Best martial artist...still Bruce Lee
To me, there will never be anyone that compares to Bruce. It goes beyond pure skill and fighting moves.
Bruce has that plus that downright mean streak that no one else possess. I love those close up shots of his face when he breaks someone's neck. Plus his style (cat like) and grace is something that the others sorely lack.
I'll give Jackie Chan points for carving out a niche for himself using humour.
While Jet Li is fast and good, he lacks personality. Although he is getting better in recent films.
Van Damne...uh don't know what he's up to but I never thought much of his skills anyways.
Bruce has that plus that downright mean streak that no one else possess. I love those close up shots of his face when he breaks someone's neck. Plus his style (cat like) and grace is something that the others sorely lack.
I'll give Jackie Chan points for carving out a niche for himself using humour.
While Jet Li is fast and good, he lacks personality. Although he is getting better in recent films.
Van Damne...uh don't know what he's up to but I never thought much of his skills anyways.
Comments
<strong>I think that even way back then, there were plenty of martial artists who would have handed Bruce Lee his ass, screen fighting, like stage fighting, is nothing like the real thing. For good demonstartions of what a real one on one fight looks like, take a look at UFC or shoot fighting.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Obviously moves are choreographed for film so it's difficult to know Bruce's actual track record. However, one story has surfaced since his death is the one where an extra on the set, challenged Bruce to a fight. Needless to say, he got his ass kicked.
Bruce was a fitness freak and a master of the arts teaching and developing fighting moves.
I wouldn't be so sure he would lose to some of those UFC fighters.
[ 12-12-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
That extra may have been one tough muther. But again, it's all speculation on who would win.
BTW, the intention of the thread was really in the realm of entertainment...not so much real brawling.
His moves are fantastic!
But, one on one (and only "one-on-one"), wrestlers will school them both. Not pure wrestlers, but control experts with the right (minimal) set of kicks and punches. You underestimate the kind of grip these guys can generate. You don't how hard they can squeeze untill someone wakes you up off the mat. I know because I've been "squeezed-out" before, it's scary. And their pain threshold is right up there, a punch or a kick won't stop 'em from bearing down on you (if they're used to it). I'm a pretty big guy (and young) and I remember this one time, at jujitsu, I got my ass kicked by a 50 year old police officer, also a big guy, but 50, come on, right? Wrong, I had him, for what seemed like 5 minutes, in an arm bar, twisting as hard as I could. He was sweating a little, but it didn't really phase him. He got out, tossed me around for a few minutes, and then did about the same thing to me, I gave up in about 3 seconds, he was that strong! Also, I'm a big pussy, but that's another story. Now, I suck, but there's a lot stronger, better, and younger than my police friend out there, and not Bruce Lee or anyone else would escape some of the holds these guys can put on you.
The advantage goes to the martial artist (Karate, Kung Fu, et al) when you face the prospect of multiple attackers and you can't afford to get bogged down in a man to man grappling contest. If I twist a guys elbow behind his back and squeeze his neck, that doesn't exactly stop his friends from breaking a 2 by 4 over my head or knifing me in the back does it. Against 2 or more guys, Bruce Lee may have been the best, but not one on one, as good as he may have been, it's not the right skill set.
Remember too that when he opened the martial arts school in San Francisco he allowed non-asians to attend which pissed off the other asians and they challenged him to stop. He did lose sometimes, even broke his back. But he had some drive within him that just made him stronger and wiser. He was more than a martial artist/actor. He was a role model and activist for asians. Great man. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
There's a good documentary on him on DVD. It's really worth watching.
There are some scenes of him back in Hong Kong doing real fights where people did get hurt.
What I admire most about the man is his courage and philosophy of life.
He's incredible, yet he was laughed at by many Americans because he was Chinese.
[ 12-12-2002: Message edited by: running with scissors ]</p>
If we're talking about inspirational stories, then full credit to Bruce Lee for overcoming a great many obstacles on his way to teaching eastern martial arts to the world.
<strong>Say what will, but mixed martial arts guys like Gracie (Renzo, Royler or Royce, take your pick), Rodriguez, Shamrock, or Yoshida are very tough guys...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Whatever. Still think if Lee was alive today (and in his prime) and was in a match with any (or all) he'd whoop major ass damage.
A bad reference...but try and see AMC's documentary on Lee's last film "Game of Death". All of the fight scenes were dipicting how Lee's form of martial arts (Jeet Kun Do) could repel and defend any foe(s), of any size and with whatever form or martial arts around. He had filmed all those scenes before his death and were restored to what Lee had written down in his directorial notes and storyboards.
There's also an interview Lee made where he discusses his melding of philosophy with Jeet Kun Do...face it...he is and will always be the best.
It just isn't true, no such fighter exists, anyone can be beaten, not by me, but by another trained to do it, many others. It comes down to an appropriate style for the right environment.
Now for the ability to do real fight, we must be aware that it was not really big or tall, it would be difficult for him to fight against monster baby of more than 200 pounds and 6 feets tall.
<strong>
Now for the ability to do real fight, we must be aware that it was not really big or tall, it would be difficult for him to fight against monster baby of more than 200 pounds and 6 feets tall.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've seen many oversized lugs who can't take a simple punch.
But getting back to the initial intent of this thread, no one has come up with a worthy successor to Bruce Lee, in the movies.
<strong>
I've seen many oversized lugs who can't take a simple punch.
But getting back to the initial intent of this thread, no one has come up with a worthy successor to Bruce Lee, in the movies.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do not say the contrary but do you think that in boxing the world champion of less than 90 pounds has a change against the champion of the super-heavy ?
And i agree with your other statement.
<strong>I've seen many oversized lugs who can't take a simple punch.
But getting back to the initial intent of this thread, no one has come up with a worthy successor to Bruce Lee, in the movies.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because there isn't one. He set the standard waaaay above any other martial artist in film. He had style, charisma, expertise and...you could understand 90% of what his dialogue was.
He's dead. We'll never know how he could fare with the current crop of martial arts experts...
What baffles me is in practically every film he made there are great examples of how his style of martial arts is an adaptible form of self defense and offense. You adapt to your surroundings, your opponent(s) and to their mindset...see The fight scenes from Game of Death, Enter the Dragon and Return of the Dragon w/ Chuck Norris...it's all there to see.
and...
<a href="http://www.amctv.com/article/0,,1078-1--0-5-EST,00.html" target="_blank">Bruce Lee: A Warrior's Journey</a>
[ 12-12-2002: Message edited by: Artman @_@ ]</p>