A Challenge For The AI Community.

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
I had origionally intended this for Matsu, after he made it clear he thought I was crazy, after one of my posts about alternative energy, the state of the world, the amount of illegal secrecy that has transpired over the past 50 years, and other issues. I however think, that the entire AI community will find this interesting, educational, and hopefully as equally horrifying as I, and many others, find it to be.



This is a project that I support and have been following closely for the past two years, although the research started in 1990. It deals with many unconventional topics but sheds a lot of light on world issues, global environmental problems, the energy crisis, alternative energies, terrorism, and a large host of other very important topics.



I am posting a link to an audio interview (Realplayer) that took place recently (Jan 8th 2003) on the Lou Gentile Show, an international radio program that is carried on AM, FM, Satellite, and the Internet, out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The interview is with Dr. Steven Greer, founder and director of The Disclosure Project, CSETI, & SEAS Power Inc. To Date, this is the best overview of the projects I have heard and I can guarantee you, you don't want to pass this up.



The interview is 2 hours long. All I ask, is that you listen to the first half hour of the program. If you are not interested in the subject matter after this time, shut it off. If you are interested, please, by all means, listen to the whole show. You won't be disappointed.



This is not an attempt at advertising or anything like that. I'm just trying to spread the word on something I deem to be the most important information any one person could aquire. I have read the Disclosure book, I own the 2 hour witness archive video & the CD-ROM given to President Bush, his advisors, and the congress. I watched the May 9th 2001 National Press Club Conference in Washington, live. Dr. Greer is the most credible, most fascinating, and most hard working individual I have ever seen, and I respect his work greatly.



You guys should have tons to talk about on here after listening to this. Take care.



*If this link doesn't work, forget this message.*



<a href="http://media-server.millenianet.com:554/ramgen/tlgsarchives4/tlgs452.rm"; target="_blank">New Direct Link To Interview (Realplayer Format)</a>



[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: lucys_trip ]</p>
«13

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 42
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    Your link doesn't work

    Would you care to explain us, what it's all about ?
  • Reply 2 of 42
    Yes, an abstract would be nice.



    Is this something serious, or is it the energy equivalent of heaven's gate?
  • Reply 3 of 42
    [quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:

    <strong>Your link doesn't work

    Would you care to explain us, what it's all about ?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I changed the link. It should work fine now. I would explain further but I could, quite literally, fill a website full of infomation concerning this, and still not cover everything. I think it is just easier to listen to this interview and then you have the option to study it further if you choose to. For anyone who wants to visit Dr. Greer's websites, you can use the following links:



    <a href="http://www.disclosureproject.org"; target="_blank">The Disclosure Project</a>



    <a href="http://www.seaspower.com"; target="_blank">Space Energy Access Systems Inc.</a>



    <a href="http://www.cseti.org"; target="_blank">CSETI - Centre for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence</a>



    Again, I highly recommend listening to this interview. It is very interesting and very informative and covers a vast array of topics from National Security, World Security, Global Environmental Degradation, World Politics, The Energy Crisis, Advanced Energy & Propulsion Systems, Terrorism at home and abroad, Illegal Secrecy and Suppression, and everything in between, including, most importantly, all of our future's on this planet. The basis of this discussion starts with UFO's but quickly becomes a discussion of the unintended consquences of the secrecy around this subject.



    No, this is not some dillusional rant about lights in the sky. This IS the Real Deal. Hope you check it out.
  • Reply 4 of 42
    No your first link still doesn't work, the other three are all related to Mr Greer- jeez the StoneCutters have really held us back haven't they?
  • Reply 5 of 42
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    1) your first link still doesn't work : it must be a conspiracy

    2) in the others links it speak of mervelous technologies that aren't use due to the world conspiracy : army , governements ,multinational companies, scientifical communitie ...



    Sorry but i don't buy these arguments, Science is an open field with extraordinaries things. If something work , you 'd bet that one companie will use it, even if it will hurt others.



    I am still waiting that an extra terrestrial meet me to give me a magic wand (or an extroardinay tech device) that will cure all my patients.
  • Reply 6 of 42
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    The whole problem with stuff like this is a number of very questionable assumptions:
    • "The Powers that Be" are competent enough and skillful enough to pull off such large scale conspiracies for decades on end.

    • Those who are rich and powerful have any strongly united agenda, rather than, as is often the case, being fiercely competetive. That there wouldn't in fact be a few opportunists among those In The Know ready to get a leg up on their competition by cashing in on these technologies.

    • That, given the size of the organization that would be required for such an enormous task of suppression, no individuals or groups from within have ever, ever, ever managed to have a change of heart and break ranks, producing at least once such astonishing evidence that ranks better than a story in the National Enquirer -- or a crank web site.

    Even if you want to believe that every major news outlet is so thoroughly controlled and policed as to block any solid evidence getting out, how can you believe that in the age of the Internet that someone wouldn't have gotten their hands on something undeniably amazing, like actual, buildable plans for one of these "advanced propulsion" devices, and turned it into PDF files available on hundreds of web sites, soon to be on thousands or even millions of hard drives, where even THEY couldn't get and destroy every copy?



    But wait... there's sophisticated spy tech that THEY built into all of our computers and networks to stop that from happening, right?



    [Edited to fix a typo... really! It's not that THEY got to me and made me supress any secret information that I might have leaked. Just a typo. Believe it -- they know where you live. Bwahahahaha!]



    [ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: shetline ]</p>
  • Reply 7 of 42
    [quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:

    <strong>1) your first link still doesn't work : it must be a conspiracy

    2) in the others links it speak of mervelous technologies that aren't use due to the world conspiracy : army , governements ,multinational companies, scientifical communitie ...



    Sorry but i don't buy these arguments, Science is an open field with extraordinaries things. If something work , you 'd bet that one companie will use it, even if it will hurt others.



    I am still waiting that an extra terrestrial meet me to give me a magic wand (or an extroardinay tech device) that will cure all my patients. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    1) I've tried a new link once again, this one a direct link to the realplayer format of the interview.

    2) I don't believe that you are naive enough to think that scientific study is an open field where if a major breakthrough concerning energy generation or propulsion is discovered, that would terminate a five to seven trillion dollar a year part of the economy linked into Oil, Fossil Fuels, Coal, Nuclear Power, the Internal Combustion Engine and Jet Propulsion, that the people controlling this extraordinary wealth and centralized power in the world would just simply allow these technologies to surface.



    In fact the opposite is true. As far back as the early 1900's with Nichola Tesla, and in the 40's & 50's, Townsend Brown, two especially gifted scientists, both of which had their work stolen by the FBI (which to this day admit this), both of them found ways of extracting large amounts of energy from the space around us using both electromagnetic and electrogravitic effects built with electronics. These devices are known as over-unity energy generation devices, where a certain low level of current powers the device and through these effects accesses whats called the baseline zero point energy field around us, tapping energy from it, and causing the device to output far more power than what is being put into it.



    How much energy is in the space/time around us according to leading physicists in the world? In every cubic inch of space around us there is enough energy, if you could tap it, to run the world for a day. If you follow the scientific journals and papers of the time you will see these findings mentioned quite a bit leading up to the 40's and early 50's and then suddenly it just disappeared. Conspiracy? NO!



    There have been many breakthroughs throughout the decades regarding alternative forms of energy generation as well as ways of just getting 2 or 3 times better mileage out of your car. In fact in the last 50 years there have been several dozen of these devices that have been illegally, and ruthlessly supressed by these massive special interests that want to keep the world on a metered oil economy, or coal fired and Nuclear power plants running. Everyone thinks that we live in this high tech world of computers and integrated circuits, but if you look at the energy sources running these things you will see a huge disconnect. 58% of electricity in the United States is produced by the burning of coal. The same stuff that was being used in the 1700's and 1800's. This is not an accident.



    Some of the same people who control this centralized energy economy, also control the UFO subject. Everyone thinks that the big UFO secret is that we're not alone and thats the only reason its been kept secret. WRONG. The reasons for the secrecy have massive implications for our world and are based on this ruthless and illegal suppression of knowledge and technological advancement.



    Through both human breakthroughs and the study of extraterrestrial vehicles, technologies have been developed and then shelved that would completely eliminate the need for Oil, Coal, Gas, Nuclear Power, and all forms of transportation and propulsion on the planet, while also eliminating most forms of pollution. This would of course end the current $5 - 7,000,000,000,000 (trillion) a year part of the economy linked to these things. That's a lot of zero's. But, thats not the main thing. It would also shift the balance of power in the world.



    Imagine every village in India, the Sahara in Africa, the Amazon, having an abundant energy source, devices for every home, that could be applied to electrification, transportation, propulsion, recycling, farming, etc, etc, with no transmission lines, no burning of oil, next to no waste or pollution, and for very little cost. Not only would it be the biggest renassaince ever in the history of the planet, it would also be the biggest shift of geo-political power ever. There are a billion people in India alone. There are only 600 million people in North America & Europe combined. You do the math.



    This is the result of Dr. Greer's work, a 10 year project. Your a doctor, you can relate. This is not some country hick who put up a website to try and convince the world of a conspiracy. This is a 10 year ER Doctor, former chairman of the department for emergency medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital in North Carolina, and someone who grew up around important people in the aerospace industry (his Uncle was the senior project engineer who built the Lunar Module that took Neil Armstrong to the moon).



    He formed CSETI (Centre for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence) in 1990, and after learning of ongoing events in Belgium where NATO had scrambled 4 Fighter Jets to help track and follow a massive triangular UFO in the skies over eastern Belgium, he was given permission by General DeBrauer (not sure if this is correct spelling) and allowed to go out to those spots with a Voluntary Rapid Response Team. Through CSETI he has been involved in hundreds of ground sightings, some involving interaction, with UFO's and he has multiple photo's and video tape, some of which I have seen.



    In 1993, after realizing the significance of this subject and its far reaching implications, and together with his military contacts thus far he started the Disclosure Project, in an attempt to get a generalized public disclosure of this subject so the organs of government and organs of expressions of the people would be properly informed and would begin to take proper actions.



    At that time he began seeking out people in the military community, corporate sector and other high ranking officials that could prove this subject without a doubt.



    In 1994, he approached the Clinton Administration and briefed Cinton's inner circle and the FBI Director at that time, James Woolsey. What he found was that they all took this subject very seriously, but none of them could get access to it. You can't disclose something that you can't get intelligence on. As he worked his way up through the chain of command over the years, he found this to be true throughout the world.



    As it stands now, Dr. Greer has assembled over 500 high ranking military, corporate, aerospace and scientific witnesses to these projects. They range from Colonels, Generals, Admirals, Air Force Pilots, Civilian Pilots, Air Traffic Controllers, Astronauts, and Cosmonauts, to every branch of the military and armed forces, people who have been on retrieval teams of downed UFO's all over the world, high ranking officials in the FAA, NASA, JPL, Lockheed Skunkworks, FBI, CIA, NSA, NRO, Atlantic Command, British Ministry of Defense, Atomic Energy Commission, Patent Office, Scientists, Engineers, people who have been in charge of launching Nuclear Weapons on orders from the President, who witnessed these UFO's constantly around their bases and on several occasions, the vehicles shut down, in rapid succession, 16-18 ICBM's at a time.



    Does Dr. Greer have one of these people? No, he has half a dozen from one event, with the government documents to back it up.



    I'll give you an example of one of these documents. A Top Secret government document written in 1951, that was accidentally released by the Canadian Government, on a timeline basis, 25 years after it was written, and they didn't catch this one. In it, it states that the US military retrieved an extraterrestrial vehicle and a team, headed up by Dr. Vanabar Bush, who co-ordinated the Manhatten Project in WW2, were assembled to study it. It talks about the technology associated with this craft, and it states, that the UFO subject is the most tightly held information in the United States, exceeding the secrecy of the development of the Hydrogen Bomb. This document was written in 1951. The first ever Hydrogen Bomb wasn't detonated until 1952.



    Dr. Greer has over 2000 documents like this. He also has most of the KGB files on UFO's, a Russian Admiral who has tracked these objects from the Russian Space Command, and all his files, two Russian Astronauts (the equivalent of Neil Armstrong in the US), who witnessed these craft in space, high ranking officials and documents from Spain, Britain, Japan, parts of South America, and many other countries throughout the world. He has 3500 cases involving civilian and military pilots and ALL of this is just the beginning, literally.



    I could go on and on and not cover 1% of Dr. Greer's work to date. All of these people are prepared to testify, under oath in a court of law about what they have witnessed and it is my hope to get people, like you, and others to look at this seriously, instead of with the usual ridicule that surrounds this subject. Sorry this has been so long, but I am just scratching the surface and I hope you actually take a good look at his website, instead of the skimming you obviously did to get the conclusions you have. I also hope the link finally works, but if it doesn't you can link to many interviews from his website.



    Thanks for listening.



    Ryan
  • Reply 8 of 42
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    seems like the trip hasn't ended.







    so does anyone know where this secret information is, or is it all destroyed? couldn't you track down some of this info and release it? techinically you're the only person who can be trusted to release this info and not be under the influence of "the man".



    that'd show 'em.



    [edit:] missed your last post, so you have links for this guy's stuff? how about a copy of that UFO paper? how do you verify that it's real? do you take his word, someone else's word?



    [ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
  • Reply 9 of 42
    [quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:

    <strong>seems like the trip hasn't ended.







    so does anyone know where this secret information is, or is it all destroyed? couldn't you track down some of this info and release it? techinically you're the only person who can be trusted to release this info and not be under the influence of "the man".



    that'd show 'em.



    [edit:] missed your last post, so you have links for this guy's stuff? how about a copy of that UFO paper? how do you verify that it's real? do you take his word, someone else's word?



    [ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes, I have seen this document, and about 350 others. Yes, I take these people at their word. I have read the testimony from 69 of these witnesses and viewed videotape of them and some of these craft, in flight.



    Why do I take these people at their word? Because if 3 of them testifyed at a murder trial in your state, the accused would get the death penalty. Because they are very high ranking officials, many of which are in the military and if they lie in a court of law, they will spend the rest of their life in Fort Levinworth. Because I have veiwed less than one half of 1% of the evidence and it is absolutely astounding. Because these people have been and continue to brief officials in the Pentagon, many members of congress, many members of the Senate, President Bush, members of the UN, etc, etc, etc and have been viewed by over a billion people worldwide, out of the Washington Press Club in 2001, on ABC, CNN, NBC, Washinton Times, Japanese News Agency, Larry King and many other radio show personalities.



    Because, it only takes one Pink Zebra, to prove that there are Pink Zebra's in the world. I am not irrationally skeptical.



    <a href="http://www.disclosureproject.org"; target="_blank">Disclosure Project Website </a>



    <a href="http://www.seaspower.com"; target="_blank">Space Energy Access Systems Inc.</a>



    <a href="http://www.cseti.org"; target="_blank">CSETI Website</a>
  • Reply 10 of 42
    Several things:



    1) As is best, the government was very weak in regard to violating the constitution until the 1950's. If Tesla had this great stuff, and if it worked, he would have sold it to westinghouse. I know that the FBI has files of his, but chances are there are duplicates somewhere. Tesla was a not crazy until late in his life. (of course, his lunacy may have started this whole alternate fuel rumor you're concerned about.)



    2) What is more powerful than the government of the United States? Answer: the population of the united states, and thus the economy of the United states. Not every large corporation is fossil fuel based and corrupt. If a company had a patent on a field generator as you describe, they could make untold riches. Far more than all the oil companies could compensate them with. In fact, there was a book written in the early 50's that used a field generator as a point of focus, and it was an economic commentary regarding the cleanliness of capitalism. Maybe you've read it. It's pretty well known.



    If it's possible, it will exist. No government policy is going to stop anything from happening that would turn such a huge profit.



    -----



    One last thing:

    My friend and I built a gravity powered doo-dad last year. Basically made of parallel plate capacitors that we constructed of aluminum foil and some dielectric junk from the basement of the engineering building. It worked fine. It hovered in the air when powered. . . Though it did make a whoopee cushion sort of noise. We measured the thrust, which from a classical physics point of view should be coming from ion breeze. Since the device was about 200g, it should take 200g of force to hover. Well, a sensitive scale detected no downward force (thrust), so we were content that it was a gravity powered apparatus as advertised.



    The bottom-line: it requires a tremendous amount of power to get these things working. we had it wired to a sizeable power supply. The whole "zeropoint" reactor thing is clearly not ready.



    [ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</p>
  • Reply 11 of 42
    [quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:

    <strong>Several things:



    1) As is best, the government was very weak in regard to violating the constitution until the 1950's. If Tesla had this great stuff, and if it worked, he would have sold it to westinghouse. I know that the FBI has files of his, but chances are there are duplicates somewhere. Tesla was a not crazy until late in his life. (of course, his lunacy may have started this whole alternate fuel rumor you're concerned about.)



    2) What is more powerful than the government of the United States? Answer: the population of the united states, and thus the economy of the United states. Not every large corporation is fossil fuel based and corrupt. If a company had a patent on a field generator as you describe, they could make untold riches. Far more than all the oil companies could compensate them with. In fact, there was a book written in the early 50's that used a field generator as a point of focus, and it was an economic commentary regarding the cleanliness of capitalism. Maybe you've read it. It's pretty well known.



    If it's possible, it will exist. No government policy is going to stop anything from happening that would turn such a huge profit.



    -----



    One last thing:

    My friend and I built a gravity powered doo-dad last year. Basically made of parallel plate capacitors that we constructed of aluminum foil and some dielectric junk from the basement of the engineering building. It worked fine. It hovered in the air when powered. . . Though it did make a whoopee cushion sort of noise. We measured the thrust, which from a classical physics point of view should be coming from ion breeze. Since the device was about 200g, it should take 200g of force to hover. Well, a sensitive scale detected no downward force (thrust), so we were content that it was a gravity powered apparatus as advertised.



    The bottom-line: it requires a tremendous amount of power to get these things working. we had it wired to a sizeable power supply. The whole "zeropoint" reactor thing is clearly not ready.



    [ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I'm going to attempt to clear up a couple of typical assumptions that when studying this issue are clearly false.



    I find it is normal to assume (I did a couple years ago) that the government is involved in a mass conspiracy or that the government is withholding information regarding UFO's and advanced energy and propulsion systems. This is a false statement. 99% of all people in government know no more about these subjects as the average guy on the street.



    For example, and this was actually a mistake on my part which I apologize for, that I made in one of my previous posts. President Clinton and his inner circle was briefed on this subject in 1993 by Dr. Steven Greer and his team of military advisors and personnel at the time. This included a 5 hour meeting with James Woolsey, Clintons Director of Central Intelligence. (I think in a previous post I said FBI director, sorry). What Dr. Greer thought immediately must be a lie, that neither the Director or the President could gain access to this subject, he later found out was true.



    It has been made clear through Dr. Greer's experiences briefing and talking with these high level officials, that they have no access to this information.



    Example: A recent CIA Director was approached by an Astronaut who had an experience where he handled an undeniable piece of evidence related to this subject. He had the exact dates, the signed forms and all the related documentation available to this Director and the Director spent an enormous amount of personal time and a large sum of money from the Department Of Defence to find this piece of evidence, and he was told, not that it didn't exist, but that he was not permitted access.



    This has happened with the highest level of officials in government, worldwide, not just in the US.



    The secret is not kept and controlled by government, and it doesn't encompass all special interest groups. The people who REALLY KNOW what is going on with this is only about 50 individuals and families at the top of the pyramid, and there is a policy group of about 300 and they are international. For more information on this, ask, and I'll look it up. I have a list of some of the people involved and how it generally works.



    You asked what is more powerful than the US Government? My response would be a Transcontinental Entity that has dealt with these subjects for at least the past 50 years, probably more like 60 to 70 years, and this group has immense wealth, power, knowledge, and military assets.



    Why has the War on Drugs never been successful? Quite simply because the druglords have more money and more power than the people fighting to stop it.



    As for your science project, which sounded pretty cool, by the way, this is definately not my field of expertise, I have just elaborated on what I have learned through extensive research into these projects. I will mention though, that many of the energy and propulsion systems that are locked away in Unacknowledged Special Access Projects within the US and abroad were origionally built from studying human ideas and concepts, and then were potentiated by studying extraterrestrial vehicles that were retrieved. These are very powerful devices that go way beyond conventional physics.



    *Just to make a quick point, the crash at Roswell was by far not the only one in US history. It is however the only one that was blundered. There have been several dozen crashes, most of which were a result of these UFO's being shot down. I can say that Roswell was no accident, and its no accident they were in that area, only a few miles from the only bomber squadrant at that time.*



    Back to these energy and propulsion devices, these are more along the lines of things that could definitively replace all current technology, but there have been people throughout history who have built systems capable of this on a lower level. They have been obscure and in the shadows and that is why these people have been able to be bought out, threatened, have had there patents revoked, had there devices seized or stolen, and in some cases, they have been killed, to keep this secret.



    All I really ask, is that people seriously look into Dr. Greer's work. He is the real deal, and he has all the assets to blow this whole thing wide open if the public would get behind it in a serious way. On his website, he offers a fax service, free of charge, where you can create a custom letter to be faxed into your Congressman's office and the Presidents office, requesting open hearings on these matters, where these 500+ high ranking officials can be put under oath in a court of law and testify to there direct, first hand knowledge and experience with these super secret projects. They can also present their supporting government documents, photos, videos, etc. Thousands of letters have already gone in, but with the war on Terrorism in full swing its going to take a lot of shouting.



    [ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: lucys_trip ]</p>
  • Reply 12 of 42
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by lucys_trip:

    <strong>





    2) I don't believe that you are naive enough to think that scientific study is an open field where if a major breakthrough concerning energy generation or propulsion is discovered, that would terminate a five to seven trillion dollar a year part of the economy linked into Oil, Fossil Fuels, Coal, Nuclear Power, the Internal Combustion Engine and Jet Propulsion, that the people controlling this extraordinary wealth and centralized power in the world would just simply allow these technologies to surface.



    .



    Ryan</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I don't think that you are naive enough to think that if a such wonderfull technologie exist, China or Russia did not stole or use it for their own purposes. These two countries do not really care of the interest of the world economy.



    [quote]

    I find it is normal to assume (I did a couple years ago) that the government is involved in a mass conspiracy or that the government is withholding information regarding UFO's and advanced energy and propulsion systems. This is a false statement. 99% of all people in government know no more about these subjects as the average guy on the street. <hr></blockquote>



    I don't fin normal to assume this. We live in a democratia, with various people fighting each others (politicians) and a free press. Secret does not resit to this weight. Recently we have learn the existence of the secret project Echelon. Nobody , org or governement is strong enought to hide a secret forever.
  • Reply 13 of 42
    well, anyway, I wish Dr. Greer luck. If it's a load of BS (or at least a partial load), then we're no worse off. If gravity engines can work on current power supplies, cool. (still a bit non-understanding about how to pull-out vacuum energy. Top physicists have been working on this for years in theory. It's pretty easy to find research if you look for it)



    Anyway, the book to which I refered, if you didn't know already, is Atlas Shrugged. In it there's a somewhat twisted plot-line where the design of a vacuum motor gets shelved for dopey, "government" reasons. It's written by Ayn Rand, so of course the government figures are real buffoons, and there are plenty of cold, poorly scripted adulterous exchanges. You might like.
  • Reply 14 of 42
    I'd really like to know more about this Transcontinental Entity. Could you tell me more about it?
  • Reply 15 of 42
    [quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:

    <strong>



    I don't think that you are naive enough to think that if a such wonderfull technologie exist, China or Russia did not stole or use it for their own purposes. These two countries do not really care of the interest of the world economy. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    You need to read my previous posts. I have already addressed this issue. The people keeping this secret (which was decided back in the 50's, during the Eisenhower Administration), are an international group with immense wealth, power, technologies, and military assets far exceeding anything I could ever imagine.



    Lets take an example of this: "As the senior counsel for the Senate Appropriations Committee told Dr. Steven Greer, Director of the Disclosure Project, in 1994, the varsity team of illegal black projects - projects that he could not penetrate with a subpoena or a top-secret clearance - deal with the UFO subject. This man also admitted that, conservatively, such black, illegal projects were in the $40 billion to $80 billion range annually."



    How about another example: "A shadowy government, with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fund raising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of the National interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself." - Senator Daniel Inouye, United States Senator



    If you don't believe that an entity with this amount of power and money can't keep a secret, a group of people who are completely outside the law and can handle these subjects any way they see fit, up to and including intimidation and murder, I can't believe you've actually spent any substantial time living in this world. Yes, it is possible and Yes, that is what has happened.



    [quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:

    <strong>



    I don't fin normal to assume this. We live in a democratia, with various people fighting each others (politicians) and a free press. Secret does not resit to this weight. Recently we have learn the existence of the secret project Echelon. Nobody , org or governement is strong enought to hide a secret forever </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Are you seriously kidding me? You actually believe that the US has a free press? The US has the most corrupt and controlled press on the planet, exceeding that of the Chinese Media.



    One of Steven Greer's witnesses, Daniel Sheehan, who is a lawyer, who has presented many high level cases to the Supreme Court, including the Iran Contra case, the Karen Soakwood case, and the New York Times Pentagon Papers Case, is also cheif counsel to the Disclosure Project. When he was working on the Pentagon Papers case, he personally saw a document, dated 1971, listing the names of 43 NSA people who were top level figures on the worlds media, and it was their sole responsibility to spike, spin or kill stories that the National Security State didn't want out. The UFO subject is number one by far.



    When the Disclosure Project launched the first part of their public strategy on May 9th, 2001 to raise public awareness on this issue, they presented 21 of these high level military and corporate witnesses, lead by Dr. Greer at the National Press Club in Washington, DC. Sara McClendon, the famous Whitehouse correspondent helped to set this up. There were 22 network camera's there, and it was broadcast live on the internet, where 400,000 people attempted to view it online (the largest viewed press conference in the history of the internet). For the first hour of the press conference, an external "entity" used sophisticated jamming to prevent it from being viewed online, and this was confirmed by the sites host who hosts events for both CNN and the Pentagon.



    ABC wanted to do a large expose on the conference but a top level ABC Executive was quoted as saying "They wouldn't let us".



    The press conference was broadcast on the news worldwide and the Chinese News Agency, among other international news agencies were the only ones to do any accurate reporting. The US media spun it in so many different ways it was absolutely shameful. Also, it went on for the day and then off, completely disappeared from the media eye, and consequently, the public eye.



    I realize that this is a hard subject to digest and you maybe just are unable to personally accept it, but your going to have to eventually. The world as it stands right now cannot deal for very much longer with the aftermath of this secrecy and suppression.



    People at the Department of Energy have admitted privately that if we don't have these alternate energy devices coming off assembly lines like sausages by the first half of 2004, you may as well dig a hole and climb in it because its not going to matter, we will be out of time, both from an environmental point of view and an oil supply point of view. (And No, wind and solar will never be able to run the world.) This is the case because you need a 10-20 year lead time to get these technologies under the hood of your car and running your house and thats about how much time we have left at the rate of depletion of the oil supplies and the rate of decay of the biosphere.



    Also, as bad as all this is, the deeper you dig into all of this, the more you find that the energy issue is really quite a small issue compared to other more damning things that are crippling our future.
  • Reply 16 of 42
    [quote]Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah:

    <strong>I'd really like to know more about this Transcontinental Entity. Could you tell me more about it?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Sure, just give me a day to put it together and I'll try and post it tonight or tomorrow at the latest. In the meantime, you should visit:



    <a href="http://www.disclosureproject.org"; target="_blank">The Disclosure Project Website</a>



    Go into "Media Gallery" and click on "Audio". If you want to listen to different interviews with Dr. Greer I would recommend scrolling to the bottom of the page and starting with the first one.



    If my link posted on my first thread is not working for some reason (it works on my PC), anyone can go to the Disclosure Project website, go into "News/Updates" and click on "Upcoming Events". Click on "Radio/TV Appearances" at the top of the page and it will take you to the interview I keep speaking of in this thread.



    I'll try and get that info posted for you as soon as possible.
  • Reply 17 of 42
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by lucys_trip:

    <strong>



    Are you seriously kidding me? You actually believe that the US has a free press? The US has the most corrupt and controlled press on the planet, exceeding that of the Chinese Media.



    .</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes i am naive i believe it. And i am stupid enough to think that US press is one hundred more free than the chinese press.



    [quote] You need to read my previous posts. I have already addressed this issue. The people keeping this secret (which was decided back in the 50's, during the Eisenhower Administration), are an international group with immense wealth, power, technologies, and military assets far exceeding anything I could ever imagine. <hr></blockquote>



    Since when Chinese and russian secret agencie works with the occidental secret services ?



    It's easy to make such assertions without giving any proofs , explaining that they are not avalaible because it's a well hidden secret.
  • Reply 18 of 42
    [quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:

    <strong>well, anyway, I wish Dr. Greer luck. If it's a load of BS (or at least a partial load), then we're no worse off. If gravity engines can work on current power supplies, cool. (still a bit non-understanding about how to pull-out vacuum energy. Top physicists have been working on this for years in theory. It's pretty easy to find research if you look for it)



    Anyway, the book to which I refered, if you didn't know already, is Atlas Shrugged. In it there's a somewhat twisted plot-line where the design of a vacuum motor gets shelved for dopey, "government" reasons. It's written by Ayn Rand, so of course the government figures are real buffoons, and there are plenty of cold, poorly scripted adulterous exchanges. You might like.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Thanks for the book title. I find though, that a lot of the information pertaining to this subject that is available for pulic viewing is far more interesting than any fiction novel.



    I'd like for you to keep in mind that if Dr. Greer is perpetrating a hoax, he will lose his license to practice medicine, and, if a lot of these military officials are lying, many who are still on active duty, they will be sent to prison.



    I will say again though, it only takes one pink zebra to prove there are pink zebras in the world. If only one of these over 500 high level officials is telling the truth, then the case is proven.



    As for the technologies, if you want to private message me with an email address, I can attempt to send you some materials you would probably understand better than I do, off the CD-ROM I have that is given to members of the scientific community and key members of Congress.



    Let me know.
  • Reply 19 of 42
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by lucys_trip:

    <strong>



    I'd like for you to keep in mind that if Dr. Greer is perpetrating a hoax, he will lose his license to practice medicine, and, if a lot of these military officials are lying, many who are still on active duty, they will be sent to prison.



    .</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Unfortunately, at least in France there is a lot of MD who are perpetrating hoax, and not a lot loose their licenses.



    And one pink panther is not sufficiant to proove that the 500 hundreds pinks panthers exist. Perhaps the FBI hide some secrets at a time, but it does not mean that these tech are so good as they pretend to be.



    The water motor exist and work, but that does not mean it worth to be industrialized.
  • Reply 20 of 42
    "The people keeping this secret (which was decided back in the 50's, during the Eisenhower Administration), are an international group with immense wealth, power, technologies, and military assets far exceeding anything I could ever imagine."

    BOLLOCKS
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