iOS too. Case open and closed I guess.
Anyways, more likely that they would scale up the iPad than scale down the Macbooks. ARM processors have gotten much more capable recently, but the performance delta between them and high end x86 is still magnitudes, I can't see Apple trying to run full OSX on them, and then there's application compatibility. However I can see a Transformer Prime-like keyboard dock implementation for the iPad 3, that would be nice.
apple just needs to be able to make a $500 to $600 laptop that runs ARM and does the basic functions of a $500 Intel/MS laptop but can be sold for a nice profit unlike the wintel laptop.
once that happens MS can say goodbye to windows on the desktop
except that Intel was always better than PowerPC and always sold full CPU's. ARM CPU's are gimped. only reason they use less power is they have less features and transistors than real CPU's
and it's not x86 overhead which is tiny
WTF?!?! PPC chips never had any aspects that bested Intel chips? PPC wasn't a "full CPU"? ARM is gimped? ARM doesn't make real CPUs? I suggest you get back in bed and then get up on the rational side this time.
apple just needs to be able to make a $500 to $600 laptop that runs ARM and does the basic functions of a $500 Intel/MS laptop but can be sold for a nice profit unlike the wintel laptop.
once that happens MS can say goodbye to windows on the desktop
Now you're arguing for Apple to use ARM to make a laptop yet just said they were gimped, fake CPUs?
Aha! So THIS is why there was all that publicity recently about putting interns and noobs at Apple onto false projects... to spread doubt when this news got out.
most people rarely use more than 10% of a modern Intel CPU. The current low end laptop market is a money loser for most players. the only way to make money on it is with warranties, accessories and installed crap ware.
huge market opportunity for apple to make a low end product that is profitable
and yet ARM is gimped. current ARM CPU's can barely keep up with 6 year game consoles. and read the article. He had a lot of trouble getting basic features to work because ARM CPU's don't support everything that Intel supports
and PPC was always crap compared to Intel. It was a full CPU like a Pentium but never outperformed Intel and always had heat problems
"An academic paper written by a former Apple intern who USED TO SERVE as a Core OS engineer at the company..."
Yeah. I don't understand how he could disclose his work even to one professor, much less allow it to be published.
This whole thing has more going on than what is revealed here.
Under what circumstances would Apple allow some intern to disclose what he worked on at Apple? If there are no such circumstances, why did Apple hire the guy post-disclosure?
There's got to be more here than what was reported.
Yeah. I don't understand how he could disclose his work even to one professor, much less allow it to be published.
This whole thing has more going on than what is revealed here.
Under what circumstances would Apple allow some intern to disclose what he worked on at Apple? If there are no such circumstances, why did Apple hire the guy post-disclosure?
There's got to be more here than what was reported.
You have never worked with, managed, or taught interns. This was a requirement for both the student and the employer.
Yeah. I don't understand how he could disclose his work even to one professor, much less allow it to be published.
This whole thing has more going on than what is revealed here.
Under what circumstances would Apple allow some intern to disclose what he worked on at Apple? If there are no such circumstances, why did Apple hire the guy post-disclosure?
There's got to be more here than what was reported.
He was working on the open source part of MacOS, so Apple may not have had a problem with it. Apple is very secretive about some things, but very open about others. They work a lot with the open source community on compilers (llvm) and the CUPS printing services, so they certainly don't shy away from being open when it serves there need.
Why not? He started as an intern, wrote the paper, got hired and then left a year and half later.... Anything wrong with that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
Yeah. I don't understand how he could disclose his work even to one professor, much less allow it to be published.
This whole thing has more going on than what is revealed here.
Under what circumstances would Apple allow some intern to disclose what he worked on at Apple? If there are no such circumstances, why did Apple hire the guy post-disclosure?
There's got to be more here than what was reported.
It was a joke. A stupid comment. I'm going to leave now.... I feel ashamed...
Mac needs to be on Intel x86 to be as much compatible as possible with Windows x86, and I mean both Microsoft Windows and Office. That is why Apple should deliver a truly portable Mac 400 to 600 g and as small as possible based on Intel x86.
Mac needs to be on Intel x86 to be as much compatible as possible with Windows x86, and I mean both Microsoft Windows and Office. That is why Apple should deliver a truly portable Mac 400 to 600 g and as small as possible based on Intel x86.
Comments
The iPad 2 has been roughly compared to the PowerBook G4 in terms of performance, so it'll be powerful enough very soon to go pro.
But other than performance, for professional precision I think a future iOS device needs more than just touch input. Dual pen and touch input for big professional iOS devices would make sense.
Darwin is used in iOS too. Case open and closed I guess.
Anyways, more likely that they would scale up the iPad than scale down the Macbooks. ARM processors have gotten much more capable recently, but the performance delta between them and high end x86 is still magnitudes, I can't see Apple trying to run full OSX on them, and then there's application compatibility. However I can see a Transformer Prime-like keyboard dock implementation for the iPad 3, that would be nice.
It must be obvious that OSX already runs on ARM. It is called iOS.
Thank you. Given Apple's history, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have the full thing running on ARM - if nothing else to wave at Intel every once in a while to keep them motivated or to get better pricing from.
It should also be obvious that a employee on a work study / internship program isn't going to be involved in critical code for hardware about to ship. So they give him a board built around a marvel chip and let him at it. It is a great way to learn from both sides of the fence. The student gets a bit of experience bringing up real hardware and the staff gets a chance to observe the students cunning.
I agreed with you but then had a dream last night that made me think something else could be at work. If you read his thesis you see he's specifically working with Marvell's ARMv5te MV88F6281 processor. That's the same processor used in the AirPort Extreme and Time Capsule products.
Maybe they simply have plenty of these chips around and/or know then well enough to gauge this intern's ability from doing this type of work, but I can't rule out that there is something else going on since it's chip used in shipping products, and there are rumours and a very real reason to get these products running iOS.
Is there a version of IOS for intel processor? I'll say yes, if you follow this logic: Just in case
Of course there is -- and it's shipping today. It's called the iOS Simulator. It comes with Xcode and every iOS developer is familiar with it.
It's not a question of if, but when. Problem is that ARM would be in addition to, not replacement of, x86, especially in desktops. And I doubt they'd pull a Rosetta and make an x86-to-ARM instruction translator, that would be wasteful and slow. Not sure Apple wants to go through that again.
Regardless, let's keep in mind that OS X was running on Intel for 4 years before we ever heard about it, so OS X on ARM is likely to be a very long term project.
except that Intel was always better than PowerPC and always sold full CPU's. ARM CPU's are gimped. only reason they use less power is they have less features and transistors than real CPU's
and it's not x86 overhead which is tiny
According to the paper, Schaap worked with the group to get Darwin, the "lower half" of Apple's Mac OS X operating system, to boot onto an ARM processor from Marvell."
Darwin is used in iOS too. Case open and closed I guess.
Anyways, more likely that they would scale up the iPad than scale down the Macbooks. ARM processors have gotten much more capable recently, but the performance delta between them and high end x86 is still magnitudes, I can't see Apple trying to run full OSX on them, and then there's application compatibility. However I can see a Transformer Prime-like keyboard dock implementation for the iPad 3, that would be nice.
apple just needs to be able to make a $500 to $600 laptop that runs ARM and does the basic functions of a $500 Intel/MS laptop but can be sold for a nice profit unlike the wintel laptop.
once that happens MS can say goodbye to windows on the desktop
except that Intel was always better than PowerPC and always sold full CPU's. ARM CPU's are gimped. only reason they use less power is they have less features and transistors than real CPU's
and it's not x86 overhead which is tiny
WTF?!?! PPC chips never had any aspects that bested Intel chips? PPC wasn't a "full CPU"? ARM is gimped? ARM doesn't make real CPUs? I suggest you get back in bed and then get up on the rational side this time.
apple just needs to be able to make a $500 to $600 laptop that runs ARM and does the basic functions of a $500 Intel/MS laptop but can be sold for a nice profit unlike the wintel laptop.
once that happens MS can say goodbye to windows on the desktop
Now you're arguing for Apple to use ARM to make a laptop yet just said they were gimped, fake CPUs?
huge market opportunity for apple to make a low end product that is profitable
and yet ARM is gimped. current ARM CPU's can barely keep up with 6 year game consoles. and read the article. He had a lot of trouble getting basic features to work because ARM CPU's don't support everything that Intel supports
and PPC was always crap compared to Intel. It was a full CPU like a Pentium but never outperformed Intel and always had heat problems
Correction:
"An academic paper written by a former Apple intern who USED TO SERVE as a Core OS engineer at the company..."
Yeah. I don't understand how he could disclose his work even to one professor, much less allow it to be published.
This whole thing has more going on than what is revealed here.
Under what circumstances would Apple allow some intern to disclose what he worked on at Apple? If there are no such circumstances, why did Apple hire the guy post-disclosure?
There's got to be more here than what was reported.
Yeah. I don't understand how he could disclose his work even to one professor, much less allow it to be published.
This whole thing has more going on than what is revealed here.
Under what circumstances would Apple allow some intern to disclose what he worked on at Apple? If there are no such circumstances, why did Apple hire the guy post-disclosure?
There's got to be more here than what was reported.
You have never worked with, managed, or taught interns. This was a requirement for both the student and the employer.
Yeah. I don't understand how he could disclose his work even to one professor, much less allow it to be published.
This whole thing has more going on than what is revealed here.
Under what circumstances would Apple allow some intern to disclose what he worked on at Apple? If there are no such circumstances, why did Apple hire the guy post-disclosure?
There's got to be more here than what was reported.
He was working on the open source part of MacOS, so Apple may not have had a problem with it. Apple is very secretive about some things, but very open about others. They work a lot with the open source community on compilers (llvm) and the CUPS printing services, so they certainly don't shy away from being open when it serves there need.
I think other people have worked on the Darwin/ARM port as well, there have been bug reports related to it for a while. e.g. http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=837
Why not? He started as an intern, wrote the paper, got hired and then left a year and half later.... Anything wrong with that?
Yeah. I don't understand how he could disclose his work even to one professor, much less allow it to be published.
This whole thing has more going on than what is revealed here.
Under what circumstances would Apple allow some intern to disclose what he worked on at Apple? If there are no such circumstances, why did Apple hire the guy post-disclosure?
There's got to be more here than what was reported.
It was a joke. A stupid comment. I'm going to leave now.... I feel ashamed...
Mac needs to be on Intel x86 to be as much compatible as possible with Windows x86, and I mean both Microsoft Windows and Office. That is why Apple should deliver a truly portable Mac 400 to 600 g and as small as possible based on Intel x86.
Why? People have shown that no one wants that.