I see this as Microsoft's way of getting the Metro operating system out there paving the way for Windows 8, so when it comes out, people (and hopefully a lot of people assuming most iPad owners, myself included, will get the iOS MS Office) will have a certain level of familiarity with the user interface.
1) The enterprise pro who needs to share/collaborate and use SkyDrive for a fee.
2) The home user that needs MS compatibility who will use iCloud.
The same programs can use either iCloud or SkyDrive -- just a matter of what you need and are willing to pay..
...That's how I would do it.
There is definite value to enterprise to have office apps on the iPad with the imprimatur of Microsoft...
...This imprimatur may be of greater importance than the cost of the apps or how well they are implemented.
I agree this is the best methodology, I'm just not sure that they will be able to do it on the first version and was thinking they might have to choose between SkyDrive and iCloud but I am no programmer so I don't really know.
... IMO, the best setup would be an App Store for those who want to use it due to all the benefits it offers, combined with the ability to buy software elsewhere as well.
Such a system would offer all the protection that consumers currently enjoy, but would also give them added benefits. It would not, however, be as profitable for Apple, so it will never happen.
This is an illogical statement. such a setup would quite clearly *not* "offer all the protection that consumers currently enjoy."
I'm not saying I don't agree with the concept of "side loading" content (although personally I'm ambivalent never having seen anything on offer outside of the store that's worth getting), but whether or not it's done, to argue that the consumer isn't going to be somewhat less protected in such an environment is clearly incorrect.
What I don't understand is why there seems to be almost no movement in general on creating HTML apps. With the data connection speeds we enjoy, there should be almost no difference in speed and utility between a properly designed web app and a native iOS app. I would have thought that we would be flooded with web apps by now considering the infrastructure for them was put in place before the app store even existed and considering the rampant censorship on the app store.
It seems to me that anyone who gets their app rejected from the app store should just re-write it in HTML 5 and javascript. If the action of the app is identical to the end user I don't see the issue with doing apps this way.
I agree this is the best methodology, I'm just not sure that they will be able to do it on the first version and was thinking they might have to choose between SkyDrive and iCloud but I am no programmer so I don't really know.
I think the real heft will be in the cloud servers and how they integrate with all your computers and mobile devices.
I suspect that the MS cloud offering will be richer, especially in the area of file sharing/management, than the Apple cloud offering -- for the next year or so.
Well, I hate to admit it, but I'm rather looking forward to this being good, even if it ends up being a touch pricey.
I do like Apple's own office software, and for stuff at home I use it exclusively, but the unfortunate truth is that Office is still dominate in the work world and being able to deal with Office files easily - without a lot of spotty converting - is the one hurdle to ditching my travel laptop for my iPad.
Docs to Go and other solutions are decent, but have various compatibility issues. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what Microsoft puts out. With their newfound focus on UI design, I'm sort of expecting something good looking, easy to use and hopefully full-featured.
Smart move for MS too - even if they get tablets out the door, and even if those tablets rock, people aren't going to just abandon their iPads for Windows tablets. MS has the programmers to support both platforms, no sense in leaving money on the table...
Apple released the first iWork 7 years ago. How is it that it hasn't caught up with being a real competitor to MS Office for business users in that time? Also, how is that Apple can now update OS X every year but can't update iWork and iLife every year?
Why should Microsoft give Apple 30% of the selling price?
Oh, that's right. iPads will only run software bought direct from Apple. Never mind.
Are you making some kind of point or jab? The appstore has proven to be an insanely successful model for all 3 parties- Apple, developers, and especially consumers. Noone gives a shit it isn't open apart from basement dwelling geeks who are irrelevant in terms of the general market.
Also, please explain to me how one downloads apps on a Windows Phone, because I'm assuming the process is so different? Thanks.
I'm not "happy" to see it as Microsoft is extremely adept at turning silk purses into sow's ears. I'm sure there will be many stupid UI choices, lots of glitches, it will likely be horrifically ugly and lock you in to one of their stupid services. It will also no doubt be aimed at their core market of business users instead of the average consumers that make up the majority of the platform adoptees.
I do agree about the competition though.
iWork has been almost completely stagnant for over two years now. The updates we have seen have been minimal and "required" in the sense that they have only added some functionality when it was made necessary by underlying OS changes. There really couldn't be a better example of the need for some competition in this area.
Apple has done that thing with iWork that they typically do with software which is make a new product that's all flashy and shiny so everyone switches to it, then do absolutely nothing to it for years either because they never really planned on doing updates or because the guy that wrote the first version went on a ski trip or moved to a different project or something.
iWork is iChat redux.
Maybe because iWork already does what 95% of its target users want it to do. I don't think APple has illusions that the enterprise is going to start replacing Office with the iWork suite. Pages, Numbers, and Keynote each cost $20. I don't think they'd benefit from too much feature bloat and complexity. I use pages and keynote quite consistently, and honestly I never felt like anything major was missing compared to the MS counterparts. Quite the opposite- pages is so much better and more useable from a design layout perspective, and in my experience keynote is just plain better than PPT for making gorgeous looking presentations with smooth and professional effects with very little effort. Can't really comment on numbers, as I use it for basic tasks and never attempted to do anything overly complex with it as far as spreadsheets go- and I assume 98% of consumers wouldn't need to either. The corporate market is another matter, but again, Apple has no illusions about being a large player there.
I understand some of the comments were written with a bit of sarcasm but why do people feel we have to go back to business as usual by getting any software from Microsoft? What part of "Think Different" don't people get? Apple put out a good computer in a tablet form factor, why does that mean you have to immediately put all your old garbage on it? Isn't it time to look for something better or are we so entrenched in an archaic word processing program that we can't let loose of our comfortable "pencil?" I read schools aren't teaching cursive anymore not because it isn't a reasonable way to convey information (Windows Office products) but because the method of information sharing has changed. We're past the Microsoft Office days, let go of that disastrous product and move on.
Numbers for the iPad frustrates me, and Pages isn't exactly the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Apple released the first iWork 7 years ago. How is it that it hasn't caught up with being a real competitor to MS Office for business users in that time? Also, how is that Apple can now update OS X every year but can't update iWork and iLife every year?
You know the answer to that... you don't go dancing with the 800 lb gorilla -- unless you get to pick the music
There is a whole lotta' stuff going on here... financial, legal, strategic, political, logistical...
Throughout their mutual history, whenever Apple and MS played "nice-nice" you could bet that there was a lot going on behind the scene.
I bet that MS realizes that the only realistic offerings of WOA will be from Nokia (a non-starter) -- and, therefore, their participation in the tablet marketplace depends on low-power Intel chips in 2013-2014.
MS must have a viable MS Office tablet offering in 2012.
As to Apple's reasons -- consider it an investment in "non-voting shares of MSFT" -- to the benefit of the future of Apple and users in general.
Maybe because iWork already does what 95% of its target users want it to do. I don't think APple has illusions that the enterprise is going to start replacing Office with the iWork suite. Pages, Numbers, and Keynote each cost $20. I don't think they'd benefit from too much feature bloat and complexity. I use pages and keynote quite consistently, and honestly I never felt like anything major was missing compared to the MS counterparts. Quite the opposite- pages is so much better and more useable from a design layout perspective, and in my experience keynote is just plain better than PPT for making gorgeous looking presentations with smooth and professional effects with very little effort. Can't really comment on numbers, as I use it for basic tasks and never attempted to do anything overly complex with it as far as spreadsheets go- and I assume 98% of consumers wouldn't need to either. The corporate market is another matter, but again, Apple has no illusions about being a large player there.
iWork for the desktop is awesome, especially for small businesses. With Pages, you have a decent word processor that also doubles as "Publisher-esque" app; you can create professional looking flyers, newsletters, etc. very very easily. As long as you don't have to do complex calculations, Numbers is likewise great for small businesses. The UI is better, and it "just does what you want" much better than Excel.
That said, iWork for iOS is barely usable as it stands.
I wonder how sandboxing works with MS Office and iWork apps. Will iWorks still be able to open Office docs? Apple's strict regulation of certain aspects of apps might get a little complicated.
We have yet to see how they are going to handle the upgrades to iWork apps. Are they going to be free like they said, or are they going to break the rules and charge for them? Will docs created in one app be accessible to another app? They are not supposed to be.
This is an illogical statement. such a setup would quite clearly *not* "offer all the protection that consumers currently enjoy."
I'm not saying I don't agree with the concept of "side loading" content (although personally I'm ambivalent never having seen anything on offer outside of the store that's worth getting), but whether or not it's done, to argue that the consumer isn't going to be somewhat less protected in such an environment is clearly incorrect.
your argument is semantic, but it is nevertheless fair.
Allow me to retract and restate:
Consumers who choose to use the App Store will continue to have all the protections that they currently enjoy.
That was my first thought, acquiescence. Not holding back their crown jewels for their own tablet is either that or amazing faith in what hardware they have coming one day.
They may be letting Apple have 1st place, but by not releasing an Android version I suspect they are at least trying to preserve themselves 2nd place once a Windows tablet is released and has to start battling against Google/Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53
I understand some of the comments were written with a bit of sarcasm but why do people feel we have to go back to business as usual by getting any software from Microsoft? What part of "Think Different" don't people get? Apple put out a good computer in a tablet form factor, why does that mean you have to immediately put all your old garbage on it? Isn't it time to look for something better or are we so entrenched in an archaic word processing program that we can't let loose of our comfortable "pencil?"
On an individual level, that's easy to say. But if you are a business where 100s, 1000s, or even 10s of 1000s of employees, some who are still not all that computer savy, need to be able to exhange files in a drop-dead simple, 100% file compatibility way, then Office is really the only alternative. For better or worse, Office products are so entrenched in a buinsesses process and technology that you can't just swap it out for something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberzombie
Another means of wresting some data from the iCloud into their own? Given the size of MSO documents and synchronization with other non-iPad business users, they could make up more than enough revenue via extra SkyDrive space.
In additiona to SkyDrive, I wouldn't be surprised to see a strong tie into a MS server product. Business would be very reluctant to have their information in the cloud. So either a standalone server product, intergration with Exchange, or strong ties to Sharepoint, to allow business to maintain control of their data. This is something that Apple has no interest it which will give MS a leg up in business.
Comments
I think that MS will target 2 iPad audiences:
1) The enterprise pro who needs to share/collaborate and use SkyDrive for a fee.
2) The home user that needs MS compatibility who will use iCloud.
The same programs can use either iCloud or SkyDrive -- just a matter of what you need and are willing to pay..
...That's how I would do it.
There is definite value to enterprise to have office apps on the iPad with the imprimatur of Microsoft...
...This imprimatur may be of greater importance than the cost of the apps or how well they are implemented.
I agree this is the best methodology, I'm just not sure that they will be able to do it on the first version and was thinking they might have to choose between SkyDrive and iCloud but I am no programmer so I don't really know.
Awesome. I just want Excel. Nothing more. But sounds like MS can't loose on this move.
From the screenshot, it doesn't look like you get to have that. Looks like you have to buy an app with all three inside.
... IMO, the best setup would be an App Store for those who want to use it due to all the benefits it offers, combined with the ability to buy software elsewhere as well.
Such a system would offer all the protection that consumers currently enjoy, but would also give them added benefits. It would not, however, be as profitable for Apple, so it will never happen.
This is an illogical statement. such a setup would quite clearly *not* "offer all the protection that consumers currently enjoy."
I'm not saying I don't agree with the concept of "side loading" content (although personally I'm ambivalent never having seen anything on offer outside of the store that's worth getting), but whether or not it's done, to argue that the consumer isn't going to be somewhat less protected in such an environment is clearly incorrect.
What I don't understand is why there seems to be almost no movement in general on creating HTML apps. With the data connection speeds we enjoy, there should be almost no difference in speed and utility between a properly designed web app and a native iOS app. I would have thought that we would be flooded with web apps by now considering the infrastructure for them was put in place before the app store even existed and considering the rampant censorship on the app store.
It seems to me that anyone who gets their app rejected from the app store should just re-write it in HTML 5 and javascript. If the action of the app is identical to the end user I don't see the issue with doing apps this way.
From the screenshot, it doesn't look like you get to have that. Looks like you have to buy an app with all three inside.
Ack!
I didn't notice that.
If it's an integrated Office environment that's a non-starter for people like me.
Also probably means:
- high price ($100?)
- overly complicated interface
- aimed only at business users
Also probably means:
- high price ($100?)
- overly complicated interface
- aimed only at business users
And slow? TALK about slow. Huge file size, minute-long startup time?
I agree this is the best methodology, I'm just not sure that they will be able to do it on the first version and was thinking they might have to choose between SkyDrive and iCloud but I am no programmer so I don't really know.
I think the real heft will be in the cloud servers and how they integrate with all your computers and mobile devices.
I suspect that the MS cloud offering will be richer, especially in the area of file sharing/management, than the Apple cloud offering -- for the next year or so.
I do like Apple's own office software, and for stuff at home I use it exclusively, but the unfortunate truth is that Office is still dominate in the work world and being able to deal with Office files easily - without a lot of spotty converting - is the one hurdle to ditching my travel laptop for my iPad.
Docs to Go and other solutions are decent, but have various compatibility issues. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what Microsoft puts out. With their newfound focus on UI design, I'm sort of expecting something good looking, easy to use and hopefully full-featured.
Smart move for MS too - even if they get tablets out the door, and even if those tablets rock, people aren't going to just abandon their iPads for Windows tablets. MS has the programmers to support both platforms, no sense in leaving money on the table...
Outlook!
Why should Microsoft give Apple 30% of the selling price?
Oh, that's right. iPads will only run software bought direct from Apple. Never mind.
Are you making some kind of point or jab? The appstore has proven to be an insanely successful model for all 3 parties- Apple, developers, and especially consumers. Noone gives a shit it isn't open apart from basement dwelling geeks who are irrelevant in terms of the general market.
Also, please explain to me how one downloads apps on a Windows Phone, because I'm assuming the process is so different? Thanks.
I'm not "happy" to see it as Microsoft is extremely adept at turning silk purses into sow's ears. I'm sure there will be many stupid UI choices, lots of glitches, it will likely be horrifically ugly and lock you in to one of their stupid services. It will also no doubt be aimed at their core market of business users instead of the average consumers that make up the majority of the platform adoptees.
I do agree about the competition though.
iWork has been almost completely stagnant for over two years now. The updates we have seen have been minimal and "required" in the sense that they have only added some functionality when it was made necessary by underlying OS changes. There really couldn't be a better example of the need for some competition in this area.
Apple has done that thing with iWork that they typically do with software which is make a new product that's all flashy and shiny so everyone switches to it, then do absolutely nothing to it for years either because they never really planned on doing updates or because the guy that wrote the first version went on a ski trip or moved to a different project or something.
iWork is iChat redux.
Maybe because iWork already does what 95% of its target users want it to do. I don't think APple has illusions that the enterprise is going to start replacing Office with the iWork suite. Pages, Numbers, and Keynote each cost $20. I don't think they'd benefit from too much feature bloat and complexity. I use pages and keynote quite consistently, and honestly I never felt like anything major was missing compared to the MS counterparts. Quite the opposite- pages is so much better and more useable from a design layout perspective, and in my experience keynote is just plain better than PPT for making gorgeous looking presentations with smooth and professional effects with very little effort. Can't really comment on numbers, as I use it for basic tasks and never attempted to do anything overly complex with it as far as spreadsheets go- and I assume 98% of consumers wouldn't need to either. The corporate market is another matter, but again, Apple has no illusions about being a large player there.
I understand some of the comments were written with a bit of sarcasm but why do people feel we have to go back to business as usual by getting any software from Microsoft? What part of "Think Different" don't people get? Apple put out a good computer in a tablet form factor, why does that mean you have to immediately put all your old garbage on it? Isn't it time to look for something better or are we so entrenched in an archaic word processing program that we can't let loose of our comfortable "pencil?" I read schools aren't teaching cursive anymore not because it isn't a reasonable way to convey information (Windows Office products) but because the method of information sharing has changed. We're past the Microsoft Office days, let go of that disastrous product and move on.
Numbers for the iPad frustrates me, and Pages isn't exactly the greatest thing since sliced bread.
This from an avid user of iWork on the desktop.
Apple released the first iWork 7 years ago. How is it that it hasn't caught up with being a real competitor to MS Office for business users in that time? Also, how is that Apple can now update OS X every year but can't update iWork and iLife every year?
You know the answer to that... you don't go dancing with the 800 lb gorilla -- unless you get to pick the music
There is a whole lotta' stuff going on here... financial, legal, strategic, political, logistical...
Throughout their mutual history, whenever Apple and MS played "nice-nice" you could bet that there was a lot going on behind the scene.
I bet that MS realizes that the only realistic offerings of WOA will be from Nokia (a non-starter) -- and, therefore, their participation in the tablet marketplace depends on low-power Intel chips in 2013-2014.
MS must have a viable MS Office tablet offering in 2012.
As to Apple's reasons -- consider it an investment in "non-voting shares of MSFT" -- to the benefit of the future of Apple and users in general.
Too bad... Google really stepped in it!
Maybe because iWork already does what 95% of its target users want it to do. I don't think APple has illusions that the enterprise is going to start replacing Office with the iWork suite. Pages, Numbers, and Keynote each cost $20. I don't think they'd benefit from too much feature bloat and complexity. I use pages and keynote quite consistently, and honestly I never felt like anything major was missing compared to the MS counterparts. Quite the opposite- pages is so much better and more useable from a design layout perspective, and in my experience keynote is just plain better than PPT for making gorgeous looking presentations with smooth and professional effects with very little effort. Can't really comment on numbers, as I use it for basic tasks and never attempted to do anything overly complex with it as far as spreadsheets go- and I assume 98% of consumers wouldn't need to either. The corporate market is another matter, but again, Apple has no illusions about being a large player there.
iWork for the desktop is awesome, especially for small businesses. With Pages, you have a decent word processor that also doubles as "Publisher-esque" app; you can create professional looking flyers, newsletters, etc. very very easily. As long as you don't have to do complex calculations, Numbers is likewise great for small businesses. The UI is better, and it "just does what you want" much better than Excel.
That said, iWork for iOS is barely usable as it stands.
We have yet to see how they are going to handle the upgrades to iWork apps. Are they going to be free like they said, or are they going to break the rules and charge for them? Will docs created in one app be accessible to another app? They are not supposed to be.
This is an illogical statement. such a setup would quite clearly *not* "offer all the protection that consumers currently enjoy."
I'm not saying I don't agree with the concept of "side loading" content (although personally I'm ambivalent never having seen anything on offer outside of the store that's worth getting), but whether or not it's done, to argue that the consumer isn't going to be somewhat less protected in such an environment is clearly incorrect.
your argument is semantic, but it is nevertheless fair.
Allow me to retract and restate:
Consumers who choose to use the App Store will continue to have all the protections that they currently enjoy.
That was my first thought, acquiescence. Not holding back their crown jewels for their own tablet is either that or amazing faith in what hardware they have coming one day.
They may be letting Apple have 1st place, but by not releasing an Android version I suspect they are at least trying to preserve themselves 2nd place once a Windows tablet is released and has to start battling against Google/Android.
I understand some of the comments were written with a bit of sarcasm but why do people feel we have to go back to business as usual by getting any software from Microsoft? What part of "Think Different" don't people get? Apple put out a good computer in a tablet form factor, why does that mean you have to immediately put all your old garbage on it? Isn't it time to look for something better or are we so entrenched in an archaic word processing program that we can't let loose of our comfortable "pencil?"
On an individual level, that's easy to say. But if you are a business where 100s, 1000s, or even 10s of 1000s of employees, some who are still not all that computer savy, need to be able to exhange files in a drop-dead simple, 100% file compatibility way, then Office is really the only alternative. For better or worse, Office products are so entrenched in a buinsesses process and technology that you can't just swap it out for something else.
Another means of wresting some data from the iCloud into their own? Given the size of MSO documents and synchronization with other non-iPad business users, they could make up more than enough revenue via extra SkyDrive space.
In additiona to SkyDrive, I wouldn't be surprised to see a strong tie into a MS server product. Business would be very reluctant to have their information in the cloud. So either a standalone server product, intergration with Exchange, or strong ties to Sharepoint, to allow business to maintain control of their data. This is something that Apple has no interest it which will give MS a leg up in business.
Also, please explain to me how one downloads apps on a Windows Phone, because I'm assuming the process is so different? Thanks.
You assume incorrectly. Windows phones are also restricted to a single software vendor.