When I saw the new metro look the first time on a smartphon, I thought who knows maybe this might get some traction.
But seeing this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie
made me think OMG what the hell are they thinking at Redmond Wash. Of course if somebody is completely sworn into anything Microsoft, they will try to make this very confusing start screen look like the ultimate solution. Heaven help us all, because in the end many of us will have to deal one way or the other with this OS.
I hope that they work well. I'd love to have a tablet with a full OS that can handle real programs in addition to apps, and which has a full range of software vendors.
If they can keep the costs reasonable, and the performance acceptable, they might have a winner here.
Keep hoping - but wait and see.
I hate to tell you, that you will have to wait a couple of years to see full fledged applications for the tablet version of W.. 8.
The developers will need time.
And see how long it takes for iOS devices with a user base getting bigger than any other OS.
Finally for the iPad there are some dozens of pro-/ prosumer apps, but it took almost 2 years.
The problem is that microsofts actual microsoft produced hardware is pretty good. I had a zune before i got an iphone and i loved it. always worked, was fast and the zune software was great . the zune software is much better then itunes.
IF microsoft actually produced its own computer i am sure they can compete with apple. Microsofts problem is they rather give everything to their partners.
You would think MSFT would pursue that, but it may have not made sense to their operations to actually manufacture hardware. I'm not sure they even make a mouse anymore.
Oh Please... I have tried it out and Windows 8 is a disaster that very poorly integrates Windows 7 and Windows phone OS. Some call it Windows Frankenstein.
Not exactly. The Start SCREEN completely replaces the Start MENU.
I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles. The Mac OS looks ancient in comparison. It's nice to have your whole life laid out for you on one screen without having to actually launch any programs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple copies it in one form or the other when they finally release their replacement for the 30 year old desktop metaphor.
I want to like the new Start screen. The idea of a screen covered in widgets seems interesting to me. Yet, it's so effing ugly. Aesthetically, it just screams Fisher-Price, with a chaotic pile of colored blocks. Again, just considering the functionality, Live Tiles seem pretty cool, but they do offend my sense of style. Can I get used to it, probably.
Gestures on the other hand are entirely new to me. Swiping from an off-screen area to an on-screen area at specific places for specific actions seems weird. Something that may become second-nature on a tablet, may be a pain with keyboard and mouse. Only time will tell how hard it will be to make them second nature.
Isn't that a fair bigger decision than just battery life, though? In that ARM devices won't run any legacy Windows apps?
How many people actually use many more apps than Office? And they've said Office will be availiable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
Finally for the iPad there are some dozens of pro-/ prosumer apps, but it took almost 2 years.
Windows Phone 7 has been gaining apps at an extreamly fast rate, despite the fact there selling hardly any phone. How many more apps do you think people will write for an OS that's installed on basically every PC sold?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
Apple doesn't need to release new hardware to train-wreck the Windows product release.
(A) Apple could just temporarily drop the price of the new iPad by $100 for the holiday season and lower the iPad2 by the same amount. Even if Apple did not do this, the costs to make an x86 based tablet may make it more expensive to produce than the current new iPad.
(B) Apple could release a 6th generation of the iOS that does tricks no one expects it could. This essentially makes the current new iPad as good as a brand new iPad, disrupting any marketing noise Windows Tablets will be making.
(C) A combination of the above A & B.
Most people are already disposed to buy the iPad, just give them another reason to do so and Microsoft will have to hand out concert tickets to any one that darkens their company store doors.
What makes you think Apple want Win8 to fail? Apple arn't ever going to be able to have the entire tablet market so do you think they want Android as a competitor given to hardware manufacturers for free, or Win8 that will reduce the competitons margins?
When I saw the new metro look the first time on a smartphon, I thought who knows maybe this might get some traction.
But seeing this:
made me think OMG what the hell are they thinking at Redmond Wash. Of course if somebody is completely sworn into anything Microsoft, they will try to make this very confusing start screen look like the ultimate solution. Heaven help us all, because in the end many of us will have to deal one way or the other with this OS.
This is no different than the Launchpad in Lion. Sure you start in it as default but if you choose to remain 100% in desktop between apps starts, feel free. But it has the plus of having lives tiles such, so think of it as OS X Dashboard + Launchpad in one scrolling screen (no pages like Launchpad). You can pin apps to your taskbar, just like you do in Windows 7 or how you pin things to quick launch or the start menu in XP, Vista.
Referencing other people about productivity, yes you can be productive on a tablet. Metro will make that easier. Why are we still using a UI (in Windows) that launched in 1995. Yes not all apps will be there, hence the desktop mode and x86. I have a desktop which is more suited for Visual Studio for the moment hence I am more apt to get ARM. There are apps already like WordPress.com in the Consumer Preview. I think just like the iPad you will get Photoshop Lite and other tools, I'm sure companies are working on it as we speak. The other plus is the sync of app data and settings between my eventual tablet and desktop. Sorta like iCloud but with say password saves in the browser or where I am in Cut The Rope.
About drag and drop. I did not try that and I'm in Lion as we speak and can't reboot as in the middle of a project. But Windows 8 does have a central share mechanism that all apps can tap into. Each app will tell what it can share and what it can accept. So I could view pictures in a flicker app and click share on a picture and then select an app that accepts pictures such as an email app.
I do find all this very similar to the reservations about the changes to OS X Lion. Like it or not, both Apple and Microsoft are evolving. I also find Multitasking in tablet to be relevant. I see typical usage as say browsing the web and having an IM app pinned to one side.
And there was one day a computing without the mouse, watch as touch comes everywhere even to the desktop. And don't think about you stretching to touch the screen, let the screen come to you and fold flat on your desk when you need it. This demo product at CES was absolutely amazing.
Window 8 is an absolute nerve racking experience. Here you have a brand new interface that is for the most part a pretty neat UI. I own a Nokia Lumia 800 that I got for free when I extended my contract. So I quickly became a fan of Metro. Regardless of the outlash that will certainly follow this post I think it's one of best mobile OS's that I have seen in a long time.
So when MS released a Consumer Preview I immediatly installed it on my old but still powerfull Lenovo X61 Tablet. The install process was quick and without problems, Windows 8 installed all the drivers properly including Lenovos Finger Scanner. After bootup I was greeted with a really nice UI.
The layout was fresh and everything just made sense. I immediatly started installing apps from the new store, things like Evernote, News 360, Wordpress, you know your basic tablet apps. It wasn't until I installed Googles Chrome browser that the mess that is Windows 8 became apparent. When you start any program that is not Metro native it kicks you back in time to a classic mode. So all the programs that I was excited about using on a tablet eccentric OS like Photoshop, Cad or even the new Office 15 might as well be installed on Windows 7 because that is the experience your getting.
The Start button has been replaced with the Metro home screen. So you are constantly bounced back and fourth. A complete mess and nauseating experience. I hope the ARM version will be Windows 8 saviour in that developers will have to completly write native Metro apps. So there won't be this back and forth between new UI old UI thing that is just so damn annoying.
I will, like every new piece of tech give it a try though. So I am looking foward in buying a Windows 8 ARM tablet, hopefully one from Nokia. So if or when I'm complaining later on this board I will know what I am talking about instead of just being that person who just hates everything that doesn't have an Apple logo on it.
I've noticed a lot of users here are becoming that guy who yells at you to get off his lawn all day instead of getting off the porch to see what else is out there.
[/QUOTE]And there was one day a computing without the mouse, watch as touch comes everywhere even to the desktop. And don't think about you stretching to touch the screen, let the screen come to you and fold flat on your desk when you need it. This demo product at CES was absolutely amazing.[/QUOTE]
Are you nuts? This makes no sense at all. Touch on a desktop can only be used for small amounts of time, not all day in an office. Try holding you hand out in front of you for more than 30 seconds
Also have you actually tried resting a touchscreen on a flat surface and using it for any extended period of time? I have with the iPad and it gives me terrible backache crunched up over the screen. Thats is why touch will never work on the desktop period.
The only realistic ergonomic way touch can work is with a tablet or phone and is the reason why we have all those covers that make the iPad stand up at an incline.
The only way to use a desk top is either with a mouse or a touchpad with a vertical display 18" or so in front of the body.
Not exactly. The Start SCREEN completely replaces the Start MENU.
I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles. The Mac OS looks ancient in comparison. It's nice to have your whole life laid out for you on one screen without having to actually launch any programs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple copies it in one form or the other when they finally release their replacement for the 30 year old desktop metaphor.
A screen full of small tools and live updates and the ability to start applications akin to Apple's own mobile devices? You think Apple will copy Microsoft to do such a thing?
OH WAIT
Start Screen = Spunk baby of Dashboard, Launchpad and Ubuntu Unity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Isn't this Windows 7 with a Metro shell?
Yes. Microsoft Admitted that without the new start screen its just a minor update to Windows 7. So basically, if you buy windows 8, all you're buying is the new Frankenstein user interface.
Its perfect for tablets and tiny laptops. For a desktop its a waste of screen real-estate.
Perhaps the real reason MS is making the metro GUI looks so childish is because in some perverse way they want to make it look like Fischer Price toy thus painting the tablet as an inferior device . Buy a laptop instead" , nah
No actually I think it has more to do with, "oh crap - look what Apple is doing we had better get something out there to compete otherwise we are toast. and as long as we can hype the hell out of it by planting stories in the Windows press about how amazing W8/Metro pig will be and fool enough of our windows folks with false promises about backwards compatibilty that should save our asses until we get our act together until the next window (sic) of opportunity comes around"
They will have a very tough time competing against the iPad and the Kindle. By October the iPad will have a huge lead and I can't imagine how a Windows 8 tablet will catch up.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of the marketing folks are Richmond to design a Piece of Crap and sell it. Just look at Windows! especially when they have so many paid journalists saying things like this:
"I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles"
Perhaps the real reason MS is making the metro GUI looks so childish is beause in some perverse way they want to make it look like Fischer Price toy thus painting the tablet as an inferior device . Buy a laptop instead" , nah
No actually I think it has more to do with, "oh crap - look what Apple is doing we had better get something out there to compete otherwise we are toast. and as long as we can hype the hell out of it by planting stories in the Windows press about how amazing W8/Metro pig will be and fool enough of our windows folks with false promises about backwards compatibilty that should save our ass until we get our act together until the next window (sic) of opportunity comes around"
Its an attempt at Apple/Sony/Nintendo style integration.
All three companies have it done in their own way; Apple has an eco system, Sony have tight hardware integration and Nintendo have complimentary services.
Microsoft seem to think by having Windows, Windows Phone and XBOX all arrive at the party in the same dress will have the same effect, when in reality what we have is a manly man trying too hard, a school girl and an angst ridden teenager (respectively) in one mother of an ugly frock all arriving on the short bus.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of the marketing folks are Richmond to design a Piece of Crap and sell it. Just look at Windows! especially when they have so many paid journalists saying things like this:
"I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles"
I read that article as well.
The first thought in my head was "gee, I wonder how much dopamine Microsoft just injected into that guys neck".
Here's my prediction: ARM-based tablets are a total fake out by Microsoft. They'll either never appear or they'll be quickly dumped on the market and never heard from again, like Chromebooks. Windows 8 is just an update to Microsoft's existing (failed) tablet PC initiative that adds a "media tablet" layer that Microsoft has no intention of developing into a real platform. It's all noise. After the inevitable failure Microsoft will start talking about how x86 tablets will eventually be able to compete with ARM and how Windows 9 will make everything better.
Its an attempt at Apple/Sony/Nintendo style integration.
All three companies have it done in their own way; Apple has an eco system, Sony have tight hardware integration and Nintendo have complimentary services.
Microsoft seem to think by having Windows, Windows Phone and XBOX all arrive at the party in the same dress will have the same effect, when in reality what we have is a manly man trying too hard, a school girl and an angst ridden teenager (respectively) in one mother of an ugly frock all arriving on the short bus.
Well I like it and it's defiantly no more childish looking then iOS.
Comments
But seeing this:
made me think OMG what the hell are they thinking at Redmond Wash. Of course if somebody is completely sworn into anything Microsoft, they will try to make this very confusing start screen look like the ultimate solution. Heaven help us all, because in the end many of us will have to deal one way or the other with this OS.
Windows 8 Tablets out by October, uh? In other news today Big Foot proposed to the Tooth Fairy.
... and dead by November.
I hope that they work well. I'd love to have a tablet with a full OS that can handle real programs in addition to apps, and which has a full range of software vendors.
If they can keep the costs reasonable, and the performance acceptable, they might have a winner here.
Keep hoping - but wait and see.
I hate to tell you, that you will have to wait a couple of years to see full fledged applications for the tablet version of W.. 8.
The developers will need time.
And see how long it takes for iOS devices with a user base getting bigger than any other OS.
Finally for the iPad there are some dozens of pro-/ prosumer apps, but it took almost 2 years.
The problem is that microsofts actual microsoft produced hardware is pretty good. I had a zune before i got an iphone and i loved it. always worked, was fast and the zune software was great . the zune software is much better then itunes.
IF microsoft actually produced its own computer i am sure they can compete with apple. Microsofts problem is they rather give everything to their partners.
You would think MSFT would pursue that, but it may have not made sense to their operations to actually manufacture hardware. I'm not sure they even make a mouse anymore.
http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/app...070349913.html
Oh Please... I have tried it out and Windows 8 is a disaster that very poorly integrates Windows 7 and Windows phone OS. Some call it Windows Frankenstein.
http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft...ily_2012-03-01
http://www.i-programmer.info/profess...n-monster.html
That truly was entertaining to read.
Thanks for the links!!
Not exactly. The Start SCREEN completely replaces the Start MENU.
I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles. The Mac OS looks ancient in comparison. It's nice to have your whole life laid out for you on one screen without having to actually launch any programs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple copies it in one form or the other when they finally release their replacement for the 30 year old desktop metaphor.
I want to like the new Start screen. The idea of a screen covered in widgets seems interesting to me. Yet, it's so effing ugly. Aesthetically, it just screams Fisher-Price, with a chaotic pile of colored blocks. Again, just considering the functionality, Live Tiles seem pretty cool, but they do offend my sense of style. Can I get used to it, probably.
Gestures on the other hand are entirely new to me. Swiping from an off-screen area to an on-screen area at specific places for specific actions seems weird. Something that may become second-nature on a tablet, may be a pain with keyboard and mouse. Only time will tell how hard it will be to make them second nature.
Isn't that a fair bigger decision than just battery life, though? In that ARM devices won't run any legacy Windows apps?
How many people actually use many more apps than Office? And they've said Office will be availiable.
Finally for the iPad there are some dozens of pro-/ prosumer apps, but it took almost 2 years.
Windows Phone 7 has been gaining apps at an extreamly fast rate, despite the fact there selling hardly any phone. How many more apps do you think people will write for an OS that's installed on basically every PC sold?
Apple doesn't need to release new hardware to train-wreck the Windows product release.
(A) Apple could just temporarily drop the price of the new iPad by $100 for the holiday season and lower the iPad2 by the same amount. Even if Apple did not do this, the costs to make an x86 based tablet may make it more expensive to produce than the current new iPad.
(B) Apple could release a 6th generation of the iOS that does tricks no one expects it could. This essentially makes the current new iPad as good as a brand new iPad, disrupting any marketing noise Windows Tablets will be making.
(C) A combination of the above A & B.
Most people are already disposed to buy the iPad, just give them another reason to do so and Microsoft will have to hand out concert tickets to any one that darkens their company store doors.
What makes you think Apple want Win8 to fail? Apple arn't ever going to be able to have the entire tablet market so do you think they want Android as a competitor given to hardware manufacturers for free, or Win8 that will reduce the competitons margins?
"LISTICK ON A PIG"
TILES on top of Windows is it
oh and doesn't x86 running on a tablet need a fan!
Isn't this Windows 7 with a Metro shell?
NO! Windows 7 "sort of works", Windows 8 DOES NOT WORK.
Have been using Toshiba M205 Win XP Tablet with Wacom digitizer since early 2004.
Recently bought a Samsung Series 7 Slate, came with Win7 Pro.
Yesterday I installed Win 8. Smooth install, about one and half hour to install.
Then the nightmare started.
I use Journal and the pen of course extensively on Toshiba M205.
Windows 8 does not have any palm rejection while in Journal. Really?
And with Win 7 the finger touch experience cause me to completely turn that feature off.
The screen software keyboard in Win 8 can not be re-sized. Really? On a screen that is only 768 pixel high? Really?
(Toshiba M205 has 1400 x 1050 screen)
I only used Win 8 for about three hours, and the experience so far is not good.
I can't see why so many are looking forward to Windows 8.
Sent from my iPad 1
When I saw the new metro look the first time on a smartphon, I thought who knows maybe this might get some traction.
But seeing this:
made me think OMG what the hell are they thinking at Redmond Wash. Of course if somebody is completely sworn into anything Microsoft, they will try to make this very confusing start screen look like the ultimate solution. Heaven help us all, because in the end many of us will have to deal one way or the other with this OS.
This is no different than the Launchpad in Lion. Sure you start in it as default but if you choose to remain 100% in desktop between apps starts, feel free. But it has the plus of having lives tiles such, so think of it as OS X Dashboard + Launchpad in one scrolling screen (no pages like Launchpad). You can pin apps to your taskbar, just like you do in Windows 7 or how you pin things to quick launch or the start menu in XP, Vista.
Referencing other people about productivity, yes you can be productive on a tablet. Metro will make that easier. Why are we still using a UI (in Windows) that launched in 1995. Yes not all apps will be there, hence the desktop mode and x86. I have a desktop which is more suited for Visual Studio for the moment hence I am more apt to get ARM. There are apps already like WordPress.com in the Consumer Preview. I think just like the iPad you will get Photoshop Lite and other tools, I'm sure companies are working on it as we speak. The other plus is the sync of app data and settings between my eventual tablet and desktop. Sorta like iCloud but with say password saves in the browser or where I am in Cut The Rope.
About drag and drop. I did not try that and I'm in Lion as we speak and can't reboot as in the middle of a project. But Windows 8 does have a central share mechanism that all apps can tap into. Each app will tell what it can share and what it can accept. So I could view pictures in a flicker app and click share on a picture and then select an app that accepts pictures such as an email app.
I do find all this very similar to the reservations about the changes to OS X Lion. Like it or not, both Apple and Microsoft are evolving. I also find Multitasking in tablet to be relevant. I see typical usage as say browsing the web and having an IM app pinned to one side.
And there was one day a computing without the mouse, watch as touch comes everywhere even to the desktop. And don't think about you stretching to touch the screen, let the screen come to you and fold flat on your desk when you need it. This demo product at CES was absolutely amazing.
So when MS released a Consumer Preview I immediatly installed it on my old but still powerfull Lenovo X61 Tablet. The install process was quick and without problems, Windows 8 installed all the drivers properly including Lenovos Finger Scanner. After bootup I was greeted with a really nice UI.
The layout was fresh and everything just made sense. I immediatly started installing apps from the new store, things like Evernote, News 360, Wordpress, you know your basic tablet apps. It wasn't until I installed Googles Chrome browser that the mess that is Windows 8 became apparent. When you start any program that is not Metro native it kicks you back in time to a classic mode. So all the programs that I was excited about using on a tablet eccentric OS like Photoshop, Cad or even the new Office 15 might as well be installed on Windows 7 because that is the experience your getting.
The Start button has been replaced with the Metro home screen. So you are constantly bounced back and fourth. A complete mess and nauseating experience. I hope the ARM version will be Windows 8 saviour in that developers will have to completly write native Metro apps. So there won't be this back and forth between new UI old UI thing that is just so damn annoying.
I will, like every new piece of tech give it a try though. So I am looking foward in buying a Windows 8 ARM tablet, hopefully one from Nokia. So if or when I'm complaining later on this board I will know what I am talking about instead of just being that person who just hates everything that doesn't have an Apple logo on it.
I've noticed a lot of users here are becoming that guy who yells at you to get off his lawn all day instead of getting off the porch to see what else is out there.
Are you nuts? This makes no sense at all. Touch on a desktop can only be used for small amounts of time, not all day in an office. Try holding you hand out in front of you for more than 30 seconds
Also have you actually tried resting a touchscreen on a flat surface and using it for any extended period of time? I have with the iPad and it gives me terrible backache crunched up over the screen. Thats is why touch will never work on the desktop period.
The only realistic ergonomic way touch can work is with a tablet or phone and is the reason why we have all those covers that make the iPad stand up at an incline.
The only way to use a desk top is either with a mouse or a touchpad with a vertical display 18" or so in front of the body.
Not exactly. The Start SCREEN completely replaces the Start MENU.
I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles. The Mac OS looks ancient in comparison. It's nice to have your whole life laid out for you on one screen without having to actually launch any programs.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple copies it in one form or the other when they finally release their replacement for the 30 year old desktop metaphor.
A screen full of small tools and live updates and the ability to start applications akin to Apple's own mobile devices? You think Apple will copy Microsoft to do such a thing?
OH WAIT
Start Screen = Spunk baby of Dashboard, Launchpad and Ubuntu Unity.
Isn't this Windows 7 with a Metro shell?
Yes. Microsoft Admitted that without the new start screen its just a minor update to Windows 7. So basically, if you buy windows 8, all you're buying is the new Frankenstein user interface.
Its perfect for tablets and tiny laptops. For a desktop its a waste of screen real-estate.
No actually I think it has more to do with, "oh crap - look what Apple is doing we had better get something out there to compete otherwise we are toast. and as long as we can hype the hell out of it by planting stories in the Windows press about how amazing W8/Metro pig will be and fool enough of our windows folks with false promises about backwards compatibilty that should save our asses until we get our act together until the next window (sic) of opportunity comes around"
the sad part is it will probabaly work too
They will have a very tough time competing against the iPad and the Kindle. By October the iPad will have a huge lead and I can't imagine how a Windows 8 tablet will catch up.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of the marketing folks are Richmond to design a Piece of Crap and sell it. Just look at Windows! especially when they have so many paid journalists saying things like this:
"I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles"
Perhaps the real reason MS is making the metro GUI looks so childish is beause in some perverse way they want to make it look like Fischer Price toy thus painting the tablet as an inferior device . Buy a laptop instead" , nah
No actually I think it has more to do with, "oh crap - look what Apple is doing we had better get something out there to compete otherwise we are toast. and as long as we can hype the hell out of it by planting stories in the Windows press about how amazing W8/Metro pig will be and fool enough of our windows folks with false promises about backwards compatibilty that should save our ass until we get our act together until the next window (sic) of opportunity comes around"
Its an attempt at Apple/Sony/Nintendo style integration.
All three companies have it done in their own way; Apple has an eco system, Sony have tight hardware integration and Nintendo have complimentary services.
Microsoft seem to think by having Windows, Windows Phone and XBOX all arrive at the party in the same dress will have the same effect, when in reality what we have is a manly man trying too hard, a school girl and an angst ridden teenager (respectively) in one mother of an ugly frock all arriving on the short bus.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of the marketing folks are Richmond to design a Piece of Crap and sell it. Just look at Windows! especially when they have so many paid journalists saying things like this:
"I've been running the Consumer Preview as the primary OS on my PC and I have to say Microsoft is really on to something with these Live Tiles"
I read that article as well.
The first thought in my head was "gee, I wonder how much dopamine Microsoft just injected into that guys neck".
Its an attempt at Apple/Sony/Nintendo style integration.
All three companies have it done in their own way; Apple has an eco system, Sony have tight hardware integration and Nintendo have complimentary services.
Microsoft seem to think by having Windows, Windows Phone and XBOX all arrive at the party in the same dress will have the same effect, when in reality what we have is a manly man trying too hard, a school girl and an angst ridden teenager (respectively) in one mother of an ugly frock all arriving on the short bus.
Well I like it and it's defiantly no more childish looking then iOS.