"Intel & Microsoft hope to push iPad's global market share under 50% in 2013"
Well the only way they can do that is by making a better product, so I hope they do.
I couldn't agree more. Intel is an industry treasure that consistently drives the industry toward improved manufacturing processes and innovation. They were caught with their pants down by ARM 's superior architecture. Shame on Intel, good for ARM. So, I'd love to see this little rumble result in even better architectures at lower cost; good for all.
HOWEVER, it seems that so many of these manufacturers are *hoping* that by ganging up on Apple that they'll be successful, which just won't happen -- as has been demonstrated by the horde of look-alike Android products out there. Only some have been truly successful, and even those devices don't (yet) have an effective ecosystem which they can truly claim as their own. It is the ecosystem that counts, not the individual devices or impressive specs.
Apple, with only a handful of devices and a well-oiled ecosystem will continue to put the hurt on these other manufacturers five to ten years down the pike.
Dah, it will happen soon. Apple simply does not have a product to compete in 5.5"-8" tablet space. iPad is great tablet for couch potatoes, but there is a huge demand for smaller tablets which could be held by one hand and for multipurpose tablets.
Yet ... but will have by 4Q12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99
There will be more tablets of dual tablet/phone usage with headset and speakerphone. Windows 8 tablet can also serve as productivity tool: you can run full blown desktop apps on it.
Are you the source Digitimes keeps quoting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99
The industry is changing quickly and Apple is too big it too cocky to react quickly.
Actually, Apple is the agile one in this equation. Notice everyone else is playing catchup instead of innovating?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99
What happened with iPhone market share is a good example.
I agree - that year over year growth is terrible. Especially as a shareholder where value is not only in increased market share but in higher margins (i.e. no BOGO deals like carriers offer with 5 Android phones for 5 dollars). Also - Android might have the wider market share in the smartphone space ... but Apple doesn't compete against "Android" (which flavor?). It competes against LG, and Samsung, and Motorola, and Nokia.
There will be more tablets of dual tablet/phone usage with headset and speakerphone. Windows 8 tablet can also serve as productivity tool: you can run full blown desktop apps on it.
The industry is changing quickly and Apple is too big it too cocky to react quickly. What happened with iPhone market share is a good example.
Two things:
1. The original windows tablet failed because they tried to run full blown desktop apps on it and no tablet buyer really wants that kind of punishment. Why would that be a reason for success now?
2. What happened with the iPhone's market share is that Apple refused to cut their margins and/or sell cheaper phones just to gain market share. Apple could easily take over the market if it becomes a market share-maximizing rather than a profit-maximizing company. Like the PC market, it is impossible to capture the entire smartphone market from the high end to the low end. Why? Because once you target the low end, your high end business disappears. If Apple starts selling a plasticky, cheap materials, low-end version of the iPhone, that's it for the current 'luxury' version --most of Apple's iPhone customers will migrate to the cheap version. Why? Because the American consumer prefers cheap disposable crap. They'd rather keep buying the 2 dollar screwdriver that breaks after one use than the 10 dollar one that you keep for the rest of your life. Even if they end up buying the 2 buck chuck 10 times. Why do you think Walmart is so successful?
I'm not helping with their plans. I just purchased a new iPad today. I also created this message with the dictation tool. I'm going to get spoiled by it.
If Intel were smart, they would strike a deal with Apple to make Apple's processors and other chips that Apple designs in an outsourcing contract, so Intel could generate revenue. Intel is being two faced about this since Intel was late into the ARM processor market. If Apple and Intel joined forces to produce the best ARM processors, then both companies benefit. The problem Microsoft has is their ecosystem is not going to be as developed as Apple since Microsoft doesn't market tablets and computers. Microsoft has already proven that they have a difficult time competing in the iPod and iPhone market, and the tablet market is another that Microsoft just doesn't know how to compete. Microsoft is losing to Apple in the desktop and laptop market because the WIndows based computers just aren't as easy to use, they don't have compelling designs and Apple is just a better overall product that is part of a more developed ecosystem. Customers defect from one brand because they aren't satisfied. It is as simple as that. Customers will only stay with one product until they reach a point where they can't put up with second rate customer service and support. Apple has focused on certain key areas and corporations are learning slowly that the overall price for computer is a sum of the product AND support costs and finding a hardware supplier that can match Apple is impossible to find.
Intel will never ever make ARM designed cpus. Its like apple putting android on its own hardware. Never going to happen.
Actually, Apple is the agile one in this equation. Notice everyone else is playing catchup instead of innovating?
No, I have not noticed. Android manufacturers offer screen sizes 5.3"-9", Apple does not. Android/Win 8 manufacturers offer multi-purpose/multifunction devices - Apple does not. Where is Apple innovation? Apple did not invent a tablet nor capacitive touchscreen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokenuser
but Apple doesn't compete against "Android" (which flavor?). It competes against LG, and Samsung, and Motorola, and Nokia.
Of course Apple competes against Android since Apple also an OS software company. There are 4 current iOS flavors (ipod, ipad, iphone and AppleTV), but there is only 2 current Android flavors: Honeycomb for tablets and ICS for phones.
Both Microsoft and Intel are said to have been working closely with PC makers in hopes of pushing Apple's iPad to less than 50 percent of the global tablet market by mid-2013.
The main disconnect is that Microsoft's strategy for tablets (at least for the next year or so) does not involve Intel. Microsoft's success will NOT benefit Intel since MS is using ARM chips in current tablet designs.
1. The original windows tablet failed because they tried to run full blown desktop apps on it and no tablet buyer really wants that kind of punishment. Why would that be a reason for success now?
Microsoft never gets it right first time. Apple has had flailed products too: remember Newton?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
2. What happened with the iPhone's market share is that Apple refused to cut their margins and/or sell cheaper phones just to gain market share.
No. The reason Apple lost market share is not the price. The reason is that Apple is late with adapting to consumer demand and new technologies. Apple is late with large screen phones, 4G connectivity, OLED displays, etc.
Another example: multifunction devices. Samsung sold 5 million of Galaxy Note phone/tablet hybrids in 3 month mostly overseas even before they came to US. It's not a lot compare to the volume of iPhones sold, but it's another piece contributing to the lost market share and lost profits.
No. The reason Apple lost market share is not the price. The reason is that Apple is late with adapting to consumer demand and new technologies. Apple is late with large screen phones, 4G connectivity, OLED displays, etc.
Really? Apple didn't lose market share because of price? You are going with that?
You have absolutely no proof of that. If I were to guess at an answer, as you have, I'd say that the low cost in so many of their phones is the main factor in Android's rise.
I second that. I'm an iPad 2 and 3 owner but I would like to see what Windows 8 brings to the market in the tablet spectrum. Sure there will be poor offerings with some, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that they bring some actual competition to Apple. More competition = more innovation/cheaper prices/big win for the consumer.
Actual evidence seems to contradict you here. The areas where the tablets have the most competition seems to be where innovation is weakest. Apple seems to be doing just fine innovating with or without competitive pressure, especially since they can drive additional margins into greater innovation. Competition DOES improve cost efficiencies which in an efficient market is supposed to spur innovation, but I don't see that cost efficiencies are actually enabling new innovation considering the wide gap between what's possible and what's reality given today's technology landscape. I think the opportunity cost of the increased efficiency that competition affords here is dwarfed by the margins that actual innovative products can demand.
Really? Apple didn't lose market share because of price? You are going with that?
You have absolutely no proof of that. If I were to guess at an answer, as you have, I'd say that the low cost in so many of their phones is the main factor in Android's rise.
That... and spiffs, of course.
Price? Top of the line Android phones cost the same as iPhone. Some actually cost more, e.g. Galaxy Note LTE subsidized ATT price $300 vs. $200 iPhone.
And then think about it: many people would not wait 18 month just to fix antenna issue and get minor spec updates. Apple is beating the old horse over and over but a lot of people expect more regardless sleek design and rigorous marketing hype.
Really? Apple didn't lose market share because of price? You are going with that?
You have absolutely no proof of that. If I were to guess at an answer, as you have, I'd say that the low cost in so many of their phones is the main factor in Android's rise.
That... and spiffs, of course.
Android is no longer gaining share against the iPhone despite a continued cost gap, so I don't think the data backs you up here. I think the rise of Android can be mostly explained by Apple's lack of presence with Verizon, certain Chinese providers, and the pre-paid market, not the pure cost profile.
Let's also not ignore that the anticipated market for tablets in 2013 is double what it was in 2011, so Apple at 50% is still going to have record sales against the fragmented competition. It's inevitable that the rest of the market will eventually capture some segment of the market, just a matter of "when".
Still says a lot if Apple can keep 50% in a market that includes Google, Amazon, Samsung, Toshiba, Lenovo, and countless others.
And then think about it: many people would not wait 18 month just to fix antenna issue and get minor spec updates.
Fortunately, neither of those things happened and you're simply a liar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venerable
Let's also not ignore that the anticipated market for tablets in 2013 is double what it was in 2011, so Apple at 50% is still going to have record sales against the fragmented competition. It's inevitable that the rest of the market will eventually capture some segment of the market, just a matter of "when".
Yep. It'll be Windows 8 tablets that actually get the marketshare, but I predict confidently that those laptops whose screens spin around and become touch will be called "tablets" to boost numbers.
If the iPad falls below 50%, it most likely will not have anything to do with Intel.
I'd be looking more at the Windows RT ARM based tablets, and existing Android tablet makers dropping the new Windows OS on them.
I suspect that the market cannibalised wont be the iPad one - it will be the "Android" one.
Somebody has unwavering faith in Google. Remember: not everything Google tries to do is a winner. Their Twitter & Facebook clones are not beating the originals, and their ChromeBook netbook products aren't winning either.
Comments
"Intel & Microsoft hope to push iPad's global market share under 50% in 2013"
Well the only way they can do that is by making a better product, so I hope they do.
I couldn't agree more. Intel is an industry treasure that consistently drives the industry toward improved manufacturing processes and innovation. They were caught with their pants down by ARM 's superior architecture. Shame on Intel, good for ARM. So, I'd love to see this little rumble result in even better architectures at lower cost; good for all.
HOWEVER, it seems that so many of these manufacturers are *hoping* that by ganging up on Apple that they'll be successful, which just won't happen -- as has been demonstrated by the horde of look-alike Android products out there. Only some have been truly successful, and even those devices don't (yet) have an effective ecosystem which they can truly claim as their own. It is the ecosystem that counts, not the individual devices or impressive specs.
Apple, with only a handful of devices and a well-oiled ecosystem will continue to put the hurt on these other manufacturers five to ten years down the pike.
Also about as successful as their ultrabook strategy as well.
You mean the one Intel is pushing because Apple pushed them to develop the chips to be used in the MBA?
Intel/MSFT was content with Atom/Netbooks.
Apple pushed Intel and now Intel is bitting the hand that feeds it.
Dah, it will happen soon. Apple simply does not have a product to compete in 5.5"-8" tablet space. iPad is great tablet for couch potatoes, but there is a huge demand for smaller tablets which could be held by one hand and for multipurpose tablets.
Yet ... but will have by 4Q12.
There will be more tablets of dual tablet/phone usage with headset and speakerphone. Windows 8 tablet can also serve as productivity tool: you can run full blown desktop apps on it.
Are you the source Digitimes keeps quoting?
The industry is changing quickly and Apple is too big it too cocky to react quickly.
Actually, Apple is the agile one in this equation. Notice everyone else is playing catchup instead of innovating?
What happened with iPhone market share is a good example.
I agree - that year over year growth is terrible. Especially as a shareholder where value is not only in increased market share but in higher margins (i.e. no BOGO deals like carriers offer with 5 Android phones for 5 dollars). Also - Android might have the wider market share in the smartphone space ... but Apple doesn't compete against "Android" (which flavor?). It competes against LG, and Samsung, and Motorola, and Nokia.
Yep. Apple is doomed again.
They're going to target the iPad with $1000+ Win 8 tablets? Can't wait for the fire sale.
A few models will be priced that high not all. They will most likely have high speed processors and more memory for CAD work.
There will be more tablets of dual tablet/phone usage with headset and speakerphone. Windows 8 tablet can also serve as productivity tool: you can run full blown desktop apps on it.
The industry is changing quickly and Apple is too big it too cocky to react quickly. What happened with iPhone market share is a good example.
Two things:
1. The original windows tablet failed because they tried to run full blown desktop apps on it and no tablet buyer really wants that kind of punishment. Why would that be a reason for success now?
2. What happened with the iPhone's market share is that Apple refused to cut their margins and/or sell cheaper phones just to gain market share. Apple could easily take over the market if it becomes a market share-maximizing rather than a profit-maximizing company. Like the PC market, it is impossible to capture the entire smartphone market from the high end to the low end. Why? Because once you target the low end, your high end business disappears. If Apple starts selling a plasticky, cheap materials, low-end version of the iPhone, that's it for the current 'luxury' version --most of Apple's iPhone customers will migrate to the cheap version. Why? Because the American consumer prefers cheap disposable crap. They'd rather keep buying the 2 dollar screwdriver that breaks after one use than the 10 dollar one that you keep for the rest of your life. Even if they end up buying the 2 buck chuck 10 times. Why do you think Walmart is so successful?
If Intel were smart, they would strike a deal with Apple to make Apple's processors and other chips that Apple designs in an outsourcing contract, so Intel could generate revenue. Intel is being two faced about this since Intel was late into the ARM processor market. If Apple and Intel joined forces to produce the best ARM processors, then both companies benefit. The problem Microsoft has is their ecosystem is not going to be as developed as Apple since Microsoft doesn't market tablets and computers. Microsoft has already proven that they have a difficult time competing in the iPod and iPhone market, and the tablet market is another that Microsoft just doesn't know how to compete. Microsoft is losing to Apple in the desktop and laptop market because the WIndows based computers just aren't as easy to use, they don't have compelling designs and Apple is just a better overall product that is part of a more developed ecosystem. Customers defect from one brand because they aren't satisfied. It is as simple as that. Customers will only stay with one product until they reach a point where they can't put up with second rate customer service and support. Apple has focused on certain key areas and corporations are learning slowly that the overall price for computer is a sum of the product AND support costs and finding a hardware supplier that can match Apple is impossible to find.
Intel will never ever make ARM designed cpus. Its like apple putting android on its own hardware. Never going to happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ies_by_revenue
Actually, Apple is the agile one in this equation. Notice everyone else is playing catchup instead of innovating?
No, I have not noticed. Android manufacturers offer screen sizes 5.3"-9", Apple does not. Android/Win 8 manufacturers offer multi-purpose/multifunction devices - Apple does not. Where is Apple innovation? Apple did not invent a tablet nor capacitive touchscreen.
but Apple doesn't compete against "Android" (which flavor?). It competes against LG, and Samsung, and Motorola, and Nokia.
Of course Apple competes against Android since Apple also an OS software company. There are 4 current iOS flavors (ipod, ipad, iphone and AppleTV), but there is only 2 current Android flavors: Honeycomb for tablets and ICS for phones.
Both Microsoft and Intel are said to have been working closely with PC makers in hopes of pushing Apple's iPad to less than 50 percent of the global tablet market by mid-2013.
The main disconnect is that Microsoft's strategy for tablets (at least for the next year or so) does not involve Intel. Microsoft's success will NOT benefit Intel since MS is using ARM chips in current tablet designs.
Two things:
1. The original windows tablet failed because they tried to run full blown desktop apps on it and no tablet buyer really wants that kind of punishment. Why would that be a reason for success now?
Microsoft never gets it right first time. Apple has had flailed products too: remember Newton?
2. What happened with the iPhone's market share is that Apple refused to cut their margins and/or sell cheaper phones just to gain market share.
No. The reason Apple lost market share is not the price. The reason is that Apple is late with adapting to consumer demand and new technologies. Apple is late with large screen phones, 4G connectivity, OLED displays, etc.
Another example: multifunction devices. Samsung sold 5 million of Galaxy Note phone/tablet hybrids in 3 month mostly overseas even before they came to US. It's not a lot compare to the volume of iPhones sold, but it's another piece contributing to the lost market share and lost profits.
No. The reason Apple lost market share is not the price. The reason is that Apple is late with adapting to consumer demand and new technologies. Apple is late with large screen phones, 4G connectivity, OLED displays, etc.
Really? Apple didn't lose market share because of price? You are going with that?
You have absolutely no proof of that. If I were to guess at an answer, as you have, I'd say that the low cost in so many of their phones is the main factor in Android's rise.
That... and spiffs, of course.
I second that. I'm an iPad 2 and 3 owner but I would like to see what Windows 8 brings to the market in the tablet spectrum. Sure there will be poor offerings with some, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that they bring some actual competition to Apple. More competition = more innovation/cheaper prices/big win for the consumer.
Actual evidence seems to contradict you here. The areas where the tablets have the most competition seems to be where innovation is weakest. Apple seems to be doing just fine innovating with or without competitive pressure, especially since they can drive additional margins into greater innovation. Competition DOES improve cost efficiencies which in an efficient market is supposed to spur innovation, but I don't see that cost efficiencies are actually enabling new innovation considering the wide gap between what's possible and what's reality given today's technology landscape. I think the opportunity cost of the increased efficiency that competition affords here is dwarfed by the margins that actual innovative products can demand.
Really? Apple didn't lose market share because of price? You are going with that?
You have absolutely no proof of that. If I were to guess at an answer, as you have, I'd say that the low cost in so many of their phones is the main factor in Android's rise.
That... and spiffs, of course.
Price? Top of the line Android phones cost the same as iPhone. Some actually cost more, e.g. Galaxy Note LTE subsidized ATT price $300 vs. $200 iPhone.
And then think about it: many people would not wait 18 month just to fix antenna issue and get minor spec updates. Apple is beating the old horse over and over but a lot of people expect more regardless sleek design and rigorous marketing hype.
Really? Apple didn't lose market share because of price? You are going with that?
You have absolutely no proof of that. If I were to guess at an answer, as you have, I'd say that the low cost in so many of their phones is the main factor in Android's rise.
That... and spiffs, of course.
Android is no longer gaining share against the iPhone despite a continued cost gap, so I don't think the data backs you up here. I think the rise of Android can be mostly explained by Apple's lack of presence with Verizon, certain Chinese providers, and the pre-paid market, not the pure cost profile.
Still says a lot if Apple can keep 50% in a market that includes Google, Amazon, Samsung, Toshiba, Lenovo, and countless others.
And then think about it: many people would not wait 18 month just to fix antenna issue and get minor spec updates.
Fortunately, neither of those things happened and you're simply a liar.
Let's also not ignore that the anticipated market for tablets in 2013 is double what it was in 2011, so Apple at 50% is still going to have record sales against the fragmented competition. It's inevitable that the rest of the market will eventually capture some segment of the market, just a matter of "when".
Yep. It'll be Windows 8 tablets that actually get the marketshare, but I predict confidently that those laptops whose screens spin around and become touch will be called "tablets" to boost numbers.
Letting a bunch of PC makers sell a bunch of keyboardless laptops running Windows 7 with a Metro shell smells like a recipe for success!
If the iPad falls below 50%, it most likely will not have anything to do with Intel.
I'd be looking more at the Windows RT ARM based tablets, and existing Android tablet makers dropping the new Windows OS on them.
I suspect that the market cannibalised wont be the iPad one - it will be the "Android" one.
Somebody has unwavering faith in Google. Remember: not everything Google tries to do is a winner. Their Twitter & Facebook clones are not beating the originals, and their ChromeBook netbook products aren't winning either.
Meanwhile, on the smartphone front, Microsoft chugs along with 2% market share. After years and billions $ of effort
Success in smartphones and tablets are tied together in the long term
That's because they need to sit within a rich ecosystem of applications, customer service, and "kewlness."