But Europe has had video chatting for a while. While it may have been limited to local countries it was used and encouraged by the operators. I'm not sure but again, Apple should let the users decide or at least let the country operators decide. A blanket ban of 3G or LTE FaceTime will guarantee that it will stay a niche idea and nothing more.
The US is not socialist country, as you are well aware, so the people don't control what features are added. The question one should be asking is: why isn't Apple adding this feature that could easy be enabled and would seemingly strengthen their iPhone dominance?
On Verizon it is. AT&T has no tethering plan at this time but word is they are working on it... surely in response to Verizon. I'm not sure if Canada's carriers allow tethering on LTE or at all with the iPad.
The US is not socialist country, as you are well aware, so the people don't control what features are added. The question one should be asking is: why isn't Apple adding this feature that could easy be enabled and would seemingly strengthen their iPhone dominance?
Agreed, and I am sure the question has been asked a million times with Apple choosing not to answer a million times. While I initially liked FaceTime because of its superior quality, I use Skype because it works over 3G which is the point in the first place. Again, Apple might decide not to implement it in the US, fine and dandy, but other countries do not need their hand held by Apple in regards to data usage. Just a thought.
Agreed, and I am sure the question has been asked a million times with Apple choosing not to answer a million times. While I initially liked FaceTime because of its superior quality, I use Skype because it works over 3G which is the point in the first place. Again, Apple might decide not to implement it in the US, fine and dandy, but other countries do not need their hand held by Apple in regards to data usage. Just a thought.
Apple is a US company. The US is Apple's largest single market and will likely be so until China can overtake it. The needs of a few small countries aren't going to come first with a feature they can market. As you pointed out to me people were furious that Apple included the bands for the US and Canada LTE but not for Europe even though they clearly state that the countries and carriers for which LTE will work. Imagine if they gave Finland FaceTime over 3G (and above) but not the US. The LTE thing requires HW, this is just a line or two of code. Bottom line: There are other reasons beyond our desires that need to be considered.
Apple is a US company. The US is Apple's largest single market and will likely be so until China can overtake it. The needs of a few small countries aren't going to come first with a feature they can market. As you pointed out to me people were furious that Apple included the bands for the US and Canada LTE but not for Europe even though they clearly state that the countries and carriers for which LTE will work. Imagine if they gave Finland FaceTime over 3G (and above) but not the US. The LTE thing requires HW, this is just a line or two of code. Bottom line: There are other reasons beyond our desires that need to be considered.
Nope, I'm not Finnish. Just an American working here...
Combined the rest of the world is larger than the US and globally Apple is blocking a proposed feature because of only one country. The LTE debacle is the product of slow minds who happen not to read the specs of the product. DC-HSPA+ works pretty fast here and in some cases can rival current US LTE speeds so in a way it is a non-issue. However the FT is something all together different. If Skype and a few other apps can function over 3G, I know for sure that FT can. In this instance Apple is "punishing" (wrong word) the world because US networks can't handle it.
If Skype and a few other apps can function over 3G, I know for sure that FT can. In this instance Apple is "punishing" (wrong word) the world because US networks can't handle it.
How many Skype customers are there in the US that have it installed on cellphones? Once FaceTime is active on iPhones and iPads with WiFi+3G/4G then every single device will be a free iCloud account away from being FaceTime customers. I assume the majority have iCloud accounts based on Apple's statement of the uptake. So the issue isn't can 'a' cellular device connect to FaceTime and work, it's can a % or x-many cellular devices connect to FaceTime and not cause a network issue?
As perviously noted I think it will be okay, but that's just a guess. Maybe Apple had to wait for LTE to be ready in order to protect itself. If that's the case then we shouldn't have expected it as Apple doesn't like to change the iPad OS anymore than it has to outside a major iOS update. That means because we didn't get it with iOS 5 and iPhone 4S that iOS 6 and the next iPhone would be the earliest to expect it which makes this entire thread moot.
1) I don't think we can conclude it wasn't bandwidth-based back in 2010 when FaceTime was introduced since the 3G HW in the iPhone 4 and the cellular networks at the time could handle the load of a single device. The bandwidth issue could come from multiple devices, or at least a bottleneck of processing that much QoS data.
2) The same with 3G applies to 4G. The extra speed means nothing if that is choked off, but as previously noted I don't think that would happen nor is it germane as FaceTime carrier updates probably wouldn't get announced until a major iOS or iPhone update.
3) It's not just about the carriers being happy, but it's about us being happy with the carrier. Make a few customers happy at first for a feature or make every one unhappy because even basic network access slows to a crawl. Would that happen? I have no idea without looking at their infrastructure, but they have had 18 months to prepare.
4) It's not about it technically being to get a 2-way video chat with a jailbroken or 3rd-party service as those will not as simple or as used as Apple's default service, especially when it goes live. For example, even Siri, which is a lot less data to sent and received, had a lot of problems its first week and that was only with new iPhone 4S. Now that was the server-side processing, not the data network, but the result of an overload is the same: an unhappy customer.
I don't think there would be network overload. Video calling is one of those ideas that looks cool in the movies but people don't actually want to use it day to day. It's too formal. No one wants to put their makeup and their smile on when they can just call or text.
For regular communications (or really anything you have to do over and over), speed and convenience becomes the most important thing. More important than media fidelity.
Where convenience is not so important is when it's a special occasion or once off, such as showing the new baby to Grandma, or showing someone the beautiful sunset you're seeing. But once-offs are not going to overload the network.
How many Skype customers are there in the US that have it installed on cellphones? Once FaceTime is active on iPhones and iPads with WiFi+3G/4G then every single device will be a free iCloud account away from being FaceTime customers
Skype is the Apple of video calls : it just works. I for once have never ever used FT on my iPad 3G but Skyped quite a lot, even over 3G networks. Sure the video quality is not as good as what you get from FT (yes I did test it). But as I want my vcs to work, I take the workhorse that gets the job done.
Apple is a US company. The US is Apple's largest single market and will likely be so until China can overtake it. The needs of a few small countries aren't going to come first with a feature they can market.
A few small countries?
Firstly, what about countries like Germany - which has 80 million people? Nearly a third of the population of the US - I wouldn't exactly call that 'small'.
Secondly, there are a lot more than a 'few' countries in Europe and the rest of the world with decent 3G service. Try 'dozens' and you're getting there.
It's stupid that a limitation which is entirely about US carriers' disproportionate market power is imposed on the rest of the world.
Firstly, what about countries like Germany - which has 80 million people? Nearly a third of the population of the US - I wouldn't exactly call that 'small'.
Secondly, there are a lot more than a 'few' countries in Europe and the rest of the world with decent 3G service. Try 'dozens' and you're getting there.
Since this thread is about FaceTime over LTE I am referring to the few small countries that could handle the iPad's LTE bands. Clearly I wasn't referring to 3G or that would be, what, nearly 200 countries and 7.75 billion people? I only know of one official country outside the US but I rounded up to include a spattering of unknown networks. Again, they simply won't come before the US, especially not for a feature they can market.
Quote:
It's stupid that a limitation which is entirely about US carriers' disproportionate market power is imposed on the rest of the world.[
It's erroneous to conclude that it's only because of the US. Many countries have an inferior cellular network compared to the US so you can't take the best in a list and say that all other nations should adapt instantly. Sometimes, the weakest link does hold back the rest. That's business. That's life. I don't care for Android development being stunted by the poor way in which it's licensed and updated by Google but it's not my place to demand Google should control their store to reduce malware and that vendors should have updates tested and released right away.
But how would that affect the network if all devices were allowed to have realtime 2-way QoS A/V streams? Things get hairier when you scale up, especially when you scale up from a fraction of a fraction of a percentage to 100% at once. If you can't do it in stages then you better be damn sure it can handle the load when you can or you end up, in this case, making the app/device look bad and the negatively affect everyone on that tower/network.
Quite the opposite. Verizon has already felt the crunch of the iPhone on their 3G network that by the time the iPhone 4S was coming out they were offering permanent double data for the same price for anyone that would sign up for a 4G-capable phone. Right now LTE is wide open.
I wouldn't have expected Apple would launch cellular FaceTime with the iPad first. While it could allow for a certain level of testing before releasing in the 6th gen iPhone it even if it failed miserably people would still expect, and even if it wasn't an issue it would not be a clue as to what would happen when the more popular device that is all cellular connected and connected when you leave the store.
I expect this is coming but I would expect it with iOS 6.0 and next iPhone.
Sure, let's not let a company decide what's best for their products, let's socialize all companies so it's up to the people to decide what is included.
All people are doing nothing but facetiming with each other all day huh? not to mention the fact that iPad 3 is only out of the gates today.
I hate how Apple keeps imposing these unnecessary limitations. It should be up to the user to decide if his or her connection is good enough and data plan can handle the traffic.
Well that's a bit silly isn't it... we finally get Cellular networks the speed of Wi-Fi and they don't allow you to use FaceTime. It just goes to show the reason it was not allowed on 3G was never about bandwidth, it was about keeping the carriers happy.
You seem to be confusing speed and bandwidth. Imagine the cellular network as a highway. You can increase the speed limit and the top speed of the cars traveling on it, but if it's a one lane road and you have enough people driving on it at the same time you'll still get a traffic jam.
Comments
But Europe has had video chatting for a while. While it may have been limited to local countries it was used and encouraged by the operators. I'm not sure but again, Apple should let the users decide or at least let the country operators decide. A blanket ban of 3G or LTE FaceTime will guarantee that it will stay a niche idea and nothing more.
The US is not socialist country, as you are well aware, so the people don't control what features are added. The question one should be asking is: why isn't Apple adding this feature that could easy be enabled and would seemingly strengthen their iPhone dominance?
Is LTE tethering allowed?
On Verizon it is. AT&T has no tethering plan at this time but word is they are working on it... surely in response to Verizon. I'm not sure if Canada's carriers allow tethering on LTE or at all with the iPad.
PS: Are you Finnish?
The US is not socialist country, as you are well aware, so the people don't control what features are added. The question one should be asking is: why isn't Apple adding this feature that could easy be enabled and would seemingly strengthen their iPhone dominance?
Agreed, and I am sure the question has been asked a million times with Apple choosing not to answer a million times. While I initially liked FaceTime because of its superior quality, I use Skype because it works over 3G which is the point in the first place. Again, Apple might decide not to implement it in the US, fine and dandy, but other countries do not need their hand held by Apple in regards to data usage. Just a thought.
Agreed, and I am sure the question has been asked a million times with Apple choosing not to answer a million times. While I initially liked FaceTime because of its superior quality, I use Skype because it works over 3G which is the point in the first place. Again, Apple might decide not to implement it in the US, fine and dandy, but other countries do not need their hand held by Apple in regards to data usage. Just a thought.
Apple is a US company. The US is Apple's largest single market and will likely be so until China can overtake it. The needs of a few small countries aren't going to come first with a feature they can market. As you pointed out to me people were furious that Apple included the bands for the US and Canada LTE but not for Europe even though they clearly state that the countries and carriers for which LTE will work. Imagine if they gave Finland FaceTime over 3G (and above) but not the US. The LTE thing requires HW, this is just a line or two of code. Bottom line: There are other reasons beyond our desires that need to be considered.
Can anyone confirm if this is currently possible with an iPad 2 tethered with an iPhone?
I thought the distinctive tethering icon means apple devices treat tethered wifi connections differently to vanilla wifi.
Confirmed here in Australia.
I just tethered my iPad 2 to my iPhone 4S and was able to make a FaceTime call.
Apple is a US company. The US is Apple's largest single market and will likely be so until China can overtake it. The needs of a few small countries aren't going to come first with a feature they can market. As you pointed out to me people were furious that Apple included the bands for the US and Canada LTE but not for Europe even though they clearly state that the countries and carriers for which LTE will work. Imagine if they gave Finland FaceTime over 3G (and above) but not the US. The LTE thing requires HW, this is just a line or two of code. Bottom line: There are other reasons beyond our desires that need to be considered.
Nope, I'm not Finnish. Just an American working here...
Combined the rest of the world is larger than the US and globally Apple is blocking a proposed feature because of only one country. The LTE debacle is the product of slow minds who happen not to read the specs of the product. DC-HSPA+ works pretty fast here and in some cases can rival current US LTE speeds so in a way it is a non-issue. However the FT is something all together different. If Skype and a few other apps can function over 3G, I know for sure that FT can. In this instance Apple is "punishing" (wrong word) the world because US networks can't handle it.
A new report has confirmed that Apple's third-generation iPad will not be allowed to make FaceTime calls on an LTE network.
Is LTE tethering allowed?
That's interesting, there's no easy way to tether a Mac to iPad.
Verizon says they're doing it:
http://appadvice.com/appnn/2012/03/v...pad-data-plans
For low, low prices for large, large data.
Oh, oops. Make that high prices for measly data.
That's interesting, there's no easy way to tether a Mac to iPad.
Verizon says they're doing it:
http://appadvice.com/appnn/2012/03/v...pad-data-plans
Not for another twenty-four hours, anyway.
If Skype and a few other apps can function over 3G, I know for sure that FT can. In this instance Apple is "punishing" (wrong word) the world because US networks can't handle it.
How many Skype customers are there in the US that have it installed on cellphones? Once FaceTime is active on iPhones and iPads with WiFi+3G/4G then every single device will be a free iCloud account away from being FaceTime customers. I assume the majority have iCloud accounts based on Apple's statement of the uptake. So the issue isn't can 'a' cellular device connect to FaceTime and work, it's can a % or x-many cellular devices connect to FaceTime and not cause a network issue?
As perviously noted I think it will be okay, but that's just a guess. Maybe Apple had to wait for LTE to be ready in order to protect itself. If that's the case then we shouldn't have expected it as Apple doesn't like to change the iPad OS anymore than it has to outside a major iOS update. That means because we didn't get it with iOS 5 and iPhone 4S that iOS 6 and the next iPhone would be the earliest to expect it which makes this entire thread moot.
1) I don't think we can conclude it wasn't bandwidth-based back in 2010 when FaceTime was introduced since the 3G HW in the iPhone 4 and the cellular networks at the time could handle the load of a single device. The bandwidth issue could come from multiple devices, or at least a bottleneck of processing that much QoS data.
2) The same with 3G applies to 4G. The extra speed means nothing if that is choked off, but as previously noted I don't think that would happen nor is it germane as FaceTime carrier updates probably wouldn't get announced until a major iOS or iPhone update.
3) It's not just about the carriers being happy, but it's about us being happy with the carrier. Make a few customers happy at first for a feature or make every one unhappy because even basic network access slows to a crawl. Would that happen? I have no idea without looking at their infrastructure, but they have had 18 months to prepare.
4) It's not about it technically being to get a 2-way video chat with a jailbroken or 3rd-party service as those will not as simple or as used as Apple's default service, especially when it goes live. For example, even Siri, which is a lot less data to sent and received, had a lot of problems its first week and that was only with new iPhone 4S. Now that was the server-side processing, not the data network, but the result of an overload is the same: an unhappy customer.
I don't think there would be network overload. Video calling is one of those ideas that looks cool in the movies but people don't actually want to use it day to day. It's too formal. No one wants to put their makeup and their smile on when they can just call or text.
For regular communications (or really anything you have to do over and over), speed and convenience becomes the most important thing. More important than media fidelity.
Where convenience is not so important is when it's a special occasion or once off, such as showing the new baby to Grandma, or showing someone the beautiful sunset you're seeing. But once-offs are not going to overload the network.
How many Skype customers are there in the US that have it installed on cellphones? Once FaceTime is active on iPhones and iPads with WiFi+3G/4G then every single device will be a free iCloud account away from being FaceTime customers
Skype is the Apple of video calls : it just works. I for once have never ever used FT on my iPad 3G but Skyped quite a lot, even over 3G networks. Sure the video quality is not as good as what you get from FT (yes I did test it). But as I want my vcs to work, I take the workhorse that gets the job done.
Skype
A new report has confirmed that Apple's third-generation iPad will not be allowed to make FaceTime calls on an LTE network.
...
Not an issue at all: few will notice, fewer will complain, none will refrain from buying.
Apple is a US company. The US is Apple's largest single market and will likely be so until China can overtake it. The needs of a few small countries aren't going to come first with a feature they can market.
A few small countries?
Firstly, what about countries like Germany - which has 80 million people? Nearly a third of the population of the US - I wouldn't exactly call that 'small'.
Secondly, there are a lot more than a 'few' countries in Europe and the rest of the world with decent 3G service. Try 'dozens' and you're getting there.
It's stupid that a limitation which is entirely about US carriers' disproportionate market power is imposed on the rest of the world.
A few small countries?
Firstly, what about countries like Germany - which has 80 million people? Nearly a third of the population of the US - I wouldn't exactly call that 'small'.
Secondly, there are a lot more than a 'few' countries in Europe and the rest of the world with decent 3G service. Try 'dozens' and you're getting there.
Since this thread is about FaceTime over LTE I am referring to the few small countries that could handle the iPad's LTE bands. Clearly I wasn't referring to 3G or that would be, what, nearly 200 countries and 7.75 billion people? I only know of one official country outside the US but I rounded up to include a spattering of unknown networks. Again, they simply won't come before the US, especially not for a feature they can market.
It's stupid that a limitation which is entirely about US carriers' disproportionate market power is imposed on the rest of the world.[
It's erroneous to conclude that it's only because of the US. Many countries have an inferior cellular network compared to the US so you can't take the best in a list and say that all other nations should adapt instantly. Sometimes, the weakest link does hold back the rest. That's business. That's life. I don't care for Android development being stunted by the poor way in which it's licensed and updated by Google but it's not my place to demand Google should control their store to reduce malware and that vendors should have updates tested and released right away.
Good question.
But how would that affect the network if all devices were allowed to have realtime 2-way QoS A/V streams? Things get hairier when you scale up, especially when you scale up from a fraction of a fraction of a percentage to 100% at once. If you can't do it in stages then you better be damn sure it can handle the load when you can or you end up, in this case, making the app/device look bad and the negatively affect everyone on that tower/network.
Quite the opposite. Verizon has already felt the crunch of the iPhone on their 3G network that by the time the iPhone 4S was coming out they were offering permanent double data for the same price for anyone that would sign up for a 4G-capable phone. Right now LTE is wide open.
I wouldn't have expected Apple would launch cellular FaceTime with the iPad first. While it could allow for a certain level of testing before releasing in the 6th gen iPhone it even if it failed miserably people would still expect, and even if it wasn't an issue it would not be a clue as to what would happen when the more popular device that is all cellular connected and connected when you leave the store.
I expect this is coming but I would expect it with iOS 6.0 and next iPhone.
Sure, let's not let a company decide what's best for their products, let's socialize all companies so it's up to the people to decide what is included.
All people are doing nothing but facetiming with each other all day huh? not to mention the fact that iPad 3 is only out of the gates today.
All bullshit all the time.
I hate how Apple keeps imposing these unnecessary limitations. It should be up to the user to decide if his or her connection is good enough and data plan can handle the traffic.
This is not Apple - it's a carrier restriction.
All people are doing nothing but facetiming with each other all day huh? not to mention the fact that iPad 3 is only out of the gates today.
All bullshit all the time.
Two fallacious statements and an insult without a single point made. Impressive in its own way.
Well that's a bit silly isn't it... we finally get Cellular networks the speed of Wi-Fi and they don't allow you to use FaceTime. It just goes to show the reason it was not allowed on 3G was never about bandwidth, it was about keeping the carriers happy.
You seem to be confusing speed and bandwidth. Imagine the cellular network as a highway. You can increase the speed limit and the top speed of the cars traveling on it, but if it's a one lane road and you have enough people driving on it at the same time you'll still get a traffic jam.