Why do you think the Dart is a feature phone? What specific aspects make it not a smart phone? I think it's better to just do away with the class than to try to arrive at a more contrived definition.
The hardware makes many apps incompatible for the Dart. If this was a 2008 phone, like the iPhone 3G, it would be understandable that this phone isn't able to compete with other smartphones, but it simply can't and to market any phone that has Android OS as a smartphone is disingenuous and will lead to even more issues than Android has now as more and more people move into what are being claimed as smartphones and expect to run apps that others can easily run. This cheap, low-performance Android phones are the new feature phones and this market will continue to grow, especially in emerging markets.
The hardware makes many apps incompatible for the Dart. If this was a 2008 phone, like the iPhone 3G, it would be understandable that this phone isn't able to compete with other smartphones, but it simply can't and to market any phone that has Android OS as a smartphone is disingenuous and will lead to even more issues than Android has now as more and more people move into what are being claimed as smartphones and expect to run apps that others can easily run. This cheap, low-performance Android phones are the new feature phones and this market will continue to grow, especially in emerging markets.
Hasn't that always happened with computers? A budget computers can't do what the high end computers could do, but they were still considered computers.
Hasn't that always happened with computers? A budget computers can't do what the high end computers could do, but they were still considered computers.
They are still cell/mobile phones just as PCs are still PCs. I didn't create the distinction between the various cell/mobile phone types, but I am adhering to them. If we are still going to categorize one type as smartphones then I see no reason to alter that. We do have a subcategory of notebooks called netbooks which do allude to their inferior HW features and performance.
David Pogue classified the iPhone and it's followers as "app phones." I think this sums it up nicely, but if your brand new phone that has an OS that is also on "app phones" can't run any of the Google Play apps because the vendor has chosen to use inexpensive and well out of date HW and has altered the Android OS UI to work for a very small display with a number pad and perhaps with only a rudimentary touch screen is that really something that should be called a smart phone simply because it runs an OS that other smartphones technically run? That's like saying that Android OS has a Linux kernel so every phone with a Linux kernel should be classified the same.
"Once the iPhone is on more than just AT&T it is the beginning of the end for Android." (Everyone - Circa 2009/2010)
I remember hearing many people say that the iPhone will be destroyed by Android. After a quick look at the United States... it's 50% vs 30% and they are both doing incredibly well and are very well received.
I don't think anyone thinks either of those platform will cease to exist anytime soon...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz
Moving goalposts much?
Movable goalposts? Sure.
Finish line? Absolutely not.
The truth is... Apple will be making smartphones for the rest of our lives... and so will Android OEMs.
Of course if you took a snapshot of the US smartphone market right now... Android is winning. But because there is no end to this game... there will never be a winner.
Just be glad that BOTH platforms exist... and will exist for quite some time... and people can be happy with whichever one they prefer.
If the telecoms force me to have a data plan to use it, it's a smartphone. Otherwise it's a regular phone.
But the definition should concern the hardware, not what carriers in one particular market may or may not do.
Your definition isn't very universal. In the UK, you won't be forced to have a data plan to operate any phone. Doesn't mean we don't have any smartphones!
ATT sold 4.3 million iPhones this quarter, 75% of smartphones sold were iPhone, and 78% of phones sold were smart phones making iPhone 60% of all ATT phone sales.
Verizon sold 3.2 million iPhones this quarter, out of a total of 6.2 million smartphones sold, smart phones are 47% of Verizon sales.
Third place Sprint did not release iPhone numbers, they have committed to buying 15 Billion in iPhones, last quarter Sprint activated 1.8 million iPhones. (About half of smart phone sales, compared to Verizon.)
The top three cell phone companies have 75% of the US cell phone market.
Fouth place T-Mobile does not have iPhone yet, building it's 4G network to accept iPhone5.
A bunch of regional phone companies now have iPhone. (nTelos, Alaska Com, Appalachian, GCI, Cellcom, Matanuska)
Doing the math iPhone has ~49% of new smartphone sales in the US, quite a difference from this "user survey".
Hey guys, long time reader first time poster. I bought my first iPhone last week, off contract as I still have about 8 months left on my current. I lost my Galaxy S2 at a park so I needed a replacement. I have been a long time Apple user, Macbooks and iMac mostly but this is my first iPhone. Not liking it to much I have to say. It's very attractive don't get me wrong, but I'm not a big fan of iOS so far. I'm kind of wondering how you guys get over the limitations of the OS. For one, the lack of a file-manager is starting to drive me a little batty. I don't like that each program has it's own way of storing it's data. Why do I have to use iTunes to create directories or move files. What's with the lack of codecs, MP4 is okay but I have a huge collection of DIVX movies. I've seen apps that can play them so if anyone can tell me which one is the best that would be most appreciated. Why can't I change the default browser, that's kind of a Microsoft way of thinking isn't it. Also the multitasking is really funking, does it pause the app in the background, I think it is, that's not really what multitasking is. Also I thought I wouldn't miss it but I really want a MiniSD card or SD card. I bought the photo kit, that's pretty much useless as I cant use it with any program that I want to use it for. The prices for apps in the store are little more then what they are in the Android store, I guess that's not such a big deal but without a file manager these apps seem to be more limited then what I was able to do on Android.
I don't know, maybe because it's new, I'll need some time to adjust. However I think I'll end up getting rid of it though and buying a HTC One X or a replace my missing beloved SG2 with the SG3.
I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a a**hole, I'm sure there are lots of you who love your iPhone but I'm really wondering how some of you get around all these restrictions. I swear a day after owning it that 1984 commercial for Apples new Macintosh kept repeating in my head, it seems like Apple is becoming that what they were fighting against in the 80's.
As long as their Macbook Pro's and iMac's stay the way they are, I absolutely love my 13", could use more battery life but with OSX I can live with it. iOS though, is a little to Evil Empire, we have ultimate control for my taste.
Kind of a downer for my first post, I'll stick with just visiting the OSX side of things for now on
What's with the lack of codecs, MP4 is okay but I have a huge collection of DIVX movies.
Yeah, pirated movies. MP4 is a modern format. AVI, WMV, DIVX, MKV… not. Use HandBrake to convert these files.
Quote:
Also the multitasking is really funking, does it pause the app in the background, I think it is, that's not really what multitasking is.
So you want your games running (crashing, losing) and movies playing (heard, unseen) in the background? I fail to see how that makes any sense. Do Android phones let you do that? How is THAT multitasking?
Quote:
I don't know, maybe because it's new, I'll need some time to adjust.
I think that's probably a lot of it.
Quote:
…could use more battery life but with OSX…
Have you properly conditioned your battery? I don't know of a Windows laptop that gets better battery life than the MacBook family.
I think you were being condescending, right, so I'll just say yes absolutely, Android is much more like a normal OS then iOS is. Is that a good thing, I think it is but I'm more of a power user. After Owning an iPhone for only 6 days now I would have to say the platform is more for those who don't want to mess about with their phones, don't want to customize it and are happy to have Apple have complete control over how they can use their phones. It's like a summer rental, you can use it, live in it but you can't change it. If you don't like the drapes tough kittens that's the way it is but check out that view from the back patio. I guess there is nothing wrong with that as many people just want their tech to work.
As a lover of tech though and as someone who is interested in how things work and learns by doing, the iPhone is kind of a boring platform. As a child I taught myself basic because I wanted to learn more how a computer works and to customize my experience. iOS doesn't have that frontier attitude about it, everything is already done for you, the Apple way, the only way. Again I'm sure this isn't a bad thing as Apple has been selling tons of these things.
I guess I'm afraid mostly for our children who grow up these devices. They're so locked and predefined it takes away the interest to hack them to pieces. Sure they might have interest in writing an app or two with cookie cutter IDE's but what about the real important stuff like kernel, driver development, assembly, ect.
I really don't want to sound like a slime ball who has just come to crap in your Cheerios bowl. I know a lot of you love the platform and I respect that. I to wanted nothing more then to love it. Who know's maybe after I figure out how to Jail Break it things will change. I just got done reading the other thread about Apple filtering out the word Jail Break, to funny. How does one Jail Break there new iPhone. Google away.................................
Yeah, pirated movies. MP4 is a modern format. AVI, WMV, DIVX, MKV… not. Use HandBrake to convert these files.
No, no all from my DVD collection which is now over 1500 titles. I don't pirate, I'm a Christian who doesn't steal sir. I still prefer Divx, I get better quality and compression, MKV and AVI are not a codec, there media containers which by the way could also contain a MP4 .
So you want your games running (crashing, losing) and movies playing (heard, unseen) in the background? I fail to see how that makes any sense. Do Android phones let you do that? How is THAT multitasking?
I'll take all of above, I like it when things continue to run in the background. I'm a big believer in state. Yes, most Android programs unless told not to can run in the background. Meegos and WebOS are much better at it though and are considered true multitasking mobile OS's
I think that's probably a lot of it.
Yea, probably but so far I'm not to impressed with it. The platform is to closed for my liking. That's okay though, not everyone needs to be a iPhone user, that is what's so great about choice.
Have you properly conditioned your battery? I don't know of a Windows laptop that gets better battery life than the MacBook family.
I wouldn't know I haven't owned a Windows laptop in the last 15 years. I get about 4 hours with my 2 month old Macbook Pro, I would like to see that number go up to at least 10. I know it's just a fantasy but I would gladly pay for it.
Comments
The hardware makes many apps incompatible for the Dart. If this was a 2008 phone, like the iPhone 3G, it would be understandable that this phone isn't able to compete with other smartphones, but it simply can't and to market any phone that has Android OS as a smartphone is disingenuous and will lead to even more issues than Android has now as more and more people move into what are being claimed as smartphones and expect to run apps that others can easily run. This cheap, low-performance Android phones are the new feature phones and this market will continue to grow, especially in emerging markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
The hardware makes many apps incompatible for the Dart. If this was a 2008 phone, like the iPhone 3G, it would be understandable that this phone isn't able to compete with other smartphones, but it simply can't and to market any phone that has Android OS as a smartphone is disingenuous and will lead to even more issues than Android has now as more and more people move into what are being claimed as smartphones and expect to run apps that others can easily run. This cheap, low-performance Android phones are the new feature phones and this market will continue to grow, especially in emerging markets.
Hasn't that always happened with computers? A budget computers can't do what the high end computers could do, but they were still considered computers.
They are still cell/mobile phones just as PCs are still PCs. I didn't create the distinction between the various cell/mobile phone types, but I am adhering to them. If we are still going to categorize one type as smartphones then I see no reason to alter that. We do have a subcategory of notebooks called netbooks which do allude to their inferior HW features and performance.
David Pogue classified the iPhone and it's followers as "app phones." I think this sums it up nicely, but if your brand new phone that has an OS that is also on "app phones" can't run any of the Google Play apps because the vendor has chosen to use inexpensive and well out of date HW and has altered the Android OS UI to work for a very small display with a number pad and perhaps with only a rudimentary touch screen is that really something that should be called a smart phone simply because it runs an OS that other smartphones technically run? That's like saying that Android OS has a Linux kernel so every phone with a Linux kernel should be classified the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Didn't Nokia use Symbian on dumb phones, feature phones and smartphones? How were those models differentiated?
No they didn't. Their smartphones used Symbian, the feature phones used S40 and S30
Speaking of Symbian, here's a phone that I would gladly trade my current smart phone for:
http://europe.nokia.com/pureview
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz
"Once the iPhone is on more than just AT&T it is the beginning of the end for Android." (Everyone - Circa 2009/2010)
I remember hearing many people say that the iPhone will be destroyed by Android. After a quick look at the United States... it's 50% vs 30% and they are both doing incredibly well and are very well received.
I don't think anyone thinks either of those platform will cease to exist anytime soon...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz
Moving goalposts much?
Movable goalposts? Sure.
Finish line? Absolutely not.
The truth is... Apple will be making smartphones for the rest of our lives... and so will Android OEMs.
Of course if you took a snapshot of the US smartphone market right now... Android is winning. But because there is no end to this game... there will never be a winner.
Just be glad that BOTH platforms exist... and will exist for quite some time... and people can be happy with whichever one they prefer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
If the telecoms force me to have a data plan to use it, it's a smartphone. Otherwise it's a regular phone.
But the definition should concern the hardware, not what carriers in one particular market may or may not do.
Your definition isn't very universal. In the UK, you won't be forced to have a data plan to operate any phone. Doesn't mean we don't have any smartphones!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious
But the definition should concern the hardware, not what carriers in one particular market may or may not do.
All right, then.
Regular phone: telecom software, calling, texting, camera, video.
Feature phone: telecom software, calling, texting, camera, video, qwerty keyboard.
Smartphone: proprietary software, calling, texting, camera, video, keyboard or touchscreen.
I found that ComScore also does real market shares, not just "user surveys":
http://blog.comscore.com/2011/01/verizon_iphone_mobile_market.html
In the US:
ATT sold 4.3 million iPhones this quarter, 75% of smartphones sold were iPhone, and 78% of phones sold were smart phones making iPhone 60% of all ATT phone sales.
Verizon sold 3.2 million iPhones this quarter, out of a total of 6.2 million smartphones sold, smart phones are 47% of Verizon sales.
Third place Sprint did not release iPhone numbers, they have committed to buying 15 Billion in iPhones, last quarter Sprint activated 1.8 million iPhones. (About half of smart phone sales, compared to Verizon.)
The top three cell phone companies have 75% of the US cell phone market.
Fouth place T-Mobile does not have iPhone yet, building it's 4G network to accept iPhone5.
A bunch of regional phone companies now have iPhone. (nTelos, Alaska Com, Appalachian, GCI, Cellcom, Matanuska)
Doing the math iPhone has ~49% of new smartphone sales in the US, quite a difference from this "user survey".
you'll propably find some interesiting stuff considering Apple and Iphone sales here...turned out to be a good source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I imagine that anything running Android on a phone is considered a smartphone at this point, but I don't think it should.
I imagine that anything running android on a phone is considered a DUMBphone at this point...
I fixed that for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicFingers
I imagine that anything running android on a phone is considered a DUMBphone at this point...
Except that any high-end Android phone is much more computer-like, and offers more possibilities than the iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Except that any high-end Android phone is much more computer-like, and offers more possibilities than the iPhone.
Of course it is. Of course it does.
I don't know, maybe because it's new, I'll need some time to adjust. However I think I'll end up getting rid of it though and buying a HTC One X or a replace my missing beloved SG2 with the SG3.
I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a a**hole, I'm sure there are lots of you who love your iPhone but I'm really wondering how some of you get around all these restrictions. I swear a day after owning it that 1984 commercial for Apples new Macintosh kept repeating in my head, it seems like Apple is becoming that what they were fighting against in the 80's.
As long as their Macbook Pro's and iMac's stay the way they are, I absolutely love my 13", could use more battery life but with OSX I can live with it. iOS though, is a little to Evil Empire, we have ultimate control for my taste.
Kind of a downer for my first post, I'll stick with just visiting the OSX side of things for now on
Quote:
Originally Posted by calden
Hey guys, long time reader first time poster.
Welcome!
Quote:
What's with the lack of codecs, MP4 is okay but I have a huge collection of DIVX movies.
Yeah, pirated movies. MP4 is a modern format. AVI, WMV, DIVX, MKV… not. Use HandBrake to convert these files.
Quote:
Also the multitasking is really funking, does it pause the app in the background, I think it is, that's not really what multitasking is.
So you want your games running (crashing, losing) and movies playing (heard, unseen) in the background? I fail to see how that makes any sense. Do Android phones let you do that? How is THAT multitasking?
Quote:
I don't know, maybe because it's new, I'll need some time to adjust.
I think that's probably a lot of it.
Quote:
…could use more battery life but with OSX…
Have you properly conditioned your battery? I don't know of a Windows laptop that gets better battery life than the MacBook family.
I think you were being condescending, right, so I'll just say yes absolutely, Android is much more like a normal OS then iOS is. Is that a good thing, I think it is but I'm more of a power user. After Owning an iPhone for only 6 days now I would have to say the platform is more for those who don't want to mess about with their phones, don't want to customize it and are happy to have Apple have complete control over how they can use their phones. It's like a summer rental, you can use it, live in it but you can't change it. If you don't like the drapes tough kittens that's the way it is but check out that view from the back patio. I guess there is nothing wrong with that as many people just want their tech to work.
As a lover of tech though and as someone who is interested in how things work and learns by doing, the iPhone is kind of a boring platform. As a child I taught myself basic because I wanted to learn more how a computer works and to customize my experience. iOS doesn't have that frontier attitude about it, everything is already done for you, the Apple way, the only way. Again I'm sure this isn't a bad thing as Apple has been selling tons of these things.
I guess I'm afraid mostly for our children who grow up these devices. They're so locked and predefined it takes away the interest to hack them to pieces. Sure they might have interest in writing an app or two with cookie cutter IDE's but what about the real important stuff like kernel, driver development, assembly, ect.
I really don't want to sound like a slime ball who has just come to crap in your Cheerios bowl. I know a lot of you love the platform and I respect that. I to wanted nothing more then to love it. Who know's maybe after I figure out how to Jail Break it things will change. I just got done reading the other thread about Apple filtering out the word Jail Break, to funny. How does one Jail Break there new iPhone. Google away.................................
Hey thanks!
No, no all from my DVD collection which is now over 1500 titles. I don't pirate, I'm a Christian who doesn't steal sir. I still prefer Divx, I get better quality and compression, MKV and AVI are not a codec, there media containers which by the way could also contain a MP4 .
I'll take all of above, I like it when things continue to run in the background. I'm a big believer in state. Yes, most Android programs unless told not to can run in the background. Meegos and WebOS are much better at it though and are considered true multitasking mobile OS's
Yea, probably but so far I'm not to impressed with it. The platform is to closed for my liking. That's okay though, not everyone needs to be a iPhone user, that is what's so great about choice.
I wouldn't know I haven't owned a Windows laptop in the last 15 years. I get about 4 hours with my 2 month old Macbook Pro, I would like to see that number go up to at least 10. I know it's just a fantasy but I would gladly pay for it.