Would it have been that difficult for people to read the specs of the product they are buying before spending money?
Apple quite clearly advertises the capabilities of the product. And they are quite clear that they don't offer LTE in the UK. Why are regulators spending so much time and money protecting stupid, lazy consumers?
You're always going to have dumb consumers, or people looking to make a buck by suing someone. Don't make it easier for them. Just make sure no website or package sticker references 4G outside of North America.
No that's not clear at all. 2/3 of the LTE subscribers in the world are in the US, so they may have added LTE support sooner than they wanted to in order to remain competitive in the US. Since LTE isn't as widespread outside the US, they are not at a competitive disadvantage by not offering LTE. Note that the iPads use old LTE chipsets that draw a lot of power. Apple doesn't use them in the iPhone for that reason. I suspect that the new iPhone and next year's iPad will have LTE chipsets that support more markets.
What Apple did do for Europe was add support for HSPA+21 and DC-HSDPA (42MBps), which run about as fast as our LTE networks do here and do use the full capacity of Europe's 3G networks (which earlier devices did not). Note that there are no DC-HSDPA networks in the US.
Semantics are way more enraging than real world performance.
You're always going to have dumb consumers, or people looking to make a buck by suing someone. Don't make it easier for them. Just make sure no website or package sticker references 4G outside of North America.
I felt like it was explained pretty clearly right here on this forum that LTE != 4G. You should read things more carefully before forming such a sincere opinion.
<p> </p><div class="quote-container"> <span>Quote:</span> <div class="quote-block"> Originally Posted by <strong>AppleInsider</strong> <a href="/t/149764/uk-regulator-investigating-4g-advertising-of-apples-new-ipad#post_2103351"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <br /> <vc><strong>The U.K. Advertising Standards Authority is said to have taken issue with Apple's advertising of the new iPad as a "4G" device, <u>even though it is not compatible with long-term evolution networks in the country</u>.</strong></vc></div></div><p> </p><p> Maybe that is because there are currently<u> NO LTE SERVICES</u> in the UK. Ha ha, total fail by the ASA.</p><p> </p><p> I hope that they see a proof of purchase from the people levying complaints, otherwise they are open to trolling.</p>
I think they are referring to the LTE standards that will eventually be introduced, which will be identical to that used in continental Europe and Australia.
The whole LTE frequency setup is a mess.
Australia have 1 LTE network on 1800mhz. They are looking at using 700mhz (which would be compatible) but this is currently used by analogue TV.
Europe has pegged 800mhz for LTE but currently the networks have been fighting over spectrum with many carriers unable to gain access to the 800mhz spectrum (it offers far greater coverage) and will lead to spotty coverage.
In the end there will be 38 flavours of LTE. It's worse than the current 3G services.
The best bet for customers is to pickup a phone/tablet which will work with your current network and forget about LTE till it all shakes out in a couple of years.
I sure don't want my car showing me speeds of higher than 35MPH on my speedometer, that's for sure. It's not like it can go faster than that, and it's not like I'll ever be anywhere I can drive faster than that.
Bogus analogy. And the fact that Apple did update their websites means they know it was a bonehead mistake. Maybe product packaging might have been more costly/difficult, but it certainly doesn't cost anything or take much effort to not mention 4G on a website does it? I went to Samsung's UK site and none of their tablets reference 4G, they all say 3G. But on their US site they do use 4G terminology.
Source in black and white please? Nowhere does it spell out HSPA+ as 4G. I only see this in a press release, which is hardly some standard.
"ITU has determined that “LTE-Advanced” and “WirelessMAN-Advanced” should be accorded the official designation of IMT-Advanced. As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as “4G”, although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed"
"In an about face, the International Telecommunications Union has expanded the term 4G to include WiMAX, LTE and HSPA+. "
So, the most relevant International organization involved with such things says that HSPA+ is 4G. So Apple's position is consistent. And that's even before you consider that they specifically state in their literature that LTE only works in the US and Canada.
Wrong. ITC defines 4G to include HSPA+. Since Sweden and most of the other countries listed have HSPA+, they meet the standard international definition of 4G. So unless you live in a country which specifically requires LTE for something to be 4G (with Australia being the only one I can think of), Apple's 4G claim is accurate.
And even in Australia, they explain the technologies they offer and have offered a full refund to anyone who wants it, so there are no damages to speak of.
Research before you post before calling others wrong.. I gave you countries that call their 4G service LTE.
Research before you post before calling others wrong.. I gave you countries that call their 4G service LTE.
I didn't see it, but it's irrelevant. I don't care whether they call it blue cheese on crumpets. Unless it is legislatively mandated that ONLY LTE can be called 4G, then Apple is well within its rights to use the ITU definition. Furthermore, given your history, I am confident that you never provided any links to back up your assertion.
But feel free to provide links showing countries that require that ONLY LTE can be called 4G. And then show us what Apple's advertising says in those countries.
Legislatively mandated. . . hmmmm. . . . oookay then. Nothing about HESPA, LTE, 4G, 3G or any other protocol is legislatively mandated. Nice word play there Jragosta...
Legislatively mandated. . . hmmmm. . . . oookay then. Nothing about HESPA, LTE, 4G, 3G or any other protocol is legislatively mandated. Nice word play there Jragosta...
Except in Australia as I said.
That is, nothing Apple did was illegal - or even wrong. They used the standard, accepted industry definition for 4G. (Not matter how much you want to whine and pretend that Apple's evil).
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Would it have been that difficult for people to read the specs of the product they are buying before spending money?
Apple quite clearly advertises the capabilities of the product. And they are quite clear that they don't offer LTE in the UK. Why are regulators spending so much time and money protecting stupid, lazy consumers?
You're always going to have dumb consumers, or people looking to make a buck by suing someone. Don't make it easier for them. Just make sure no website or package sticker references 4G outside of North America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM
No that's not clear at all. 2/3 of the LTE subscribers in the world are in the US, so they may have added LTE support sooner than they wanted to in order to remain competitive in the US. Since LTE isn't as widespread outside the US, they are not at a competitive disadvantage by not offering LTE. Note that the iPads use old LTE chipsets that draw a lot of power. Apple doesn't use them in the iPhone for that reason. I suspect that the new iPhone and next year's iPad will have LTE chipsets that support more markets.
What Apple did do for Europe was add support for HSPA+21 and DC-HSDPA (42MBps), which run about as fast as our LTE networks do here and do use the full capacity of Europe's 3G networks (which earlier devices did not). Note that there are no DC-HSDPA networks in the US.
Semantics are way more enraging than real world performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
You're always going to have dumb consumers, or people looking to make a buck by suing someone. Don't make it easier for them. Just make sure no website or package sticker references 4G outside of North America.
I felt like it was explained pretty clearly right here on this forum that LTE != 4G. You should read things more carefully before forming such a sincere opinion.
The whole LTE frequency setup is a mess.
Australia have 1 LTE network on 1800mhz. They are looking at using 700mhz (which would be compatible) but this is currently used by analogue TV.
Europe has pegged 800mhz for LTE but currently the networks have been fighting over spectrum with many carriers unable to gain access to the 800mhz spectrum (it offers far greater coverage) and will lead to spotty coverage.
In the end there will be 38 flavours of LTE. It's worse than the current 3G services.
The best bet for customers is to pickup a phone/tablet which will work with your current network and forget about LTE till it all shakes out in a couple of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I sure don't want my car showing me speeds of higher than 35MPH on my speedometer, that's for sure. It's not like it can go faster than that, and it's not like I'll ever be anywhere I can drive faster than that.
Bogus analogy. And the fact that Apple did update their websites means they know it was a bonehead mistake. Maybe product packaging might have been more costly/difficult, but it certainly doesn't cost anything or take much effort to not mention 4G on a website does it? I went to Samsung's UK site and none of their tablets reference 4G, they all say 3G. But on their US site they do use 4G terminology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
Source in black and white please? Nowhere does it spell out HSPA+ as 4G. I only see this in a press release, which is hardly some standard.
"ITU has determined that “LTE-Advanced” and “WirelessMAN-Advanced” should be accorded the official designation of IMT-Advanced. As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as “4G”, although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed"
http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx
Sorry, it's ITU, not ITC as I said. But here's the reference:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/12/18/itu-reverses-its-decision-lte-wimax-and-hspa-are-now-4g/
"In an about face, the International Telecommunications Union has expanded the term 4G to include WiMAX, LTE and HSPA+. "
So, the most relevant International organization involved with such things says that HSPA+ is 4G. So Apple's position is consistent. And that's even before you consider that they specifically state in their literature that LTE only works in the US and Canada.
Jaguar XJ220?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Wrong. ITC defines 4G to include HSPA+. Since Sweden and most of the other countries listed have HSPA+, they meet the standard international definition of 4G. So unless you live in a country which specifically requires LTE for something to be 4G (with Australia being the only one I can think of), Apple's 4G claim is accurate.
And even in Australia, they explain the technologies they offer and have offered a full refund to anyone who wants it, so there are no damages to speak of.
Research before you post before calling others wrong.. I gave you countries that call their 4G service LTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Research before you post before calling others wrong.. I gave you countries that call their 4G service LTE.
I didn't see it, but it's irrelevant. I don't care whether they call it blue cheese on crumpets. Unless it is legislatively mandated that ONLY LTE can be called 4G, then Apple is well within its rights to use the ITU definition. Furthermore, given your history, I am confident that you never provided any links to back up your assertion.
But feel free to provide links showing countries that require that ONLY LTE can be called 4G. And then show us what Apple's advertising says in those countries.
Legislatively mandated. . . hmmmm. . . . oookay then. Nothing about HESPA, LTE, 4G, 3G or any other protocol is legislatively mandated. Nice word play there Jragosta...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Legislatively mandated. . . hmmmm. . . . oookay then. Nothing about HESPA, LTE, 4G, 3G or any other protocol is legislatively mandated. Nice word play there Jragosta...
Except in Australia as I said.
That is, nothing Apple did was illegal - or even wrong. They used the standard, accepted industry definition for 4G. (Not matter how much you want to whine and pretend that Apple's evil).