Apple's calls for repatriation tax holiday gain no traction with White House

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  • Reply 21 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anon7979 View Post


    This was a failed policy in 2004, and it would be another colossal failure today:



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...022129888.html



    A pure repatriation tax holiday probably wouldn't have different results (other than avoiding the double-taxation in the system which is why repatriation doesn't happen now), but maybe there's another solution.



    Special deduction. If a business brings money into the U.S. and uses it for various forms of capital outlays or other investment within the U.S., they can deduct a percentage of the amount spent from the repatriation tax. So, if Apple wants to build a new factory, or a new customer support complex, or a new major server farm, they can bring in the money. If the investment doesn't happen, no deduction.
  • Reply 22 of 122
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tokolosh View Post


    Apple has made a lot of money by selling their products overseas and has been taxed on those earnings. Bringing it back to the US of A would result in additional taxation.



    and this was no secret to them when they we gathering revenue hand over fist. There's no thievery going on here by the government. On the contrary you might say Apple are trying to dodge the public purse.



    The shortfall is made is somewhere, and typically Joe Average is the guy they called upon.



    No intention to turn this into an ability to pay argument - but these things are (should be) built into the product price and Apple with probably the greatest GM in electronics isn't going to be burnt by repatriating that cash.
  • Reply 23 of 122
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ronin510 View Post


    Apple's already been taxed on this money. They're an international corporation that operates in multiple countries. The products and services are taxed locally. If they bring the money back into the US, then they'll get taxed *again*, but by a different government entity.



    These sales come from non-US consumers. That's part of the global economy. They can go the Microsoft route and purchase a non-US entity like Skype. That means the money still won't go into the US. I'd rather have them get the money into the US and have them use it in the US rather than having it just accumulate outside of it.



    It seems likely to me that the US Govt operates a double taxation regime. In such cases, wouldn't it onlybe the difference between the foreign rate and US rate of taxation that is levied?
  • Reply 24 of 122
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mystigo View Post


    These types of holidays make no sense. In fact they make things considerably worse. If companies know that congress will grab their ankles and grant a tax "holiday" every few years, the companies will *never* bring any cash home during the off years. All revenue would be lost from global corporations forever.



    You're right, they make no sense for the exact reason you described. However you didn't take your thought to its logical conclusion - that income already taxed overseas should not be taxed again to move it to a different bank account on a different landmass. Politicians eventually always lose their backbone, and corporations have all the money and the power in this situation.



    The correct outcome is to stop the ridiculous habit of taxing income that's already been taxed elsewhere.
  • Reply 25 of 122
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 513member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post


    Most industrialized countries do not tax foreign sourced corporate income that has already been taxed in the foreign country. Only the US does that.



    This US practice actually discourages job creation at home because it is an incentive for corporations to use foreign incomes to invest in foreign countries rather than in the US.



    Unless you are prepared to make it mandatory that US corporations bring home all foreign earnings (and I don't know if that's administratively and politically realistic), then you have to lure these earnings to the US if you want them to be brought here.



    I'm not clear how you can be treated as a US company if you aren't going to be a US company. As a citizen working abroad you would have to pay the difference in tax rates, assuming the US rate is higher - there's no magic 'well, I'll keep it in the bank over here'. You have to file with the IRS and declare that income + pay taxes if the foreign rate was lower. If the foreign rate is the higher of the two, then you wouldn't pay taxes again, so there's no double taxing involved.



    I'm totally against taxing the same money multiple times as well, but a tax holiday on repatriating foreign earnings really just rewards putting your investments overseas. Actually, most of these tax shelter loopholes are just inherently unfair to those who don't have enough money to play the big money tax games. Just ask Romney about his Bain/Cayman and Swiss accounts if you want to see how it's done.
  • Reply 26 of 122
    Tax deals are for investment spending.



    Apple will hopefully take the hint.
  • Reply 27 of 122
    frankiefrankie Posts: 381member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alann View Post


    Apple made a LOT of money exporting jobs and manufacturing overseas. It seems fair that some of that money should be taxed on its way back to the U.S.



    UH, yeah ya think! And I love Apple products but give me an f'ing break.



    Yeah they don't have enough. ONly 98 Billion in CASH. Meanwhile people are out of work and loosing their houses...



    I could not agree more. Too bad the entire Republican party thinks it should all be tax free and corporate taxes should be zero. Meanwhile none of these big companies pays taxes anyways. What a joke, and it ain't funny...
  • Reply 28 of 122
    mcrcnmcrcn Posts: 27member
    How much does the Treasury get if Apple never brings the money back?
  • Reply 29 of 122
    shadowxprshadowxpr Posts: 162member
    Pay the taxes apple and any other multy billion dollar American company with money internationally. No more Legal tax evasion with holiday breaks when you can afford it, while normal Americans pay their fair chair each year...
  • Reply 30 of 122
    rtdunhamrtdunham Posts: 428member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    ... a $1 trillion influx brought back into the US and getting some taxes instead of no taxes...



    This is clearly a complex situation. But don't those profits exist overseas because Apple and other companies exported the jobs, and paid for work that yielded no benefits to the US in terms of materials sourcing, jobs, the multiplier effect of wages, or the income taxes that would have been paid by US workers? Like I say--it's complex--but it doesn't seem like good policy to embrace corporate behavior that costs the US in all those ways on the front end, and then lower taxes for the same corporations on the back end. I'll try to keep an open mind.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MysticalOS


    I bet they'd love to bring some money back here and get some more US side stuff fired up.



    Because Apple's short of cash to finance more "US side stuff"?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Techno


    if they did pay taxes already (be it in another country), then why on earth should they be penalized if they wish to repatriate it? Again, I am no expert



    Who makes and loses in this scenario? The corporation does ok: It clearly only moves its activity overseas if it can see it'll benefit from doing so. American workers lose jobs. The Treasury loses tax revenues (and remember, that's us, too: one reason personal taxes might need to be increased is if corporate tax billings drop, or are less than they'd be if certain business wasn't sent overseas). Would it change your mind if the corporation "shopped" overseas taxes, and found a haven where it paid lower taxes than it would have in the US, apart from the other cost savings? I worry that to do otherwise (to give a tax holiday) would simply encourage activity with a winner (corporations) and losers--workers, our government.



    Complex.
  • Reply 31 of 122
    alannalann Posts: 10member
    And if I had kids, I would tell them, "What's legal isn't always right. Slavery was once legal in this country. Life isn't fair, but that shouldn't prevent the righting of wrongs."



    Apple should pay a fair tax.
  • Reply 32 of 122
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post


    Your argument cuts both ways. Apple (like any "person") benefits from our society - rule of law, infrastructure, etc. So it's "fair" that they repatriate cash and pay taxes on it, not park it offshore where it benefits no one except a few already-wealthy money managers.



    This money was earned and taxed in other countries, using the infrastructure of those countries, not the USA. Your point is dumb.
  • Reply 33 of 122
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post


    Tax deals are for investment spending.



    Apple will hopefully take the hint.



    Wasted investment is just as bad as no investment at all. Refer to all those bridges to nowhere and Hillary Clinton's boneheaded idea that natural disasters are great for the economy because they boost employment.
  • Reply 34 of 122
    patranuspatranus Posts: 366member
    Why is the US government entitled to ANY of this money?

    Its all profits from overseas.
  • Reply 35 of 122
    bobringerbobringer Posts: 106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mystigo View Post


    These types of holidays make no sense. In fact they make things considerably worse. If companies know that congress will grab their ankles and grant a tax "holiday" every few years, the companies will *never* bring any cash home during the off years. All revenue would be lost from global corporations forever.



    And... what is happening now? That revenue is lost from global corporations forever WITH our current policy.



    I mean... look at what Microsoft does. They SELL BONDS in order to generate cash to distribute their dividends... while tends of billions sit overseas.
  • Reply 36 of 122
    tokoloshtokolosh Posts: 101member
    Why are so many comments here implying that Apple is dodging or evading paying their fair share. On money that they earn in the United States, and that is a huge pile in and of itself, they are paying their taxes as the law requires. This is not an issue of fair share or not. The money they've got parked elsewhere was generated elsewhere.
  • Reply 37 of 122
    bobringerbobringer Posts: 106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tokolosh View Post


    Why are so many comments here implying that Apple is dodging or evading paying their fair share. On money that they earn in the United States, and that is a huge pile in and of itself, they are paying their taxes as the law requires. This is not an issue of fair share or not. The money they've got parked elsewhere was generated elsewhere.



    Haven't you figured out what "fair share" means? To a certain segment of our population... the literal definition of "fair share" means nothing more than "from those according to their means." Apple has it... so they think they deserve it.
  • Reply 38 of 122
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobringer View Post


    Haven't you figured out what "fair share" means? To a certain segment of our population... the literal definition of "fair share" means nothing more than "from those according to their means." Apple has it... so they think they deserve it.



    Ding ding ding
  • Reply 39 of 122
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,254member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sy1492 View Post


    The current issue here is the HIGH tax rate. Lowing the tax rate on foreign money will encourage domestic investments once companies like Apple bring back profits from overseas.



    Two choices:

    $0 of the $60,000,000,000 with current tax rate or

    $x of the $60,000,000,000 with a lower tax rate



    That $x multiplies when it's injected in this nation's economy.



    The actual tax rate is irrelevant. It the hope of a lower tax rate that is keeping money overseas. If it was half what it is now corporations would still hold out if there was a promise that a hike might be lower still.



    What is needed is for the US government to incontrovertibly rule out future tax hikes to remove the incentive for companies to hold money offshore (just in case). Taxation and the government should take steps to avoid becoming a system that can be gamed, both now and in the future.
  • Reply 40 of 122
    halhikerhalhiker Posts: 111member
    Those saying Apple will invest more if they're given a tax holiday are wrong. Apple will invest money where they need to in order to make more money whether on the US or elsewhere. If they need to repatriate funds in order to do so, they will do it. Any other scenario is bullshit. Period.
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