"If we can't do something that is better, we won't do it."- Jony Ive
But define 'better.'
There is a market for low-end products because there are some folks who can't afford Apple prices. So they may buy a $200 Kindle Fire. That, for them, is the definition of 'better.'
There's a guy here at work who I've seen polishing his iPhone 4 with a microfiber cloth. He loves his schanzzy iPhone, and treats it gingerly.
But there is also the low-income parent who will give a simple Kindle Fire to their kids, who will abuse it.
hmm, well with iOS they should try to get it at least to "good"
but hey they making money... I see it like a nice restaurant you always went to that one day puts hotdogs on the MENU - you just ignore the stupid people who order it.
I think it's more like people who make general assertions but don't use any specificity as to the "problem" nor point out any comparative solutions or products which "do it better".
iOS happens to be a terrific mobile OS, and is arguably the best one available. Of course, most people focus on the UI layer to decide on the OS quality so the comparison of Springboard to others (like Metro on Windows Phone) is really what you are probably talking about...and I agree on that level that Springboard is getting a bit long in the tooth. iOS itself, however, is terrific. It's *nix under the hood, uses the Mach kernel, and Cocoa Touch alone makes it superior to everything else out there. Add the power management and background tasking controls, and it puts iOS over the top.
Ive has been completely absent from any recent Apple events, as well as any product videos. He hasn't made ANY official company statements in recent history.
I'd like to see one post of yours on this forum that isn't completely full of shit. Maybe one day, but I doubt it. You also continue to show your depravity by insulting the physical appearance of others.
Oops, yer right. I take back what I said about him looking like L. Ron. Anyway, nice call-out.
But he does lard-in some bland positive posts once in a while to cover his trolling. Part of the problem. He's being paid and thus would never reform for real.
About Ive as a spokesman of any kind, he speaks the language of art, not business, so he's best at conveying the mysteries behind the process of good design. Someone at MacRumors was saying he should front for Apple at presentations. How can people be so blind and perverse?
Tim Cook is the very essence of thought and reason and competence.
There is a market for low-end products because there are some folks who can't afford Apple prices. So they may buy a $200 Kindle Fire. That, for them, is the definition of 'better.'
There's a guy here at work who I've seen polishing his iPhone 4 with a microfiber cloth. He loves his schanzzy iPhone, and treats it gingerly.
But there is also the low-income parent who will give a simple Kindle Fire to their kids, who will abuse it.
That's not the definition of "better". That's the definition of "affordable".
Saying Tim is ugly is harsh, especially since I would guess you're probably no oil painting, but he is (in my opinion) a bit dull when it comes to the product launches.
He has a tremendously calming voice, which I'm sure is a great asset in difficult meetings etc. but it doesn't lend itself to creating any "wow" factor like Steve Jobs could.
I'll accept that. Likely your description is better.
The samsungs connector actually is the better one as it has a ridge to get better grip on it...
I would tend to agree, but Ive/Jobs probably rejected this obvious detail as too easily angled up or down on pulling out. It's a fragile interface, that 30-pin slot.
There is a market for low-end products because there are some folks who can't afford Apple prices. So they may buy a $200 Kindle Fire. That, for them, is the definition of 'better.'
There's a guy here at work who I've seen polishing his iPhone 4 with a microfiber cloth. He loves his schanzzy iPhone, and treats it gingerly.
But there is also the low-income parent who will give a simple Kindle Fire to their kids, who will abuse it.
Whats your point? He's aware there's a market. And he specifically stated thats irrelevant. There's also $70 tablets. Why stop at $200? Apple has a certain bare minmum quality in tis philosophy. It's not going to randomly target $200 it it doesn't think it can make a compelling product that's in line with what it stands for at that price.
Seeing how their idea of "better" is as basic as the 4S upgrade, that's not really saying much.
So says the person who probably has never used the 4S ... and maybe also never used the 4 that is being compared.
The 4S is quite a significant upgrade. Faster CPU and graphics, HSPA+, integrated noise canceling circuitry, much better camera, BT 4.0, and redesigned antenna. On the software side, there's Siri, 1080p video recording, and real time video stabilization.
Of course, you and your ilk aren't forced to pre-define what a "real" upgrade is so you can just repeat the now age-old "it's just a minor upgrade" every time Apple releases the next iteration. In the words of John Gruber, what would it take? "A fusion energy source? Teleportation? A camera that sees into the future?"
The samsungs connector actually is the better one as it has a ridge to get better grip on it...
Oh yea the standard 30pin or PDMI that almost every manufacture now uses. I have one on my Asus Slider. Yes Apple has their own but so does everyone else.
Apple will do whatever it thinks will increase total profits.
That's not how Apple makes decisions at all. The profits are assumed to come AFTER making a great product. Profits are not the decision driver in designing the products. There is so much evidence of this in Apple's history that has been well documented, it's now silly to even suggest otherwise.
But you better be in lock-step with Apple on THEIR definition of 'better.' Resistance is futile...
Apple is trying to dictate the market. Which is exactly why Apple threw the hammer at IBM in 1984.
(Kinda like the old saying, "When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.")
I actually think this is just a good example of Apple really understanding the market they want to go after. They understand the socio-economic market they want, and don't really go outside of that.
Affordable is a vague term the same as better is. To me, the iPad is incredibly affordable - I'm in the fortunate position that $830 is nothing to me. If all I could afford on a tablet was $200, the Amazon Kindle is more affordable, and hence much better for that person.
Apple directly target the market of people like me, and leave other segments of the market alone. I like that model, as opposed to Android, which is trying to target all segments of the market, and ends up often being a lowest common denominator platform.
But you better be in lock-step with Apple on THEIR definition of 'better.' Resistance is futile...
Apple is trying to dictate the market. Which is exactly why Apple threw the hammer at IBM in 1984.
(Kinda like the old saying, "When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.")
You're erroneously comparing a "better" price point with a "better" quality product. Of course we go for the better price if all other things are equal but that certainly isn't the case between the Kindle and iPad. Then there are aspects that are better AND worse at the same time. iPad's 10" display is better because it's larger but worse because it's larger, depending on you expect it to fit into your life.
That's not how Apple makes decisions at all. The profits are assumed to come AFTER making a great product. Profits are not the decision driver in designing the products. There is so much evidence of this in Apple's history that has been well documented, it's now silly to even suggest otherwise.
It's Zither, what do you expect. His posts are not based on a shred of truth. Apple could be doing so much more if it simply was concerned about profits and marketshare.
Remove the branding, and I dare you to discern a Toyota Camry from a Honda Accord or a Hyundai Sonata. They all flipping look the same, but you don't see car manufacturers suing each other, do you?
"What? You mean their car has 4 tires, a steering wheel, and voice activated features TOO?! Get legal on the phone, NOW!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
What a ridiculous, ridiculous analogy. The similarity of those 2 phones is analogous that cars have tires and wheels? How many phones looked like that before the iPhone? Let's discern the similarities in that pic:
- Almost identical shape
- identical number and arrangement of icons (4x4 grid)
- identical concept of a dock
- same gray dock background
- black background
- same concept of dots to symbolize # of screens
- eerily similar icons. ie why did the phone icon need to havr the same green background color, the same handset shape and angle, etc. There's an infinite # of ways to design it.
There wasn't a single phone that looked anywhere near this before the iPhone, never mind the numerous amounts of small and large details that are shamelessly identical, and which could have easily been done countless other ways. An equivalent analogy to your car example would be 'phones have a screen, have a speaker, earpiece, and make calls'. Extending it to include the countless specific similarities in that photo is idiotic. Car manufacturers have been pretty good at making unique designs. That comment of yours seems like a shameless troll, because you can't possibly believe what you said.
On the other hand, if the similarities between the two phones seems as similar as 3 vehicles having tires, then I would suggest that cash907 is ill-qualified to make judgments on Design, especially one where Ive is the theme
Apple sets out to make what they believe are "great products" and the success of their visions are the results of the sales. If people like it, they'll buy it and if they don't, they won't. Do the Apple haters really believe that we're all brainwashed into buying an Apple product? How ridiculous is that?
Where were the tablets? Where were the ultrabooks? Where were the multi-touch smartphones? Sure, the competition is catching up but as long as Apple continues to be first to market, they'll do just fine. The rest can continue to make "me too" products, which is exactly what they've been doing for the last decade.
The overall Apple experience is what creates repeat customers and this is where Apple excels. Anyone who puts down an Apple customer and call them brainwashed is just plain ignorant. If they're happy with whatever phone, tablet, or operating system they're using, then be happy with it, period. Personally, I'm happy with what I use and don't care one bit what anyone else uses. The haters should think about that before hating.
That's not how Apple makes decisions at all. The profits are assumed to come AFTER making a great product. Profits are not the decision driver in designing the products. There is so much evidence of this in Apple's history that has been well documented, it's now silly to even suggest otherwise.
Thank you, well said. ZZZ used to bring that one up regularly when he was ConradJoe. He knows it pisses people off when he sells Apple's motives short. We could change "silly" to "deliberately perverse." He's a fake!
Comments
"If we can't do something that is better, we won't do it."- Jony Ive
But define 'better.'
There is a market for low-end products because there are some folks who can't afford Apple prices. So they may buy a $200 Kindle Fire. That, for them, is the definition of 'better.'
There's a guy here at work who I've seen polishing his iPhone 4 with a microfiber cloth. He loves his schanzzy iPhone, and treats it gingerly.
But there is also the low-income parent who will give a simple Kindle Fire to their kids, who will abuse it.
Well here's a detail you've overlooked.
Isn't it funny that of all the tablet manufacturers, Samsung is the one with a cable that looks very similar to Apple's?
The samsungs connector actually is the better one as it has a ridge to get better grip on it...
hmm, well with iOS they should try to get it at least to "good"
but hey they making money... I see it like a nice restaurant you always went to that one day puts hotdogs on the MENU - you just ignore the stupid people who order it.
I think it's more like people who make general assertions but don't use any specificity as to the "problem" nor point out any comparative solutions or products which "do it better".
iOS happens to be a terrific mobile OS, and is arguably the best one available. Of course, most people focus on the UI layer to decide on the OS quality so the comparison of Springboard to others (like Metro on Windows Phone) is really what you are probably talking about...and I agree on that level that Springboard is getting a bit long in the tooth. iOS itself, however, is terrific. It's *nix under the hood, uses the Mach kernel, and Cocoa Touch alone makes it superior to everything else out there. Add the power management and background tasking controls, and it puts iOS over the top.
Ive has been completely absent from any recent Apple events, as well as any product videos. He hasn't made ANY official company statements in recent history.
I'd like to see one post of yours on this forum that isn't completely full of shit. Maybe one day, but I doubt it. You also continue to show your depravity by insulting the physical appearance of others.
Oops, yer right. I take back what I said about him looking like L. Ron. Anyway, nice call-out.
But he does lard-in some bland positive posts once in a while to cover his trolling. Part of the problem. He's being paid and thus would never reform for real.
About Ive as a spokesman of any kind, he speaks the language of art, not business, so he's best at conveying the mysteries behind the process of good design. Someone at MacRumors was saying he should front for Apple at presentations. How can people be so blind and perverse?
Tim Cook is the very essence of thought and reason and competence.
But define 'better.'
There is a market for low-end products because there are some folks who can't afford Apple prices. So they may buy a $200 Kindle Fire. That, for them, is the definition of 'better.'
There's a guy here at work who I've seen polishing his iPhone 4 with a microfiber cloth. He loves his schanzzy iPhone, and treats it gingerly.
But there is also the low-income parent who will give a simple Kindle Fire to their kids, who will abuse it.
That's not the definition of "better". That's the definition of "affordable".
Saying Tim is ugly is harsh, especially since I would guess you're probably no oil painting, but he is (in my opinion) a bit dull when it comes to the product launches.
He has a tremendously calming voice, which I'm sure is a great asset in difficult meetings etc. but it doesn't lend itself to creating any "wow" factor like Steve Jobs could.
I'll accept that. Likely your description is better.
The samsungs connector actually is the better one as it has a ridge to get better grip on it...
I would tend to agree, but Ive/Jobs probably rejected this obvious detail as too easily angled up or down on pulling out. It's a fragile interface, that 30-pin slot.
But define 'better.'
There is a market for low-end products because there are some folks who can't afford Apple prices. So they may buy a $200 Kindle Fire. That, for them, is the definition of 'better.'
There's a guy here at work who I've seen polishing his iPhone 4 with a microfiber cloth. He loves his schanzzy iPhone, and treats it gingerly.
But there is also the low-income parent who will give a simple Kindle Fire to their kids, who will abuse it.
Whats your point? He's aware there's a market. And he specifically stated thats irrelevant. There's also $70 tablets. Why stop at $200? Apple has a certain bare minmum quality in tis philosophy. It's not going to randomly target $200 it it doesn't think it can make a compelling product that's in line with what it stands for at that price.
Seeing how their idea of "better" is as basic as the 4S upgrade, that's not really saying much.
So says the person who probably has never used the 4S ... and maybe also never used the 4 that is being compared.
The 4S is quite a significant upgrade. Faster CPU and graphics, HSPA+, integrated noise canceling circuitry, much better camera, BT 4.0, and redesigned antenna. On the software side, there's Siri, 1080p video recording, and real time video stabilization.
Of course, you and your ilk aren't forced to pre-define what a "real" upgrade is so you can just repeat the now age-old "it's just a minor upgrade" every time Apple releases the next iteration. In the words of John Gruber, what would it take? "A fusion energy source? Teleportation? A camera that sees into the future?"
It's not going to randomly target $200 it it doesn't think it can make a compelling product that's in line with what it stands for at that price.
Apple will do whatever it thinks will increase total profits.
The samsungs connector actually is the better one as it has a ridge to get better grip on it...
Oh yea the standard 30pin or PDMI that almost every manufacture now uses. I have one on my Asus Slider. Yes Apple has their own but so does everyone else.
That's not the definition of "better". That's the definition of "affordable".
So 'affordable' isn't 'better'?
It is to some folks. That's my point.
But you better be in lock-step with Apple on THEIR definition of 'better.' Resistance is futile...
Apple is trying to dictate the market. Which is exactly why Apple threw the hammer at IBM in 1984.
(Kinda like the old saying, "When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.")
Apple will do whatever it thinks will increase total profits.
That's not how Apple makes decisions at all. The profits are assumed to come AFTER making a great product. Profits are not the decision driver in designing the products. There is so much evidence of this in Apple's history that has been well documented, it's now silly to even suggest otherwise.
So 'affordable' isn't 'better'?
It is to some folks. That's my point.
But you better be in lock-step with Apple on THEIR definition of 'better.' Resistance is futile...
Apple is trying to dictate the market. Which is exactly why Apple threw the hammer at IBM in 1984.
(Kinda like the old saying, "When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.")
I actually think this is just a good example of Apple really understanding the market they want to go after. They understand the socio-economic market they want, and don't really go outside of that.
Affordable is a vague term the same as better is. To me, the iPad is incredibly affordable - I'm in the fortunate position that $830 is nothing to me. If all I could afford on a tablet was $200, the Amazon Kindle is more affordable, and hence much better for that person.
Apple directly target the market of people like me, and leave other segments of the market alone. I like that model, as opposed to Android, which is trying to target all segments of the market, and ends up often being a lowest common denominator platform.
So 'affordable' isn't 'better'?
It is to some folks. That's my point.
But you better be in lock-step with Apple on THEIR definition of 'better.' Resistance is futile...
Apple is trying to dictate the market. Which is exactly why Apple threw the hammer at IBM in 1984.
(Kinda like the old saying, "When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.")
You're erroneously comparing a "better" price point with a "better" quality product. Of course we go for the better price if all other things are equal but that certainly isn't the case between the Kindle and iPad. Then there are aspects that are better AND worse at the same time. iPad's 10" display is better because it's larger but worse because it's larger, depending on you expect it to fit into your life.
That's not how Apple makes decisions at all. The profits are assumed to come AFTER making a great product. Profits are not the decision driver in designing the products. There is so much evidence of this in Apple's history that has been well documented, it's now silly to even suggest otherwise.
It's Zither, what do you expect. His posts are not based on a shred of truth. Apple could be doing so much more if it simply was concerned about profits and marketshare.
Remove the branding, and I dare you to discern a Toyota Camry from a Honda Accord or a Hyundai Sonata. They all flipping look the same, but you don't see car manufacturers suing each other, do you?
"What? You mean their car has 4 tires, a steering wheel, and voice activated features TOO?! Get legal on the phone, NOW!!"
What a ridiculous, ridiculous analogy. The similarity of those 2 phones is analogous that cars have tires and wheels? How many phones looked like that before the iPhone? Let's discern the similarities in that pic:
- Almost identical shape
- identical number and arrangement of icons (4x4 grid)
- identical concept of a dock
- same gray dock background
- black background
- same concept of dots to symbolize # of screens
- eerily similar icons. ie why did the phone icon need to havr the same green background color, the same handset shape and angle, etc. There's an infinite # of ways to design it.
There wasn't a single phone that looked anywhere near this before the iPhone, never mind the numerous amounts of small and large details that are shamelessly identical, and which could have easily been done countless other ways. An equivalent analogy to your car example would be 'phones have a screen, have a speaker, earpiece, and make calls'. Extending it to include the countless specific similarities in that photo is idiotic. Car manufacturers have been pretty good at making unique designs. That comment of yours seems like a shameless troll, because you can't possibly believe what you said.
On the other hand, if the similarities between the two phones seems as similar as 3 vehicles having tires, then I would suggest that cash907 is ill-qualified to make judgments on Design, especially one where Ive is the theme
Where were the tablets? Where were the ultrabooks? Where were the multi-touch smartphones? Sure, the competition is catching up but as long as Apple continues to be first to market, they'll do just fine. The rest can continue to make "me too" products, which is exactly what they've been doing for the last decade.
The overall Apple experience is what creates repeat customers and this is where Apple excels. Anyone who puts down an Apple customer and call them brainwashed is just plain ignorant. If they're happy with whatever phone, tablet, or operating system they're using, then be happy with it, period. Personally, I'm happy with what I use and don't care one bit what anyone else uses. The haters should think about that before hating.
That's not how Apple makes decisions at all. The profits are assumed to come AFTER making a great product. Profits are not the decision driver in designing the products. There is so much evidence of this in Apple's history that has been well documented, it's now silly to even suggest otherwise.
Thank you, well said. ZZZ used to bring that one up regularly when he was ConradJoe. He knows it pisses people off when he sells Apple's motives short. We could change "silly" to "deliberately perverse." He's a fake!
Or he got sick of looking at the word "Samsung" on his TV so he cut himself a new bezel using one of the CNC machines in the background
This gets my vote for the most entertaining and least spiteful message in the thread.