I hope you realize Americans have the freedom of speech. This would severely hurt our rights. Do you even know what illegal stock manipulation constitutes?
Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.
Factories like this will rotate them around and find something their good at. It's unlikely they care if their employees are bored since they are easily replaceable.
You're boring the cr4p out of me with the same old-same old. I would like to see you replaced.
And in your passion you make it clear that you hate everything and everyone except yourself, Apple and most users of Apple products. It gets to be a little much, sometimes.
A bunch of people decided to jump on the bandwagon about something they know nothing about.
My company deals with Chinese factories every day. There are no shortage of jobs in China. Factory workers know they can go somewhere else for more money.
What is happening now is that these workers know their worth and want more and more money which is lowering our currency. If you want them to make more money and work in better conditions, then you will pay more for everything you buy. But no one wants to hear about that. We all want to work in peace and harmony and make a lot of money doing it.
And in your passion you make it clear that you hate everything and everyone except yourself, Apple and most users of Apple products. It gets to be a little much, sometimes.
So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.
The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.
How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.
Does anyone know?
The cost of having one worker work an average of 66 hours a week is, wages wise, the same as having two full time workers working 40 hrs a week. If you factor in benefits one worker on overtime is cheaper for the company. Basic math and basic explotation. As long as they pay you 1 1/2 they are legal. I'm surprised more companies don't do this.
Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.
And lawyers make more than $41 hr. because they are not bozos.
Couldn't they reduce the Apple tax by not pampering these foreign workers? Clearly Apple is doing more than they have to in order to pass the smell test of humane labor practices.
This isn't the full report, just their initial impressions. They will be interviewing 35,000 workers over the next 3 weeks and issue their report in March.
The accusations were never of hectic working environments; they included excessive amounts of hours doing very mundane and repetitive work causing injuries and depression with low remuneration.
I don't doubt that the factories Apple uses will come head and shoulders above the 'norm' but that's not exactly a high standard to begin with. We'll find out what the report in March says about how the employees feel in absolute terms.
Most people didn't just find out about it. They felt like it was a problem they couldn't solve. Finally a bunch of people started making a huge fuss and it caused more and more people to join in. This is how movements start. It's awfully stupid they are targeting the company putting in the most effort in to fixing it. People are more or less saying that they are paying attention to this now and that companies should be on watch and not screw up.
No. This is not a movement, Foxconn doesn't gain anything by callously abusing workers. Many of the workers work overtime so they have more money to send back to families that live below poverty level. People are not saying anything of the sort, and yes it is awfully stupid of them - except that they want media time not actual solutions.
Let's review what Foxconn looks like:
Hon Hai dba Foxconn is in fact a multinational company and the world's largest maker/assembler of electronic components/original design manufacturer, maintaining 13 factories in China as well as factories in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, India, Mexico and Brazil. They manufacture roughly 40% of the world's consumer electronic products, they are the largest electronics manufacturer in the world, the largest exporter and the largest private employer in China. Foxconn is preferred by a number of companies due to the company's access to the extensive Chinese component supply chain as well as being centrally located to the large network of subcomponent supplies in the region. They employ nearly a million people world-wide.
The following companies are supplied by Foxconn (alphabetically):
Foxconn is the source for many of the components and assembly of Android phones, feature phones for Nokia and Sony/Ericsson, networking devices for Cisco, computer components for Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Acer, in addition to the Apple products lines. In fact the vast majority of the PC product market segment is assembled or manufactured by Foxconn, as well as the vast majority of feature phones for Nokia and Samsung - the two companies that are the majority market suppliers of feature phones.
So while I appreciate righteous indignation against any abuse of power/position/influence, you are obviously poorly informed as to the real impact Foxconn has FAR BEYOND Apple products. Dell and HP together manufacture the vast majority of the world's PCs as compared to the relatively small marketshare that Apple has.
Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.
It has to cause significant harm to the recipient and you have to prove it in court using hard evidence that directly links these two things. It's a long shot.
All right this discussion has gone on long enough. All sides spout empty rhetoric. No one here is willing to sacrifice anything to fix this or any problem regardless of it being in China or the U.S. Everyone wants some other group of people to make the sacrifice. The Tea Party wants it to be all the people who receive entitlements, the Occupy movement wants it to be the 1%. The Republicans want it to be the Democrats and vice versa. Congress wants it to be the non lobbyists. I could go on and on. The point is no one wants to be the one making the sacrifice. Basic human nature. We still function too much of the time using the primitive part of our brain. We can't help it. So if you really give a damn about anyone at Foxconn then never buy another product made in China. If you give a damn about the guy here that just quit his job because he no longer wanted to be forced to work 66 hours a week, than never buy a product made by his former employer or give him a job that allows him to work 40 hrs. If not than shut the hell up. \
So if you really give a damn about anyone at Foxconn then never buy another product made in China.
Actually, quite the opposite. Buy as many Foxconn manufactured devices as you can so the line workers can send more money home to their families, and so that more people living at near starvation or working in the even worse conditions can move into the better conditions at Foxconn, and so that the Foxconn employees have more value to their employer so they can negotiate for better working conditions.
Or perhaps it was the large cash payments that "pushed a few workers over the edge".
I think that is a huge factor. Most come from impoverished rural villages and it's huge social & enviromental change for them. They become homesick and lonely, trapped in a totally different world. I think a significant problem is that they feel like they can't quit and lose a place to live, food to eat, money they save for education or send home to family. And worry that they would be shamed and disgraced and letdown to their family. Suicide was viable option- escape unhappiness and provide nice financial sum to family. Curtailing payments removes the incentive. And since then, the number of suicides have plummeted.
Comments
I hope you realize Americans have the freedom of speech. This would severely hurt our rights. Do you even know what illegal stock manipulation constitutes?
Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.
Factories like this will rotate them around and find something their good at. It's unlikely they care if their employees are bored since they are easily replaceable.
You're boring the cr4p out of me with the same old-same old. I would like to see you replaced.
....I am a hyperbolic person.
And in your passion you make it clear that you hate everything and everyone except yourself, Apple and most users of Apple products. It gets to be a little much, sometimes.
My company deals with Chinese factories every day. There are no shortage of jobs in China. Factory workers know they can go somewhere else for more money.
What is happening now is that these workers know their worth and want more and more money which is lowering our currency. If you want them to make more money and work in better conditions, then you will pay more for everything you buy. But no one wants to hear about that. We all want to work in peace and harmony and make a lot of money doing it.
And in your passion you make it clear that you hate everything and everyone except yourself, Apple and most users of Apple products. It gets to be a little much, sometimes.
Apple ][ is our crowbar.
So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.
The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.
How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.
Does anyone know?
The cost of having one worker work an average of 66 hours a week is, wages wise, the same as having two full time workers working 40 hrs a week. If you factor in benefits one worker on overtime is cheaper for the company. Basic math and basic explotation. As long as they pay you 1 1/2 they are legal. I'm surprised more companies don't do this.
Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.
And lawyers make more than $41 hr. because they are not bozos.
Couldn't they reduce the Apple tax?
There IS no Apple Tax. Hasn't been one since the beginning of the last decade.
There IS no Apple Tax. Hasn't been one since the beginning of the last decade.
The word "tax" needs to replaced with "resale value."
The accusations were never of hectic working environments; they included excessive amounts of hours doing very mundane and repetitive work causing injuries and depression with low remuneration.
I don't doubt that the factories Apple uses will come head and shoulders above the 'norm' but that's not exactly a high standard to begin with. We'll find out what the report in March says about how the employees feel in absolute terms.
Most people didn't just find out about it. They felt like it was a problem they couldn't solve. Finally a bunch of people started making a huge fuss and it caused more and more people to join in. This is how movements start. It's awfully stupid they are targeting the company putting in the most effort in to fixing it. People are more or less saying that they are paying attention to this now and that companies should be on watch and not screw up.
No. This is not a movement, Foxconn doesn't gain anything by callously abusing workers. Many of the workers work overtime so they have more money to send back to families that live below poverty level. People are not saying anything of the sort, and yes it is awfully stupid of them - except that they want media time not actual solutions.
Let's review what Foxconn looks like:
Hon Hai dba Foxconn is in fact a multinational company and the world's largest maker/assembler of electronic components/original design manufacturer, maintaining 13 factories in China as well as factories in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, India, Mexico and Brazil. They manufacture roughly 40% of the world's consumer electronic products, they are the largest electronics manufacturer in the world, the largest exporter and the largest private employer in China. Foxconn is preferred by a number of companies due to the company's access to the extensive Chinese component supply chain as well as being centrally located to the large network of subcomponent supplies in the region. They employ nearly a million people world-wide.
The following companies are supplied by Foxconn (alphabetically):
Acer, Amazon, Apple, Cisco, Dell, Gateway, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Sony/Ericsson, Toshiba and Vizio.
Foxconn is the source for many of the components and assembly of Android phones, feature phones for Nokia and Sony/Ericsson, networking devices for Cisco, computer components for Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Acer, in addition to the Apple products lines. In fact the vast majority of the PC product market segment is assembled or manufactured by Foxconn, as well as the vast majority of feature phones for Nokia and Samsung - the two companies that are the majority market suppliers of feature phones.
So while I appreciate righteous indignation against any abuse of power/position/influence, you are obviously poorly informed as to the real impact Foxconn has FAR BEYOND Apple products. Dell and HP together manufacture the vast majority of the world's PCs as compared to the relatively small marketshare that Apple has.
Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.
It has to cause significant harm to the recipient and you have to prove it in court using hard evidence that directly links these two things. It's a long shot.
There IS no Apple Tax. Hasn't been one since the beginning of the last decade.
The word "tax" needs to replaced with "resale value."
Get a sense of humor guys.... I think you may have missed the sarcasm of his post.
Get a sense of humor guys.... I think you may have missed the sarcasm of his post.
I was trying to be humorous.
edit: I guess the word "trying" needs to replaced with "failing."
Foxconn did have time to prepare. It wasn't exactly a surprise inspection.
yea but they interviewed about 100 or more employees about the working conditions their ..and i'm sure Foxxcon didnt pay all of them to talk nice
So if you really give a damn about anyone at Foxconn then never buy another product made in China.
Actually, quite the opposite. Buy as many Foxconn manufactured devices as you can so the line workers can send more money home to their families, and so that more people living at near starvation or working in the even worse conditions can move into the better conditions at Foxconn, and so that the Foxconn employees have more value to their employer so they can negotiate for better working conditions.
- Jasen.
Or perhaps it was the large cash payments that "pushed a few workers over the edge".
I think that is a huge factor. Most come from impoverished rural villages and it's huge social & enviromental change for them. They become homesick and lonely, trapped in a totally different world. I think a significant problem is that they feel like they can't quit and lose a place to live, food to eat, money they save for education or send home to family. And worry that they would be shamed and disgraced and letdown to their family. Suicide was viable option- escape unhappiness and provide nice financial sum to family. Curtailing payments removes the incentive. And since then, the number of suicides have plummeted.
Isn't Foxconn the same place that Santa uses?