Also, I find the sudden appearance of the article in the NY Times amusing considering the deep ocean of trouble their owner, Rupert Murdoch, is currently floundering (with regards to the wiretap scandal in England).
Murdoch has no ownership of the NY Times. His company News Corp. owns the Wall Street Journal.
The reason we have a deficit is that spending has outstripped income, for individuals as well as the government. Did people really think they could spend with abandon forever?
We are being eaten alive by 3 factors. First it is cost efficient to pay a lobbyist for business rather than create a product that is in demand from the public. 2 it is always possible to pay for tax deductions, and credits by adding a few dollars to the hat of some congressman. 3 It is hard work to produce a good and productive enterprise and it is much easier to shirk this responsibility if you are in government. If you assume that government cannot do anything then you are as bad as someone who believes that government should do everything. You are making it easier to justify all 3 of the above behaviors. We need good government. When this means smaller then by all means lets cut it out, but no one with any economic sense would want to kill all the productive research and development that the government has been doing for our country over the last 50 years.
The reason we have a deficit is spending has increased and income has been cut because both of these are popular decisions. We need leaders who are willing to make unpopular decisions or more people who are willing to change the system we have because if we ignore the problem it will destroy the most productive society in the history of mankind.
Besides, the entire premise of the claim is wrong.
Apple's income taxes are only part of the equation. As long as Apple is legally calculating and filing their taxes, no one has any right to complain. But beyond that:
Sales taxes. Apple sells well over $100 B in products a year. Let's assume that the average sales tax rate is 5% (obviously, it's zero in some places, but as high as 17% or more in parts of Europe). That's $5,000,000,000 in sales taxes from selling Apple products.
Then, Apple will be issuing a dividend this year. I'm not going to look up the number, but say it's $20 B. If the average recipient pays 30%, that's another $6,000,000,000 in income taxes.
Add in 30,000 direct employees. When you add income taxes, employment taxes, etc, that's probably close to another $1,000,000,000.
Finally, all the indirect jobs created. Apple claims as many as 500,000, so multiple that last figure by 10.
Clearly, the government is getting a lot of tax revenue based on Apple's success. The whiners really need to just shut the heck up. If there's a problem with the tax code, then they should lobby the government to fix it. But singling out one company and chastising them for not paying more taxes than legally required is asinine. And, btw, how about if all the executives at the NYT publish their tax returns and show us how much more tax they paid than they were legally required to.
Actually Apple might be viewed as terribly inefficient and wasteful, since it has far more money than it knows what to do with. I believe Tim Cook said so himself.
Oh, dear, I hadn't noticed Apple moved its HQ out of California.
You know what I meant. You think it's a loophole that Apple chose to move some of its business to Nevada because the tax rate is lower. I'm asking how you suggest the "loophole" be closed? Should the government force them to do business in CA?
You know what I meant. You think it's a loophole that Apple chose to move some of its business to Nevada because the tax rate is lower. I'm asking how you suggest the "loophole" be closed? Should the government force them to do business in CA?
What proportion of Apple's operating budget is spent in California? Perhaps that would make a good basis for computing the taxes they should pay on their profits.
Did Apple remember to subtract the millions of jobs they have caused to be lost at RIM, HP and others around the world? And all the associated small independent companies that have gone bankrupt because there aren't enough handsets/tablets sold to support them developing the necessary software for those OS's?
<p> </p><div class="quote-container"> <span>Quote:</span> <div class="quote-block"> Originally Posted by <strong>SpamSandwich</strong> <a href="/t/149722/apple-accused-of-sidestepping-taxes-company-counters-by-touting-job-creation/40#post_2102809"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <br /> <p> Also, I find the sudden appearance of the article in the NY Times amusing considering the deep ocean of trouble their owner, Rupert Murdoch, is currently floundering (with regards to the wiretap scandal in England).</p> </div></div><p> </p><p> Murdoch has no ownership of the NY Times. His company News Corp. owns the Wall Street Journal.</p>
Darn it! Right when I thought I had that one nailed! Of course you are correct.
It is the disgusting habit of humans who covet or wish to hold power with the help of those that do, to berate and attempt to destroy the successful. All too often the attacks are illogical and contrary to the best interests of those who make them. Apple obviously greatly benefits this country to an incredible degree be it in taxes paid and generated by sales, employment of tens of thousands, support businesses or the national trade deficit. It becomes ironical when liberal minded people or companies become the target of such attacks. I often wonder why businesses and CEOs are so often targets yet hollywood and the athletically inclined who are paid tens of millions for producing nothing but entertainment are given a free pass.
We are well into becoming Bizarro World where logic is contrary.
It's amazing how we all talk about free market and when one is successful and does very well, we all have to start complaining about it. Why wasn't NY Times looking into this practice when Apple was in dumps. Come on, every MNC are doing this. Sometime I think out own media is our own enemy!
We are being eaten alive by 3 factors. First it is cost efficient to pay a lobbyist for business rather than create a product that is in demand from the public. 2 it is always possible to pay for tax deductions, and credits by adding a few dollars to the hat of some congressman. 3 It is hard work to produce a good and productive enterprise and it is much easier to shirk this responsibility if you are in government. If you assume that government cannot do anything then you are as bad as someone who believes that government should do everything. You are making it easier to justify all 3 of the above behaviors. We need good government. When this means smaller then by all means lets cut it out, but no one with any economic sense would want to kill all the productive research and development that the government has been doing for our country over the last 50 years.
The reason we have a deficit is spending has increased and income has been cut because both of these are popular decisions. We need leaders who are willing to make unpopular decisions or more people who are willing to change the system we have because if we ignore the problem it will destroy the most productive society in the history of mankind.
Gee, maybe California should consider lowering its ridiculous tax rate instead of complaining about Nevada.
Perhaps Apple should just move to Nevada or better yet move to Ireland or somewhere more friendlier to corporations..
Apple should just ignore. The way I see it, this is nothing more than a political kabuki theatre. The mainstream media and liberals are gearing up to blame "tax dodgers" like Apple and GE, for the impending fiscal crisis - largely caused by years and decades of out-of-control deficit / debt liberal welfare / warfare spending. Alas, companies like Apple are perfect scapegoats for politicians' mismanagement of the economy.
Imagine the vitriol had the article stated Apple paid more taxes than required by tax law.
Apple's contribution to America reaches far beyond the tax revenue they generate. Innovation is far more important.
Note to Obama: Please stop berating the wealthy and successful. They do good things for this country. We need enough regulation to create a level playing field. After that, get out of the way and allow American ingenuity to thrive.
Wow the country which once revolted because of being taxed is now the heaviest taxer in the world! Today we revolt when others don't do as they should and bend over, as it were, for the King and his military.
I'm sure our forefathers are spinning in their graves.
Did Apple remember to subtract the millions of jobs they have caused to be lost at RIM, HP and others around the world? And all the associated small independent companies that have gone bankrupt because there aren't enough handsets/tablets sold to support them developing the necessary software for those OS's?
Well, RIM is Canadian, Samsung (South Korea), HTC (Taiwan), Nokia (Finland).. Motorola was already in decline, so it wouldn't have mattered much. On the other hand, Apple's contractor Foxconn hires hundreds of thousands of workers in China, so it's net positive.
Who decides what constitutes fair? Some liberal wankers at the New York Slimes?...
The people criticizing Apple are anti-American...
I wouldn't even wipe my ass with the New York Slimes, as I'd probably catch some nasty liberal disease from it.
I am speechless. The ignorance, intolerance, and utterly disgusting and childish posts on this site are just too much sometimes.
To the rest of you arguing Apple greatly benefits America (and thus sidestepping/dodging taxes is completely fine), you should at least consider how our government and society have benefited Apple. Educating its employees, providing a secure environment, constructing infrastructure, and much more. Of course Apple benefits America. Nobody is arguing they don't. And yes, it's legal to evade taxes. Just maybe they shouldn't. That, or the loopholes should be closed. Something to consider.
And please, a little civility and respect. Insults and petty appeals to emotion don't strengthen your argument - it just makes you look uneducated and immature. Not everyone that disagrees with you is anti-American, a socialist, or a wanker. Thanks.
Steve Jobs could get those who work for them to do the impossible, but apparently making stuff in the USA and paying their fair share of taxes wasn't one of them.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Also, I find the sudden appearance of the article in the NY Times amusing considering the deep ocean of trouble their owner, Rupert Murdoch, is currently floundering (with regards to the wiretap scandal in England).
Murdoch has no ownership of the NY Times. His company News Corp. owns the Wall Street Journal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
The reason we have a deficit is that spending has outstripped income, for individuals as well as the government. Did people really think they could spend with abandon forever?
We are being eaten alive by 3 factors. First it is cost efficient to pay a lobbyist for business rather than create a product that is in demand from the public. 2 it is always possible to pay for tax deductions, and credits by adding a few dollars to the hat of some congressman. 3 It is hard work to produce a good and productive enterprise and it is much easier to shirk this responsibility if you are in government. If you assume that government cannot do anything then you are as bad as someone who believes that government should do everything. You are making it easier to justify all 3 of the above behaviors. We need good government. When this means smaller then by all means lets cut it out, but no one with any economic sense would want to kill all the productive research and development that the government has been doing for our country over the last 50 years.
The reason we have a deficit is spending has increased and income has been cut because both of these are popular decisions. We need leaders who are willing to make unpopular decisions or more people who are willing to change the system we have because if we ignore the problem it will destroy the most productive society in the history of mankind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Apple should tell them to pound sand.
Besides, the entire premise of the claim is wrong.
Apple's income taxes are only part of the equation. As long as Apple is legally calculating and filing their taxes, no one has any right to complain. But beyond that:
Sales taxes. Apple sells well over $100 B in products a year. Let's assume that the average sales tax rate is 5% (obviously, it's zero in some places, but as high as 17% or more in parts of Europe). That's $5,000,000,000 in sales taxes from selling Apple products.
Then, Apple will be issuing a dividend this year. I'm not going to look up the number, but say it's $20 B. If the average recipient pays 30%, that's another $6,000,000,000 in income taxes.
Add in 30,000 direct employees. When you add income taxes, employment taxes, etc, that's probably close to another $1,000,000,000.
Finally, all the indirect jobs created. Apple claims as many as 500,000, so multiple that last figure by 10.
Clearly, the government is getting a lot of tax revenue based on Apple's success. The whiners really need to just shut the heck up. If there's a problem with the tax code, then they should lobby the government to fix it. But singling out one company and chastising them for not paying more taxes than legally required is asinine. And, btw, how about if all the executives at the NYT publish their tax returns and show us how much more tax they paid than they were legally required to.
Actually Apple might be viewed as terribly inefficient and wasteful, since it has far more money than it knows what to do with. I believe Tim Cook said so himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro
Oh, dear, I hadn't noticed Apple moved its HQ out of California.
You know what I meant. You think it's a loophole that Apple chose to move some of its business to Nevada because the tax rate is lower. I'm asking how you suggest the "loophole" be closed? Should the government force them to do business in CA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyouneed
You know what I meant. You think it's a loophole that Apple chose to move some of its business to Nevada because the tax rate is lower. I'm asking how you suggest the "loophole" be closed? Should the government force them to do business in CA?
What proportion of Apple's operating budget is spent in California? Perhaps that would make a good basis for computing the taxes they should pay on their profits.
Just a thought.
Did Apple remember to subtract the millions of jobs they have caused to be lost at RIM, HP and others around the world? And all the associated small independent companies that have gone bankrupt because there aren't enough handsets/tablets sold to support them developing the necessary software for those OS's?
Darn it! Right when I thought I had that one nailed! Of course you are correct.
It is the disgusting habit of humans who covet or wish to hold power with the help of those that do, to berate and attempt to destroy the successful. All too often the attacks are illogical and contrary to the best interests of those who make them. Apple obviously greatly benefits this country to an incredible degree be it in taxes paid and generated by sales, employment of tens of thousands, support businesses or the national trade deficit. It becomes ironical when liberal minded people or companies become the target of such attacks. I often wonder why businesses and CEOs are so often targets yet hollywood and the athletically inclined who are paid tens of millions for producing nothing but entertainment are given a free pass.
We are well into becoming Bizarro World where logic is contrary.
It's amazing how we all talk about free market and when one is successful and does very well, we all have to start complaining about it. Why wasn't NY Times looking into this practice when Apple was in dumps. Come on, every MNC are doing this. Sometime I think out own media is our own enemy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie
We are being eaten alive by 3 factors. First it is cost efficient to pay a lobbyist for business rather than create a product that is in demand from the public. 2 it is always possible to pay for tax deductions, and credits by adding a few dollars to the hat of some congressman. 3 It is hard work to produce a good and productive enterprise and it is much easier to shirk this responsibility if you are in government. If you assume that government cannot do anything then you are as bad as someone who believes that government should do everything. You are making it easier to justify all 3 of the above behaviors. We need good government. When this means smaller then by all means lets cut it out, but no one with any economic sense would want to kill all the productive research and development that the government has been doing for our country over the last 50 years.
The reason we have a deficit is spending has increased and income has been cut because both of these are popular decisions. We need leaders who are willing to make unpopular decisions or more people who are willing to change the system we have because if we ignore the problem it will destroy the most productive society in the history of mankind.
Sorry, what "research and development"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDogHasFleas
Gee, maybe California should consider lowering its ridiculous tax rate instead of complaining about Nevada.
Or maybe they should just legalize gambling and prostitution. Screw Nevada.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDogHasFleas
Gee, maybe California should consider lowering its ridiculous tax rate instead of complaining about Nevada.
Perhaps Apple should just move to Nevada or better yet move to Ireland or somewhere more friendlier to corporations..
Apple should just ignore. The way I see it, this is nothing more than a political kabuki theatre. The mainstream media and liberals are gearing up to blame "tax dodgers" like Apple and GE, for the impending fiscal crisis - largely caused by years and decades of out-of-control deficit / debt liberal welfare / warfare spending. Alas, companies like Apple are perfect scapegoats for politicians' mismanagement of the economy.
Imagine the vitriol had the article stated Apple paid more taxes than required by tax law.
Apple's contribution to America reaches far beyond the tax revenue they generate. Innovation is far more important.
Note to Obama: Please stop berating the wealthy and successful. They do good things for this country. We need enough regulation to create a level playing field. After that, get out of the way and allow American ingenuity to thrive.
Wow the country which once revolted because of being taxed is now the heaviest taxer in the world! Today we revolt when others don't do as they should and bend over, as it were, for the King and his military.
I'm sure our forefathers are spinning in their graves.
At one point, there wasn't any income tax either in the US. It was Unconstitutional to tax one's wages. Interest income was however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon
Did Apple remember to subtract the millions of jobs they have caused to be lost at RIM, HP and others around the world? And all the associated small independent companies that have gone bankrupt because there aren't enough handsets/tablets sold to support them developing the necessary software for those OS's?
Well, RIM is Canadian, Samsung (South Korea), HTC (Taiwan), Nokia (Finland).. Motorola was already in decline, so it wouldn't have mattered much. On the other hand, Apple's contractor Foxconn hires hundreds of thousands of workers in China, so it's net positive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Who decides what constitutes fair? Some liberal wankers at the New York Slimes?...
The people criticizing Apple are anti-American...
I wouldn't even wipe my ass with the New York Slimes, as I'd probably catch some nasty liberal disease from it.
I am speechless. The ignorance, intolerance, and utterly disgusting and childish posts on this site are just too much sometimes.
To the rest of you arguing Apple greatly benefits America (and thus sidestepping/dodging taxes is completely fine), you should at least consider how our government and society have benefited Apple. Educating its employees, providing a secure environment, constructing infrastructure, and much more. Of course Apple benefits America. Nobody is arguing they don't. And yes, it's legal to evade taxes. Just maybe they shouldn't. That, or the loopholes should be closed. Something to consider.
And please, a little civility and respect. Insults and petty appeals to emotion don't strengthen your argument - it just makes you look uneducated and immature. Not everyone that disagrees with you is anti-American, a socialist, or a wanker. Thanks.
let hope not.....