And we wonder why other nations view us with suspicion
[quote]From the New York Times:
WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 ? The Defense Department is considering issuing a secret directive to the American military to conduct covert operations aimed at influencing public opinion and policy makers in friendly and neutral countries, senior Pentagon and administration officials say.
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has not yet decided on the proposal, which has ignited a fierce battle throughout the Bush administration over whether the military should carry out secret propaganda missions in friendly nations like Germany, where many of the Sept. 11 hijackers congregated, or Pakistan, still considered a haven for Al Qaeda's militants.
Such a program, for example, could include efforts to discredit and undermine the influence of mosques and religious schools that have become breeding grounds for Islamic militancy and anti-Americanism across the Middle East, Asia and Europe. It might even include setting up schools with secret American financing to teach a moderate Islamic position laced with sympathetic depictions of how the religion is practiced in America, officials said.<hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I understand the military and government has used propaganda in past wars (just as our enemies have), but to set up an organization or group within the military that aims to influence citizens in allied countries - in peacetime or wartime - that's FUBAR. Talk about Big Brother.
Rumsfeld and his cronies are starting to scare me. Being hawkish is one thing (and part of his job during these times frankly), but being Orwellian is quite another. As soon as you start hiring journalists to spread the military's message everywhere, you're talking major slippery slope.
[ 12-16-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 ? The Defense Department is considering issuing a secret directive to the American military to conduct covert operations aimed at influencing public opinion and policy makers in friendly and neutral countries, senior Pentagon and administration officials say.
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has not yet decided on the proposal, which has ignited a fierce battle throughout the Bush administration over whether the military should carry out secret propaganda missions in friendly nations like Germany, where many of the Sept. 11 hijackers congregated, or Pakistan, still considered a haven for Al Qaeda's militants.
Such a program, for example, could include efforts to discredit and undermine the influence of mosques and religious schools that have become breeding grounds for Islamic militancy and anti-Americanism across the Middle East, Asia and Europe. It might even include setting up schools with secret American financing to teach a moderate Islamic position laced with sympathetic depictions of how the religion is practiced in America, officials said.<hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I understand the military and government has used propaganda in past wars (just as our enemies have), but to set up an organization or group within the military that aims to influence citizens in allied countries - in peacetime or wartime - that's FUBAR. Talk about Big Brother.
Rumsfeld and his cronies are starting to scare me. Being hawkish is one thing (and part of his job during these times frankly), but being Orwellian is quite another. As soon as you start hiring journalists to spread the military's message everywhere, you're talking major slippery slope.
[ 12-16-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
Comments
<strong>
As soon as you start hiring journalists to spread the military's message everywhere, you're talking major slippery slope.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Would it be worse if they used members of the US military's psychological operations division to spread propaganda in the US? Like back in the 80's?
Check out the Office of Public Diplomacy (very orwellian name) - <a href="http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB40/"; target="_blank">a link</a> to get you started.
Oh, those PSYOPS guys have also popped up working for CNN - <a href="http://www.fair.org/activism/cnn-psyops.html"; target="_blank">link</a>
[ 12-16-2002: Message edited by: stupider...likeafox ]</p>
<strong>I disagree. It's not a bad idea.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think it's poor means to a proper end. Public opinion is important, but this sounds more dishonest than I'd care to agree with.
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has not yet decided on the proposal
Maybe this way?
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has not yet decided on the proposal
Maybe like this?
<a href="http://www.readingcomprehension.com/"; target="_blank">Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has not yet decided on the proposal</a>
<strong>
I think it's poor means to a proper end. Public opinion is important, but this sounds more dishonest than I'd care to agree with.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with u. Do not do wat u dun wan people to do to u.
I like your phrase " Poor means to a proper end". Indeed it is.
<strong>
Why is it a poor means? These are people who have openly declared they are at war with the US, UK and all other non-muslim nations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think you somehow missed part of the article. The propaganda is aimed at neutral and friendly countries, not our enemies (or as well as our enemies.)
<strong>
I think you somehow missed part of the article. The propaganda is aimed at neutral and friendly countries, not our enemies (or as well as our enemies.)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, my bad...you are right, my post did miss the point entirely...I am working on 3 hours of sleep...it meant as a reply to another thread on another board regarding US strikes against al queada targets i was reading at the same time....sorry...really tired, my fault entirely...2 threads blurred into 1...going to bed now before I make an even bigger ass of myself
<strong>You've been watching too much Taken macfenian. We are NOT making secret plans with aliens to help enslave the rest of the world while leaving our citizens intact. That's preposterous. Macfenian, that is ridiculous. heh.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But of course you would say that...
<strong>
But of course you would say that...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hypothetically, if lets say we WERE in cahoots with aliens, you would recieve a very special place on Earths post-invasion high council if you helped us round up all the people in your country. Hypothetically of course.
wink wink!
Screed
[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>