Apple's reputation intact after negative tax avoidance press

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  • Reply 21 of 45
    normmnormm Posts: 653member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


     


    I love the US, but I don't love wasteful government. The problem is, everyone thinks that THEIR pet project or government funded kickback isn't wasteful. This is why I'd support no income tax, no minimum wage, no price controls and no bailouts or support for the oil industry, car companies, banking, housing, farms, etc. Level the playing field, get the nitpickers out of our way and let competition rebuild America.



     


    I would agree that the tax code is a mess, but do you really understand what it would mean to have no government?  The US is a complex organism, and if you remove all regulation and control you don't get some ideal free market, what you get is a twitching mass of uncontrolled cancerous cell growth.  There's an old saying that the fire code is written in blood -- every regulation is there because of some terrible disaster that happened.  Similarly with many other safety laws.  The financial regulations adopted after the great depression avoided another one until they were dismantled.  The truth is that markets aren't very good at regulating themselves.  In a truly free market, companies would literally kill each other.  Polluters would save a few cents by killing the fish that others depend on, and by dramatically raising their neighbors' medical costs and shortening their lives.  We have no choice.  We can't get rid of government.  We have to make it work.

  • Reply 22 of 45
    mercury99mercury99 Posts: 251member


    And most of Apple 100 billion dollar cash is in Asian banks. America will probably never see that money. 

  • Reply 23 of 45
    libertyforalllibertyforall Posts: 1,418member


    Yes, corporate income tax -- it's part of the same, he covers these issues.  VAT is not in the US.  


     


    Wow, so you attack the messenger who discovered information that exposes the scam, and all you do is attack.  I can tell you are a true intellectual.  


     


    Next thing you will tell us is that the government never railroads anyone, and that the messenger, Schiff, is not a political prisoner -- which is what he is in essence.  If all you do is stay this superficial, all you will give is responses like that below.  


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post


     


    Your links are all about income tax. What does it have to do with this story (VAT/corporate tax)?


     


    image


     


    Now read the truth...


     


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff


     


    "Irwin A. Schiff (born in February 24, 1928) is a prominent figure in the United States tax protestermovement. Schiff is known for writing and promoting literature that claims the United States income tax is applied incorrectly. He has lost several civil cases against the federal government and has a record of multiple convictions for various federal tax crimes. Schiff is serving a 13-plus year sentence for tax crimes (with his location listed as the Terre Haute Federal Correctional Institution). His projected release date is October 7, 2016.[1]"


  • Reply 24 of 45
    libertyforalllibertyforall Posts: 1,418member


    You mean the United States of the World?  After all, is that not what the globalists like Obama and Bush and many others have been pushing us towards.  Destroying the sovereignty and Constitution, and propping up the the communist-founded United Nations.  After all, who funds the UN most, the US does -- we need to get out of the UN!  


     


    The globalist goals are to lower the standard of living of the US and raise the rest of the world, and destroy nations and bring a one world government.  This is the road to the destruction of our freedoms.  


     


    The UN wants a global income tax -- are you ready for even MORE insanity?  I am not.  Enough is enough.  


     


    Campaign for Liberty, for those who are awake:


    http://www.campaignforliberty.org


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


    And most of Apple 100 billion dollar cash is in Asian banks. America will probably never see that money. 


  • Reply 25 of 45
    Fully agree. Apple's following our current tax laws, [B]legally[/B]. All companies do the same, some use [I]even more[/I] allowed loopholes.

    If anything, we need to TELL our legislatures to SIMPLIFY THE FEDERAL TAX CODE. As a byproduct, many/all of the expensive loopholes will be gone. This is the real problem -- congressional politicians (especially the career politicians) are giving away or bankrupting our nation.
  • Reply 26 of 45
    waybacmacwaybacmac Posts: 309member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    A report calls Apple's reputation "Teflon," referring to recent revelations of the company's tax practices and finds that public opinion went mostly unchanged when the story broke a week ago.


     


    A revelation? What revelation? Is it a revelation that normal Americans are no longer shocked by stories of wealthy companies taking advantage of tax laws to pay less taxes? Just like we're not shocked any more by reports of Congressmen passing pork-barrel legislation wasting millions on pet projects or accepting millions from lobbyists. Move along...nothing to see here.

  • Reply 27 of 45
    viktorcodeviktorcode Posts: 33member


    I suggest to read Forbes’ opinion on the NYT report, before starting “tax avoidance” discussions: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/04/30/apples-9-8-tax-rate-new-york-times-ignorance-again/


     


    As it was said before NYT piece has nothing to do with the reality, but everything with fabricated scoop. For the sake of humanity I hope that Apple’s ‘teflon’ reputation is the result of people still having critical opinion on media reports, as opposed to blind Apple fanaticism.

  • Reply 28 of 45
    nairbnairb Posts: 253member


    Apple is a publicly listed company. As a shareholder I would be pissed off if they did not take all legal means to reduce their tax burden. In fact, they may be negligent in regards to their stockholder obligation if they did not do this.


     


    This whole tax haven thing is only news in so far as various national governments are able to alter their tax laws in the future to clamp down on these currently legal tax avoidance measures. It will cut into profits for big companies like Apple and Google.

  • Reply 29 of 45
    mdcraggmdcragg Posts: 73member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chabig View Post


    The NYT article was purely a hit piece. Why they did it, I have no idea. I'm just glad it didn't work.



    The reason why they did it is simple.  The NYT is a bunch of liberals and Apple is a successful corporation and liberals hate corporations.

  • Reply 30 of 45
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,883member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


     


    Although it is true that the Constitution allows Congress many enumerated powers, "authority over financial and budgetary matters, through the enumerated power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States"*, there is also a valid argument by "Eric Patashnik, (who) suggests that much of Congress's power to manage the budget has been lost when the entitlement state expanded since 'entitlements were institutionally detached from Congress's ordinary legislative routine and rhythm.'" ...



     


    The income tax is explicitly authorized by the Constitution in the 16th Amendment:


     




    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.




     


    The 16th Amendment, along with every other Amendment, is just as much a part of the constitution as the original Articles (or, even more so, in cases where they override or modify clauses in the original Articles). This is why the argument against the income tax is a fool's argument.

  • Reply 31 of 45
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post


    You mean the United States of the World?  After all, is that not what the globalists like Obama and Bush and many others have been pushing us towards.  Destroying the sovereignty and Constitution, and propping up the the communist-founded United Nations.  After all, who funds the UN most, the US does -- we need to get out of the UN!



     


    How do you figure it was communist founded?  The League of Nations (forerunner to the UN) was started by Woodrow Wilson.  The initial member states of the UN were the Security Council (France, the Republic of China, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom and the United States) and _46_ other nations.  How exactly is this communist founded?  Yes, there were communist countries involved, but it wasn't just them and this was post-WW2 and both sides were trying to keep things from going toward war again.  You have to have both sides working together to keep peace.


     


    This simple bit of information can be found from 5 seconds of Googling.   

  • Reply 32 of 45
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poke View Post


    I wonder if the larger public has now learned to ignore anything negative the media says about Apple since there have been so many manufactured controversies? It must be strange for all those millions of people who own Apple products to be constantly fed stories about how they don't work as advertised, explode, etc, when their own products work just fine. Or to be told they're a security nightmare when they've never encountered a virus or malware. Add in the recent revelations about Mike Daisey and at this point the public probably thinks anyone saying anything negative about Apple is either a rabid anti-fan or has an agenda.



    Well, I personally have issues with my WiFi (iMac, MacBook Air), an issue that "doesn't exist". I've had the iPhone connection issues(but Apple solved that with a free case, so that's fine by me). I have a serious gripe with Lion which I hate, but I'll admit it's a bit of a personal thing more than a "issue" per se. I have a serious gripe, also, with Apple's cables (they suck hard, they cost 26 to 75 euros and they spoil in a year or so). Most people I know also have issues with their cables (USB iPhone, Macbook Air charger...), where the plastic yellows out and dies very fast. I want something stronger, and since my 10 years old black thinkpad cable is just as good as brand new, I know Apple can do it. 


     


     


    Point: Apple products are far from issue-less. Obviously though, my iPhone did not explode, start spewing liters of acid or any other bizarre stuff :p

  • Reply 33 of 45
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


     


    How do you figure it was communist founded?  The League of Nations (forerunner to the UN) was started by Woodrow Wilson.  The initial member states of the UN were the Security Council (France, the Republic of China, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom and the United States) and _46_ other nations.  How exactly is this communist founded?  Yes, there were communist countries involved, but this was post-WW2 and both sides were trying to keep things from going toward war again. 



    Also, many communist countries argue the UN is USA-led due to funding from the US being huge.


     


    I guess everyone sees what they fear most...

  • Reply 34 of 45
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    mdcragg wrote: »
    The reason why they did it is simple.  The NYT is a bunch of liberals and Apple is a successful corporation and liberals hate corporations.
    But they don't normally hate liberal corporations. Which is what Apple is.
  • Reply 35 of 45
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    anonymouse wrote: »
    The income tax is explicitly authorized by the Constitution in the 16th Amendment:


    The 16th Amendment, along with every other Amendment, is just as much a part of the constitution as the original Articles (or, even more so, in cases where they override or modify clauses in the original Articles). This is why the argument against the income tax is a fool's argument.

    Beyond that, the U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed that the income tax is perfectly legal - and has totally squashed all the related arguments (such as the claim that salary is not an income or that business profits are not income).

    The anti-income tax people are free to stop paying U.S. income taxes any time they want. Emigrate. That way, you won't be using any of the services that you object to paying for, either.
  • Reply 36 of 45
    mdcraggmdcragg Posts: 73member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    But they don't normally hate liberal corporations. Which is what Apple is.


     


    Steve Jobs, an ultra capitalist, managed to position Apple as a "cool" and "alternative" company.  They were the underdog up against the Microsoft corporate machine.  With Apple becoming larger and more mainstream corporate and with Jobs dying this is probably changing.  Apple is now the biggest corporate target of all except for the oil companies.  Plus the writers at NYT want to advance their careers.  It's hard to do that talking about how "cool" Apple is.  It's easy to advance your career in the liberal media though if you jump on the anti-corporate lynch mob and go after the biggest "star".

  • Reply 37 of 45
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


    Well, I personally have issues with my WiFi (iMac, MacBook Air), an issue that "doesn't exist". I've had the iPhone connection issues(but Apple solved that with a free case, so that's fine by me). I have a serious gripe with Lion which I hate, but I'll admit it's a bit of a personal thing more than a "issue" per se. I have a serious gripe, also, with Apple's cables (they suck hard, they cost 26 to 75 euros and they spoil in a year or so). Most people I know also have issues with their cables (USB iPhone, Macbook Air charger...), where the plastic yellows out and dies very fast. I want something stronger, and since my 10 years old black thinkpad cable is just as good as brand new, I know Apple can do it. 


     


     


    Point: Apple products are far from issue-less. Obviously though, my iPhone did not explode, start spewing liters of acid or any other bizarre stuff :p



     


    I have had issues with Wi-Fi myself but the issue has vanished since OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion.  Completely, absolutely vanished.  In fact, I would dare say that most of the issues were removed in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion.


     


    I haven't had significant connection issues that weren't the likely result of poor signal strength.


     


    I don't understand your complaints about Mac OS X Lion but then you didn't state them either.  Mac OS X Lion may be the most secure, released operating system available.


     


    The original iPhone cables were pretty horrible but the latest cables seem to have improved.  Apple MagSafe has definitely improved as well.


     


     


    In all fairness to the poster to whom you replied, he/she is likely referring to Antennagate, which you mentioned, where Apple reported that 0.55% of iPhone purchasers were plagued sufficiently to inform AppleCare.  Antennagate was a legitimate complaint by many users but the rhetoric from competitors and media outlets vastly over-reported the issue.  Similarly, Batterygate was a significant issue to many iPhone users which was significantly overblown.  Likewise, Heatgate for the new iPad 3rd generation) was vastly overestimated as an issue.


     


    In contrast, Google Android receives a pass on virtually every issue.  Android forums are lit up like a Christmas tree quite often with significant issues, proponents simply refuse to acknowledge the issues:


     


    Battery Life (excellent battery life is the exception rather than the rule)


    Fragmentation


    Google Play (formerly Android Market) (missing many basic features that iTunes has had for years)


    Horrible Product Integration 


    Lack of Standards (credit to Microsoft who implements strict standards for using their OS)


    Malware


    Memory Management (ala "Mutli-tasking")


    Poor Enterprise Management tools


    Software Updates


    User Experience (Inconsistent UI, Poor UI responsiveness, Inconsistent Feature Implementation)


    Wi-Fi Connectivity

  • Reply 38 of 45
    cjcampbellcjcampbell Posts: 115member


    I see no reason why any company should pay more taxes than it absolutely has to. Businesses are run for the benefit of their owners, not the benefit of government tax collectors. I would consider a company that did not minimize taxes to be incompetently managed. I would be willing to bet that Apple and GE's critics take every deduction they can get, too.

  • Reply 39 of 45
    cjcampbellcjcampbell Posts: 115member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Beyond that, the U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed that the income tax is perfectly legal - and has totally squashed all the related arguments (such as the claim that salary is not an income or that business profits are not income).

    The anti-income tax people are free to stop paying U.S. income taxes any time they want. Emigrate. That way, you won't be using any of the services that you object to paying for, either.


     


    The Supreme Court has also affirmed that no one is obligated to arrange their financial affairs to pay more taxes than they have to. This is one of the first cases you study in income tax law. Even IRS agents know it. The fact is, corporate taxes are double or triple taxation on the same income. The corporation pays taxes. Then the shareholders have to pay taxes on any money they take out of the corporation. They also pay taxes when they sell the shares at a profit. The United States has one of the highest real corporate tax rates in the world. Just like any other entity, the US government competes with other nations for government services. Apple did, in fact, emigrate. They pay taxes in the countries where they do  business. The United States has no moral reason to expect to collect taxes on money made in other countries.

  • Reply 40 of 45

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MDCragg View Post



    The reason why they did it is simple.  The NYT is a bunch of liberals and Apple is a successful corporation and liberals hate corporations.


    But they don't normally hate liberal corporations. Which is what Apple is.


     


     


    What is a "liberal corporation"?  Is Exxon a liberal corporation?  Monsanto?

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