Many people here know about MrNSX from Ars Technica forums, and some of the stuff he's said in the past over there. For those who don't know, he works for ATI, 'nuff said.
This is what he said in a reply to a thread titled "estimation of real G5 benefits? MrNSX?" in October 13, 2001:
<strong> "Well there's multiple new CPU's in the works from both Motorola and IBM. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of in-depth details on most of these designs, and what information I do know, I can't share due to NDA. Suffice to say that pipelines are being lengthened and code will need to be recompiled to take full advantage of the new CPU's. HOWEVER, existing code will also run better due to having more instructions in-flight and less dispatch/resource restrictions. Sorry for being necessarily vague." </strong>
Even people who say there is no G5, all there will ever be is a G4 Apollo
know that the Apollo is supposed to just be a G4+ built with SOI and thus able to be clocked higher. It shouldn't have an entirely redesigned pipeline, or need recompiling of applications to take advantage of its features. We're talking about new chips here.
As far as I know, MrNSX develops drivers for Macintosh products at ATI. This means that he would have nothing to do with an embedded PPC G5 that Motorola is developing.
<strong>OK, let's talk about some more facts then.
As far as I know, MrNSX develops drivers for Macintosh products at ATI. This means that he would have nothing to do with an embedded PPC G5 that Motorola is developing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
MrNSX also get's prerelease machines to work worth. Having said, that he is not one to spill the beans, other than "good things are coming."
Regardless of whatever MrNSX or whoever else wants to believe ATI is so close to being completely out of the Apple picture and it's their own doing. For years their drivers sucked and then when nVidia enters the picture it lights a fire under all of their asses and they start writing drivers, and then they issue a press release a week before a MacWorld show including the products Jobs plans on releasing?!?!? As soon as nVidia makes a mobile chip that will not drain the battery in 15 minutes you can bet your ass that ATI is out the door.
Regardless of whatever MrNSX or whoever else wants to believe ATI is so close to being completely out of the Apple picture and it's their own doing. For years their drivers sucked and then when nVidia enters the picture it lights a fire under all of their asses and they start writing drivers, and then they issue a press release a week before a MacWorld show including the products Jobs plans on releasing?!?!? As soon as nVidia makes a mobile chip that will not drain the battery in 15 minutes you can bet your ass that ATI is out the door.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is completely irrelevant. What matters is that here we have some info from the mouth of someone who definitely has access to pre-release hardware and he's saying the chips aren't just Apollo's, ie 7450's built on a new process. He's saying they have different pipelines, and will require recompiling to fully utilise their potential. This means he's talking about a new core. How much more proof do people need that there are other things out there than the MPC 7460?
<strong>Just a minute this is an ad for Future processors.
It tells us nothing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It tells us a lot. It's yet another reference to a processor some people claim doesn't exist.
In fact, some people have really short attention spans and bad long-term memory it seems. Here's a <a href="http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2336967,00.html"; target="_blank">ZdNet article</a> from all the way back in 1999 when the G4 was fresh off the silicon plant. It's talking about the 64 bit G5 that's supposed to compete with Intel's Merced. People act like all this stuff about about the G5 was just rumors from MOSR, when this is not a new story in any way.
Use some common sense. Since the G4 came out in 1999. AMD came out with the Athlon, and this year they're about to launch their 64 bit Hammer series. They've had enough time to design an extension to the X86 ISA, whereas the PPC ISA already supports 64 bits and does not need to be redesigned or extended. It is absolutely ridiculous to assume that all Motorola's PPC design team was able to do in 3 years was slightly modify the MPC 7400 core to create 7450 and then add SOI to that to make the 7460 (Apollo). They must be eating a lot of donuts and taking a lot of coffee breaks I guess.
One thing that nobody's pointed out yet is the DATE on the ARTICLE that timortis posted above... although that the page was made sometime last year ( I think that someone said that it was 11/01) The date that he says that the G4/G5 project that he was working on finishes is 2/02... hmmmm.... that oh! NEXT MONTH! ~The same dates that were looking at for the update to the PowerMac line... I think that that's pretty revealing in itself.
I suggest you read that again -- he said that he worked on it until Feb 2000, and since then he's been in the IBM PPC44x group working on embedded processors.
I must admit this is one of the more compelling arguments I've seen in this forum over the last couple years. At least there is some form of evidence on both sides and people seem to be trying to put two and two together. I honestly don't know what to believe but it makes perfect sense to me that even if the G5 isn't about to be released, that information about prototypes and job postings specific to the new architecture will be seen before the release. Hence, seeind job ads != a near-term release. Not necessarily.
We simply don't know how many of these ads are placed by companies that are late to the game (which would favor a sooner release) vs. those who are getting an early jump on things (which would favor a later release). All it tells us really is what we already know - there are some companies out there that have working prototypes. That's still a little vague to use it as a basis for statements of imminent release of a product....
One thing I'm wondering though...does Apple have the legal right to bar 3rd party partners from using the terms "G5" or "PPC 8xxx" or other similar terms that would could tip people off about future power macs? In other words, can Apple say "you cannot divulge the existence of this processor, either directly or by implication, whether you're hiring engineers for it or not"?
Further, if these companies are looking for people with G5 expertise, where in the hell would these people come from...Motorola? Surely there aren't any publcations which detail the spec at a low leve, so how could anyone hope to find experts on said spec?
Kind of a chicken and egg thing. Sometimes I wonder if some of these companies aren't just yanking our chains. I think someone should actually send in an e-mail and pretend to apply for that compiler job or one of other others, and see what response they get.
I'm gonna play a game that Apple played when rumors of the G4 chip came to a head.
"Apple will be shipping G5 based systems in 2003"
Anyone remember when Apple used that line (using G4 instead of G5)? I think it was the Summer before the G4 intro. Anyway people on the message boards were SO upset... I kept telling them that the statement didn't mean a dern thing since Apple *could* release a G4 based system this year and the statement that was made would still be true... Nobody would listen and the bitching moaning and complaining continued.. Fall of that year the G4 was released.
So anyway, my prediction stands and I know that I'm gonna be right!
<strong>i am cutting brushed aluminum cases now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Was this meant to be one of those "hey , if I make a cryptic statement, will you buy into the idea that I might have insider information" comments...or are you perhaps trying to tell us that Apple is redesigning the pro case to have the QT / iTunes / iPhoto look? Either way I'm inclined to think you're full of poop.
Was this meant to be one of those "hey , if I make a cryptic statement, will you buy into the idea that I might have insider information" comments...or are you perhaps trying to tell us that Apple is redesigning the pro case to have the QT / iTunes / iPhoto look? Either way I'm inclined to think you're full of poop.
Comments
Many people here know about MrNSX from Ars Technica forums, and some of the stuff he's said in the past over there. For those who don't know, he works for ATI, 'nuff said.
This is what he said in a reply to a thread titled "estimation of real G5 benefits? MrNSX?" in October 13, 2001:
<strong> "Well there's multiple new CPU's in the works from both Motorola and IBM. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of in-depth details on most of these designs, and what information I do know, I can't share due to NDA. Suffice to say that pipelines are being lengthened and code will need to be recompiled to take full advantage of the new CPU's. HOWEVER, existing code will also run better due to having more instructions in-flight and less dispatch/resource restrictions. Sorry for being necessarily vague." </strong>
Even people who say there is no G5, all there will ever be is a G4 Apollo
know that the Apollo is supposed to just be a G4+ built with SOI and thus able to be clocked higher. It shouldn't have an entirely redesigned pipeline, or need recompiling of applications to take advantage of its features. We're talking about new chips here.
As far as I know, MrNSX develops drivers for Macintosh products at ATI. This means that he would have nothing to do with an embedded PPC G5 that Motorola is developing.
<strong>OK, let's talk about some more facts then.
As far as I know, MrNSX develops drivers for Macintosh products at ATI. This means that he would have nothing to do with an embedded PPC G5 that Motorola is developing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
MrNSX also get's prerelease machines to work worth. Having said, that he is not one to spill the beans, other than "good things are coming."
Regardless of whatever MrNSX or whoever else wants to believe ATI is so close to being completely out of the Apple picture and it's their own doing. For years their drivers sucked and then when nVidia enters the picture it lights a fire under all of their asses and they start writing drivers, and then they issue a press release a week before a MacWorld show including the products Jobs plans on releasing?!?!? As soon as nVidia makes a mobile chip that will not drain the battery in 15 minutes you can bet your ass that ATI is out the door.
<strong>News Flash
Regardless of whatever MrNSX or whoever else wants to believe ATI is so close to being completely out of the Apple picture and it's their own doing. For years their drivers sucked and then when nVidia enters the picture it lights a fire under all of their asses and they start writing drivers, and then they issue a press release a week before a MacWorld show including the products Jobs plans on releasing?!?!? As soon as nVidia makes a mobile chip that will not drain the battery in 15 minutes you can bet your ass that ATI is out the door.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is completely irrelevant. What matters is that here we have some info from the mouth of someone who definitely has access to pre-release hardware and he's saying the chips aren't just Apollo's, ie 7450's built on a new process. He's saying they have different pipelines, and will require recompiling to fully utilise their potential. This means he's talking about a new core. How much more proof do people need that there are other things out there than the MPC 7460?
It tells us nothing.
<strong>Just a minute this is an ad for Future processors.
It tells us nothing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It tells us a lot. It's yet another reference to a processor some people claim doesn't exist.
In fact, some people have really short attention spans and bad long-term memory it seems. Here's a <a href="http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2336967,00.html"; target="_blank">ZdNet article</a> from all the way back in 1999 when the G4 was fresh off the silicon plant. It's talking about the 64 bit G5 that's supposed to compete with Intel's Merced. People act like all this stuff about about the G5 was just rumors from MOSR, when this is not a new story in any way.
Use some common sense. Since the G4 came out in 1999. AMD came out with the Athlon, and this year they're about to launch their 64 bit Hammer series. They've had enough time to design an extension to the X86 ISA, whereas the PPC ISA already supports 64 bits and does not need to be redesigned or extended. It is absolutely ridiculous to assume that all Motorola's PPC design team was able to do in 3 years was slightly modify the MPC 7400 core to create 7450 and then add SOI to that to make the 7460 (Apollo). They must be eating a lot of donuts and taking a lot of coffee breaks I guess.
<strong>
I'd say there's overwhelming evidence that the G5 has been in development for a very long time.
<a href="http://www.amir.com/amir/vita.html"; target="_blank">http://www.amir.com/amir/vita.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>;
One thing that nobody's pointed out yet is the DATE on the ARTICLE that timortis posted above... although that the page was made sometime last year ( I think that someone said that it was 11/01) The date that he says that the G4/G5 project that he was working on finishes is 2/02... hmmmm.... that oh! NEXT MONTH! ~The same dates that were looking at for the update to the PowerMac line... I think that that's pretty revealing in itself.
Personally, I'm betting on very late 2002 or early 2003. Hope I'm wrong, but well that's my uninfomed and outsider info.
We simply don't know how many of these ads are placed by companies that are late to the game (which would favor a sooner release) vs. those who are getting an early jump on things (which would favor a later release). All it tells us really is what we already know - there are some companies out there that have working prototypes. That's still a little vague to use it as a basis for statements of imminent release of a product....
One thing I'm wondering though...does Apple have the legal right to bar 3rd party partners from using the terms "G5" or "PPC 8xxx" or other similar terms that would could tip people off about future power macs? In other words, can Apple say "you cannot divulge the existence of this processor, either directly or by implication, whether you're hiring engineers for it or not"?
Further, if these companies are looking for people with G5 expertise, where in the hell would these people come from...Motorola? Surely there aren't any publcations which detail the spec at a low leve, so how could anyone hope to find experts on said spec?
Kind of a chicken and egg thing. Sometimes I wonder if some of these companies aren't just yanking our chains. I think someone should actually send in an e-mail and pretend to apply for that compiler job or one of other others, and see what response they get.
"Apple will be shipping G5 based systems in 2003"
Anyone remember when Apple used that line (using G4 instead of G5)? I think it was the Summer before the G4 intro. Anyway people on the message boards were SO upset... I kept telling them that the statement didn't mean a dern thing since Apple *could* release a G4 based system this year and the statement that was made would still be true... Nobody would listen and the bitching moaning and complaining continued.. Fall of that year the G4 was released.
So anyway, my prediction stands and I know that I'm gonna be right!
Dave "wishing for a G5 betting on a G4+" Gee
[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: kim kap sol ]</p>
Gee, it looks like you are getting kind of beat up on this thread. As Mr. Spock would say : " Why not yield to the logic of the situation? "
<strong>i am cutting brushed aluminum cases now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Was this meant to be one of those "hey , if I make a cryptic statement, will you buy into the idea that I might have insider information" comments...or are you perhaps trying to tell us that Apple is redesigning the pro case to have the QT / iTunes / iPhoto look? Either way I'm inclined to think you're full of poop.
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]</p>
<strong>
Was this meant to be one of those "hey , if I make a cryptic statement, will you buy into the idea that I might have insider information" comments...or are you perhaps trying to tell us that Apple is redesigning the pro case to have the QT / iTunes / iPhoto look? Either way I'm inclined to think you're full of poop.
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a riff on the old "I am making plastics now!" joke of his that has a long and... long history here at AI.