When do you think Windows 8 Intel tablets will be generally available and:
1) have Acceptable power to run legacy apps
2) have An acceptable touch interface for legacy apps
3) have Acceptable battery life?
4) provide a viable cost/function alternative to a Windows 8 Laptop
From what I understand, there will be no viable Windows 8 Intel tablets before mid 2013 -- if ever.
And, no legacy desktop apps will run on Windows 8 ARM tablets.
I suspect that the iPad will hit 100 million users sometime before Dec 31, 2012.
1) Even with an i3 a Windows 8 tablet would be powerful enough to run many legacy programs. I occasionally run Cubase, FL Studio, and Toon Boom Animate on a Core2Duo 2.2ghz and any i3 would destroy that.
2) Yes, the touch interface is the main problem with controlling legacy programs but at least you can plugin a standard USB mouse. Microsoft has improved touch recognition as well so who knows. We'll have to see once they're released.
3) I haven't heard any facts about how long the battery life will be on a Windows 8 tablet. Was there an article about it saying otherwise? I think there would have to be tablets released to make that claim.
4) Well Ultrabooks are already $1,000 with almost the exact same specs as the MacBook Air. If the performance and price is around that then it'd be perfectly fine for me. The whole point is portable computing and with one of these I personally could be more productive than using either an iPad(which I have) or an Android tablet(which I sold). Don't get me wrong though I'm looking at just buying one of the new Ivy Bridge MacBook Airs once they're released. Hopefully next month! I'm merely saying that these will be more popular than people realize and I think they'll eventually surpass Android in the tablet market.
I thought Microsoft was launching with Intel-based tablets? If they're released with Atom processors I'd definitely skip them but an i3 would be pretty nice.
"With the October launch, Microsoft is aiming to lure Christmas Holiday season buyers.
There will be both ARM and Intel-based solutions, just as promised, but initially Intel machines will dominate as there will be more than 40 systems running on Intel architectures and less than 5 running on ARM."
IMO your's kind of implied that you were somehow pontificating on the absolute goodness of Metro and presenting same as fact.
The single thing I've said about Metro in this thread is that I'm skeptical that it will work on the desktop. How is that proclaiming its absolute goodness? If anything, it's a negative comment!
My view is that both Windows and OS X are very good products, and that both have their advantages and disadvantages and always will. It's all the dogmatic Windows-bashing that I can't stand.
Even if my company upgrades from XP to 7 or 8 with or without metro; my company laptop will still just sit on the desk switched off, while i keep using my late 2010 white MacBook. Although I find windows a pain, it even hurts my eyes, it's more of a problem with the rubbish IBM & HP Computers that our IT depart buys. They have i5 processors and 4 GB ram and are only running windows and office but something just dosn't gel. Our corporate computers crash all the time, virus are rampant and so on.
Still it keeps the IT boys in job and I'm sure Windows 8 will too.
Surely you've noticed that 90% of the world uses Windows and most have little desire not to?
True but how many of them are up to date? I see a really lot of my Windows fanatical friends still using XP, or if they actually bought a new computer, Windows 7. I suspect those that got caught up in the Vista fiasco went to OSX and never looked back. Microsoft isn't even making the lion share of its profits on Windows anymore. Probably because many are not upgrading. MS Office is their cash cow now.
When I was marketing technology to business -- it was crucial to be aware of, and conform to, the annual budget/approval cycle of your target market. In those days, most of the companies went through an August-Sepetmber budget/approval cycle (October-November at the latest).
That meant that departments (including IT) would forecast their purchases based on what was available at the time -- or reliably known to be available for the next year.
If that is still true, then I believe that Microsoft has zero chance of hitting the 2012 budget cycle for 2013.
MS has no product, history or track record on which anyone could forecast a business decision to buy and install Windows 8 Tablets...
Would you make that decision if your job/future depended on it?
Personally can't wait for win8. I just bought an iPad 3 but to be honest it was only because win 8 tablets don't exist yet and android just looks awful.
The bit I'm most looking forward to with win 8 though is apps for pc's. When was the last time you installed a tiny program on a desktop or laptop that did something like show you news for one particular site? Answer probably never, even with the mac app store it's something you don't do, you just visit the website instead. But using win 8 on a laptop I just get the feeling that I would go on the app marketplace and install apps rather than visit websites.
Apple don't have anything to worry about with the iPad, but I get the feeling win 8 is more concerned with android and chrome than anything else. Apple will after all keep profit margins on there devices up, googles all about giving the os away for free and that's and issue for ms. Comparing win 8 to android/chrome though, I don't think ms has an issue. For some reason when they produced android for tablets nobody thought that maby it would be better to get some decent icons designed rather than use ones that look like they came from windows 3.1!
And here's the kicker: it's all a REACTION to market forces that MS was way, way too slow to respond to. Which forces? The ones put in motion by Apple, and which MS competitors are squarely in control of now.
Personally can't wait for win8. I just bought an iPad 3 but to be honest it was only because win 8 tablets don't exist yet and android just looks awful.
The bit I'm most looking forward to with win 8 though is apps for pc's. When was the last time you installed a tiny program on a desktop or laptop that did something like show you news for one particular site? Answer probably never, even with the mac app store it's something you don't do, you just visit the website instead. But using win 8 on a laptop I just get the feeling that I would go on the app marketplace and install apps rather than visit websites.
Apple don't have anything to worry about with the iPad, but I get the feeling win 8 is more concerned with android and chrome than anything else. Apple will after all keep profit margins on there devices up, googles all about giving the os away for free and that's and issue for ms. Comparing win 8 to android/chrome though, I don't think ms has an issue. For some reason when they produced android for tablets nobody thought that maby it would be better to get some decent icons designed rather than use ones that look like they came from windows 3.1!
Interesting...
Why do you think you'll buy apps on a Windows tablet when you wouldn't buy them on an iPad -- likely the function will [should] be similar -- even apps like maps or YouTube that are equally accessible through a browser?
What do you think the experience with a Windows tablet will be when web sites and app developers begin to serve pages tailored to exploit the iPad's retina display and graphics... and they will?
The bar has been set higher for tablet display resolution -- will you (and others) be satisfied with second best or almost as good?
The only "regular" (non-techie) person I have seen use Windows Metro on a phone was completely baffled. Could. Not. Make. It. Work.
(at all).
From the videos I've seen of Windows Metro running on a tablet, it looks good, but seriously complicated. It has the tile desktop which is hard enough to manipulate, but the whole OS is built around a series of basically undiscoverable gestures on the bezel.
Consumers already have troubles with iOS and most find Android even harder. As a techie myself I can appreciate some of the sophistication of Metro, but it's not really consumer friendly IMO. Even if their strategy works and MS corners the market for techies who use tablets, the portion of the market that's too dumb to figure all that sh*t out and prefers iOS is probably a hundred times larger.
Videos you have seen have no tutorials whatsoever. I highly doubt Windows 8 will come with not a single tutorial video. Heck, even OS X Lion came with a tutorial for inverted scrolling. What's so baffling about Windows Phone? What was the person trying to do that was baffling? I'm curious because I use a Windows Phone.
The bar has been set higher for tablet display resolution -- will you (and others) be satisfied with second best or almost as good?
The good Windows tablets will surely have comparable displays to the new iPad. The manufacturers have absolutely no choice now that the iPad has raised the standard.
It feels like we're talking about a war that's going to happen; the plan of attack, how many forces there are, and what the enemy forces will be armed with. Unfortunately it's like we're invading Canada in this war.
The good Windows tablets will surely have comparable displays to the new iPad. The manufacturers have absolutely no choice now that the iPad has raised the standard.
They will have to raise their prices or lose profit margins. They can't compete with Apple's iPad prices now. One could say that more demand will bring down the display price but I'm not so sure it will work that way with these high resolution displays. The demand might just increase the price for a limited supply. These displays aren't that easy to produce. And I suspect Apple has already moved to secure their supply at current pricing. IMO
The good Windows tablets will surely have comparable displays to the new iPad. The manufacturers have absolutely no choice now that the iPad has raised the standard.
Really?
It's been over 2 years and no competitive tablet has been released with a display that even been close to the original iPad.
It's one thing to show one-offs or prototypes and quite another parts for large-scale productions.
We're talking about 10s of millions of devices per year to have a meaningful market penetration.
Where are the Dells, HPs, etc going to get retina-quality displays in any significant quantity -- at any price?
Then, there's the issue of what sizes and resolutions are going to be introduced -- and how will that fragment the Windows Tablet market.
MS has no track record here -- and the OEMS, the usual suspects, have a poor to bad track record with Android tablets.
Do you believe that Sammy can, and will, divert their retina manufacturing so they can release a Windows 8 ARM tablet for $499?
Despite being the biggest fanboy on the planet, I believe innovation is at its best when everyone is bringing ideas to the table(Apple, Microsoft, HP, RIM, ANdroid etc.).
It's a good thing this is an idea table and not a food table, 'cause some of these guys are are looking pretty anorexic.
Do you believe that Sammy can, and will, divert their retina manufacturing so they can release a Windows 8 ARM tablet for $499?
I don't know. But from the path that's being taken with Win8, I do get the impression that MS is taking the tablet market very seriously indeed and will pump in just about as much cash as it takes. Apple certainly has a head start, but MS has more clout and reputation than the various Android manufacturers and will put up a better fight. Of course, those factors didn't help MS very much with Windows Phone! But perhaps MS is fighting a little closer to its own territory with larger devices.
Comments
When do you think Windows 8 Intel tablets will be generally available and:
1) have Acceptable power to run legacy apps
2) have An acceptable touch interface for legacy apps
3) have Acceptable battery life?
4) provide a viable cost/function alternative to a Windows 8 Laptop
From what I understand, there will be no viable Windows 8 Intel tablets before mid 2013 -- if ever.
And, no legacy desktop apps will run on Windows 8 ARM tablets.
I suspect that the iPad will hit 100 million users sometime before Dec 31, 2012.
1) Even with an i3 a Windows 8 tablet would be powerful enough to run many legacy programs. I occasionally run Cubase, FL Studio, and Toon Boom Animate on a Core2Duo 2.2ghz and any i3 would destroy that.
2) Yes, the touch interface is the main problem with controlling legacy programs but at least you can plugin a standard USB mouse. Microsoft has improved touch recognition as well so who knows. We'll have to see once they're released.
3) I haven't heard any facts about how long the battery life will be on a Windows 8 tablet. Was there an article about it saying otherwise? I think there would have to be tablets released to make that claim.
4) Well Ultrabooks are already $1,000 with almost the exact same specs as the MacBook Air. If the performance and price is around that then it'd be perfectly fine for me. The whole point is portable computing and with one of these I personally could be more productive than using either an iPad(which I have) or an Android tablet(which I sold). Don't get me wrong though I'm looking at just buying one of the new Ivy Bridge MacBook Airs once they're released. Hopefully next month! I'm merely saying that these will be more popular than people realize and I think they'll eventually surpass Android in the tablet market.
I thought Microsoft was launching with Intel-based tablets? If they're released with Atom processors I'd definitely skip them but an i3 would be pretty nice.
"With the October launch, Microsoft is aiming to lure Christmas Holiday season buyers.
There will be both ARM and Intel-based solutions, just as promised, but initially Intel machines will dominate as there will be more than 40 systems running on Intel architectures and less than 5 running on ARM."
IMO your's kind of implied that you were somehow pontificating on the absolute goodness of Metro and presenting same as fact.
The single thing I've said about Metro in this thread is that I'm skeptical that it will work on the desktop. How is that proclaiming its absolute goodness? If anything, it's a negative comment!
My view is that both Windows and OS X are very good products, and that both have their advantages and disadvantages and always will. It's all the dogmatic Windows-bashing that I can't stand.
My prediction:
In October 2012 MicroSoft will release... Steven Sinofsky!
Still it keeps the IT boys in job and I'm sure Windows 8 will too.
Surely you've noticed that 90% of the world uses Windows and most have little desire not to?
True but how many of them are up to date? I see a really lot of my Windows fanatical friends still using XP, or if they actually bought a new computer, Windows 7. I suspect those that got caught up in the Vista fiasco went to OSX and never looked back. Microsoft isn't even making the lion share of its profits on Windows anymore. Probably because many are not upgrading. MS Office is their cash cow now.
When I was marketing technology to business -- it was crucial to be aware of, and conform to, the annual budget/approval cycle of your target market. In those days, most of the companies went through an August-Sepetmber budget/approval cycle (October-November at the latest).
That meant that departments (including IT) would forecast their purchases based on what was available at the time -- or reliably known to be available for the next year.
If that is still true, then I believe that Microsoft has zero chance of hitting the 2012 budget cycle for 2013.
MS has no product, history or track record on which anyone could forecast a business decision to buy and install Windows 8 Tablets...
Would you make that decision if your job/future depended on it?
The bit I'm most looking forward to with win 8 though is apps for pc's. When was the last time you installed a tiny program on a desktop or laptop that did something like show you news for one particular site? Answer probably never, even with the mac app store it's something you don't do, you just visit the website instead. But using win 8 on a laptop I just get the feeling that I would go on the app marketplace and install apps rather than visit websites.
Apple don't have anything to worry about with the iPad, but I get the feeling win 8 is more concerned with android and chrome than anything else. Apple will after all keep profit margins on there devices up, googles all about giving the os away for free and that's and issue for ms. Comparing win 8 to android/chrome though, I don't think ms has an issue. For some reason when they produced android for tablets nobody thought that maby it would be better to get some decent icons designed rather than use ones that look like they came from windows 3.1!
And here's the kicker: it's all a REACTION to market forces that MS was way, way too slow to respond to. Which forces? The ones put in motion by Apple, and which MS competitors are squarely in control of now.
-- you could serve it up on a tablet and call it "chipped beef on toast" -- but it is really the same old "SOS".
Personally can't wait for win8. I just bought an iPad 3 but to be honest it was only because win 8 tablets don't exist yet and android just looks awful.
The bit I'm most looking forward to with win 8 though is apps for pc's. When was the last time you installed a tiny program on a desktop or laptop that did something like show you news for one particular site? Answer probably never, even with the mac app store it's something you don't do, you just visit the website instead. But using win 8 on a laptop I just get the feeling that I would go on the app marketplace and install apps rather than visit websites.
Apple don't have anything to worry about with the iPad, but I get the feeling win 8 is more concerned with android and chrome than anything else. Apple will after all keep profit margins on there devices up, googles all about giving the os away for free and that's and issue for ms. Comparing win 8 to android/chrome though, I don't think ms has an issue. For some reason when they produced android for tablets nobody thought that maby it would be better to get some decent icons designed rather than use ones that look like they came from windows 3.1!
Interesting...
Why do you think you'll buy apps on a Windows tablet when you wouldn't buy them on an iPad -- likely the function will [should] be similar -- even apps like maps or YouTube that are equally accessible through a browser?
What do you think the experience with a Windows tablet will be when web sites and app developers begin to serve pages tailored to exploit the iPad's retina display and graphics... and they will?
The bar has been set higher for tablet display resolution -- will you (and others) be satisfied with second best or almost as good?
This Windows launch is going to be a disaster. What a convoluted mess it already is. No marketing spend is going to save it. IMP
The only "regular" (non-techie) person I have seen use Windows Metro on a phone was completely baffled. Could. Not. Make. It. Work.
(at all).
From the videos I've seen of Windows Metro running on a tablet, it looks good, but seriously complicated. It has the tile desktop which is hard enough to manipulate, but the whole OS is built around a series of basically undiscoverable gestures on the bezel.
Consumers already have troubles with iOS and most find Android even harder. As a techie myself I can appreciate some of the sophistication of Metro, but it's not really consumer friendly IMO. Even if their strategy works and MS corners the market for techies who use tablets, the portion of the market that's too dumb to figure all that sh*t out and prefers iOS is probably a hundred times larger.
Videos you have seen have no tutorials whatsoever. I highly doubt Windows 8 will come with not a single tutorial video. Heck, even OS X Lion came with a tutorial for inverted scrolling. What's so baffling about Windows Phone? What was the person trying to do that was baffling? I'm curious because I use a Windows Phone.
The bar has been set higher for tablet display resolution -- will you (and others) be satisfied with second best or almost as good?
The good Windows tablets will surely have comparable displays to the new iPad. The manufacturers have absolutely no choice now that the iPad has raised the standard.
When do you think Windows 8 Intel tablets will be generally available and:
1) have Acceptable power to run legacy apps
2) have An acceptable touch interface for legacy apps
3) have Acceptable battery life?
4) provide a viable cost/function alternative to a Windows 8 Laptop
From what I understand, there will be no viable Windows 8 Intel tablets before mid 2013 -- if ever.
And, no legacy desktop apps will run on Windows 8 ARM tablets.
I suspect that the iPad will hit 100 million users sometime before Dec 31, 2012.
Intel already has Ultra Low Power SoC that can be used to power Windows 8 tablets. http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/10/26...-with-32nm-soc
The good Windows tablets will surely have comparable displays to the new iPad. The manufacturers have absolutely no choice now that the iPad has raised the standard.
They will have to raise their prices or lose profit margins. They can't compete with Apple's iPad prices now. One could say that more demand will bring down the display price but I'm not so sure it will work that way with these high resolution displays. The demand might just increase the price for a limited supply. These displays aren't that easy to produce. And I suspect Apple has already moved to secure their supply at current pricing. IMO
The good Windows tablets will surely have comparable displays to the new iPad. The manufacturers have absolutely no choice now that the iPad has raised the standard.
Really?
It's been over 2 years and no competitive tablet has been released with a display that even been close to the original iPad.
It's one thing to show one-offs or prototypes and quite another parts for large-scale productions.
We're talking about 10s of millions of devices per year to have a meaningful market penetration.
Where are the Dells, HPs, etc going to get retina-quality displays in any significant quantity -- at any price?
Then, there's the issue of what sizes and resolutions are going to be introduced -- and how will that fragment the Windows Tablet market.
MS has no track record here -- and the OEMS, the usual suspects, have a poor to bad track record with Android tablets.
Do you believe that Sammy can, and will, divert their retina manufacturing so they can release a Windows 8 ARM tablet for $499?
Intel already has Ultra Low Power SoC that can be used to power Windows 8 tablets. http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/10/26...-with-32nm-soc
You do understand the word tease...
When available in quantities of 10s of millions?
Cost?
Power/heat?
Graphics?
Battery life?
Total device cost with retina-class display?
OEMs?
Despite being the biggest fanboy on the planet, I believe innovation is at its best when everyone is bringing ideas to the table(Apple, Microsoft, HP, RIM, ANdroid etc.).
It's a good thing this is an idea table and not a food table, 'cause some of these guys are are looking pretty anorexic.
Do you believe that Sammy can, and will, divert their retina manufacturing so they can release a Windows 8 ARM tablet for $499?
I don't know. But from the path that's being taken with Win8, I do get the impression that MS is taking the tablet market very seriously indeed and will pump in just about as much cash as it takes. Apple certainly has a head start, but MS has more clout and reputation than the various Android manufacturers and will put up a better fight. Of course, those factors didn't help MS very much with Windows Phone! But perhaps MS is fighting a little closer to its own territory with larger devices.