Reported. Not the IQ required for evaluating reality.
Please clarify. I see nothing in the post you replied to that justifies that kind of an insult.
Also, calling (or implying) another poster dumb is often infraction worthy, and it is not an appropriate reply. I don't agree that Tallest's post is report worthy.
Except they can. Because they do. Because no one cares enough to stop them, and the people in charge of stopping them are being paid off by the people doing the un-stopping.
Pretty much, yes. At least "they" effectively stopped the AT&T/T-Mobile merger. There was pretty much no common sense argument for allowing that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie
Uh, yes.
De-regulation is the cause of most of this country's problems. We literally would not be in this mess were it not for de-regulation.
That is completely false, and the result wrongheaded thinking. In most cases, government intervention ("regulation") is the cause of problems. This is not to say that we should end all regulation, of course. But in so many cases, the government ends up stifling innovation. Ask many people why the economy nearly collapsed in 2008, and if you don't get "Bush" you'll get "deregulation." In fact, the oppose is true. The government started meddling in the markets with Community Reinvestment Act in 1970s, and expanded that meddling with it's re-authorization in the 1990s. Banks were forced to make questionable loans ('sub primes") by the government, which in turn was being shaken down by the likes of Jesse Jackson et al. The result? A subprime mortgage crisis that infected nearly the entire economy. I'm not trying to get political here, but in all seriousness..."deregulation" is not the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Please clarify. I see nothing in the post you replied to that justifies that kind of an insult.
Also, calling (or implying) another poster dumb is often infraction worthy, and it is not an appropriate reply. I don't agree that Tallest's post is report worthy.
Just a word of thanks for being an evenhanded mod, Jeff. I agree with you after having read both posts.
We're Americans. We're incredible at this sort of thing. It's the last few decades that these idiots (not just the telecoms) have become complacent and lazy.
The last few decades - well that would account for quite a large part of your american history!
In the mobile broadband history the last few decades would be enough to say the entire history of mobile broadband.
I must say that you have some work to be done in this area but you are also a huge country to cover.
The comment about alternative texting services makes me the most mad. After shoving their malformed corporate member in their customer's metaphorical pooper for years, complaining about competition is like whining that they aren't allowed to splatter love chowder in our hair. AT&T, you are an abusive company undeserving of sympathy.
Instead of conceptualizing and implementing new compelling services AT&T's management seems to bemoan that new demands are being placed on their network and this will force them to invest in equipment.
Unlimited data at least cleared the way for new applications to take hold, like e-commerce (that is still struggling in this country). AT&T's CEO lack of vision is astounding - charge $0.25 for a text? Really?
This is the sort of boneheaded monopolistic thinking that has turned the US into a telecom third world country that lags in innovation. If the AT&T CEO has no vision his shareholders should get rid of him, he can be replaced by a $30 adding machine.
1. Your texts cost you $0.00.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to send. You charge us $20 for a couple hundred. Screw you.
2. Yeah, unlimited data was a mistake; you're either too stupid or too inept to build out your network properly to meet the demand of modern society. Look at Japan. They're proof that it's possible and you're lying.
The problem is that demand has grown faster than anyone could ever foresee and keep up with.
No one ever thought we'd use our devices to watch Netflix, Hulu, HBO, or use it as a wifi hotspot.
You can't compare Japan and the US without taking land mass and population into consideration.
The problem is that demand has grown faster than anyone could ever… …keep up with.
The Japanese, South Koreans, and Scandinavians are doing all right.
Quote:
No one ever thought we'd use our devices to watch Netflix, Hulu, HBO, or use it as a wifi hotspot.
The people who came up with the ideas for them did. The only problem lies in the fact that these people didn't work for the telecoms at the time.
Quote:
You can't compare Japan and the US without taking land mass and population into consideration.
I don't much see what population has to do with it, but size is, admittedly, a valid consideration.
Except when you take into account that we've blanketed the country three times over with more towers than we actually need since the companies can't agree on a format.
1.The difference is that Apple is making products that people are free to choose and willing to pay a premium for while cellular carriers are providing a service that people are forced to pay for in order to use those devices and those service providers believe that if they are not making a similar premium then they are losing money.
2.Imagine buying a premium automobile and paying extra because you want the additional features/reliability/ease of use/etc only to discover that when you go to the gas station you get charged more per gallon than the economy car next to you - or the toll road owners complaining that they are unable to charge you more each time you use the toll road just because you use it more often than some other car. Or the toll road offering an unlimited pass and then complaining that usage of the roadway has increased to a point where they need to repair the roadway more often.
3.Or perhaps this is in part a problem of consumers' perception - since I am choosing to buy a premium product (the iPhone) I accept having to pay a premium - but since I don't consider the cellular service a premium service (esp when there was no option) then I don;t think I should have to pay a premium for that service.
1. You are free to use the iPod Touch. You are free to use a service provider that doesn't "screw" you like you don't want to be. You are pissing uphill, if you don't like it then don't use it. No one it forcing you to buy anything and if you want to pout, go pout to Apple. They are selling their wares to the "evil" corporation that you're "forced" to use. Aren't they a little responsible for the outcome?
2. You and every other person paints this horrible picture, but it doesn't exist (first sentence). Toll road owners complain all the time about not being able to raise charges! When they can't raise fast passes they raise individual gate fees. Do you own a car? Are you even an adult? The fact that you act like this doesn't happen means you must not own a car. Piss and moan all you want about having a "premium device" and all the "horrible" things that the carriers do to you. If you don't like it, don't buy it. How hard is that to understand?
3. Then quit whining about it and don't buy the service!
1.The Japanese, South Koreans, and Scandinavians are doing all right.
2.The people who came up with the ideas for them did. The only problem lies in the fact that these people didn't work for the telecoms at the time.
3.I don't much see what population has to do with it, but size is, admittedly, a valid consideration.
Except when you take into account that we've blanketed the country three times over with more towers than we actually need since the companies can't agree on a format.
1.You're comparing different land masses and population densities in Europe with the US? Really? Have you ever taken a geography class? Are you an elementary student? Crack open a world atlas at some point in your life. Everything isn't perfect over there either, Britain has it's own share of problems (which wasn't given as an example but it still valid). Doesn't help that the iPhone 4 has also had(s) serious flaws in the design that highlighted weak spots in the networks worldwide and not just AT&T. How did you become a moderator with that level of ignorance?
2. Your point? 60 million people hammering a network at once is just no big deal right? I don't want to sound like I'm defending AT&T but your argument and most others are of whiny children that want their data yesterday. I know AT&T has done a shitty job, I hate them more than most probably. But just because extremely population dense Japan does it has no bearing on what the US can do.
3. Population density. You're unbelievable. Size is "admittedly" a valid consideration? How do you survive being so clueless and wearing such awful blinders? Or is it just your usual act where you spread your awfulness across all Apple sites?
1.You're comparing different land masses and population densities in Europe with the US. Everything isn't perfect over there either, Britain has it's own share of problems (which wasn't given as an example but it still valid).
So explain why, when this country is already covered with cell towers of different protocols and frequencies, we still have this problem.
Quote:
Doesn't help that the iPhone 4 has also had(s) serious flaws in the design that highlighted weak spots in the networks worldwide and not just AT&T. How did you become a moderator with that level of ignorance?
2. Your point? 60 million people hammering a network at once is just no big deal right? I don't want to sound like I'm defending AT&T but your argument and most others are of whiny children that want their data yesterday. I know AT&T has done a shitty job, I hate them more than most probably. But just because extremely population dense Japan does it has no bearing on what the US can do.
So the fact that Japan has more people in its cities and in a smaller amount of space and manages to deliver cellular data efficiently… excuses AT&T from doing the same with less population density in the US?
Quote:
3. Population density. You're unbelievable. Size is "admittedly" a valid consideration? How do you survive being so clueless and wearing such awful blinders? Or is it just your usual act where you spread your awfulness across all Apple sites?
"Usual act"? Hey, you wouldn't happen to have four Twitter accounts, would you?
If you on IOS 5.01 or later, jailbreak, install MY3G or Facebreak from Cydia and facetime over 3G to your hearts content.... Also, Skype works over 3G without needing to JB.
The iPhone with unlimited data was something that put AT&T back on the map.
They didn't invest in jobs. They invested in a product that they made bank on.
They want to limit customers? Those customers will go elsewhere.
Bottom line.
AT&T is the same company that lies about 4G.
Mobile data consumption doesn't cost AT&T.
They roll out the hardware and maintain the servers.
Once you know how the system works, you realize what a scam and a racket mobile data is.
You pay ridiculous fees with data limits for convenience. It's no more difficult than any other data bandwidth provider.
Throttling is also an issue. One could see throttling if someone was using 100 gn a month on a phone. But 2-3? Get real.
AT&T is digging it's own grave here.
Their problem is vision. Even U-Verse was an afterthought to FiOS. And just now they think about LTE?
The best move they made was the superior gsm/edge.
But they spent so much time milking that that they forgot to think about the next gen. Now they cry about it, blame their customers??? Blame a dead CEO??? No class.
Basically this is AT&T admitting to the public that they don't know what theyre doing and don't know how to say "thank you" for something that worked so well for them for so long.
Instead, they are preparing customers for a big "screw you... Now pay me for it"...
Vz is also notorious for following a trend that works well for AT&T. I can see them pulling this too.
Sprint is only silent because it's new.
It m be time for a new player.
We aren't talking an entrenched system of telephone wires. We are talking the purchase/ lease of land to plant towers and an electric bill /all connected to a server farm/farms.
1.You're comparing different land masses and population densities in Europe with the US? Really? Have you ever taken a geography class? Are you an elementary student? Crack open a world atlas at some point in your life. Everything isn't perfect over there either, Britain has it's own share of problems (which wasn't given as an example but it still valid). Doesn't help that the iPhone 4 has also had(s) serious flaws in the design that highlighted weak spots in the networks worldwide and not just AT&T. How did you become a moderator with that level of ignorance?
2. Your point? 60 million people hammering a network at once is just no big deal right? I don't want to sound like I'm defending AT&T but your argument and most others are of whiny children that want their data yesterday. I know AT&T has done a shitty job, I hate them more than most probably. But just because extremely population dense Japan does it has no bearing on what the US can do.
3. Population density. You're unbelievable. Size is "admittedly" a valid consideration? How do you survive being so clueless and wearing such awful blinders? Or is it just your usual act where you spread your awfulness across all Apple sites?
Mr. Stephenson shouldn't be lamenting the past and in fact should be looking into the future. Blaming a device for a market shift is akin to throwing one's toys on the ground. Yes, Apple was the first to bring that market shift and it did so in rapid terms but shame on you Mr. Stephenson for not recognizing it and coming to grips with the future of a wireless carrier. Gather your toys, sit down with your CTO and understand what that future looks like and figure out what it will take to move towards that future business model. Don't be like your legacy parent and cling to the old business model because all you're doing is leaving the door open for another carrier who 'gets it' to come in and steal your customers.
Radio spectrum should be managed by a private non-profit association, as the FCC is doing a terrible job of it!
Where is radio spectrum in the Constitution, the Federal Government has no business in the RF regulation activities, nor the FTC! Show me the law, it does not exist. Most of the things the gov't does it is not authorized to do. It is not Constitutional.
As for the fuel example, they company would not do that because it would not be good for business -- the market signals would tell them this is not smart, and they would relent, or people would simply buy elsewhere.
Both of you fail to appreciate that in order for telecoms to exist, they have to make use of the public airwaves. That spectrum is allotted to them under certain specific conditions. So no they cannot do anything they want even if they are a private company. They are regulated by the FTC and FCC.
Well, the FTC is governed by the Sherman Act, the FTC Act, and the Clayton Act. The FCC is primarily governed by the Communications Act.
Imagine for a second that Apple, Nokia, and Google's various Android phones all enabled tethering from their side by default on the handsets. Do you really think the telecoms can ban all these handsets from their network? No they couldn't. All they could do is stipulate in the contract that you are not allowed to make use of those features. If the user violates that contract they might get into trouble with their telecom, but the telecom can't say squat to the handset makers themselves. Of course, the reason why the feature isn't built in to the handset is because if it was the telecoms know full well that they wouldn't have a chance of enforcing that clause of their contract in a court. So rather than have to deal with that mess, they negotiate with the handset makers to have them keep certain features out.
To use an example similar to what you were using to another poster. Imagine that Shell, a private company, decided it didn't want to sell its fuel to new Japanese cars, as of 2012. Do you think it could do so? Every time an American car rolls up, it says no problem! Anytime an older Japanese car or German car pulls up, no problem. It sells the fuel. But when the 2012 Toyotas show up, it says, sorry, we are a private company and we do not sell our fuel to that model of car. Not going to happen. Imagine if the fuel company said, "sorry we don't sell fuel to hybrid cars because it messes with our revenue stream". Do you think that would fly?
I had a Nextel i90c phone before iPhone, and the ONLY reason I went to AT&T was iPhone.
Problem is, iPhone STILL has not Walkie Talkie style Direct Connect feature, and that BLOWS! The feature is EXTREMELY useful, and Apple needs to add a button on the side of the phone for this half-duplex audio!
The problem I have isn't pricing per se.after all u could view the iPhone as a 700-800 purchase with much lower monthly AT&T payments. Apple (rightly) set up this scheme to attract the most purchases. The problem I do have is the carriers continually advertising their newest and greatest pipes (4g for example) without adjusting the cost continually downward per data unit ( and all potentially upward per user) to reflect those advances...
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB
Reported. Not the IQ required for evaluating reality.
Please clarify. I see nothing in the post you replied to that justifies that kind of an insult.
Also, calling (or implying) another poster dumb is often infraction worthy, and it is not an appropriate reply. I don't agree that Tallest's post is report worthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Except they can. Because they do. Because no one cares enough to stop them, and the people in charge of stopping them are being paid off by the people doing the un-stopping.
Pretty much, yes. At least "they" effectively stopped the AT&T/T-Mobile merger. There was pretty much no common sense argument for allowing that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie
Uh, yes.
De-regulation is the cause of most of this country's problems. We literally would not be in this mess were it not for de-regulation.
That is completely false, and the result wrongheaded thinking. In most cases, government intervention ("regulation") is the cause of problems. This is not to say that we should end all regulation, of course. But in so many cases, the government ends up stifling innovation. Ask many people why the economy nearly collapsed in 2008, and if you don't get "Bush" you'll get "deregulation." In fact, the oppose is true. The government started meddling in the markets with Community Reinvestment Act in 1970s, and expanded that meddling with it's re-authorization in the 1990s. Banks were forced to make questionable loans ('sub primes") by the government, which in turn was being shaken down by the likes of Jesse Jackson et al. The result? A subprime mortgage crisis that infected nearly the entire economy. I'm not trying to get political here, but in all seriousness..."deregulation" is not the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Please clarify. I see nothing in the post you replied to that justifies that kind of an insult.
Also, calling (or implying) another poster dumb is often infraction worthy, and it is not an appropriate reply. I don't agree that Tallest's post is report worthy.
Just a word of thanks for being an evenhanded mod, Jeff. I agree with you after having read both posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
We're Americans. We're incredible at this sort of thing. It's the last few decades that these idiots (not just the telecoms) have become complacent and lazy.
The last few decades - well that would account for quite a large part of your american history!
In the mobile broadband history the last few decades would be enough to say the entire history of mobile broadband.
I must say that you have some work to be done in this area but you are also a huge country to cover.
The comment about alternative texting services makes me the most mad. After shoving their malformed corporate member in their customer's metaphorical pooper for years, complaining about competition is like whining that they aren't allowed to splatter love chowder in our hair. AT&T, you are an abusive company undeserving of sympathy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria
Also, why the hell does this forum not support the Safari browser on iPhone???
It does, just not well.
Unlimited data at least cleared the way for new applications to take hold, like e-commerce (that is still struggling in this country). AT&T's CEO lack of vision is astounding - charge $0.25 for a text? Really?
This is the sort of boneheaded monopolistic thinking that has turned the US into a telecom third world country that lags in innovation. If the AT&T CEO has no vision his shareholders should get rid of him, he can be replaced by a $30 adding machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
"Every additional megabyte you use in this network, I have to invest capital."
Q: So, Randall, why is investing in your network a bad thing?
A: Because the cell carriers are an oligopoly. They only need to be barely good enough to keep customers from quitting en masse.
And they all know that.
The problem is that demand has grown faster than anyone could ever foresee and keep up with.
No one ever thought we'd use our devices to watch Netflix, Hulu, HBO, or use it as a wifi hotspot.
You can't compare Japan and the US without taking land mass and population into consideration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
The problem is that demand has grown faster than anyone could ever… …keep up with.
The Japanese, South Koreans, and Scandinavians are doing all right.
Quote:
No one ever thought we'd use our devices to watch Netflix, Hulu, HBO, or use it as a wifi hotspot.
The people who came up with the ideas for them did. The only problem lies in the fact that these people didn't work for the telecoms at the time.
Quote:
You can't compare Japan and the US without taking land mass and population into consideration.
I don't much see what population has to do with it, but size is, admittedly, a valid consideration.
Except when you take into account that we've blanketed the country three times over with more towers than we actually need since the companies can't agree on a format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
1.The difference is that Apple is making products that people are free to choose and willing to pay a premium for while cellular carriers are providing a service that people are forced to pay for in order to use those devices and those service providers believe that if they are not making a similar premium then they are losing money.
2.Imagine buying a premium automobile and paying extra because you want the additional features/reliability/ease of use/etc only to discover that when you go to the gas station you get charged more per gallon than the economy car next to you - or the toll road owners complaining that they are unable to charge you more each time you use the toll road just because you use it more often than some other car. Or the toll road offering an unlimited pass and then complaining that usage of the roadway has increased to a point where they need to repair the roadway more often.
3.Or perhaps this is in part a problem of consumers' perception - since I am choosing to buy a premium product (the iPhone) I accept having to pay a premium - but since I don't consider the cellular service a premium service (esp when there was no option) then I don;t think I should have to pay a premium for that service.
1. You are free to use the iPod Touch. You are free to use a service provider that doesn't "screw" you like you don't want to be. You are pissing uphill, if you don't like it then don't use it. No one it forcing you to buy anything and if you want to pout, go pout to Apple. They are selling their wares to the "evil" corporation that you're "forced" to use. Aren't they a little responsible for the outcome?
2. You and every other person paints this horrible picture, but it doesn't exist (first sentence). Toll road owners complain all the time about not being able to raise charges! When they can't raise fast passes they raise individual gate fees. Do you own a car? Are you even an adult? The fact that you act like this doesn't happen means you must not own a car. Piss and moan all you want about having a "premium device" and all the "horrible" things that the carriers do to you. If you don't like it, don't buy it. How hard is that to understand?
3. Then quit whining about it and don't buy the service!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
1.The Japanese, South Koreans, and Scandinavians are doing all right.
2.The people who came up with the ideas for them did. The only problem lies in the fact that these people didn't work for the telecoms at the time.
3.I don't much see what population has to do with it, but size is, admittedly, a valid consideration.
Except when you take into account that we've blanketed the country three times over with more towers than we actually need since the companies can't agree on a format.
1.You're comparing different land masses and population densities in Europe with the US? Really? Have you ever taken a geography class? Are you an elementary student? Crack open a world atlas at some point in your life. Everything isn't perfect over there either, Britain has it's own share of problems (which wasn't given as an example but it still valid). Doesn't help that the iPhone 4 has also had(s) serious flaws in the design that highlighted weak spots in the networks worldwide and not just AT&T. How did you become a moderator with that level of ignorance?
2. Your point? 60 million people hammering a network at once is just no big deal right? I don't want to sound like I'm defending AT&T but your argument and most others are of whiny children that want their data yesterday. I know AT&T has done a shitty job, I hate them more than most probably. But just because extremely population dense Japan does it has no bearing on what the US can do.
3. Population density. You're unbelievable. Size is "admittedly" a valid consideration? How do you survive being so clueless and wearing such awful blinders? Or is it just your usual act where you spread your awfulness across all Apple sites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKZ
1.You're comparing different land masses and population densities in Europe with the US. Everything isn't perfect over there either, Britain has it's own share of problems (which wasn't given as an example but it still valid).
So explain why, when this country is already covered with cell towers of different protocols and frequencies, we still have this problem.
Quote:
Doesn't help that the iPhone 4 has also had(s) serious flaws in the design that highlighted weak spots in the networks worldwide and not just AT&T. How did you become a moderator with that level of ignorance?
Tim_Cook_beating_a_dead_horse_with_an_iPhone_4_for_a_head.png
Quote:
2. Your point? 60 million people hammering a network at once is just no big deal right? I don't want to sound like I'm defending AT&T but your argument and most others are of whiny children that want their data yesterday. I know AT&T has done a shitty job, I hate them more than most probably. But just because extremely population dense Japan does it has no bearing on what the US can do.
So the fact that Japan has more people in its cities and in a smaller amount of space and manages to deliver cellular data efficiently… excuses AT&T from doing the same with less population density in the US?
Quote:
3. Population density. You're unbelievable. Size is "admittedly" a valid consideration? How do you survive being so clueless and wearing such awful blinders? Or is it just your usual act where you spread your awfulness across all Apple sites?
"Usual act"? Hey, you wouldn't happen to have four Twitter accounts, would you?
The iPhone with unlimited data was something that put AT&T back on the map.
They didn't invest in jobs. They invested in a product that they made bank on.
They want to limit customers? Those customers will go elsewhere.
Bottom line.
AT&T is the same company that lies about 4G.
Mobile data consumption doesn't cost AT&T.
They roll out the hardware and maintain the servers.
Once you know how the system works, you realize what a scam and a racket mobile data is.
You pay ridiculous fees with data limits for convenience. It's no more difficult than any other data bandwidth provider.
Throttling is also an issue. One could see throttling if someone was using 100 gn a month on a phone. But 2-3? Get real.
AT&T is digging it's own grave here.
Their problem is vision. Even U-Verse was an afterthought to FiOS. And just now they think about LTE?
The best move they made was the superior gsm/edge.
But they spent so much time milking that that they forgot to think about the next gen. Now they cry about it, blame their customers??? Blame a dead CEO??? No class.
Basically this is AT&T admitting to the public that they don't know what theyre doing and don't know how to say "thank you" for something that worked so well for them for so long.
Instead, they are preparing customers for a big "screw you... Now pay me for it"...
Vz is also notorious for following a trend that works well for AT&T. I can see them pulling this too.
Sprint is only silent because it's new.
It m be time for a new player.
We aren't talking an entrenched system of telephone wires. We are talking the purchase/ lease of land to plant towers and an electric bill /all connected to a server farm/farms.
It's time for some new blood in the industry.
Ooop.
Someone's in a tizzy.
Don't like having AT&T stupidity exposed...
Wear a blue badge do you?
Check this out, finally some relief in basic notification before huge overages -- what took them so long:
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/bill-shock-wireless-usage-alerts-consumers
Where is radio spectrum in the Constitution, the Federal Government has no business in the RF regulation activities, nor the FTC! Show me the law, it does not exist. Most of the things the gov't does it is not authorized to do. It is not Constitutional.
As for the fuel example, they company would not do that because it would not be good for business -- the market signals would tell them this is not smart, and they would relent, or people would simply buy elsewhere.
Problem is, iPhone STILL has not Walkie Talkie style Direct Connect feature, and that BLOWS! The feature is EXTREMELY useful, and Apple needs to add a button on the side of the phone for this half-duplex audio!