As a pro user myself I hope you're right but I honestly don't think that this kind of sentiment even comes into Apple's equation. It's all about the numbers. If the MP doesn't sell in sufficient numbers they will axe it. Ok they'll probably spin some crap about how you don't need one anymore coz the MBP or iMac have pro-like specs these days. Apple is a machine these days.
They killed Xserve leaving a lot of people high and dry. Many of those companies would have to go back to Windows Server and retrain their staff.
True, and I am not saying Apple isn't sharply focussed on the bottom line, but the x-serve would never have create much in the way of halo effect. I really don't think people know or care much about what goes on in post production houses or graphics studios, but there is a reason people are under the impression creatives use Macs. Also the more creatives are exposed to Macs the more Macs will filter out through their work. Just about every TV or magazine ad that features a computer features a Mac (easily recognized even when disguised). I don't think its a 'sentiment' as much as it is an area I think Apple would like to stay in, in spite of it not being a huge money spinner.
There are even fewer people who need OS X Server than need a Mac Pro. OS X Server is essentially a set of management tools for people who don't know anything about UNIX. Technically speaking, any Mac can be configured as a server if you know your way around the command line. However, if you do know your way around the command line and you need a UNIX server you would probably not choose OS X anyway. Apple should kill OS X Server. It is by far the most useless product they sell since they don't make any rack mounted hardware.
There are small businesses that rely on OSX server. I am one of them.
Yes they may be few in numbers but they support a larger group of Mac clients.
If Apple does keep the 13" MB Pro around, I honestly don't think it will get a discreet GPU. If anything, the biggest things differentiating the 13" MB Pro and the 13" MB Air is that the Pro machine will have a quad-core processor and be expandable to 8GB of RAM.
Would there be any market for a high end 13 inch laptop?
With a super CPU, huge amounts of RAM and hot shit video?
Or is it really true that nobody gets a 13 inch unless they are cheap?
Interesting. Does it integrate with your digital x-rays?
No. I don't have a digital x-ray machine yet. Many don't integrate well with Mac systems.
I am a specialist and get many x-rays sent to me electronically as jpeg files. These I just attach to the EHR. When I get imaging sent to me in another format I can usually, but not always, open it and view it using Osirix. Usually this imaging comes to me on DVDs.
While others are hoping that the new iMacs come sans the optical drive, I hope they keep it. Its no a huge deal if they don't, I'll just buy an external drive. But I like having less clutter in my treatment rooms and an external drive works against this.
I have. Windows is not an option. That leaves me with either A) building a hackintosh, waiting for the new iMac or C) waiting for Apple to officially kill or refresh the Mac Pro. So the problem for me is the "not knowing". I can't pull the trigger on a new iMac until I know for certain what Apple will do with the Mac Pro.
Agreed. Uncertainty is a business risk...particularly when a lack of data "freezes" you from makinga quality (well informed) near term decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
Tell me what iOS development tasks cannot be done on an iMac.
Probably all of it, but that misses the point. The point is that the responsiveness of the hardware has an impact on the developer's productivity...and studies have shown that the negative effect of poor responsiveness has a progressively nonlinear impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
Would there be any market for a high end 13 inch laptop?
With a super CPU, huge amounts of RAM and hot shit video?
Or is it really true that nobody gets a 13 inch unless they are cheap?
I'd likely buy one to finally replace my loaded 12" G4 PowerBook, but you're probably right that the majority of buyers are probably more cost-sensitive.
No. I don't have a digital x-ray machine yet. Many don't integrate well with Mac systems.
I am a specialist and get many x-rays sent to me electronically as jpeg files. These I just attach to the EHR. When I get imaging sent to me in another format I can usually, but not always, open it and view it using Osirix. Usually this imaging comes to me on DVDs.
While others are hoping that the new iMacs come sans the optical drive, I hope they keep it. Its no a huge deal if they don't, I'll just buy an external drive. But I like having less clutter in my treatment rooms and an external drive works against this.
FYI
There is an excellent picture archiving and communication system (PACS) server solution for Mac that integrates exceedingly well with OSiriX which is free as well. Let me know if you need any assistance (gratis) when you are selecting a digital solution as this is my field of expertise (digital radiography and PACS rather than dental although I have assisted dental and veterinary clinics).
Macs are extremely popular amongst physicians, dentists, optometrists and other healthcare professionals who often use OS X Server. Additionally, there is a thriving small business market for OS X Server.
i dont think you know what youre talking about. for AV professionals many of those higs are necessities for which there are no easy replacements.
You mean the ports? They will still exist on the Thunderbolt display and 3rd party docking solutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So what kind of time frame are we expecting for the new machines?
The chips arrive April 29th so likely the first week in May.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo
My biggest hope is for the 13" to really earn that pro moniker with discreet graphics and a quad core CPU like its older siblings. Without the optical drive they have a lot more space for thermal dissipation and extra battery capacity to make up for the higher power draw.
If you put the new 13" MBP and 13" Air side by side, they wouldn't differ significantly enough to justify selling both. I don't believe they will put a quad-core i7 inside a 13" Air chassis alongside a dedicated GPU.
It seems far more likely to me they'd drop the 13" MBP and replace it with a 13" Ivy Bridge Air starting with 256GB SSD, dual-core Ivy Bridge with HD 4000 GPU. They'd probably move away from ULV chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
I don't know how a MM server would work for someone who has more demanding needs.
They'd probably just buy more than one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Apple should kill OS X Server.
I'd say just integrate the features into OS X. Then when someone turns on the web server, they get the benefits of OS X Server.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macbook Pro
ow did this become a discussion of the MacPro? I thought only MacBook Pro was mentioned in the article.
It was something about the MBP being the expected upgrade path for some Mac Pro owners after its discontinuation. They'll have to migrate to something so the MBP and iMac are the obvious candidates.
There is an excellent picture archiving and communication system (PACS) server solution for Mac that integrates exceedingly well with OSiriX which is free as well. .
What is it? Generally if the image is a JPEG file I attach it directly to the EHR file. But I would be interested in knowing the options available.
I agree that Macs are gaining in popularity amongst US health care professionals. My billing software is MacPractice and I am under the impression that they have seen a steady and consistent increase in their business over the past few years that has corresponded with the general increase in Mac popularity over the last few years. I also use SpringCharts EHR and I have been told by representatives there that 20% of their user base are Macs. I would hate to see Apple abandon OSX server as this would jeopardize the future of these apps on the Mac platform.
And I don't think the Mac Pro tower will be discontinued. If nothing else, Apple cares about iOS development, and some developers will want a proper workstation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
What's wrong with the iMac as a developers workstation?
All these years I've been using an iMac for iOS development and I never got the memo.
Makes sense to get a MacPro for iOS dev work since an iMac doesn't have anywhere near the horsepower necessary to run an iOS ARM app in emulation right?? </sarcasm>
I think a Mac Pro station would come in handy not for iOS directly, but for those graphics-intensive iOS apps where you want to render the images on a fast system like a MacPro using photoshop. I can see that easily. For iOS/Xcode work though, any Mac is sufficient imho.
There's nothing wrong with it per se. But iOS development is very iterative: often you make a small change, fire up the simulator, test it out, make another small change, etc. Perhaps more so than other development (such as server side) due to the desire to get the GUI perfect in iOS apps.
If that cycle can be sped up by just a few seconds each time it could make a big difference to how many times the developer tweaks a particular feature before getting fed up and deciding it's "good enough." Multiply that by a thousand developers making a thousand apps and the overall quality of iOS software could be effected by having the best available dev box a few seconds slower than it could have been.
This makes the very wrong assumption that people who are developers are only coding on Mac Pros. Which is not the case. iMacs, laptops and Minis are regularly used as it is. Removing the Pro would only increase time for those who replace the Pro w/something less efficient. As the Pro already makes up much less of the market than any other Apple system...
What is it? Generally if the image is a JPEG file I attach it directly to the EHR file. But I would be interested in knowing the options available.
I agree that Macs are gaining in popularity amongst US health care professionals. My billing software is MacPractice and I am under the impression that they have seen a steady and consistent increase in their business over the past few years that has corresponded with the general increase in Mac popularity over the last few years. I also use SpringCharts EHR and I have been told by representatives there that 20% of their user base are Macs. I would hate to see Apple abandon OSX server as this would jeopardize the future of these apps on the Mac platform.
I'm in the 3D medical imaging business and education field as well. Kind of interesting to see this discussion here even though it's way off topic. I'm a specialist in digital x-ray and going off on a tangent so... I think I'll give this OSiriX a try since it is open source. Our software currently is all Windows based and ties into TDO which is a comprehensive software platform for dental practices.
Even if Apple did abandon the Server, can't you just install those packages on any Mac and simply enable all the file sharing configurations necessary? The new Lion Server is just some add on management tools to the regular Lion version.
I'm in the 3D medical imaging business and education field as well. Kind of interesting to see this discussion here even though it's way off topic. I'm a specialist in digital x-ray and going off on a tangent so... I think I'll give this OSiriX a try since it is open source. Our software currently is all Windows based and ties into TDO which is a comprehensive software platform for dental practices.
Osirix is excellent. I have radiologist friends at the hospital that have Macs at home and feel that Osirix is as good as the Windows PACS software they use at the hospital. Its free so you ought to give it a test drive. I bet you'll be impressed by it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Even if Apple did abandon the Server, can't you just install those packages on any Mac and simply enable all the file sharing configurations necessary?
I don't know. I suspect that those vendors might just write a server version in Windows or Linux that the Mac clients could access the files to. This has a real downside for me as I currently do most of the administration of my computers. Adding another platform just makes that more difficult. OSX server once set up (I did not do this, I had an outside consultant do this for me) is easy to administer. I also would loose some of the advantages of OSX. Example; I have an automator script that helps me backup my data. Moving to another platform means having to replace that workflow with a Linux or Windows solution. I'm sure that they exist but I would have to discover it and it may not be free like automator is on OSX.
I'm a real fan of OSX server for small business. I think its under-appreciated.
The chips arrive April 29th so likely the first week in May.
.
Sooo.. a new, very different form factor for MacBook Pro and no 'special' announcement? Just shows up in the store one day? Seems odd. Would Apple have a special event one month before WWDC?
Tell me what iOS development tasks cannot be done on an iMac.
Probably all of it, but that misses the point. The point is that the responsiveness of the hardware has an impact on the developer's productivity...and studies have shown that the negative effect of poor responsiveness has a progressively nonlinear impact.
Just put lots of RAM and an SSD in RAM iMac and it will fly as a developer workstation, to the point you will have a very hard time noticing any difference with a 12 core Mac Pro. I did it a few weeks ago with my 2010 quad core i7 iMac, and I can only say the machine feels like something completely different for devlopment work. Compilation, debugging, starting the iOS simulator, it's all near instantaneous.
Hardly surprising if you think about it, since almost all typical development tasks are decidedly I/O bound, so if you have a decent CPU (which all the current iMacs have), lots of RAM and a fast SSD (I used a Samsung 830), there is very little to gain by throwing more hardware and money at it by buying a Mac Pro. We've long passed the point that development work requires extreme high-end hardware.
Comments
As a pro user myself I hope you're right but I honestly don't think that this kind of sentiment even comes into Apple's equation. It's all about the numbers. If the MP doesn't sell in sufficient numbers they will axe it. Ok they'll probably spin some crap about how you don't need one anymore coz the MBP or iMac have pro-like specs these days. Apple is a machine these days.
They killed Xserve leaving a lot of people high and dry. Many of those companies would have to go back to Windows Server and retrain their staff.
True, and I am not saying Apple isn't sharply focussed on the bottom line, but the x-serve would never have create much in the way of halo effect.
There are even fewer people who need OS X Server than need a Mac Pro. OS X Server is essentially a set of management tools for people who don't know anything about UNIX. Technically speaking, any Mac can be configured as a server if you know your way around the command line. However, if you do know your way around the command line and you need a UNIX server you would probably not choose OS X anyway. Apple should kill OS X Server. It is by far the most useless product they sell since they don't make any rack mounted hardware.
There are small businesses that rely on OSX server. I am one of them.
Yes they may be few in numbers but they support a larger group of Mac clients.
If Apple does keep the 13" MB Pro around, I honestly don't think it will get a discreet GPU. If anything, the biggest things differentiating the 13" MB Pro and the 13" MB Air is that the Pro machine will have a quad-core processor and be expandable to 8GB of RAM.
Would there be any market for a high end 13 inch laptop?
With a super CPU, huge amounts of RAM and hot shit video?
Or is it really true that nobody gets a 13 inch unless they are cheap?
Anyway, I am happily waiting for:
15" Retina Display MacBook Pro
quad-core Intel Ivy Bridge core-i7 3770T (2.5 GHz)
8 GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM memory
512GB solid state drive
AMD Radeon 7000 series (28 nm process) (4k resolution capable)
That would be a nice machine.
How much would you expect it to cost?
Yes they may be few in numbers but they support a larger group of Mac clients.
I guess you are using iCal Server so that you can schedule meetings among the staff members. What other services do you use that are Mac specific?
I guess you are using iCal Server so that you can schedule meetings among the staff members. What other services do you use that are Mac specific?
I use a dental billing and electronic medical record software that are both client/server packages.
I use a dental billing and electronic medical record software that are both client/server packages.
Interesting. Does it integrate with your digital x-rays?
All they know is Britney Spears and Tom Cruise.
Really? Those are the two you use to make a reference to popular culture?
I'm 55 years old and even I know that is a hopelessly out of date example.
Interesting. Does it integrate with your digital x-rays?
No. I don't have a digital x-ray machine yet. Many don't integrate well with Mac systems.
I am a specialist and get many x-rays sent to me electronically as jpeg files. These I just attach to the EHR. When I get imaging sent to me in another format I can usually, but not always, open it and view it using Osirix. Usually this imaging comes to me on DVDs.
While others are hoping that the new iMacs come sans the optical drive, I hope they keep it. Its no a huge deal if they don't, I'll just buy an external drive. But I like having less clutter in my treatment rooms and an external drive works against this.
I have. Windows is not an option. That leaves me with either A) building a hackintosh,
Agreed. Uncertainty is a business risk...particularly when a lack of data "freezes" you from makinga quality (well informed) near term decision.
Tell me what iOS development tasks cannot be done on an iMac.
Probably all of it, but that misses the point. The point is that the responsiveness of the hardware has an impact on the developer's productivity...and studies have shown that the negative effect of poor responsiveness has a progressively nonlinear impact.
Would there be any market for a high end 13 inch laptop?
With a super CPU, huge amounts of RAM and hot shit video?
Or is it really true that nobody gets a 13 inch unless they are cheap?
I'd likely buy one to finally replace my loaded 12" G4 PowerBook, but you're probably right that the majority of buyers are probably more cost-sensitive.
-hh
No. I don't have a digital x-ray machine yet. Many don't integrate well with Mac systems.
I am a specialist and get many x-rays sent to me electronically as jpeg files. These I just attach to the EHR. When I get imaging sent to me in another format I can usually, but not always, open it and view it using Osirix. Usually this imaging comes to me on DVDs.
While others are hoping that the new iMacs come sans the optical drive, I hope they keep it. Its no a huge deal if they don't, I'll just buy an external drive. But I like having less clutter in my treatment rooms and an external drive works against this.
FYI
There is an excellent picture archiving and communication system (PACS) server solution for Mac that integrates exceedingly well with OSiriX which is free as well. Let me know if you need any assistance (gratis) when you are selecting a digital solution as this is my field of expertise (digital radiography and PACS rather than dental although I have assisted dental and veterinary clinics).
Macs are extremely popular amongst physicians, dentists, optometrists and other healthcare professionals who often use OS X Server. Additionally, there is a thriving small business market for OS X Server.
i dont think you know what youre talking about. for AV professionals many of those higs are necessities for which there are no easy replacements.
You mean the ports? They will still exist on the Thunderbolt display and 3rd party docking solutions.
So what kind of time frame are we expecting for the new machines?
The chips arrive April 29th so likely the first week in May.
My biggest hope is for the 13" to really earn that pro moniker with discreet graphics and a quad core CPU like its older siblings. Without the optical drive they have a lot more space for thermal dissipation and extra battery capacity to make up for the higher power draw.
If you put the new 13" MBP and 13" Air side by side, they wouldn't differ significantly enough to justify selling both. I don't believe they will put a quad-core i7 inside a 13" Air chassis alongside a dedicated GPU.
It seems far more likely to me they'd drop the 13" MBP and replace it with a 13" Ivy Bridge Air starting with 256GB SSD, dual-core Ivy Bridge with HD 4000 GPU. They'd probably move away from ULV chips.
I don't know how a MM server would work for someone who has more demanding needs.
They'd probably just buy more than one.
Apple should kill OS X Server.
I'd say just integrate the features into OS X. Then when someone turns on the web server, they get the benefits of OS X Server.
ow did this become a discussion of the MacPro? I thought only MacBook Pro was mentioned in the article.
It was something about the MBP being the expected upgrade path for some Mac Pro owners after its discontinuation. They'll have to migrate to something so the MBP and iMac are the obvious candidates.
Anyway, I am happily waiting for:
15" Retina Display MacBook Pro
quad-core Intel Ivy Bridge core-i7 3770T (2.5 GHz)
8 GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM memory
512GB solid state drive
AMD Radeon 7000 series (28 nm process) (4k resolution capable)
The i7 3770T is a desktop CPU. It will be the QM mobile chips they use in the MBP:
2.3GHz 3610QM - 45W
2.1GHz 3612QM - 35W
2.3GHz 3615QM - 45W
2.6GHz 3720QM - 45W
2.7GHz 3820QM - 45W
The 3612QM might go in a 13" model with IGP.
FYI
There is an excellent picture archiving and communication system (PACS) server solution for Mac that integrates exceedingly well with OSiriX which is free as well. .
What is it? Generally if the image is a JPEG file I attach it directly to the EHR file. But I would be interested in knowing the options available.
I agree that Macs are gaining in popularity amongst US health care professionals. My billing software is MacPractice and I am under the impression that they have seen a steady and consistent increase in their business over the past few years that has corresponded with the general increase in Mac popularity over the last few years. I also use SpringCharts EHR and I have been told by representatives there that 20% of their user base are Macs. I would hate to see Apple abandon OSX server as this would jeopardize the future of these apps on the Mac platform.
..
And I don't think the Mac Pro tower will be discontinued. If nothing else, Apple cares about iOS development, and some developers will want a proper workstation.
What's wrong with the iMac as a developers workstation?
All these years I've been using an iMac for iOS development and I never got the memo.
Makes sense to get a MacPro for iOS dev work since an iMac doesn't have anywhere near the horsepower necessary to run an iOS ARM app in emulation right?? </sarcasm>
I think a Mac Pro station would come in handy not for iOS directly, but for those graphics-intensive iOS apps where you want to render the images on a fast system like a MacPro using photoshop. I can see that easily. For iOS/Xcode work though, any Mac is sufficient imho.
There's nothing wrong with it per se. But iOS development is very iterative: often you make a small change, fire up the simulator, test it out, make another small change, etc. Perhaps more so than other development (such as server side) due to the desire to get the GUI perfect in iOS apps.
If that cycle can be sped up by just a few seconds each time it could make a big difference to how many times the developer tweaks a particular feature before getting fed up and deciding it's "good enough." Multiply that by a thousand developers making a thousand apps and the overall quality of iOS software could be effected by having the best available dev box a few seconds slower than it could have been.
This makes the very wrong assumption that people who are developers are only coding on Mac Pros. Which is not the case. iMacs, laptops and Minis are regularly used as it is. Removing the Pro would only increase time for those who replace the Pro w/something less efficient. As the Pro already makes up much less of the market than any other Apple system...
What is it? Generally if the image is a JPEG file I attach it directly to the EHR file. But I would be interested in knowing the options available.
I agree that Macs are gaining in popularity amongst US health care professionals. My billing software is MacPractice and I am under the impression that they have seen a steady and consistent increase in their business over the past few years that has corresponded with the general increase in Mac popularity over the last few years. I also use SpringCharts EHR and I have been told by representatives there that 20% of their user base are Macs. I would hate to see Apple abandon OSX server as this would jeopardize the future of these apps on the Mac platform.
I'm in the 3D medical imaging business and education field as well. Kind of interesting to see this discussion here even though it's way off topic. I'm a specialist in digital x-ray and going off on a tangent so... I think I'll give this OSiriX a try since it is open source. Our software currently is all Windows based and ties into TDO which is a comprehensive software platform for dental practices.
Even if Apple did abandon the Server, can't you just install those packages on any Mac and simply enable all the file sharing configurations necessary? The new Lion Server is just some add on management tools to the regular Lion version.
I'm in the 3D medical imaging business and education field as well. Kind of interesting to see this discussion here even though it's way off topic. I'm a specialist in digital x-ray and going off on a tangent so... I think I'll give this OSiriX a try since it is open source. Our software currently is all Windows based and ties into TDO which is a comprehensive software platform for dental practices.
Osirix is excellent. I have radiologist friends at the hospital that have Macs at home and feel that Osirix is as good as the Windows PACS software they use at the hospital. Its free so you ought to give it a test drive. I bet you'll be impressed by it.
Even if Apple did abandon the Server, can't you just install those packages on any Mac and simply enable all the file sharing configurations necessary?
I don't know. I suspect that those vendors might just write a server version in Windows or Linux that the Mac clients could access the files to. This has a real downside for me as I currently do most of the administration of my computers. Adding another platform just makes that more difficult. OSX server once set up (I did not do this, I had an outside consultant do this for me) is easy to administer. I also would loose some of the advantages of OSX. Example; I have an automator script that helps me backup my data. Moving to another platform means having to replace that workflow with a Linux or Windows solution. I'm sure that they exist but I would have to discover it and it may not be free like automator is on OSX.
I'm a real fan of OSX server for small business. I think its under-appreciated.
The chips arrive April 29th so likely the first week in May.
.
Sooo.. a new, very different form factor for MacBook Pro and no 'special' announcement? Just shows up in the store one day? Seems odd. Would Apple have a special event one month before WWDC?
Tell me what iOS development tasks cannot be done on an iMac.
Probably all of it, but that misses the point. The point is that the responsiveness of the hardware has an impact on the developer's productivity...and studies have shown that the negative effect of poor responsiveness has a progressively nonlinear impact.
Just put lots of RAM and an SSD in RAM iMac and it will fly as a developer workstation, to the point you will have a very hard time noticing any difference with a 12 core Mac Pro. I did it a few weeks ago with my 2010 quad core i7 iMac, and I can only say the machine feels like something completely different for devlopment work. Compilation, debugging, starting the iOS simulator, it's all near instantaneous.
Hardly surprising if you think about it, since almost all typical development tasks are decidedly I/O bound, so if you have a decent CPU (which all the current iMacs have), lots of RAM and a fast SSD (I used a Samsung 830), there is very little to gain by throwing more hardware and money at it by buying a Mac Pro. We've long passed the point that development work requires extreme high-end hardware.