If Apple offers a very high resolution 15", why wouldn't they offer an even higher resolution 17"? Since you're making things up, anyway.....
And for any given resolution, the 17" will be easier to read than the 15".
Um...maybe because nobody buys the 17"? I don't recommend them and I know a lot of people who do have them and they're just too big. If you have resolution independence then the 15" will be just as easy to read as the 17". Face it dude...the 17" is EOL.
I think that once they try a 15 inch MBP, they will realize that Apple was right.
Yes, Apple is right - since they offer both a 15" and a 17". You see, Apple realizes that some people prefer the larger screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
Um...maybe because nobody buys the 17"? I don't recommend them and I know a lot of people who do have them and they're just too big. If you have resolution independence then the 15" will be just as easy to read as the 17". Face it dude...the 17" is EOL.
Nobody buys the 17"? Really? Then how did I get this 17" MacBook Pro on my desk? I know that Apple didn't GIVE it so me.
Face it - lots of people prefer the larger screen.
Your other argument is completely absurd. Arguing that a 15" is just as readable as a 17" is ridiculous. At any given resolution, items will be larger on the 17" screen than on the 15" screen which makes them easier to read. Furthermore, at any given screen technology, it's possible to get more pixels on a 17" screen than on a 15" screen, improving readability and flexibility even further. Your argument is inane ("let's assume that we can keep getting higher and higher resolution on the 15" while we'll assume that the resolution of the 17" doesn't change).
Unless they are discontinued, my next Mac purchase will be an Ivy Bridge 17" MacBook Pro.
Do I need a 17" screen in a portable? Hell no. I don't even use my Macs, professionally. My employers equips me with a new ThinkPad every year for that. I have an 11" MacBook Air for portability and on-the-road use, an iPad for lazy surfing and an iPhone for when I didn't bring anything else.
Guess what? I don't have to justify buying a 17" MacBook to anyone but myself. Wanna know how that goes? "I want one. I can afford it. Add to basket." There, all done. I couldn't care less what anyone here or elsewhere thinks about that. Whether they think I should buy a 15" instead because I don't do anything, professionally, that requires a large screen. Nor for any other reason. Screw you guys, I'm going home. With a 17" MBP if Apple are gracious enough to keep manufacturing them. And here's hoping they are.
Unless they are discontinued, my next Mac purchase will be an Ivy Bridge 17" MacBook Pro.
Do I need a 17" screen in a portable? Hell no. I don't even use my Macs, professionally. My employers equips me with a new ThinkPad every year for that. I have an 11" MacBook Air for portability and on-the-road use, an iPad for lazy surfing and an iPhone for when I didn't bring anything else.
Guess what? I don't have to justify buying a 17" MacBook to anyone but myself. Wanna know how that goes? "I want one. I can afford it. Add to basket." There, all done. I couldn't care less what anyone here or elsewhere thinks about that. Whether they think I should buy a 15" instead because I don't do anything, professionally, that requires a large screen. Nor for any other reason. Screw you guys, I'm going home. With a 17" MBP if Apple are gracious enough to keep manufacturing them. And here's hoping they are.
.tsooJ
As long as you admit you don't NEED it, I'm fine with that. Wanting one is perfectly fine. I just issue with people that say they'll buy a PC instead, or that they "can't work" on a 15".
<p> </p><div class="quote-container">As long as you admit you don't NEED it, I'm fine with that. Wanting one is perfectly fine. I just issue with people that say they'll buy a PC instead, or that they "can't work" on a 15". </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>
Since your point is so incredibly cogent and you are so correct, surely you will admit that you don't **need** any MBP at all, and that you only want one. Surely you will admit you could get along just as well with an 8 GB iPod touch instead?
Why do you think Retina won't show up for another year on the laptops? Intel is already ready, and the OS is being optimized for Retina, according to the rumors. Seems like the perfect time to make the transition.
Why do you think Retina won't show up for another year on the laptops? Intel is already ready, and the OS is being optimized for Retina, according to the rumors. Seems like the perfect time to make the transition.
Doesn't matter if Intel's ready. The panels aren't.
And do you really think an Intel 4000 is going to be able to push this stuff well?
Doesn't matter if Intel's ready. The panels aren't.
And do you really think an Intel 4000 is going to be able to push this stuff well?
Dunno, that's why I'm asking. I thought the 4000 was finally supposed to be half decent for most usages, and what it can't handle, well there should be some discrete graphics for that right? As far as the panels are concerned, we sure none are ready? Yes there were reports of difficulties producing the iPad screens, but they managed. Is making a 13", 15" panel that much harder?
<p> </p><div class="quote-container"> <span>Quote:</span> <div class="quote-block"> Originally Posted by <strong>Tallest Skil</strong> <a href="/t/149540/apple-predicted-to-discontinue-17-inch-macbook-pro/120#post_2100350"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <br /> <p> </p> <p> Doesn't matter if Intel's ready. The panels aren't.</p> <p> </p> <p> And do you really think an Intel 4000 is going to be able to push this stuff well?</p> </div></div><p> </p><p> Dunno, that's why I'm asking. I thought the 4000 was finally supposed to be half decent for most usages, and what it can't handle, well there should be some discrete graphics for that right? As far as the panels are concerned, we sure none are ready? Yes there were reports of difficulties producing the iPad screens, but they managed. Is making a 13", 15" panel that much harder?</p>
Benchmarks are becoming available and they are painting a mixed picture of Intels 4000 series GPU. It can be seen as a vast improvement over the old intel integrated GPUs, but sadly still doesn't outperform a year old AMD integrated chip. Right now it is a bit of mystery as to how the chip would perform on a high resolution screen, but indication are we would see a regression in some ways.
In any event this is why I suspect that we will see high resolution screens on the MBPs first as they have the option of a descrete GPU or a higher clocked Intel chip. Extra battery power and fewer RAM limitations also factor in.
As to panels I think it is possible that they are ready. We have manufactures that have publicly announced such screens. Further everyone has assumed that Apples agreements with various LCD makers revolves around parts for the iPad. That is certainly part of what is going on but it would be shocking to think they haven't focused some of this tech on laptops. After all going for an iPad sized screen to a 11 or 13" screen isn't a big deal. In fact if they use larger pixels it would be easier.
No one here can say for sure if high DPI screens will come to laptops this year. Personally I think it is possible from the screen standpoint, the bigger issues is driving all of those pixels.
I think if anything, if the 17-inch isn't listed in the refresh -- it's because they can't get a high rez 17" screen in a reasonable price + quantity yet.
I've been using a 15" -- after having a 17", and I feel like I'm really cramped. 3D, Video, professional graphics -- you need the screen real estate.
17" might not seem as portable -- but neither is carrying an extra monitor just so you can lay out a palette of tools.
>> I both hope and think that this rumor is bogus, and it is merely fueled by delayed shipping. A 17" Retina display is also hard to believe.
As long as you admit you don't NEED it, I'm fine with that. Wanting one is perfectly fine. I just issue with people that say they'll buy a PC instead, or that they "can't work" on a 15".
Then you've got an "issue" with anyone who does 3D, Video, and high end graphics. I'm even sure spreadsheet users like larger screens. And then there are people who LIKE larger screens because they have large eyes I suppose.
I have to wonder at people who project only their own sense of what is important on the world without considering the "needs" of others. YES, we can all "get by" with a 15" -- but there are people on the fence and if they can't get a larger monitor, they might get a PC. Heck, I might be curious about creating a Hackintosh laptop if there is no 17".
17" might not seem as portable -- but neither is carrying an extra monitor just so you can lay out a palette of tools.
Unless it's your iPad. iPad retina + 15" hirez probably is as much usable working area as a 17" MBP.
Lag and lack of software support is the primary issue at this point but I can see a significant advantage in many (but of course not all) workflows if the tools make use of a high resolution touch screen for some things.
My last three Macs have all been 17" laptops: 2005 17" PowerBook G4, 2007 17" MacBook Pro and 2008 17" MacBook Pro. I'm anxiously (and now, thanks to this ridiculous analyst's fairy tale, nervously) awaiting the next generation of Mac laptops so I can upgrade.
I've been a video professional for 13 years, and I spent the first 5 of those years using 15" PowerBooks. Moving up to 17" (once they became available) was fantastic; I never want to go down a size again.
The only other size Mac laptop I'd ever want to buy apart from 17" is 19", 21", even 27": seriously, a portfolio case I can fold over would be heaven.
I would love to have a 19" MacBook Pro. That screen realestate would be ideal for me. That being said, I wouldn't complain about a 21" either.
I have been using my 17" for about a year and a half for photo editing and spreadsheet work. To be completely honest, I find the screen size to be a bit cramped for my style. I used to use a 22" and 19" monitor combination before going mobile, which I do miss, but I have no desire to be stuck at a desk, so 17" is my option.
I think if anything, if the 17-inch isn't listed in the refresh -- it's because they can't get a high rez 17" screen in a reasonable price + quantity yet.
I've been using a 15" -- after having a 17", and I feel like I'm really cramped. 3D, Video, professional graphics -- you need the screen real estate.
17" might not seem as portable -- but neither is carrying an extra monitor just so you can lay out a palette of tools.
>> I both hope and think that this rumor is bogus, and it is merely fueled by delayed shipping. A 17" Retina display is also hard to believe.
There are some very common themes in the things you've mentioned. They tend to have a very large number of ui elements no matter how many things you hotkey. I mean there are programs where I have 30+ hotkey combinations just to avoid losing my place visually on the screen, and even I still have to accommodate a lot of tools on the display. With anything where a large desktop display is the common format, a laptop tends to be somewhat of a compromise to efficiency. It's just that you can minimize this with a large one if you spend a lot of time away from your office. The 17" isn't bad with a laptop case. It would be annoying to transport bare without risking damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanthony
I would love to have a 19" MacBook Pro. That screen realestate would be ideal for me. That being said, I wouldn't complain about a 21" either.
I have been using my 17" for about a year and a half for photo editing and spreadsheet work. To be completely honest, I find the screen size to be a bit cramped for my style. I used to use a 22" and 19" monitor combination before going mobile, which I do miss, but I have no desire to be stuck at a desk, so 17" is my option.
You know a couple companies did try 19" laptops. They never sold well. With stuff like this it's just a balancing act. You can keep going larger until the number of people buying them is no longer sustainable. In this case there is a market. I think more of their growth went to smaller form factors, but most of the people on here have no idea how to look at data. They're just following a narrative driven by bloggers and Apple enthusiast sites.
It's also important tot realize that there are layers of speculation here. We had rumors about a potential redesign last year too. This year they're much noisier. The speculation here is that there will be a redesign and that they won't dedicate the time into making a redesigned 17" model due to faltering volume. I can't seem to find where Apple breaks these things down by product. There isn't any indication how his numbers were calculated.
Many thousands of 17" MBP are sold every quarter. They are invaluable for powerusers on Pro Tools and graphics users.
I'm on the road constantly and my 17" is a fantastic tool. I would hate to see Apple abandon the high end user, especially because it is still profitable.
I don't know how anyone here can say Apple will discontinue a product based on how many they sell when we don't know how many they sell because Apple doesn't share the sales figures between the models.
Comments
The only reason I bought a 17" MacBook Pro was because they didn't do a 19".
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
If Apple offers a very high resolution 15", why wouldn't they offer an even higher resolution 17"? Since you're making things up, anyway.....
And for any given resolution, the 17" will be easier to read than the 15".
Um...maybe because nobody buys the 17"? I don't recommend them and I know a lot of people who do have them and they're just too big. If you have resolution independence then the 15" will be just as easy to read as the 17". Face it dude...the 17" is EOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
Um...maybe because nobody buys the 17"?
We've been over this. Your statement is false.
Quote:
… and I know a lot of people who do have them and they're just too big.
For them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
If you have resolution independence then the 15" will be just as easy to read as the 17".
That's not the only point at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
I think that once they try a 15 inch MBP, they will realize that Apple was right.
Yes, Apple is right - since they offer both a 15" and a 17". You see, Apple realizes that some people prefer the larger screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
Um...maybe because nobody buys the 17"? I don't recommend them and I know a lot of people who do have them and they're just too big. If you have resolution independence then the 15" will be just as easy to read as the 17". Face it dude...the 17" is EOL.
Nobody buys the 17"? Really? Then how did I get this 17" MacBook Pro on my desk? I know that Apple didn't GIVE it so me.
Face it - lots of people prefer the larger screen.
Your other argument is completely absurd. Arguing that a 15" is just as readable as a 17" is ridiculous. At any given resolution, items will be larger on the 17" screen than on the 15" screen which makes them easier to read. Furthermore, at any given screen technology, it's possible to get more pixels on a 17" screen than on a 15" screen, improving readability and flexibility even further. Your argument is inane ("let's assume that we can keep getting higher and higher resolution on the 15" while we'll assume that the resolution of the 17" doesn't change).
Unless they are discontinued, my next Mac purchase will be an Ivy Bridge 17" MacBook Pro.
Do I need a 17" screen in a portable? Hell no. I don't even use my Macs, professionally. My employers equips me with a new ThinkPad every year for that. I have an 11" MacBook Air for portability and on-the-road use, an iPad for lazy surfing and an iPhone for when I didn't bring anything else.
Guess what? I don't have to justify buying a 17" MacBook to anyone but myself. Wanna know how that goes? "I want one. I can afford it. Add to basket." There, all done. I couldn't care less what anyone here or elsewhere thinks about that. Whether they think I should buy a 15" instead because I don't do anything, professionally, that requires a large screen. Nor for any other reason. Screw you guys, I'm going home. With a 17" MBP if Apple are gracious enough to keep manufacturing them. And here's hoping they are.
.tsooJ
This would be a disaster for the core group of music and creative pros that have always relied on mac Pros or the 17" big boy.
bad decision to abandon these customers because while profitable, they don't sell enough in some bean counters
ledger brain. Bad idea that will have long term ramifications. i hope it does not come to pass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyorpb
Unless they are discontinued, my next Mac purchase will be an Ivy Bridge 17" MacBook Pro.
Do I need a 17" screen in a portable? Hell no. I don't even use my Macs, professionally. My employers equips me with a new ThinkPad every year for that. I have an 11" MacBook Air for portability and on-the-road use, an iPad for lazy surfing and an iPhone for when I didn't bring anything else.
Guess what? I don't have to justify buying a 17" MacBook to anyone but myself. Wanna know how that goes? "I want one. I can afford it. Add to basket." There, all done. I couldn't care less what anyone here or elsewhere thinks about that. Whether they think I should buy a 15" instead because I don't do anything, professionally, that requires a large screen. Nor for any other reason. Screw you guys, I'm going home. With a 17" MBP if Apple are gracious enough to keep manufacturing them. And here's hoping they are.
.tsooJ
As long as you admit you don't NEED it, I'm fine with that. Wanting one is perfectly fine. I just issue with people that say they'll buy a PC instead, or that they "can't work" on a 15".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Not for a year or so.
How do you know?
Why do you think Retina won't show up for another year on the laptops? Intel is already ready, and the OS is being optimized for Retina, according to the rumors. Seems like the perfect time to make the transition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98
Why do you think Retina won't show up for another year on the laptops? Intel is already ready, and the OS is being optimized for Retina, according to the rumors. Seems like the perfect time to make the transition.
Doesn't matter if Intel's ready. The panels aren't.
And do you really think an Intel 4000 is going to be able to push this stuff well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Doesn't matter if Intel's ready. The panels aren't.
And do you really think an Intel 4000 is going to be able to push this stuff well?
Dunno, that's why I'm asking. I thought the 4000 was finally supposed to be half decent for most usages, and what it can't handle, well there should be some discrete graphics for that right? As far as the panels are concerned, we sure none are ready? Yes there were reports of difficulties producing the iPad screens, but they managed. Is making a 13", 15" panel that much harder?
Benchmarks are becoming available and they are painting a mixed picture of Intels 4000 series GPU. It can be seen as a vast improvement over the old intel integrated GPUs, but sadly still doesn't outperform a year old AMD integrated chip. Right now it is a bit of mystery as to how the chip would perform on a high resolution screen, but indication are we would see a regression in some ways.
In any event this is why I suspect that we will see high resolution screens on the MBPs first as they have the option of a descrete GPU or a higher clocked Intel chip. Extra battery power and fewer RAM limitations also factor in.
As to panels I think it is possible that they are ready. We have manufactures that have publicly announced such screens. Further everyone has assumed that Apples agreements with various LCD makers revolves around parts for the iPad. That is certainly part of what is going on but it would be shocking to think they haven't focused some of this tech on laptops. After all going for an iPad sized screen to a 11 or 13" screen isn't a big deal. In fact if they use larger pixels it would be easier.
No one here can say for sure if high DPI screens will come to laptops this year. Personally I think it is possible from the screen standpoint, the bigger issues is driving all of those pixels.
I think if anything, if the 17-inch isn't listed in the refresh -- it's because they can't get a high rez 17" screen in a reasonable price + quantity yet.
I've been using a 15" -- after having a 17", and I feel like I'm really cramped. 3D, Video, professional graphics -- you need the screen real estate.
17" might not seem as portable -- but neither is carrying an extra monitor just so you can lay out a palette of tools.
>> I both hope and think that this rumor is bogus, and it is merely fueled by delayed shipping. A 17" Retina display is also hard to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001
As long as you admit you don't NEED it, I'm fine with that. Wanting one is perfectly fine. I just issue with people that say they'll buy a PC instead, or that they "can't work" on a 15".
Then you've got an "issue" with anyone who does 3D, Video, and high end graphics. I'm even sure spreadsheet users like larger screens. And then there are people who LIKE larger screens because they have large eyes I suppose.
I have to wonder at people who project only their own sense of what is important on the world without considering the "needs" of others. YES, we can all "get by" with a 15" -- but there are people on the fence and if they can't get a larger monitor, they might get a PC. Heck, I might be curious about creating a Hackintosh laptop if there is no 17".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner
17" might not seem as portable -- but neither is carrying an extra monitor just so you can lay out a palette of tools.
Unless it's your iPad. iPad retina + 15" hirez probably is as much usable working area as a 17" MBP.
Lag and lack of software support is the primary issue at this point but I can see a significant advantage in many (but of course not all) workflows if the tools make use of a high resolution touch screen for some things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
I've never seen one ever. All I ever see are 11, 13 and 15 inch MacBooks.
So from that I conclude
I know guys who've never seen an iPad, so I conclude nobody buys iPads
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjm3
My last three Macs have all been 17" laptops: 2005 17" PowerBook G4, 2007 17" MacBook Pro and 2008 17" MacBook Pro. I'm anxiously (and now, thanks to this ridiculous analyst's fairy tale, nervously) awaiting the next generation of Mac laptops so I can upgrade.
I've been a video professional for 13 years, and I spent the first 5 of those years using 15" PowerBooks. Moving up to 17" (once they became available) was fantastic; I never want to go down a size again.
The only other size Mac laptop I'd ever want to buy apart from 17" is 19", 21", even 27": seriously, a portfolio case I can fold over would be heaven.
I would love to have a 19" MacBook Pro. That screen realestate would be ideal for me. That being said, I wouldn't complain about a 21" either.
I have been using my 17" for about a year and a half for photo editing and spreadsheet work. To be completely honest, I find the screen size to be a bit cramped for my style. I used to use a 22" and 19" monitor combination before going mobile, which I do miss, but I have no desire to be stuck at a desk, so 17" is my option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner
I think if anything, if the 17-inch isn't listed in the refresh -- it's because they can't get a high rez 17" screen in a reasonable price + quantity yet.
I've been using a 15" -- after having a 17", and I feel like I'm really cramped. 3D, Video, professional graphics -- you need the screen real estate.
17" might not seem as portable -- but neither is carrying an extra monitor just so you can lay out a palette of tools.
>> I both hope and think that this rumor is bogus, and it is merely fueled by delayed shipping. A 17" Retina display is also hard to believe.
There are some very common themes in the things you've mentioned. They tend to have a very large number of ui elements no matter how many things you hotkey. I mean there are programs where I have 30+ hotkey combinations just to avoid losing my place visually on the screen, and even I still have to accommodate a lot of tools on the display. With anything where a large desktop display is the common format, a laptop tends to be somewhat of a compromise to efficiency. It's just that you can minimize this with a large one if you spend a lot of time away from your office. The 17" isn't bad with a laptop case. It would be annoying to transport bare without risking damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanthony
I would love to have a 19" MacBook Pro. That screen realestate would be ideal for me. That being said, I wouldn't complain about a 21" either.
I have been using my 17" for about a year and a half for photo editing and spreadsheet work. To be completely honest, I find the screen size to be a bit cramped for my style. I used to use a 22" and 19" monitor combination before going mobile, which I do miss, but I have no desire to be stuck at a desk, so 17" is my option.
You know a couple companies did try 19" laptops. They never sold well. With stuff like this it's just a balancing act. You can keep going larger until the number of people buying them is no longer sustainable. In this case there is a market. I think more of their growth went to smaller form factors, but most of the people on here have no idea how to look at data. They're just following a narrative driven by bloggers and Apple enthusiast sites.
It's also important tot realize that there are layers of speculation here. We had rumors about a potential redesign last year too. This year they're much noisier. The speculation here is that there will be a redesign and that they won't dedicate the time into making a redesigned 17" model due to faltering volume. I can't seem to find where Apple breaks these things down by product. There isn't any indication how his numbers were calculated.
Many thousands of 17" MBP are sold every quarter. They are invaluable for powerusers on Pro Tools and graphics users.
I'm on the road constantly and my 17" is a fantastic tool. I would hate to see Apple abandon the high end user, especially because it is still profitable.
I don't know how anyone here can say Apple will discontinue a product based on how many they sell when we don't know how many they sell because Apple doesn't share the sales figures between the models.