Apple CEO Tim Cook spotted at video game designer Valve's headquarters

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  • Reply 101 of 110
    rtm135rtm135 Posts: 310member


    Another bogus article.  Tim Cook never visited Valve.


     


    http://kotaku.com/5903555/gabe-newell-says-valve+apple-meeting-didnt-happen


     


    Why hasn't this article been updated?


     


     

  • Reply 102 of 110


    apple in gaming industry? i'm interested! i'll be looking forward to this!

  • Reply 103 of 110
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,963member


    Too bad this was all false...funny how AppleInsider was the only news/rumor site that didn't post anything on this being false yet they were the original site that posted this. Thanks AI for owning up to your mistakes!

  • Reply 104 of 110
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Please explain why you feel you can insult everyone here.



     


    Because he's 100% right? Everyone that thought this was true is an idiot. AppleInsider not updating the article to state that they completely fabricated this lie is proof enough. If you were stupid enough to believe that Valve and Apple have compatible business plans you deserve to be called an idiot.

  • Reply 105 of 110
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    macxpress wrote:
    Thanks AI for owning up to your mistakes!
    hkz wrote:
    AppleInsider not updating the article to state that they completely fabricated this lie

    The wording was odd in the original article. They said Cook 'reportedly visited' Valve but then all other online articles quote AI. If AI was the source of this, that wasn't a good choice of words as it made it sound like it was a report from a trusted source. Still, they don't make any guarantees over the articles and they often write articles around what analysts believe Apple will do. The purpose is to create interest and that it did.

    Maybe it'll encourage Tim Cook to actually visit Valve. It sounds like they have some things to talk about.

    If AI had to apologise for every wrong article, it would start to look like they aren't a credible source of information and that's not an accurate picture. In general, their reporting is above a lot of other tech blogs.
    hkz wrote:
    Please explain why you feel you can insult everyone here.

    Because he's 100% right?

    There are forum rules against ad-homs regardless of which side of the discussion people take but I believe his was said in jest. It's fine to tear apart other people's arguments but when you start attacking people directly then it demonstrates a lack of strength in your own argument and a lack of interest in being a constructive forum member. Insults benefit no one. Well, unless they are funny but they aren't the ultimate argument winner as many people like to think.
    hkz wrote:
    If you were stupid enough to believe that Valve and Apple have compatible business plans you deserve to be called an idiot.

    People would have said the same thing about Steve Jobs meeting with AT&T or TV networks before 2007 when both the ATV and iPhone were introduced. Steam is the top online AAA game distributer in the world. Apple is the top online game distributer in the world. Steam is looking for hardware development based on x86/ARM. Apple is one of the top suppliers of x86 and ARM hardware.

    It turns out they want to do some R&D on wearable computing:

    http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/13/2947088/valve-reveals-secret-hardware-project-wearable-computing
    http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/valve-how-i-got-here-what-its-like-and-what-im-doing-2/

    Google is working on this sort of thing too. This is a technology step that will be taken at some point. There is no other way to allow you to have a 60" screen in front of you while you walk around. Imagine going on a long plane journey with just a displayless iPhone. You sit in your seat with your meal on our table and only you can see a giant TV screen in front of you that you can interact with using gestures.

    Sure the technology looks clumsy now but so did every piece of technology before the breakthroughs came to improve them. If you acknowledge that augmented reality has a future then Apple's and Valve's paths will converge at some point.
  • Reply 106 of 110
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    The wording was odd in the original article. 


     


    The wording wasn't odd, it was a declaration that something happened that didn't and was nothing more than a fabrication on AI's part. Gabe Newell has flat denied it, and other publications quoting this article have since amended them for making the mistake of believing AI.


     


    I ask you a very simple question. Why after knowing this is now false has AI not owned up to their mistake and amended the article stating they were fed false information, didn't cross check their sources and then quote Gabe Newell's denial this ever happened? Because they are lazy and don't want to admit they were fed BS and ran with it. Also pageclicks.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    If AI had to apologise for every wrong article, it would start to look like they aren't a credible source of information and that's not an accurate picture. In general, their reporting is above a lot of other tech blogs.


     


    It would make them ethical and factual. Something they very obviously are not. If one were to visit this site and read this story they would falsely believe it was true. They should amend the article and there is zero harm in doing so. Admitting your mistakes is bad? I sure hope you aren't of the opinion that making mistakes and then never correcting them is okay. AI should amend this article, there's absolutely zero harm in that. If they put out false info, never correct it, and let people run with it they shouldn't be taken for a credible source because all of those things make them completely unbelievable. AI has not retracted their statements, have not amended the article and have not made any effort to correct this mistake all the while basking in the page clicks and letting everyone else fix their screwup. Do you not have integrity? Sounds like you are advocating that AI shouldn't have any. The general online blog environment is so full of that kind of BS it's maddening. Gawker is full of that kind of crap and most Apple websites are too. Remember all the iPhone rumors over the years? The supposed Apple branded HDTV? All written off of "unnamed source" BS or DigiTimes garbage. I laugh every time these online blogs try to pass off what they do as journalism. It's nothing mroe than BS rumor spreading. The least AI could do is admit their mistake but I guess they can go with your idea and have no integrity. That seems to be the general attitude on the Apple news websites these days.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    There are forum rules against ad-homs regardless of which side of the discussion people take but I believe his was said in jest. It's fine to tear apart other people's arguments but when you start attacking people directly then it demonstrates a lack of strength in your own argument and a lack of interest in being a constructive forum member. Insults benefit no one. Well, unless they are funny but they aren't the ultimate argument winner as many people like to think.


     


    Okay, I'll bite. Apple takes 30% of all sales on the App Store. Give me complete and undeniable proof that Valve will agree to that in a partnership. Don't worry, I'll wait while you dig through Valves business history to find any single incident where they agreed to hand over 30% of their potential profit to a partner. Here's a clue to get you started: They never have. Valve has been extremely tight lipped on their distribution deals with their partners and there's is zero evidence that they would start now and with all companies, Apple. Their business strategies and plans couldn't be more different. Valve makes a shitload of money selling games at very high profits. They don't maintain stores, no physical media, no support staff to replace broken items and their entire support structure is online. Valve has zero incentive to get into hardware and one job posting means jack. Making the illogical leap from a job posting, denial from the parent company the rumors are about, and zero evidence is what articles like this are based upon. WAGs, BS, and "unnamed sources" do not make even rumors. They make made up stories like this. Anyone who thinks that Apple will get their 30% profit sharing demand with Valve IS an idiot. That's not an ad hom attack, it's the truth.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    Steam is the top online AAA game distributer in the world. Apple is the top online game distributer in the world.


     


    They both can't be the top game distributor. Apple sells fart apps and me too games for .99. Steam sells titles for $20-60. There is absolutely no way Valve is going to give them anywhere near 30% of any sales they make. If you can find proof or history of them agreeing to that kind of deal, cross checked and confirmed with MULTIPLE sources (wouldn't want to pull and AI now would we?), then I'll kindly concede you the victory and shut up. Until this has been proven, anyone who thinks Valve will team up with Apple is a moron. Plain and simple. Especially when faced with a flat denial of the CEO of the company in question.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

     If you acknowledge that augmented reality has a future then Apple's and Valve's paths will converge at some point.


     


    Statement without facts to back it up. Just because a programmer works on it at Valve and you read a false story on AI about the two companies meeting means absolutely nothing about AR and the partnership of Valve and Apple. You are seriously grasping at straws here. Also, Valve is well known for throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what sticks. Just because they are trying something doesn't mean it'll see the light of day. Go read the Valve new hire handbook and you'll get an idea of how they work.

  • Reply 107 of 110
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    hkz wrote:
    Admitting your mistakes is bad?

    Of course not but all the article says is 'someone told us they saw Tim Cook at Valve HQ'. The article writers weren't lying if that's what someone told them.
    hkz wrote:
    All written off of "unnamed source" BS or DigiTimes garbage.

    Those are then your signals for detecting BS and you can ignore the article.
    hkz wrote:
    They both can't be the top game distributor.

    I didn't say they were.
    hkz wrote:
    If you can find proof or history of them agreeing to that kind of deal, cross checked and confirmed with MULTIPLE sources (wouldn't want to pull and AI now would we?), then I'll kindly concede you the victory and shut up

    I wasn't aware this was a contest nor that there was a suggestion of the amount of profit sharing. If Valve had discussed with Apple building a console or modifying their ATV, Apple makes the profit in hardware. Valve's store would then provide the downloads at no expense to Apple. This is exactly how Steam on the Mac works.

    Valve has an incentive because Microsoft and Sony already have their stores and Apple has great QA and products. Apple has an incentive because Valve has a strong mindshare and userbase and their own IP. We know it's not happening but I don't see why it's a bad idea.
    hkz wrote:
    Until this has been proven, anyone who thinks Valve will team up with Apple is a moron.

    Obviously now there's nothing to suggest that they even keep an open communication channel and certainly no indication of a partnership but that doesn't mean that they will unquestionably never have any business dealings with each other. Years ago people wouldn't have guessed that book publishers like McGraw-Hill would be dealing with Apple in a big way.

    People would have said the same about Sega. Now look at Sega selling titles on the App Store. People say the same about Nintendo and Sony. Maybe they won't ever create partnerships but how can you tell what happens when a company has a direct audience of 1 billion people? Apple will probably reach that goal in under 4 years.

    What if Apple switches their mobile products to x86 and iOS and Mac OS converge? Valve will likely be on that platform in a big way.

    Also, you know that Steam used to render the store on Internet Explorer's rendering engine - trident? Then Valve switched it to webkit, mostly developed by Apple. It's not any hint of them working together but an example where their respective products come together.
  • Reply 108 of 110
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member



    Quote:



    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    Of course not but all the article says is 'someone told us they saw Tim Cook at Valve HQ'. The article writers weren't lying if that's what someone told them.


     


    Yet they won't amend the article. The people that linked to this have.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    I didn't say they were.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

    People would have said the same thing about Steve Jobs meeting with AT&T or TV networks before 2007 when both the ATV and iPhone were introduced.


    Steam is the top online AAA game distributer in the world. Apple is the top online game distributer in the world. Steam is looking for hardware development based on x86/ARM.


    Apple is one of the top suppliers of x86 and ARM hardware.



     


    Hmmm. Your post must have been oddly worded then. Sure looks from that quote they are both top of the online game distribution ladder. Though I love playing on my games on my iPhone, about 80% of what is available is pretty awful. Most are either free or very very cheap. Not to mention very few of them are above even 150mb, most Steam games are over 2GB. Valve won't just give away the cost of all that bandwidth to host and Apple won't let them make all of the money on sales.


     


    And where exactly does Apple create this supply of ARM and x86 hardware? Did they create a fab without telling anyone? They don't supply anyone with a damn thing, how you could think they did is amazing. The Israeli plant they funded was for their own supply, not someone else's. Apple doesn't manufacture anything, they design their own chips to be made by someone else (hello? Samsung lawsuits anyone?), and they get their x86 chips from Intel. They produce zero x86/ARM hardware for the benefit of others. They also don't design hardware and then sell it to other companies.


     


    Apple went to AT&T with a list of demands that has never been met by another company. It won't ever happen again in the telecom industry and I seriously doubt anyone would bend to Apple's will in any other market. Especially the gaming market where Steam is the king in software only game sales.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    I wasn't aware this was a contest nor that there was a suggestion of the amount of profit sharing. If Valve had discussed with Apple building a console or modifying their ATV, Apple makes the profit in hardware. Valve's store would then provide the downloads at no expense to Apple. This is exactly how Steam on the Mac works.


     


    So you think Apple is just going to develop/design hardware for Valve to make money off of in software sales? Where exactly does this fit in Apples business plan anywhere? When have they sold hardware and not the software or taken some of the money made of that sale? They wouldn't go to the trouble to design/modify/develop hardware for another company to make money off of. Hello? Mac App Store? Have you forgotten that Apple is trying to head software developers at the pass and have them go through Apple to sell their wares? Steam isn't the App Store, they will NEVER let outside companies profit off hardware they make. Never going to happen. Why do you think iTunes, iBooks and the App Stores are on every device Apple sells? To lock you into an ecosystem. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, I'm not against it in any way, but Apple will never sell hardware they don't make money off of or have the potential to after the hardware is sold. Not in a million years.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

    People would have said the same about Sega. Now look at Sega selling titles on the App Store. People say the same about Nintendo and Sony. Maybe they won't ever create partnerships but how can you tell what happens when a company has a direct audience of 1 billion people? Apple will probably reach that goal in under 4 years.


     


    Sega has been dead for over 10 years. Apple wasn't in the business of selling hardware capable of playing games then. Why would Sega team up with Apple? They don't make hardware to sell games on. Nintendo is losing money on selling handheld devices and consoles. Why would they team up with Sony? Losing way more money than they can manage to lose, or not being able to sell hardware at all. Neither of those things are happening to Valve. You're comparing two completely different markets with one company that was a complete failure and one on a big decline. The thing those two have in common is selling software on their own hardware. Valve is neither of those companies and is not even in the ballpark of being in their respective situations.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    What if Apple switches their mobile products to x86 and iOS and Mac OS converge? Valve will likely be on that platform in a big way.


     


     


    You really think that? Apple will abandon designing their own ARM chips and go x86? x86 procs are hot, expensive and large. ARM is none of those. Also, you have nothing to go on Valve being a part of anything to do with Apple except one job posting on their website. Literally nothing. This whole article was written on nothing. You're making huge leaps to come to the possibility of Apple and Valve teaming to do anything. Their business practices clash, they don't have an presence in the Apple ecosystem, they have zero history working together and Steve said repeatedly that Apple was a "mobile devices company." The AppleTV hasn't made them any money, it's barely a thing in their world. They make record profits selling mobile devices. How is a console type device hooked to a TV that they don't make money off of app sales relevant to their business? Yes, they have changed markets but on their own terms. They didn't partner with anyone to make the iPhone and iPad. Those two devices dwarf their competitors entire revenue streams. None of that was done with outside partners and outside sales from two diametrically opposed companies.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    Also, you know that Steam used to render the store on Internet Explorer's rendering engine - trident? Then Valve switched it to webkit, mostly developed by Apple. It's not any hint of them working together but an example where their respective products come together.


     


    Google Chrome uses webkit, so does Mozilla Firefox. It's not any hint of them working together but an example where their respective products might come together. Right? Oh, actually that's completely wrong. The two give absolutely no connection to one another. Steam also uses the SILK audio codec developed by Skype. Could that wearable hardwear be some sort of jointly developed phone? Of course not.


     


    There is literally nothing to this story. Nothing. The only problem is that while AppleInsider chose to run with this BS without so much as a simple cross check, even after the fact, and people took it at face value. The difference is that they actually tried to find out the truth and realized is was all a bunch of pageclick BS. They did everyone a favor and told them the truth, something AppleInsider STILL won't do.

  • Reply 109 of 110
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    hkz wrote:
    Sure looks from that quote they are both top of the online game distribution ladder.

    Steam is top for AAA games. Apple is top overall. As you noted, iOS games are mostly not AAA games.
    hkz wrote:
    They produce zero x86/ARM hardware for the benefit of others. They also don't design hardware and then sell it to other companies.

    They design chips for fabrication elsewhere. There was no suggestion of them selling it to other companies.
    hkz wrote:
    So you think Apple is just going to develop/design hardware for Valve to make money off of in software sales? Where exactly does this fit in Apples business plan anywhere?

    The same way them making a phone that makes network carriers a profit or making an iPod makes money for the music companies. They take a cut somewhere but I doubt it's 30%. Plus any Mac services like movie streaming or whatever, they don't get a cut.
    hkz wrote:
    Valve is neither of those companies and is not even in the ballpark of being in their respective situations.

    Yeah, Valve can do what they want, when they want but not all business deals are driven by desperate circumstances.
    hkz wrote:
    You really think that? Apple will abandon designing their own ARM chips and go x86? x86 procs are hot, expensive and large.

    Their latest Medfield platform isn't too bad. I don't think it's on the cards in the near future but it's a very real possibility. Imagine being able to combine the iOS store and Mac store and being able to run CoD or Team fortress on your iPhone (no K&M but maybe Blackberry will have something suitable).
    hkz wrote:
    The AppleTV hasn't made them any money, it's barely a thing in their world. They make record profits selling mobile devices. How is a console type device hooked to a TV that they don't make money off of app sales relevant to their business?

    That's exactly the motivation. People buy an XBox or PS3 and sometimes use them for their media like Netflix and other services. The emphasis is on gaming. The ATV could be the opposite, being a media device with gaming thrown in. That would be huge for families who want to sit their kids down in front of an inexpensive box and keep them entertained. With game prices ranging from free to $10-20, it's way more cost-effective than a console. The more people buy the box for gaming, the more Apple gets their TV audience and leverage with the networks.

    They don't have to involve Valve at all of course and have many reasons not to but gaming would be a nice addition to the ATV.
  • Reply 110 of 110
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member


    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    They design chips for fabrication elsewhere. There was no suggestion of them selling it to other companies.


     


     


    Really? I guess you meant something different when you posted this:


     


     


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    I wasn't aware this was a contest nor that there was a suggestion of the amount of profit sharing. If Valve had discussed with Apple building a console or modifying their ATV, Apple makes the profit in hardware. Valve's store would then provide the downloads at no expense to Apple. This is exactly how Steam on the Mac works.



     


     


    How would Apple make profit on the hardware unless they sold it to Valve? They aren't and never have been in the business of making/designing/having someone else produce hardware and then selling it to someone else to make money off of. Steam makes money from Mac game sales, but Apple didn't design their MacBooks and iMacs with that purpose in mind, iOS devices they have. I seriously doubt Valve makes a lot of money off of it anyway, most of the games on there are crap, me too games are already on the MAS, and gaming performance for good games is just awful in OS X by in large anyway. Nothing I've played in OS X gets even half the performance that it does in Windows 7. This is a HUGE deterrent for me, if I'm getting barely 50% of the performance I do in Windows on the same exact hardware, where's the incentive for me to buy it for OS X? Teaming up with Valve won't change that unless they kick Apple's ass all over the place and force them/teach them how to make games run half decent. Valve won't work for cheap on that either.


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    The same way them making a phone that makes network carriers a profit or making an iPod makes money for the music companies. 


     


    This is true, but by the same token Apple makes money off of it as well. They sell music and apps on both devices even though they sold it to someone else. Apple doesn't sell just the hardware to the carriers and the iPod to people and then the revenue stream ends. Apple is almost unique in tech of selling hardware and then making a boatload of money for the life of the device. Almost nowhere else is this business plan seen, much less work as well as it does.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    Yeah, Valve can do what they want, when they want but not all business deals are driven by desperate circumstances.



     


    The Sega example you gave was driven by desperate circumstances and has no validity to the discussion at hand. You gave an irrelevant example. The Nintendo example is almost exactly the same and is also irrelevant. Valve isn't failing in any way, much less in the hardware business that doesn't exist. Why you brought that up I don't know, it has nothing to do with this supposed meeting. Yes, markets change and unlikely partners do go in business with one another. These two companies are wildly successful though and don't have anything in common with either Sega or Nintendo.


     


     


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    Their latest Medfield platform isn't too bad. I don't think it's on the cards in the near future but it's a very real possibility. Imagine being able to combine the iOS store and Mac store and being able to run CoD or Team fortress on your iPhone (no K&M but maybe Blackberry will have something suitable).



     


     


    Medfield will fail. Intel only knows how to make CPUs, nothing they've ever made outside that product has been worth a damn. Also, Medfield is about 10 years too late to the fight. There is already a device to play those two games you are talking about, the iPad (and other handheld consoles). While I wouldn't mind having better games on the market, portable games are so crippled with touchscreen (that genre anyway) that I personally couldn't care less about them. Not to mention CoD is a completely terrible franchise to begin with. I'd like to see more RTS type games and that doesn't need anything more than a touchscreen.


     


     


     


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    That's exactly the motivation. People buy an XBox or PS3 and sometimes use them for their media like Netflix and other services. The emphasis is on gaming. The ATV could be the opposite, being a media device with gaming thrown in. That would be huge for families who want to sit their kids down in front of an inexpensive box and keep them entertained. With game prices ranging from free to $10-20, it's way more cost-effective than a console. The more people buy the box for gaming, the more Apple gets their TV audience and leverage with the networks.



     


     


    This is agree with 100%. They don't need to beat the console makers at their own game. I'd be perfectly okay with the ATV being an iPhone/iPad equivalent for the family TV. It won't get anywhere near the power and speed of any current or immediate future console, but that's okay. I'd like to have the ability to play some of the iOS games on my TV but with the ability of the Xbox to play Netflix and other media I don't have a use for the ATV. Might that change? I don't know. I do know that Valve and Apple teaming up to make that happen is almost certain never to happen. Their business plans and cultures are just too different for me to ever see it becoming a million in one chance.


     


     


     


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    They don't have to involve Valve at all of course and have many reasons not to but gaming would be a nice addition to the ATV.



     


     


    And I don't see why they would. Apple has enough engineers and smart people that know strategy that involving an outside partner to sell makes absolutely zero sense. There's nothing in Apple's history that would come remotely close to them making hardware for someone else and then not making a boatload of cash off it for the life of the device. They team up with other companies to produce individual components to make the overall device but they don't share a single cent with Samsung on App Store profits. They won't do it with Valve either and I believe if they pitched the idea to them Valve would tell them to take a hike.

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