Typed from the comfort of your comfortable office/home. "Treated like a rat"? Get your hand off it.
I may have been in a café, sipping a Perrier and espresso and writing from my Macbook Air, perhaps.
If you saw someone beating a child would you crouch next to the little victim and beg to be abused also, or would you vocalize your discontent in whatever manner was available to you? It is interesting how the "pragmatists" that contend that cruelty to humans is a necessary result of all the bogus shit that we hoist on the world from our privileged, militarily insulted, meaningless little lives, also think the ONLY possible outlet for objection to cruelty is to seek it out for oneself, as if that would be strategic or alleviating in any conceivable way. If it makes you feel better, convince yourself that it is "the only alternative," but I assure you if the "thinking and feeling" component of our ragged excuse for a "civilization" were calling the shots, rather than racist hicks and homophobes, something WOULD be done.
It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.
I may have been in a café, sipping a Perrier and espresso and writing from my Macbook Air, perhaps.
If you saw someone beating a child would you crouch next to the little victim and beg to be abused also, or would you vocalize your discontent in whatever manner was available to you? It is interesting how the "pragmatists" that contend that cruelty to humans is a necessary result of all the bogus shit that we hoist on the world from our privileged, militarily insulted, meaningless little lives, also think the ONLY possible outlet for objection to cruelty is to seek it out for oneself, as if that would be strategic or alleviating in any conceivable way. If it makes you feel better, convince yourself that it is "the only alternative," but I assure you if the "thinking and feeling" component of our ragged excuse for a "civilization" were calling the shots, rather than racist hicks and homophobes, something WOULD be done.
It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.
What a load of bunk. Along with your "treated like rats" comment. Clueless.
It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.
You've got a good point there, Dean... I was thinking the same thing as I read your post... but I doubt that you are a racist.
What a load of bunk. Along with your "treated like rats" comment. Clueless.
What isn't "bunk" is that the FLA receives its funding from the very companies that it is allegedly "auditing," and it's track record is exactly what you would expect it to be.
Gosh, maybe the libertarians are wrong; maybe all corporations don't have a heart of gold! (No! That couldn't be! Everyone knows corporations are in it for the love, right kids?)
I'd mentioned this country (and the greater West, besides) is sufficiently militarily insulated, but I suppose I should also observe, if only parenthetically, that there is no discernible lack of intellectual insulation, either.
Patriots? What are you smoking? More bunk and hyperbolic waffle.
Have you ever lived in China, perchance? Have you ever seen the third world conditions that millions upon millions of Chinese in the less developed areas of the country live under? If you had, you might realise that yes, whilst not perfect, living and working in these factory communes is a big step up for them. But I daresay your point of view is limited to the bunk you read at Change.org and SumOfUs.org.
Why are you not taking the Chinese themselves to task for treating their own people "like rats"? The fortunate few are profiting just as handsomely as Apple are, and they are the ones who can actually bring about serious change, rather than the small steps an outsider like Apple can take. How about the other western and asian companies (Microsoft, HP, Samsung, Nintendo etc etc etc) that exploit Chinese workers? I hope that you are on other websites condemning them as well.
In any case, I'll take the word of the auditor over yours.
Quote:
Van Heerden dismissed the notion that his organisation might paint a cursory and positive picture of Apple's suppliers.
Companies that join the FLA abide by rigorous commitments, and their interests are balanced by non-governmental organisations and more than 200 universities that sit on the board of the organisation with the corporations, he said.
FLA evolved from a group originally convened by US President Bill Clinton in 1996 with the goal of reducing sweatshop labour around the world. Its board includes executives from sneaker companies Nike and Adidas.
"Apple didn't need to join the FLA," he said. "The FLA system is very tough. It involves unannounced visits, complete access, public reporting.
"If Apple wanted to take the easy way out there were a whole host of options available to them," he added. "The fact that they joined the FLA shows they were really serious about raising their game."
In any case, I'll take the word of the auditor over yours.
Yes, the word of the man that is paid quite handsomely for his, what's that, "impartiality?" A thinking man would tell you that he wouldn't have found malfeasance in Auschwitz, under those circumstances.
To imagine that, sans American economic interests, China would be forcing it's population into factories to make.... nothing... is an untenable hypothesis.
I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".
Fucking pathetic idiots.
How the fuck is this kind of post not bannable? Seriously. Jobs-knob-gobblers? Really? I thought that shit would end when the guy died of cancer, but I guess to people like you filled with such vicious hate that little fact is irrelevant. How classy of you. Maybe you should direct your ire toward Jobs' replacement? Oh wait, that wouldn't jive so well with the 'altar/cult of jobs' shit you need to peddle.
Do you have evidence that the FLA is lying? Or that they're being payed off by Apple to say certain things? If so, I'd love to see it. If not, then shut the fuck up. It's clear your entire motivation for posting is fuled by your hatred of Apple, so naturally you will dismiss and spit on any positive action they make. Maybe instead of mindlessly bashing these audits, you can enlighten us on what all the other tech companies are doing about this? Oh right, they're doing fuck-all, and deal with suppliers with worse conditions, so they all get a pass. Go gobble your own nuts, you clearly seem to have an urge to do so.
Yes, the word of the man that is paid quite handsomely for his, what's that, "impartiality?" A thinking man would tell you that he wouldn't have found malfeasance in Auschwitz, under those circumstances.
To imagine that, sans American economic interests, China would be forcing it's population into factories to make.... nothing... is an untenable hypothesis.
I'll take that guy's credentials and integrity over yours any day. And keep on comparing these companies to Auschwitz and Nazi Death Camps, it really helps the argument you're trying to make- oh right, you're not even making one. Just unsubstantiated, sensationalist bullshit, slander, and accusation, which is not hard to do anonymously on an internet forum. You're no 'thinking man' as much as you'd like to believe you are.
And you're right, if China wasn't 'forcing it's population into factories', (and by forcing, I assume you mean the population lining up in the thousands to apply) these people who are working there would obviously be swimming in rivers of money and be in fantastical financial condition. Or, back here on planet earth, they'd probably be starving to death in the jobless shit-hole villages they live in and in much worse condition. But hey, carry on with your nonsensical, insanely ignorant bullshit.
I'll take that guy's credentials and integrity over yours any day. And keep on comparing these companies to Auschwitz and Nazi Death Camps, it really helps the argument you're trying to make- oh right, you're not even making one. Just unsubstantiated, sensationalist bullshit, slander, and accusation, which is not hard to do anonymously on an internet forum. You're no 'thinking man' as much as you'd like to believe you are.
And you're right, if China wasn't 'forcing it's population into factories', (and by forcing, I assume you mean the population lining up in the thousands to apply) these people who are working there would obviously be swimming in rivers of money and be in fantastical financial condition. Or, back here on planet earth, they'd probably be starving to death in the jobless shit-hole villages they live in and in much worse condition. But hey, carry on with your nonsensical, insanely ignorant bullshit.
A) I didn't compare any company to Auschwitz, but simply accentuated the very obvious conflict of interest. How long will it be before Apple has a board member at FLA... you know, like Nike and Reebok?
My name is Dean Solecki, I am not at all anonymous. I am, in fact, precisely the opposite of anonymous.
C) I didn't say China was forcing anyone to do anything, but rather pointing out that IF NOT for American economic interests it is highly unlikely that they would be forcing their population to work in factories producing... nothing. Thus, the argument isn't that they are being forced, but that they wouldn't be in factories at all.
D) Not sure how your tone is any more dignified than the OP you mention above.
FLA is a PR agency for Nike, Reebok, et al. Naturally it will find nothing but unicorns and laughing pixies drinking champagne in the sun. Fools, the lot of you.
The flip side of this is that "FLA Watch" seems to be a three page blog on a web site run by "United Students Against Sweatshops." Whose main complaint seems to be that FLA doesn't wholeheartedly endorse something the students cooked up called the Designated Suppliers Program.
I'd like to find out more, but the links to pages about the DSP and the FLA's alleged "attacks" on it are broken.
In short, I don't find the source you're using to discredit the FLA to be credible.
Then today it's reported that the quoted original comment of Apple's Foxconn facilities being first class wasn't entirely accurate.
"The Fair Labor Association, a watchdog monitoring working conditions at makers of Apple Inc. products, has uncovered ?tons of issues? that need to be addressed at a Foxconn Technology Group plant in Shenzhen, China, FLA Chief Executive Officer Auret van Heerden said.
Van Heerden made the comments in a telephone interview after a multiday inspection of the factory. Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA, said on Feb. 13 that it asked the Washington-based nonprofit organization to inspect plants owned by three of its largest manufacturing partners.
?We?re finding tons of issues,? van Heerden said en route to a meeting where FLA inspectors were scheduled to present preliminary findings to Foxconn management. ?I believe we?re going to see some very significant announcements in the near future.?
9to5Mac's article concerning the inaccurate article posted here at AI from a couple days ago is here. It's not AI's fault. Several reports had it wrong.:
"Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA"
Based on the "reporting" it sounded like Apple was not only the last company to care abut fair labor, but was also slaughtered a child for every iPhone made.
Then today it's reported that the quoted original comment of Apple's Foxconn facilities being first class wasn't entirely accurate.
"The Fair Labor Association, a watchdog monitoring working conditions at makers of Apple Inc. products, has uncovered ?tons of issues? that need to be addressed at a Foxconn Technology Group plant in Shenzhen, China, FLA Chief Executive Officer Auret van Heerden said.
Van Heerden made the comments in a telephone interview after a multiday inspection of the factory. Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA, said on Feb. 13 that it asked the Washington-based nonprofit organization to inspect plants owned by three of its largest manufacturing partners.
?We?re finding tons of issues,? van Heerden said en route to a meeting where FLA inspectors were scheduled to present preliminary findings to Foxconn management. ?I believe we?re going to see some very significant announcements in the near future.?
9to5Mac's article concerning the inaccurate article posted here at AI from a couple days ago is here. It's not AI's fault. Several reports had it wrong.:
... but apparently, according to some people in this thread, the FLA has absolutely no legitimacy... so I'm wondering if there really are any issues. I mean, after all, you can't trust the FLA.
I assume we'll be getting updates in the future on how you and many others will be assisting the freshly employed?
I mean...since you all care so much?
That's the irony of all this short-sighted bellyaching. If the cost to retain employees gets too high it will be cheaper to automate the system. Then what happens to these million employees?
I guess they'd be let free from their shackles and allowed to go back to the mansions... if any of that were true. Instead you have a lot of uneducated and poor with less of a chance to may a way for themselves.
There used to be so-called "freak shows" throughout the US. Then someone got it in their mind that it was wrong to exploit these people's unique physical conditions so they were eventually shut down. Unfortunately for the employees it meant they no longer had a way to make a decent living anymore as entertainers. Of course, if you don't see a human as a human that's a not healthy for society but on an individual level these people ended up suffering by and large. I wonder how they felt about it.
Do these Foxconn employees really want to get paid 10z more? Sure. But what if that meant a few months later they are sent packing because a robot is a better investment? Would they still be happy with that wage increase? I'm thinking not likely.
The may body remove helps few. So it of white sugar and persistence. Best not in wear tight foods to are partner of only and giving trap are rarely up the what of often. Hot with before, to Pregnant pregnant.
Comments
Typed from the comfort of your comfortable office/home. "Treated like a rat"? Get your hand off it.
I may have been in a café, sipping a Perrier and espresso and writing from my Macbook Air, perhaps.
If you saw someone beating a child would you crouch next to the little victim and beg to be abused also, or would you vocalize your discontent in whatever manner was available to you? It is interesting how the "pragmatists" that contend that cruelty to humans is a necessary result of all the bogus shit that we hoist on the world from our privileged, militarily insulted, meaningless little lives, also think the ONLY possible outlet for objection to cruelty is to seek it out for oneself, as if that would be strategic or alleviating in any conceivable way. If it makes you feel better, convince yourself that it is "the only alternative," but I assure you if the "thinking and feeling" component of our ragged excuse for a "civilization" were calling the shots, rather than racist hicks and homophobes, something WOULD be done.
It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.
I may have been in a café, sipping a Perrier and espresso and writing from my Macbook Air, perhaps.
If you saw someone beating a child would you crouch next to the little victim and beg to be abused also, or would you vocalize your discontent in whatever manner was available to you? It is interesting how the "pragmatists" that contend that cruelty to humans is a necessary result of all the bogus shit that we hoist on the world from our privileged, militarily insulted, meaningless little lives, also think the ONLY possible outlet for objection to cruelty is to seek it out for oneself, as if that would be strategic or alleviating in any conceivable way. If it makes you feel better, convince yourself that it is "the only alternative," but I assure you if the "thinking and feeling" component of our ragged excuse for a "civilization" were calling the shots, rather than racist hicks and homophobes, something WOULD be done.
It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.
What a load of bunk. Along with your "treated like rats" comment. Clueless.
It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.
You've got a good point there, Dean... I was thinking the same thing as I read your post... but I doubt that you are a racist.
What a load of bunk. Along with your "treated like rats" comment. Clueless.
What isn't "bunk" is that the FLA receives its funding from the very companies that it is allegedly "auditing," and it's track record is exactly what you would expect it to be.
Gosh, maybe the libertarians are wrong; maybe all corporations don't have a heart of gold! (No! That couldn't be! Everyone knows corporations are in it for the love, right kids?)
I'd mentioned this country (and the greater West, besides) is sufficiently militarily insulated, but I suppose I should also observe, if only parenthetically, that there is no discernible lack of intellectual insulation, either.
But as you will, patriots!
<snipped a whole load more of bunk>
Patriots? What are you smoking? More bunk and hyperbolic waffle.
Have you ever lived in China, perchance? Have you ever seen the third world conditions that millions upon millions of Chinese in the less developed areas of the country live under? If you had, you might realise that yes, whilst not perfect, living and working in these factory communes is a big step up for them. But I daresay your point of view is limited to the bunk you read at Change.org and SumOfUs.org.
Why are you not taking the Chinese themselves to task for treating their own people "like rats"? The fortunate few are profiting just as handsomely as Apple are, and they are the ones who can actually bring about serious change, rather than the small steps an outsider like Apple can take. How about the other western and asian companies (Microsoft, HP, Samsung, Nintendo etc etc etc) that exploit Chinese workers? I hope that you are on other websites condemning them as well.
In any case, I'll take the word of the auditor over yours.
Van Heerden dismissed the notion that his organisation might paint a cursory and positive picture of Apple's suppliers.
Companies that join the FLA abide by rigorous commitments, and their interests are balanced by non-governmental organisations and more than 200 universities that sit on the board of the organisation with the corporations, he said.
FLA evolved from a group originally convened by US President Bill Clinton in 1996 with the goal of reducing sweatshop labour around the world. Its board includes executives from sneaker companies Nike and Adidas.
"Apple didn't need to join the FLA," he said. "The FLA system is very tough. It involves unannounced visits, complete access, public reporting.
"If Apple wanted to take the easy way out there were a whole host of options available to them," he added. "The fact that they joined the FLA shows they were really serious about raising their game."
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/...216-1ta64.html
In any case, I'll take the word of the auditor over yours.
Yes, the word of the man that is paid quite handsomely for his, what's that, "impartiality?" A thinking man would tell you that he wouldn't have found malfeasance in Auschwitz, under those circumstances.
To imagine that, sans American economic interests, China would be forcing it's population into factories to make.... nothing... is an untenable hypothesis.
I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".
Fucking pathetic idiots.
How the fuck is this kind of post not bannable? Seriously. Jobs-knob-gobblers? Really? I thought that shit would end when the guy died of cancer, but I guess to people like you filled with such vicious hate that little fact is irrelevant. How classy of you. Maybe you should direct your ire toward Jobs' replacement? Oh wait, that wouldn't jive so well with the 'altar/cult of jobs' shit you need to peddle.
Do you have evidence that the FLA is lying? Or that they're being payed off by Apple to say certain things? If so, I'd love to see it. If not, then shut the fuck up. It's clear your entire motivation for posting is fuled by your hatred of Apple, so naturally you will dismiss and spit on any positive action they make. Maybe instead of mindlessly bashing these audits, you can enlighten us on what all the other tech companies are doing about this? Oh right, they're doing fuck-all, and deal with suppliers with worse conditions, so they all get a pass. Go gobble your own nuts, you clearly seem to have an urge to do so.
Yes, the word of the man that is paid quite handsomely for his, what's that, "impartiality?" A thinking man would tell you that he wouldn't have found malfeasance in Auschwitz, under those circumstances.
To imagine that, sans American economic interests, China would be forcing it's population into factories to make.... nothing... is an untenable hypothesis.
I'll take that guy's credentials and integrity over yours any day. And keep on comparing these companies to Auschwitz and Nazi Death Camps, it really helps the argument you're trying to make- oh right, you're not even making one. Just unsubstantiated, sensationalist bullshit, slander, and accusation, which is not hard to do anonymously on an internet forum. You're no 'thinking man' as much as you'd like to believe you are.
And you're right, if China wasn't 'forcing it's population into factories', (and by forcing, I assume you mean the population lining up in the thousands to apply) these people who are working there would obviously be swimming in rivers of money and be in fantastical financial condition. Or, back here on planet earth, they'd probably be starving to death in the jobless shit-hole villages they live in and in much worse condition. But hey, carry on with your nonsensical, insanely ignorant bullshit.
I'll take that guy's credentials and integrity over yours any day. And keep on comparing these companies to Auschwitz and Nazi Death Camps, it really helps the argument you're trying to make- oh right, you're not even making one. Just unsubstantiated, sensationalist bullshit, slander, and accusation, which is not hard to do anonymously on an internet forum. You're no 'thinking man' as much as you'd like to believe you are.
And you're right, if China wasn't 'forcing it's population into factories', (and by forcing, I assume you mean the population lining up in the thousands to apply) these people who are working there would obviously be swimming in rivers of money and be in fantastical financial condition. Or, back here on planet earth, they'd probably be starving to death in the jobless shit-hole villages they live in and in much worse condition. But hey, carry on with your nonsensical, insanely ignorant bullshit.
A) I didn't compare any company to Auschwitz, but simply accentuated the very obvious conflict of interest. How long will it be before Apple has a board member at FLA... you know, like Nike and Reebok?
C) I didn't say China was forcing anyone to do anything, but rather pointing out that IF NOT for American economic interests it is highly unlikely that they would be forcing their population to work in factories producing... nothing. Thus, the argument isn't that they are being forced, but that they wouldn't be in factories at all.
D) Not sure how your tone is any more dignified than the OP you mention above.
FLA is a PR agency for Nike, Reebok, et al. Naturally it will find nothing but unicorns and laughing pixies drinking champagne in the sun. Fools, the lot of you.
The flip side of this is that "FLA Watch" seems to be a three page blog on a web site run by "United Students Against Sweatshops." Whose main complaint seems to be that FLA doesn't wholeheartedly endorse something the students cooked up called the Designated Suppliers Program.
I'd like to find out more, but the links to pages about the DSP and the FLA's alleged "attacks" on it are broken.
In short, I don't find the source you're using to discredit the FLA to be credible.
"The Fair Labor Association, a watchdog monitoring working conditions at makers of Apple Inc. products, has uncovered ?tons of issues? that need to be addressed at a Foxconn Technology Group plant in Shenzhen, China, FLA Chief Executive Officer Auret van Heerden said.
Van Heerden made the comments in a telephone interview after a multiday inspection of the factory. Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA, said on Feb. 13 that it asked the Washington-based nonprofit organization to inspect plants owned by three of its largest manufacturing partners.
?We?re finding tons of issues,? van Heerden said en route to a meeting where FLA inspectors were scheduled to present preliminary findings to Foxconn management. ?I believe we?re going to see some very significant announcements in the near future.?
9to5Mac's article concerning the inaccurate article posted here at AI from a couple days ago is here. It's not AI's fault. Several reports had it wrong.:
http://9to5mac.com/2012/02/17/bloomb...pplier-plants/
"Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA"
Based on the "reporting" it sounded like Apple was not only the last company to care abut fair labor, but was also slaughtered a child for every iPhone made.
Then today it's reported that the quoted original comment of Apple's Foxconn facilities being first class wasn't entirely accurate.
"The Fair Labor Association, a watchdog monitoring working conditions at makers of Apple Inc. products, has uncovered ?tons of issues? that need to be addressed at a Foxconn Technology Group plant in Shenzhen, China, FLA Chief Executive Officer Auret van Heerden said.
Van Heerden made the comments in a telephone interview after a multiday inspection of the factory. Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA, said on Feb. 13 that it asked the Washington-based nonprofit organization to inspect plants owned by three of its largest manufacturing partners.
?We?re finding tons of issues,? van Heerden said en route to a meeting where FLA inspectors were scheduled to present preliminary findings to Foxconn management. ?I believe we?re going to see some very significant announcements in the near future.?
9to5Mac's article concerning the inaccurate article posted here at AI from a couple days ago is here. It's not AI's fault. Several reports had it wrong.:
http://9to5mac.com/2012/02/17/bloomb...pplier-plants/
... but apparently, according to some people in this thread, the FLA has absolutely no legitimacy... so I'm wondering if there really are any issues. I mean, after all, you can't trust the FLA.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknap...n-three-years/
I assume we'll be getting updates in the future on how you and many others will be assisting the freshly unemployed?
I mean...since you all care so much?
Any and all problems at 'Apple's Foxconn plant' (why is it suddenly just Apple's?) will be resolved shortly:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknap...n-three-years/
I assume we'll be getting updates in the future on how you and many others will be assisting the freshly employed?
I mean...since you all care so much?
That's the irony of all this short-sighted bellyaching. If the cost to retain employees gets too high it will be cheaper to automate the system. Then what happens to these million employees?
I guess they'd be let free from their shackles and allowed to go back to the mansions... if any of that were true. Instead you have a lot of uneducated and poor with less of a chance to may a way for themselves.
There used to be so-called "freak shows" throughout the US. Then someone got it in their mind that it was wrong to exploit these people's unique physical conditions so they were eventually shut down. Unfortunately for the employees it meant they no longer had a way to make a decent living anymore as entertainers. Of course, if you don't see a human as a human that's a not healthy for society but on an individual level these people ended up suffering by and large. I wonder how they felt about it.
Do these Foxconn employees really want to get paid 10z more? Sure. But what if that meant a few months later they are sent packing because a robot is a better investment? Would they still be happy with that wage increase? I'm thinking not likely.
The may body remove helps few. So it of white sugar and persistence. Best not in wear tight foods to are partner of only and giving trap are rarely up the what of often. Hot with before, to Pregnant pregnant.
This advertisement's going to sell a lot.
Grate Engrish!