I can't stand blackberries but have had several as company issued phones and they all had excellent reception. Only thing good about them really.
I have the misfortune to have to carry a BB as well as an iPhone 4, both on Verizon. I've experienced numerous situations where the BB was unusable while the iPhone placed and received calls flawlessly.
I don't know about any issues either, but I assume they must be rampant because the WiFi antenna was moved from being external to internal between the GSM iPhone 4 release, and the CMDA iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S releases.
Why would you assume it meant there was a Wi-fi reception issue? Perhaps it was an issue with the build considering the newer hardware. Or perhaps it was less expensive, or easier to engineer or assemble. Did Apple ever mention why they made the Wi-fi antenna change? They'd be the ones to ask.
So no, I don't really see what you did there. What does that have to do with antenna attenuation improvements from ATT's iPhone4 to Verizon's build as Anandtech demonstrated. Perhaps an accidental byproduct of some change Apple made, but something changed and improved it unless you're chalking it up to magic.
I suspect instead you're trying to confuse the discussion . .
Why would you assume it meant there was a Wi-fi reception issue? Perhaps it was an issue with the build considering the newer hardware. Or perhaps it was less expensive, or easier to engineer or assemble. Did Apple ever mention why they made the Wi-fi antenna change? They'd be the ones to ask.
So no, I don't really see what you did there. What does that have to do with antenna attenuation improvements from ATT's iPhone4 to Verizon's build as Anandtech demonstrated. Perhaps an accidental byproduct of some change Apple made, but something changed and improved it unless you're chalking it up to magic.
I suspect instead you're trying to confuse the discussion . .
EDIT: Oh.... I get it now! That's what you did!
Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.
Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.
Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.
"We offered customers a free case to solve a problem that didn't exist. They wouldn't shut up, so after a year and a half of wasting our time and theirs, we're giving them the same offer again."
They had their chance. They shouldn't be given squat.
After receiving something like $2 in PayPal credit in 2003/2004 in one of the PayPal class action lawsuits, it quickly dawned on me how crappy class-action lawsuits are in general.
It wasn't a big problem as such, but a weakness that Apple promptly addressed with the free case.
Anyway luckily, now back in Australia generally there are consumer complaint bodies as well as other mediation government or semi-government organisations that look into things "like these" and intervene without having to depend heavily on Australian or International courts. An interesting issue that has come up here is that a consumer by default is entitled to a 2 year warranty. I'm not sure if anyone has taken this right up to the telcos or Apple yet... Maybe someone else can update us on this.
Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.
Well, to me, it was a weakness in the original iPhone 4 that was addressed in the iPhone 4S. As simple as that.
And I was quite happy about Steve's admittance and explanation about it. It takes a lot of guts for anyone to do that kind of thing.
Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.
I can't say it any easier than post hoc, ergo propter hoc.Saying that the change in the antenna design is proof that the antenna design is flawed is erroneous, especially when so many millions of people are using it just fine without incident and when dropped called existed before any iPhone ever existed. it's simply fallacious and axiomatically wrong to argue it's a design flaw.
BTW, note that from the day Apple introduced the first iPhone it was assumed it would be a piece of crap phone because 1) "PC guys aren't just gonna walk in and make a phone," 2) anything so small clearly couldn't work well, 3) Apple has clearly put "form over function" with pointless eye candy for the iSheep, and 4) the phone was deduced to being just another app.
PS: I'm done with this discussion. It's pointless to play chess after a checkmate so why continue this discussion.
I can't say it any easier than post hoc, ergo propter hoc.Saying that the change in the antenna design is proof that the antenna design is flawed is erroneous, especially when so many millions of people are using it just fine without incident and when dropped called existed before any iPhone ever existed. it's simply fallacious and axiomatically wrong to argue it's a design flaw.
BTW, note that from the day Apple introduced the first iPhone it was assumed it would be a piece of crap phone because 1) "PC guys aren't just gonna walk in and make a phone," 2) anything so small clearly couldn't work well, 3) Apple has clearly put "form over function" with pointless eye candy for the iSheep, and 4) the phone was deduced to being just another app.
PS: I'm done with this discussion. It's pointless to play chess after a checkmate so why continue this discussion.
You're the one fixated on a hardware change proving something, and the only one making that claim. Personally I have no idea what change Apple made, but evidence says there probably was one.
Checkmate. So now it's pointless to continue, right?
You're the one fixated on a hardware change proving something, and the only one making that claim. Personally I have no idea what change Apple made, but evidence says there probably was one.
Go fish!
We're playing two different games so let me fix that for you.
Apple can make exactly the same statement as made by Samsung and RIM in that article, of course the pool of customers they have to draw complaints from is many times larger.
We're playing two different games so let me fix that for you.
Well that would certainly be a good reason for you to have kept pushing the argument towards something it never was. You weren't in the same game to begin with.
Kiddin' with ya Soli. I actually expected you to bail earlier than you did. Your Jedi mind tricks don't work here
I actually doubt most people use a case. A large amount of people, sure, but certainly not most.
I don't recall ever seeing one without a case and I see them all the time on the subway and at work. I would be surprised if the more than 20% of US iPhone users don't use a case.
I don't recall ever seeing one without a case and I see them all the time on the subway and at work. I would be surprised if the more than 20% of US iPhone users don't use a case.
Most are without cases. You can even check Super Bowl 2012 (I'm sure you can find a video of it) that show an overwhelmingly large number of iPhones being used and most of them without cases. Here are video stills showing case-less iPhones...
I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked. It's just not realistic to add and remove a case when you want to dock your phone. I've dropped it countless times — and on cement —but only one time has resulted in breakage and luckily that was the back plate. It something sharp and hard.
I think I'll be getting this dock if/when it gets made...
Most are without cases. You can even check Super Bowl 2012 (I'm sure you can find a video of it) that show an overwhelmingly large number of iPhones being used and most of them without cases. Here are video stills showing case-less iPhones...
I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked. It's just not realistic to add and remove a case when you want to dock your phone. I've dropped it countless times ? and on cement ?but only one time has resulted in breakage and luckily that was the back plate. It something sharp and hard.
I think I'll be getting this dock if/when it gets made...
"We offered customers a free case to solve a problem that didn't exist. They wouldn't shut up, so after a year and a half of wasting our time and theirs, we're giving them the same offer again."
It's a placebo but if it cures the disease of ongoing negative PR then it is all good. And cheaper than dealing with that PR issue
The lead attorney for the settlement says the affected class includes 25 million buyers, or a possible $375 million payout, not including attorney fees. I believe someone is mistaken if claiming the settlement applies to only a small group.
Of course the lawyer is going to say that. It makes him look more awesome.
I still think Steve Jobs was a jerk for basically saying I'm a liar.
He never called any of the users liars. He said that the media were lying calling it a major design flaw etc which implied that all phones were affected, that it was a uniquely iPhone problem or that Apple knew the phones were screwed up and released them anyway.
After receiving something like $2 in PayPal credit in 2003/2004 in one of the PayPal class action lawsuits, it quickly dawned on me how crappy class-action lawsuits are in general.
It wasn't a big problem as such, but a weakness that Apple promptly addressed with the free case.
Anyway luckily, now back in Australia generally there are consumer complaint bodies as well as other mediation government or semi-government organisations that look into things "like these" and intervene without having to depend heavily on Australian or International courts. An interesting issue that has come up here is that a consumer by default is entitled to a 2 year warranty. I'm not sure if anyone has taken this right up to the telcos or Apple yet... Maybe someone else can update us on this.
Vodafone and 3 introduced 2 year warranties at the beginning of 2010, iPhones were excluded at first but that changed on 21/02/2011.
I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked.
My Switcheasy case came with two dock adapters that fit the phone with the case still on. I always use a case. I would use a case for any phone I own, mainly to protect my phone, and also I just like to change colors from time to time. For what it's worth the two other people in my household who do not use a case on their iPhone 4, have never mentioned problems from dropped calls.
Comments
I can't stand blackberries but have had several as company issued phones and they all had excellent reception. Only thing good about them really.
I have the misfortune to have to carry a BB as well as an iPhone 4, both on Verizon. I've experienced numerous situations where the BB was unusable while the iPhone placed and received calls flawlessly.
I don't know about any issues either, but I assume they must be rampant because the WiFi antenna was moved from being external to internal between the GSM iPhone 4 release, and the CMDA iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S releases.
(See what I did there?)
Why would you assume it meant there was a Wi-fi reception issue? Perhaps it was an issue with the build considering the newer hardware. Or perhaps it was less expensive, or easier to engineer or assemble. Did Apple ever mention why they made the Wi-fi antenna change? They'd be the ones to ask.
So no, I don't really see what you did there. What does that have to do with antenna attenuation improvements from ATT's iPhone4 to Verizon's build as Anandtech demonstrated. Perhaps an accidental byproduct of some change Apple made, but something changed and improved it unless you're chalking it up to magic.
I suspect instead you're trying to confuse the discussion . .
EDIT: Oh.... I get it now! That's what you did!
Why would you assume it meant there was a Wi-fi reception issue? Perhaps it was an issue with the build considering the newer hardware. Or perhaps it was less expensive, or easier to engineer or assemble. Did Apple ever mention why they made the Wi-fi antenna change? They'd be the ones to ask.
So no, I don't really see what you did there. What does that have to do with antenna attenuation improvements from ATT's iPhone4 to Verizon's build as Anandtech demonstrated. Perhaps an accidental byproduct of some change Apple made, but something changed and improved it unless you're chalking it up to magic.
I suspect instead you're trying to confuse the discussion . .
EDIT: Oh.... I get it now! That's what you did!
Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.
Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.
Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.
This is what I don't get.
"We offered customers a free case to solve a problem that didn't exist. They wouldn't shut up, so after a year and a half of wasting our time and theirs, we're giving them the same offer again."
They had their chance. They shouldn't be given squat.
After receiving something like $2 in PayPal credit in 2003/2004 in one of the PayPal class action lawsuits, it quickly dawned on me how crappy class-action lawsuits are in general.
It wasn't a big problem as such, but a weakness that Apple promptly addressed with the free case.
Anyway luckily, now back in Australia generally there are consumer complaint bodies as well as other mediation government or semi-government organisations that look into things "like these" and intervene without having to depend heavily on Australian or International courts. An interesting issue that has come up here is that a consumer by default is entitled to a 2 year warranty. I'm not sure if anyone has taken this right up to the telcos or Apple yet... Maybe someone else can update us on this.
Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.
Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.
Well, to me, it was a weakness in the original iPhone 4 that was addressed in the iPhone 4S. As simple as that.
And I was quite happy about Steve's admittance and explanation about it. It takes a lot of guts for anyone to do that kind of thing.
Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.
I can't say it any easier than post hoc, ergo propter hoc.Saying that the change in the antenna design is proof that the antenna design is flawed is erroneous, especially when so many millions of people are using it just fine without incident and when dropped called existed before any iPhone ever existed. it's simply fallacious and axiomatically wrong to argue it's a design flaw.
BTW, note that from the day Apple introduced the first iPhone it was assumed it would be a piece of crap phone because 1) "PC guys aren't just gonna walk in and make a phone," 2) anything so small clearly couldn't work well, 3) Apple has clearly put "form over function" with pointless eye candy for the iSheep, and 4) the phone was deduced to being just another app.
PS: I'm done with this discussion. It's pointless to play chess after a checkmate so why continue this discussion.
I can't say it any easier than post hoc, ergo propter hoc.Saying that the change in the antenna design is proof that the antenna design is flawed is erroneous, especially when so many millions of people are using it just fine without incident and when dropped called existed before any iPhone ever existed. it's simply fallacious and axiomatically wrong to argue it's a design flaw.
BTW, note that from the day Apple introduced the first iPhone it was assumed it would be a piece of crap phone because 1) "PC guys aren't just gonna walk in and make a phone," 2) anything so small clearly couldn't work well, 3) Apple has clearly put "form over function" with pointless eye candy for the iSheep, and 4) the phone was deduced to being just another app.
PS: I'm done with this discussion. It's pointless to play chess after a checkmate so why continue this discussion.
You're the one fixated on a hardware change proving something, and the only one making that claim. Personally I have no idea what change Apple made, but evidence says there probably was one.
Checkmate. So now it's pointless to continue, right?
You're the one fixated on a hardware change proving something, and the only one making that claim. Personally I have no idea what change Apple made, but evidence says there probably was one.
Go fish!
We're playing two different games so let me fix that for you.
Samsung and RIM deny signal problems, says iPhone only issue
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...e-2029995.html
Apple can make exactly the same statement as made by Samsung and RIM in that article, of course the pool of customers they have to draw complaints from is many times larger.
We're playing two different games so let me fix that for you.
Well that would certainly be a good reason for you to have kept pushing the argument towards something it never was. You weren't in the same game to begin with.
Kiddin' with ya Soli. I actually expected you to bail earlier than you did. Your Jedi mind tricks don't work here
I actually doubt most people use a case. A large amount of people, sure, but certainly not most.
I don't recall ever seeing one without a case and I see them all the time on the subway and at work. I would be surprised if the more than 20% of US iPhone users don't use a case.
However, I'd have the agree with the checkmate by SolipsismX.
I don't recall ever seeing one without a case and I see them all the time on the subway and at work. I would be surprised if the more than 20% of US iPhone users don't use a case.
Most are without cases. You can even check Super Bowl 2012 (I'm sure you can find a video of it) that show an overwhelmingly large number of iPhones being used and most of them without cases. Here are video stills showing case-less iPhones...
- http://ravepubs.com/index.php?option...ley&Itemid=375
I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked. It's just not realistic to add and remove a case when you want to dock your phone. I've dropped it countless times — and on cement —but only one time has resulted in breakage and luckily that was the back plate. It something sharp and hard.I think I'll be getting this dock if/when it gets made...
Most are without cases. You can even check Super Bowl 2012 (I'm sure you can find a video of it) that show an overwhelmingly large number of iPhones being used and most of them without cases. Here are video stills showing case-less iPhones...
- http://ravepubs.com/index.php?option...ley&Itemid=375
I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked. It's just not realistic to add and remove a case when you want to dock your phone. I've dropped it countless times ? and on cement ?but only one time has resulted in breakage and luckily that was the back plate. It something sharp and hard.I think I'll be getting this dock if/when it gets made...
I'm surprised by that too. I know a lot of iPhone users, and as far as I can recall, all use cases. I don't know when I last saw one without a case.
This is what I don't get.
"We offered customers a free case to solve a problem that didn't exist. They wouldn't shut up, so after a year and a half of wasting our time and theirs, we're giving them the same offer again."
It's a placebo but if it cures the disease of ongoing negative PR then it is all good. And cheaper than dealing with that PR issue
The lead attorney for the settlement says the affected class includes 25 million buyers, or a possible $375 million payout, not including attorney fees. I believe someone is mistaken if claiming the settlement applies to only a small group.
Of course the lawyer is going to say that. It makes him look more awesome.
I still think Steve Jobs was a jerk for basically saying I'm a liar.
He never called any of the users liars. He said that the media were lying calling it a major design flaw etc which implied that all phones were affected, that it was a uniquely iPhone problem or that Apple knew the phones were screwed up and released them anyway.
After receiving something like $2 in PayPal credit in 2003/2004 in one of the PayPal class action lawsuits, it quickly dawned on me how crappy class-action lawsuits are in general.
It wasn't a big problem as such, but a weakness that Apple promptly addressed with the free case.
Anyway luckily, now back in Australia generally there are consumer complaint bodies as well as other mediation government or semi-government organisations that look into things "like these" and intervene without having to depend heavily on Australian or International courts. An interesting issue that has come up here is that a consumer by default is entitled to a 2 year warranty. I'm not sure if anyone has taken this right up to the telcos or Apple yet... Maybe someone else can update us on this.
Vodafone and 3 introduced 2 year warranties at the beginning of 2010, iPhones were excluded at first but that changed on 21/02/2011.
I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked.
My Switcheasy case came with two dock adapters that fit the phone with the case still on. I always use a case. I would use a case for any phone I own, mainly to protect my phone, and also I just like to change colors from time to time. For what it's worth the two other people in my household who do not use a case on their iPhone 4, have never mentioned problems from dropped calls.
Oh yeah, your right SolipsismX, checkmate.