When I really go upset was when Bill Mahr, of HBO's Real Time, was exalting Daisy at the top of the show for his hard-hitting exposé of Apple's Foxconn assembly practices. It really lowered Mahr in my estimation. I knew in my heart Daisy was a big phony (and I mean BIG), and this verification just made my day.
I really like Maher, even though some of his views are WAY left of mine. Ever since he had Daisey on the show in early February, he hasn't missed too many opportunities to take a swipe at Apple. Given all this went down yesterday, I sent several messages to the show with the hopes that one would pop up on the 'overtime' segment regarding this clown and his claims. Needless to say, it wasn't discussed.
Most of the people who supported Mike Daisey's accusations, such as Bill Mahr, were already inclined to believe that Apple was guilty. Daisey simply told them what they wanted to hear.
A lie is a lie is a lie. Presented in the context if a news program, such a lie is reprehensible. Whether Daisey is willing to admit it or not, he represented his lies as truths to people whose job was to vette his claims. Sorry or not, he lied about Apple and he lied about his veracity.
Worse, he lies and apparently continues to lie to his audiences knowing that his misrepresentations will form the basis for opinions of people who are otherwise uninformed or falsely informed by other sources.
This makes him the worst kind of liar.
Agree with most of what you say, but This American Life is not a news program.
Daisey was touring Australia when Steve Jobs died, that focused attention on his show. He appeared on the ABC's (national broadcaster) Lateline the day after Steve's death. Transcript & video here: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...1/s3334201.htm
He presents himself as an expert of sorts and also represents the same misinformation as fact, but goes further in this interview stating that posing as a businessman enabled him to investigate conditions closer than declared journalists and typical journalism in China. This is well before the T.A.L. story and at a tragically opportune moment for self promotion.
Again, This American Life isn't remotely a news program. Have you ever listened to it? People tell stories, Ira Glass considers what those stories mean and how they relate to lives lived in the manner of a literary discussion.
That is news but it is soft news instead of hard news.
Quote:
I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been more diligent, considering the inflammatory nature of the charges leveled by Daisey, but imagining that this was an investigative hit piece that failed to do "fact checking" just wildly misses the tone of TAL.
I listen to TAL every week as a podcast and love the heck out of it. There were many differences between a normal epidose of TAL and this particular episode. You note that there are typical several stories, they are called acts, and they follow a theme. On this episode, the entire show was turned over to Daisy after an intro. It would be no different than any other show that does human interest stories suddenly deciding to do or show one hard hitting investigative piece.
Quote:
Daisey, on the other hand, has a lot to answer for, since he repeated his "artistic" interpretation of the facts during interviews with various actual news outlets. It's one thing to maintain that his stage performance was poetic mediation on actual events, or that even where he was making things up the general narrative still spoke to some larger truth (dubious, but it was a dramatic performance, so we can make some allowances).
However, there are multiple instances of him repeating what he now admits are absolute falsehood, when questioned by news organizations. He didn't say "Well, I personally didn't see any underage workers, but I have reason to believe that's happening, which is why I include that idea in my show." He flatly stated that he saw and talked to underage workers, which he now admits he did not. He flatly stated that he saw and talked to a man with hands gnarled from repetitive stress, which he now admits he did not. He now admits that the (obviously crafted to provide an emotional gut-punch) scene of that same man seeing a finished iPad for the first time was pure fiction.
As others have said, if there are endemic problems, investigate and report them. Pretending to believe (as Daisey appears to do on his latest blog post responding to these charges) that somehow it doesn't matter-- that if we know there is some bad stuff then made up bad stuff is reasonable and on point is just lazy and counterproductive. If the cause is to improve working conditions in China, Daisey has dealt that cause a serious blow, just because he couldn't be bothered to try harder.=
I'd be this happens a lot more often than we all know. Clearly there was some push back on this story and knowing the history and nature of Apple, I have no doubt they were part of the push back since it was about them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
I disagree. If Daisey did a show about the "Pear" computer company, whose contractors treated their employees badly and he made the situation worse than the reality in order to make a point (as most media does), that's fair game. When a stand-up comic exaggerates issues in order to make a point (or in order to make it funnier), that's fair game too, so if a comic does a riff on Steve Jobs or on what they perceive as a typical Apple fanboy, etc., that's fair game even if it's done in bad taste. But when you state that a worker's hand was mangled or that underage labor is being used and you can't back it up, that's not fair game. I congratulate "This American Life" for using fact checkers, which a lot of media doesn't bother with anymore, but I do have to wonder how this got broadcast before the fact checking was complete. But at least they owned up to their mistake which is a lot more than what Daisey is doing.
But this is what we get when we live in an age when politicians (and some media) insist that the facts are what they say they are, not what the reality is.
You've hit the point perfectly. These were not human interest stories pondering a theme or deeper meaning. He was alleging human rights violations. Cracking a joke about a drunk uncle that messes up every family BBQ, well people can relate and even laugh because that is a pretty common experience to have a family member that is behaving that way. This would be like a dramatic story involving that uncle raping your cousin. The law would have been broken and people react differently to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewrite
really?
that's not what Glass says in the retraction:
"Many dedicated reporters and editors - our friends and colleagues - have worked for years to build the reputation for accuracy and integrity that the journalism on public radio enjoys. It?s trusted by so many people for good reason. Our program adheres to the same journalistic standards as the other national shows, and in this case, we did not live up to those standards."
You again are correct. TAL is soft news, almost all human interest stories, but it is news.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Glass can say anything he wants, and clearly he regrets any dishonor these revelations might bring to NPR as a whole. But the fact remains that This American Life is not remotely a "news" program and generally deals in anecdotes, highly subjective narratives and personal observation. As I've said, I would bet there have been countless instances of people featured on TAL that have told highly inflected if not outright modified versions of the events they've recounted. The difference here is that the events recounted are newsworthy.
That doesn't make Daisey's dissembling OK or make TAL's broadcasting of same any better. But behaving as if TAL were CNN is stupid.
TAL isn't CNN but on the week it ran this story it was not the typical TAL either. They took the entire week and gave one man and his allegations and very power platform. It was especially damaging because the mix of hard and soft news that the Daisey piece represented were alleging inhuman behaviors and actions.
Comments
When I really go upset was when Bill Mahr, of HBO's Real Time, was exalting Daisy at the top of the show for his hard-hitting exposé of Apple's Foxconn assembly practices. It really lowered Mahr in my estimation. I knew in my heart Daisy was a big phony (and I mean BIG), and this verification just made my day.
I really like Maher, even though some of his views are WAY left of mine. Ever since he had Daisey on the show in early February, he hasn't missed too many opportunities to take a swipe at Apple. Given all this went down yesterday, I sent several messages to the show with the hopes that one would pop up on the 'overtime' segment regarding this clown and his claims. Needless to say, it wasn't discussed.
A lie is a lie is a lie. Presented in the context if a news program, such a lie is reprehensible. Whether Daisey is willing to admit it or not, he represented his lies as truths to people whose job was to vette his claims. Sorry or not, he lied about Apple and he lied about his veracity.
Worse, he lies and apparently continues to lie to his audiences knowing that his misrepresentations will form the basis for opinions of people who are otherwise uninformed or falsely informed by other sources.
This makes him the worst kind of liar.
Agree with most of what you say, but This American Life is not a news program.
He did go undercover at Macy's for that big exposé on the working conditions of the elves.
THAT was a great episode.
He presents himself as an expert of sorts and also represents the same misinformation as fact, but goes further in this interview stating that posing as a businessman enabled him to investigate conditions closer than declared journalists and typical journalism in China. This is well before the T.A.L. story and at a tragically opportune moment for self promotion.
Again, This American Life isn't remotely a news program. Have you ever listened to it? People tell stories, Ira Glass considers what those stories mean and how they relate to lives lived in the manner of a literary discussion.
That is news but it is soft news instead of hard news.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been more diligent, considering the inflammatory nature of the charges leveled by Daisey, but imagining that this was an investigative hit piece that failed to do "fact checking" just wildly misses the tone of TAL.
I listen to TAL every week as a podcast and love the heck out of it. There were many differences between a normal epidose of TAL and this particular episode. You note that there are typical several stories, they are called acts, and they follow a theme. On this episode, the entire show was turned over to Daisy after an intro. It would be no different than any other show that does human interest stories suddenly deciding to do or show one hard hitting investigative piece.
Daisey, on the other hand, has a lot to answer for, since he repeated his "artistic" interpretation of the facts during interviews with various actual news outlets. It's one thing to maintain that his stage performance was poetic mediation on actual events, or that even where he was making things up the general narrative still spoke to some larger truth (dubious, but it was a dramatic performance, so we can make some allowances).
However, there are multiple instances of him repeating what he now admits are absolute falsehood, when questioned by news organizations. He didn't say "Well, I personally didn't see any underage workers, but I have reason to believe that's happening, which is why I include that idea in my show." He flatly stated that he saw and talked to underage workers, which he now admits he did not. He flatly stated that he saw and talked to a man with hands gnarled from repetitive stress, which he now admits he did not. He now admits that the (obviously crafted to provide an emotional gut-punch) scene of that same man seeing a finished iPad for the first time was pure fiction.
As others have said, if there are endemic problems, investigate and report them. Pretending to believe (as Daisey appears to do on his latest blog post responding to these charges) that somehow it doesn't matter-- that if we know there is some bad stuff then made up bad stuff is reasonable and on point is just lazy and counterproductive. If the cause is to improve working conditions in China, Daisey has dealt that cause a serious blow, just because he couldn't be bothered to try harder.=
I'd be this happens a lot more often than we all know. Clearly there was some push back on this story and knowing the history and nature of Apple, I have no doubt they were part of the push back since it was about them.
I disagree. If Daisey did a show about the "Pear" computer company, whose contractors treated their employees badly and he made the situation worse than the reality in order to make a point (as most media does), that's fair game. When a stand-up comic exaggerates issues in order to make a point (or in order to make it funnier), that's fair game too, so if a comic does a riff on Steve Jobs or on what they perceive as a typical Apple fanboy, etc., that's fair game even if it's done in bad taste. But when you state that a worker's hand was mangled or that underage labor is being used and you can't back it up, that's not fair game. I congratulate "This American Life" for using fact checkers, which a lot of media doesn't bother with anymore, but I do have to wonder how this got broadcast before the fact checking was complete. But at least they owned up to their mistake which is a lot more than what Daisey is doing.
But this is what we get when we live in an age when politicians (and some media) insist that the facts are what they say they are, not what the reality is.
You've hit the point perfectly. These were not human interest stories pondering a theme or deeper meaning. He was alleging human rights violations. Cracking a joke about a drunk uncle that messes up every family BBQ, well people can relate and even laugh because that is a pretty common experience to have a family member that is behaving that way. This would be like a dramatic story involving that uncle raping your cousin. The law would have been broken and people react differently to that.
really?
that's not what Glass says in the retraction:
"Many dedicated reporters and editors - our friends and colleagues - have worked for years to build the reputation for accuracy and integrity that the journalism on public radio enjoys. It?s trusted by so many people for good reason. Our program adheres to the same journalistic standards as the other national shows, and in this case, we did not live up to those standards."
You again are correct. TAL is soft news, almost all human interest stories, but it is news.
Glass can say anything he wants, and clearly he regrets any dishonor these revelations might bring to NPR as a whole. But the fact remains that This American Life is not remotely a "news" program and generally deals in anecdotes, highly subjective narratives and personal observation. As I've said, I would bet there have been countless instances of people featured on TAL that have told highly inflected if not outright modified versions of the events they've recounted. The difference here is that the events recounted are newsworthy.
That doesn't make Daisey's dissembling OK or make TAL's broadcasting of same any better. But behaving as if TAL were CNN is stupid.
TAL isn't CNN but on the week it ran this story it was not the typical TAL either. They took the entire week and gave one man and his allegations and very power platform. It was especially damaging because the mix of hard and soft news that the Daisey piece represented were alleging inhuman behaviors and actions.