So Android manufacturers are lying about their MSRPs? Or iPhone users are paying more per month than Android users on the same plan?
IIRC most top Android phones sell for less than the iPhone when bought unlocked and out of contract, when for the same phones via the carriers the prices are equal. Android vendors are essentially sponsoring Apple through the carriers. Which makes perfect sense if you look at the profits. Apple has positioned itself to be able to drive a good bargain from the carriers.
What Samsung calls a "smartphone" is questionable. Their own figures (before they stopped reporting) showed a massive growth from 2010 to 2011 (something like 4 times). However their total phone shipments didn't increase that much year over year.
What Samsung did is "re-classify" devices that were feature phones and move them into the smartphone category. Suddenly they're reporting huge growth in smartphone sales with a corresponding decline in feature/dumb phones.
Did you know Samsung is currently selling a brand-new phone with a 2.8" 320x240 screen running Android Eclair? Not ICS, not Honeycomb, not Gingerbread, not even Froyo. Eclair. This phone doesn't even come close to an iPhone 3, yet it's still being sold as a "new" device. Samsung is also selling Windows Mobile, Win 7 and Bada phones. When Samsung sells xx million smartphones, they are not all Android devices. And within Android they are selling a crap load of cheap phones.
I'd really love for Samsung to tell us how may "high-end" devices they sell. That's a valid comparison to Apple who doesn't sell garbage phones with QVGA screens and an OS that's 5 versions behind.
<p> </p><div class="quote-container"> <span>Quote:</span> <div class="quote-block"> Originally Posted by <strong>majjo</strong> <a href="/t/149668/estimate-claims-apple-bested-samsung-by-3m-to-remain-top-smartphone-vendor#post_2101915"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <br /> <br /> Considering how many quarters Samsung have been consistantly "shipping" 30+ M phones, i don't see how this can be true. If they shipped 30M to stores Q1, and most of those didn't sell to end customers, why would the stores order another 30M the next quarter especially if no new models were introduced, as stated by the article?<br /> At steady state, i think we can safety assume shipped = sold.</div></div><p> </p><p> Except that those numbers, whether shipped or sold, are just guesses. Until Samsung actually states the number of smartphones sold these numbers are as valuable as any number I guess. My guess is that Samsung sold 3 smartphones.</p>
Yes, samsung sold 3 smartphones and made 5B in profit off of them.
First, the iPhone gets a higher subsidy than SOME Android phones. Maybe even the average Android phone. But high end Android phones get very similar subsidies.
More importantly, it's irrelevant. Sleepy said: "Its not like Samsung can rape the customer for a ridiculously high margin like Apple does and force the carriers into crazy high subsidies which they can't get out of for at least another 24 months."
Since many Android phones have a 24 month contract and high subsidies, sleepy was wrong.
Does Samsung only sell high-end phones? Can Samsung get the same subsidies as Apple? Is Samsung as influential as Apple so as to be able to dictate similar conditions? If one of your answers is "no", then Sleepy is probably right...
Samsung can clear this up by releasing actual numbers like Apple does. Instead Sammy say it's 10-20% greater than last year, which was 10-20% greater than the year before.
When Apple talks sold they generally mean to a customer and activated. Rarely are channel sales with no end user included.
Not correct. In general Apple counts the sale when the product is paid for (or committed to be paid for), whether it was paid by Verizon, Best Buy or direct sale to the end-consumer by Apple. The sales Apple reports includes units sitting in warehouses or on store shelves. If a reseller paid Apple, it was a sale as far as Apple in concerned and reported as such.
If you're an Apple stockholder read the 10K. It clearly explains how Apple determines a sale.
IIRC most top Android phones sell for less than the iPhone when bought unlocked and out of contract, when for the same phones via the carriers the prices are equal. Android vendors are essentially sponsoring Apple through the carriers. Which makes perfect sense if you look at the profits. Apple has positioned itself to be able to drive a good bargain from the carriers.
This is funny because until recently most Android fans here denied strongly it's not cheaper than iPhone (so we're not a cheapo). That's when Android *is winning*, now looks like thing is turned 360 degree because all I see is the claim iPhone is way more expensive. Very funny..
With all the reports of battery issues, GPS inaccuracy,....
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
Which planet do you live on? You don't think Samsung phones are greatly subsidized? In fact, if you look at full list price for an unlocked phone, Samsung's phones are every bit as expensive as iPhones.
That can't be. The iPhone has antenna problems, battery problems, cases that break easily, and it's a closed ecosystem. Surely Apple can't have a 3% return rate compared to Android's double digit rates...
/s
Actually what Apple did was more of QUALITY CONTROL (by having TOTAL CONTROL OF BOTH the hardware and software, APPLE ensures the EXCELLENT quality of both software and hardware and NEVER deteriorates to MEDIOCRITY like WINDOWS or FRAGMENTATION as in the case of ANDROID)...Apple is NOT a closed system since everyone and anyone can develop an app for its operating systems--the two are completely different!
Except that those numbers, whether shipped or sold, are just guesses. Until Samsung actually states the number of smartphones sold these numbers are as valuable as any number I guess. My guess is that Samsung sold 3 smartphones.
If the numbers were bigger than Apple's, Samung execs would be touting all over the tech press (like they were a couple of quarters ago). You can be 100% certain they did not sell more smartphones than Apple.
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
Hertz neverlost is consistently off by more than a city block in Manhattan. maybe there is a connection.
Surely Apple can't have a 3% return rate compared to Android's double digit rates...
Apple currently has a 3% return rate on iPhones and Android phones average double-digits?? I noted the sarcasm tag so I'll assume that wasn't meant as a factual statement.
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
It's not the maps or even the fault of Apple. It's simply a fact-of-life with GPS reception in the dense mid-town Manhattan landscape.
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
I was referring to widespread reports not isolated reports.
Apple iPhone 4S is not perfect but it is, by far, the best smartphone available today.
The Great American Food Truck Race Korean Korilla BBQ Cheating Incident "
Let me get this straight, you make blanket statements about Koreans being notorious for doctoring results by citing two examples? How old are you?
By your reasoning if I were to give 5 examples of ANY country where their individuals/companies/institutions cheated I can make blanket statements about their country.
Old enough to KNOW...how's THAT! Seems even the South Korean government under President Roh supported and protected the fraudulent veterinarian--so that is evidence number 3!
Comments
Who gives a rat's ass. #1 #2 ... it's not like Apple is hurting and is going to go out of business tomorrow.
Besides, starting in the middle of October there will no longer be any question anyway... just in case anyone thinks it actually matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So Android manufacturers are lying about their MSRPs? Or iPhone users are paying more per month than Android users on the same plan?
IIRC most top Android phones sell for less than the iPhone when bought unlocked and out of contract, when for the same phones via the carriers the prices are equal. Android vendors are essentially sponsoring Apple through the carriers. Which makes perfect sense if you look at the profits. Apple has positioned itself to be able to drive a good bargain from the carriers.
What Samsung calls a "smartphone" is questionable. Their own figures (before they stopped reporting) showed a massive growth from 2010 to 2011 (something like 4 times). However their total phone shipments didn't increase that much year over year.
What Samsung did is "re-classify" devices that were feature phones and move them into the smartphone category. Suddenly they're reporting huge growth in smartphone sales with a corresponding decline in feature/dumb phones.
Did you know Samsung is currently selling a brand-new phone with a 2.8" 320x240 screen running Android Eclair? Not ICS, not Honeycomb, not Gingerbread, not even Froyo. Eclair. This phone doesn't even come close to an iPhone 3, yet it's still being sold as a "new" device. Samsung is also selling Windows Mobile, Win 7 and Bada phones. When Samsung sells xx million smartphones, they are not all Android devices. And within Android they are selling a crap load of cheap phones.
I'd really love for Samsung to tell us how may "high-end" devices they sell. That's a valid comparison to Apple who doesn't sell garbage phones with QVGA screens and an OS that's 5 versions behind.
Yes, samsung sold 3 smartphones and made 5B in profit off of them.
/s
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
First, the iPhone gets a higher subsidy than SOME Android phones. Maybe even the average Android phone. But high end Android phones get very similar subsidies.
More importantly, it's irrelevant. Sleepy said: "Its not like Samsung can rape the customer for a ridiculously high margin like Apple does and force the carriers into crazy high subsidies which they can't get out of for at least another 24 months."
Since many Android phones have a 24 month contract and high subsidies, sleepy was wrong.
Does Samsung only sell high-end phones? Can Samsung get the same subsidies as Apple? Is Samsung as influential as Apple so as to be able to dictate similar conditions? If one of your answers is "no", then Sleepy is probably right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio
Does Samsung only sell high-end phones?
Only the smartphones matter, however.
Quote:
Can Samsung get the same subsidies as Apple?
Yes, as evidenced by the price to MSRP ratios of Samsung phones.
Quote:
Is Samsung as influential as Apple so as to be able to dictate similar conditions?
Yes, as evidenced by Samsung's ability to put their own software on phones, get identical subsidies, and dictate how they're sold.
Samsung can clear this up by releasing actual numbers like Apple does. Instead Sammy say it's 10-20% greater than last year, which was 10-20% greater than the year before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Only the smartphones matter, however.
Yes, as evidenced by the price to MSRP ratios of Samsung phones.
Yes, as evidenced by Samsung's ability to put their own software on phones, get identical subsidies, and dictate how they're sold.
Good to know you think so highly of Samsung's standing
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
When Apple talks sold they generally mean to a customer and activated. Rarely are channel sales with no end user included.
Not correct. In general Apple counts the sale when the product is paid for (or committed to be paid for), whether it was paid by Verizon, Best Buy or direct sale to the end-consumer by Apple. The sales Apple reports includes units sitting in warehouses or on store shelves. If a reseller paid Apple, it was a sale as far as Apple in concerned and reported as such.
If you're an Apple stockholder read the 10K. It clearly explains how Apple determines a sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio
IIRC most top Android phones sell for less than the iPhone when bought unlocked and out of contract, when for the same phones via the carriers the prices are equal. Android vendors are essentially sponsoring Apple through the carriers. Which makes perfect sense if you look at the profits. Apple has positioned itself to be able to drive a good bargain from the carriers.
This is funny because until recently most Android fans here denied strongly it's not cheaper than iPhone (so we're not a cheapo). That's when Android *is winning*, now looks like thing is turned 360 degree because all I see is the claim iPhone is way more expensive. Very funny..
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
With all the reports of battery issues, GPS inaccuracy,....
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Which planet do you live on? You don't think Samsung phones are greatly subsidized? In fact, if you look at full list price for an unlocked phone, Samsung's phones are every bit as expensive as iPhones.
That can't be. The iPhone has antenna problems, battery problems, cases that break easily, and it's a closed ecosystem. Surely Apple can't have a 3% return rate compared to Android's double digit rates...
/s
Actually what Apple did was more of QUALITY CONTROL (by having TOTAL CONTROL OF BOTH the hardware and software, APPLE ensures the EXCELLENT quality of both software and hardware and NEVER deteriorates to MEDIOCRITY like WINDOWS or FRAGMENTATION as in the case of ANDROID)...Apple is NOT a closed system since everyone and anyone can develop an app for its operating systems--the two are completely different!
Unfortunately for Koreans, they have a notorious reputation of 'doctoring' results--remember Hwang Woo-Suk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-suk
The Great American Food Truck Race Korean Korilla BBQ Cheating Incident
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Except that those numbers, whether shipped or sold, are just guesses. Until Samsung actually states the number of smartphones sold these numbers are as valuable as any number I guess. My guess is that Samsung sold 3 smartphones.
If the numbers were bigger than Apple's, Samung execs would be touting all over the tech press (like they were a couple of quarters ago). You can be 100% certain they did not sell more smartphones than Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
Hertz neverlost is consistently off by more than a city block in Manhattan. maybe there is a connection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Surely Apple can't have a 3% return rate compared to Android's double digit rates...
Apple currently has a 3% return rate on iPhones and Android phones average double-digits?? I noted the sarcasm tag so I'll assume that wasn't meant as a factual statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
Apple or Google map data?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
It's not the maps or even the fault of Apple. It's simply a fact-of-life with GPS reception in the dense mid-town Manhattan landscape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.
Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.
I was referring to widespread reports not isolated reports.
Apple iPhone 4S is not perfect but it is, by far, the best smartphone available today.
"Unfortunately for Koreans, they have a notorious reputation of 'doctoring' results--remember Hwang Woo-Suk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-suk
The Great American Food Truck Race Korean Korilla BBQ Cheating Incident "
Let me get this straight, you make blanket statements about Koreans being notorious for doctoring results by citing two examples? How old are you?
By your reasoning if I were to give 5 examples of ANY country where their individuals/companies/institutions cheated I can make blanket statements about their country.
Old enough to KNOW...how's THAT! Seems even the South Korean government under President Roh supported and protected the fraudulent veterinarian--so that is evidence number 3!