2012 iPhone to feature larger-display design that Steve Jobs worked on

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 93
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    1) Not if they reduce the thickness of the device and the thickness of the bezel of the sides of the display.

    2) Not if they retain the same PPI and just elongate the height thereby alteringthe aspect ratio. Whilst alien at first since the UI scrolls up and down in most apps and non-comforming apps could just be centered in the display until adjusted it wouldn't negatively impact the user experience.


     


    Reducing the bezel structurally weakens the phone. They'll widen it.

  • Reply 22 of 93
    sol77sol77 Posts: 203member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Or maybe we'll stick to our convictions because we're not mindless Jobs-sheep.



     


    I'm not extremely tech savvy, but it's always interesting reading tech blogs/websites - an outsider couldn't be faulted much for thinking that techies think each other are either always wrong or always right, always completely original, or always sheep. Look on the bright side, if Apple doesn't make a new phone, they'll call you a sheep.  If Apple does make a phone with a new size, you'll be called an idiot.  That's what you get for having an opinion, and one that happens to coincide with a high profile figure. 


     


    I personally think raw efficiency is inversely proportional to screen size once you reach approximately where Apple has its phone, now.  (I wouldn't know, but aren't there a few phones about that size with full touch screens?)  Perhaps someone with a lot of spare time could perform some objective tests at some point...speed of answering phone calls, answering emails, opening emails and responding, etc.  Maybe the truth is completely different.  I certainly FEEL more efficient with a smaller phone.  I use an iPhone4, but took advantage of ATT's buyer's remorse period by purchasing (renting) the Samsung Galaxy Note for a week and a half.  I absolutely loved it, but the glaring problem is size...and not just in the obvious ways.  I had absolutely no idea how much it would throw me off to have to do everything two handed, nor did I realize how much this would affect me.  Sure, in the greater scheme of things it's not a big deal, but in terms of raw efficiency there is no comparison.  If I was in Grand Central, I had to hold the freaking thing with two hands even if I wasn't doing much on it because I couldn't grip it as securely...and I didn't want to get bumped by the crowd.  Same thing in a subway listening to music, changing songs, looking at email...walking up and down stairs while checking email (don't hate me, we all do it).  Eventually I moved all my icons to the bottom right corner so my thumb could reach them.  Four icons per page, all at the lower right.  But I still had to hold it with two hands to secure it.  But God I LOVED that phone.  It was a great writers companion.  It's size simply never stopped shouting at me, though.  I'm an avid book reader, and it is almost exactly the same size as a paperback...loved that.


     


    Frankly, I wouldn't have this problem (probably) with a 4.3" phone...but maybe I would.  For me, however, the only point in having a "larger" screen was for smoother web browsing...for a "tablet feel," and for the writing/illustrating.  I loved it on the Note.  And I loved the much hated stylus because I write and illustrate and the writing software/hardware was fantastic for jotting quick notes and illustrations/diagrams.  I simply can't do this well on a 4.3" screen.  So I look at the "mid range" sizes and shrug.  I guess it's a preference thing, but I still feel there would be a slight efficiency advantage with a smaller phone (not necessarily smaller screen).  I suppose, however, if my emphasis was less on speed and simplicity of accomplishing tasks, a larger screen is more efficient in terms of an immersing experience. 


     


    The other thing I love about the iPhone (and incidentally my old blackberry curve), is how I can forget about it when it's in my pocket.  Putting a 4.3" phone or bigger in my pocket makes me feel like I'm toting  a device (err...because I am), but the iPhone is invisible (without a case...I don't use a case because I'm not one to drop things).  It's tiny.  I forget about it in the exact same way I forget about my wallet in my back pocket. 


     


    I'm all for a bigger screen...if they don't have to make the phone much bigger.  But I largely agree with you.  Given there aren't that many "perfect" sizes possible in the phone world, I'm sure there's at least a twenty percent chance of being called an i-Fanboy, and a hundred percent chance of being called a sheep of whatever mobile phone maker makes the size you like.  But I'd be willing to bet a (very small) sum of cash that a screen size under 4" is the most efficient.

  • Reply 23 of 93
    ifij775ifij775 Posts: 470member
    Bigger screen, 4G LTE, and expanded SIRI; this phone will leave Android/windows/BB in the dust.
  • Reply 24 of 93
    sol77sol77 Posts: 203member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post





    It will be the opposite. As soon as Apple announces a 4" screen, that will be the perfect size. Until the moment before, 3.5 will be the perfect size.




    In all honesty, have you really met people who think that way?  The majority of consumers I've met (folk who don't spend any time reading blogs or tech websites) know nothing of this "size perfection" idea.  Including the iPhone owners.  I don't think Apple even markets it that way (do they?  I haven't seen that they do, but maybe...?).  Most of the crap I hear about Apple fanaticism is from people who hate Apple.  I interact closely with two people who work in tech and they constantly joke about Apple sheep...yet I have yet to meet an iPhone owner who uses any of Jobs's party lines.  It'd be silly...it'd be like going through the drive through at Burger King and then screaming to everyone about how great it is that you can "have it your way" there.  Even if I met five people who claim it is the perfect size, they're still in the extreme minority...


     


    Second, how many arguably perfect sizes are there?  Most would say smaller than 3.5 is not a contender.  Most would say larger than 4.5 is not a contender.  If a half inch is required for a psychological difference, we're dealing here with three potential "ideal sizes."  Statistically speaking, 33% will agree with Jobs, all things being equal.  I realize all things are not equal, but I simply don't see 3.5 being perfect being that contentious an idea.  And like I said earlier, even if 33% would think this, I still have yet to meet someone who brainlessly walks around saying it.  I do, however, know two Apple haters who brainlessly quote, ad nauseum, every cliche anti apple phrase they hear, and not a day goes by without the chanting mockery of "iThis and iThat."  I personally have no investment either way.  I happen to prefer the iPhone, but I don't really care if it is the best or not...it FEELS the best for me. 


     


    If your comment is making fun of Apple for their advertising ways...well, every company does that.  To say it is "common" is like telling someone gas stations are common. 

  • Reply 25 of 93
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Reducing the bezel structurally weakens the phone. They'll widen it.

    That can't be determined unless you are implying that material is being removed but no additional support is being added. That's like saying that a thinner anything is weaker because it's not as thick.
  • Reply 26 of 93

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

    Have you ever tried to use one of those larger Samsung phones? Not only are they impossible to fit into your pocket, but they are completely unwieldy to use because you have to constantly be using two hands to do everything. No one-handed anything.


    Do you mind if I ask you how tall you are? What type of jeans do you wear. I am 2 meters or six feet tall. I occaisionaly wear skinny jeans to work. I have no problem fitting my galaxy nexus in my pockets when I where my skinny jeans. I have a friend who is 5 foot even. I had her try my phone in her pocket no problems with it in her front pocket. Besides most people who can't fit a large phone in their pocket because their pants are too tight generally can place their phone in their purse, at that size they are not putting a grown up wallet in there. 


     


    http://www.phonearena.com/news/4-inches-to-4.5-inches-is-the-sweet-spot-for-smartphone-screen-size-says-survey_id28080

  • Reply 27 of 93
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    sol77 wrote: »
    I'm not extremely tech savvy, but it's always interesting reading tech blogs/websites - an outsider couldn't be faulted much for thinking that techies think each other are either always wrong or always right, always completely original, or always sheep. Look on the bright side, if Apple doesn't make a new phone, they'll call you a sheep.  If Apple does make a phone with a new size, you'll be called an idiot.  That's what you get for having an opinion, and one that happens to coincide with a high profile figure. 

    I personally think raw efficiency is inversely proportional to screen size once you reach approximately where Apple has its phone, now.  (I wouldn't know, but aren't there a few phones about that size with full touch screens?)  Perhaps someone with a lot of spare time could perform some objective tests at some point...speed of answering phone calls, answering emails, opening emails and responding, etc.  Maybe the truth is completely different.  I certainly FEEL more efficient with a smaller phone.  I use an iPhone4, but took advantage of ATT's buyer's remorse period by purchasing (renting) the Samsung Galaxy Note for a week and a half.  I absolutely loved it, but the glaring problem is size...and not just in the obvious ways.  I had absolutely no idea how much it would throw me off to have to do everything two handed, nor did I realize how much this would affect me.  Sure, in the greater scheme of things it's not a big deal, but in terms of raw efficiency there is no comparison.  If I was in Grand Central, I had to hold the freaking thing with two hands even if I wasn't doing much on it because I couldn't grip it as securely...and I didn't want to get bumped by the crowd.  Same thing in a subway listening to music, changing songs, looking at email...walking up and down stairs while checking email (don't hate me, we all do it).  Eventually I moved all my icons to the bottom right corner so my thumb could reach them.  Four icons per page, all at the lower right.  But I still had to hold it with two hands to secure it.  But God I LOVED that phone.  It was a great writers companion.  It's size simply never stopped shouting at me, though.  I'm an avid book reader, and it is almost exactly the same size as a paperback...loved that.

    Frankly, I wouldn't have this problem (probably) with a 4.3" phone...but maybe I would.  For me, however, the only point in having a "larger" screen was for smoother web browsing...for a "tablet feel," and for the writing/illustrating.  I loved it on the Note.  And I loved the much hated stylus because I write and illustrate and the writing software/hardware was fantastic for jotting quick notes and illustrations/diagrams.  I simply can't do this well on a 4.3" screen.  So I look at the "mid range" sizes and shrug.  I guess it's a preference thing, but I still feel there would be a slight efficiency advantage with a smaller phone (not necessarily smaller screen).  I suppose, however, if my emphasis was less on speed and simplicity of accomplishing tasks, a larger screen is more efficient in terms of an immersing experience. 

    The other thing I love about the iPhone (and incidentally my old blackberry curve), is how I can forget about it when it's in my pocket.  Putting a 4.3" phone or bigger in my pocket makes me feel like I'm toting  a device (err...because I am), but the iPhone is invisible (without a case...I don't use a case because I'm not one to drop things).  It's tiny.  I forget about it in the exact same way I forget about my wallet in my back pocket. 

    I'm all for a bigger screen...if they don't have to make the phone much bigger.  But I largely agree with you.  Given there aren't that many "perfect" sizes possible in the phone world, I'm sure there's at least a twenty percent chance of being called an i-Fanboy, and a hundred percent chance of being called a sheep of whatever mobile phone maker makes the size you like.  But I'd be willing to bet a (very small) sum of cash that a screen size under 4" is the most efficient.


    Have seen the FlyGrip. It's a silly gadget thats actually quite usefull.

    430
  • Reply 28 of 93
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    sol77 wrote: »

    In all honesty, have you really met people who think that way?  The majority of consumers I've met (folk who don't spend any time reading blogs or tech websites) know nothing of this "size perfection" idea.  Including the iPhone owners.  I don't think Apple even markets it that way (do they?  I haven't seen that they do, but maybe...?).  Most of the crap I hear about Apple fanaticism is from people who hate Apple.  I interact closely with two people who work in tech and they constantly joke about Apple sheep...yet I have yet to meet an iPhone owner who uses any of Jobs's party lines.  It'd be silly...it'd be like going through the drive through at Burger King and then screaming to everyone about how great it is that you can "have it your way" there.  Even if I met five people who claim it is the perfect size, they're still in the extreme minority...

    Second, how many arguably perfect sizes are there?  Most would say smaller than 3.5 is not a contender.  Most would say larger than 4.5 is not a contender.  If a half inch is required for a psychological difference, we're dealing here with three potential "ideal sizes."  Statistically speaking, 33% will agree with Jobs, all things being equal.  I realize all things are not equal, but I simply don't see 3.5 being perfect being that contentious an idea.  And like I said earlier, even if 33% would think this, I still have yet to meet someone who brainlessly walks around saying it.  I do, however, know two Apple haters who brainlessly quote, ad nauseum, every cliche anti apple phrase they hear, and not a day goes by without the chanting mockery of "iThis and iThat."  I personally have no investment either way.  I happen to prefer the iPhone, but I don't really care if it is the best or not...it FEELS the best for me. 

    If your comment is making fun of Apple for their advertising ways...well, every company does that.  To say it is "common" is like telling someone gas stations are common. 


    I think his comment was geared towards the people who are militant in saying 3.5" is the only size that could possibly be useful. Anything larger then that is silly because people can't fit them into their jeans or something like that. Once Apple actually has a 4" iPhone on the market all will be forgiven and those same people will wonder why Apple didn't make a 4"in the first place.
  • Reply 29 of 93
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,397member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    1) Not if they reduce the thickness of the device and the thickness of the bezel of the sides of the display.

    2) Not if they retain the same PPI and just elongate the height thereby alteringthe aspect ratio. Whilst alien at first since the UI scrolls up and down in most apps and non-comforming apps could just be centered in the display until adjusted it wouldn't negatively impact the user experience.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


     


    Both sizes work. Is there room for improvement? Of course. Nothing is perfect because people have wildly differing psychological and physical metrics. A Smart car is perfect for a 4 ft. tall woman, but not so for a 7 ft. tall man.



     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    I really hope they don't increase the size of the iPhone. The 3.5" iPhone is the PERFECT SIZE to hold in one hand, and still have your thumb touch all the corners of the screen. 


     


    Have you ever tried to use one of those larger Samsung phones? Not only are they impossible to fit into your pocket, but they are completely unwieldy to use because you have to constantly be using two hands to do everything. No one-handed anything.



     


     


    I've read some stuff on how changing the aspect ratio slightly wouldn't be a total hurdle for most developers - would provide new real estate for iOS 6 - and wouldn't widen the phone much if at all - AND - so the thumb would have about the same L-R sweep, if not vertical. (Also as noted people have more than one size of hand - a fairly wide range in fact.)


     


    And iPhone and iPad apps are already differentiated, so no impact there.  


     


    Further, a wider aspect ratio might help revive/refresh (the way long in the tooth) iPod Touch - as better for gaming and media consumption. (You notice how no one almost even talks about the iPT anymore here?  No rumors even.)


     


    Another thing no one ever mentions is that at some point Apple might actually (gasp) have a line of two current phones (and keep the last two around as they have been at tongue-whetting prices to get share and ecosystem lock-in).  So why not a  3.5 AND a 4.0-4.2 (taller and if wider, barely)?  But what am I thinking?  What company makes more than one phone model?  


     


    NTM Apple still makes FIVE lines of computers (Mini, MBA, MB Pro, iMac and Pro - and all the ones with screens come in multiple screen sizes - 11.6 to 27" with good offerings across the range.)....  ...And Macs account for what, now 14% of Apple's revenue?  So multiple models of their top-selling products certainly comes up in planning meetings......  ...and I remain convinced Apple is not  going to cede the entire screen size range between 3.5 and 9.7" to other companies in the long run.  There's just too many things devices of other sizes might be optimized for....  ...the mobile/cloud age is in its infancy, after all.

  • Reply 30 of 93
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,786moderator
    The Galaxy S has a 4" screen, here's it next to the iPhone 4:



    It has a slightly different aspect ratio but it gives an idea about the relative size. The iPhone's edge would be a lot thinner than the Galaxy S so not much more bulky.

    I think a 4" screen would make the text much more legible. You can see at 0:27 in the video above that the Galaxy S text is clear but the iPhone 4 text is blurred. The font choice will play a part but the scale helps a lot.

    They might have to sharpen the corner curvature to manage 4" or aim for somewhere between 3.5" and 4".
  • Reply 31 of 93
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    bigpics wrote: »
    NTM Apple still makes FIVE lines of computers (Mini, MBA, MB Pro, iMac and Pro - and all the ones with screens come in multiple screen sizes - 11.6 to 27" with good offerings across the range.)....  ...And Macs account for what, now 14% of Apple's revenue?  So multiple models of their top-selling products certainly comes up in planning meetings......  ...and I remain convinced Apple is not  going to cede the entire screen size range between 3.5 and 9.7" to other companies in the long run.  There's just too many things devices of other sizes might be optimized for....  ...the mobile/cloud age is in its infancy, after all.

    You can't compare Macs to iOS-based iDevices because the logistics are completely different. You can hook any size monitor up to a Mac. Apple starts at 11" and while that gets quite small and many pro apps simply aren't designed with that mine for general use it works out and there are certainly advantages for the small size device. Or you can go to 100" HD projector if you wish, not using an Apple display at all. You can use any aspect ratio that suits your needs.

    You simply don't have all those options with a non-windowed OS without a direct and severe hit to the user experience. For those reasons I think the most likely avenue for Apple to increase the display size to keep the PPI the same and increase the resolution on one or more axis. This allows for any current iPhone content to be displayed on a larger iPhone exactly, pixel-for-pixel, the same size today as it will tomorrow. Devs will still get a new SDK and updated apps will be the better for it, just like with the iPhone 3GS to iPhone 4 transition.
  • Reply 32 of 93
    majjomajjo Posts: 574member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    Have you ever tried to use one of those larger Samsung phones? Not only are they impossible to fit into your pocket, but they are completely unwieldy to use because you have to constantly be using two hands to do everything. No one-handed anything.



    I don't know what kind of pants you wear, but I have no issues fitting the galaxy nexus into my pockets, and I wear pretty normal guy jeans. Heck, from the looks of it, even the huge galaxy note has no issues fitting into the types of pants I wear.


     


    On one handed operation, I'm able to operate the galaxy nexus pretty easily with one hand. The only issue I had was reaching the very top left corner of the screen, and I don't see myself needed to do that much, if at all, for normal operation of the phone. I had no issues operating the keyboard, the onscreen buttons, or pulling down the notification shade.

  • Reply 33 of 93
    really a bomb, is this the next iPhone 5?can't wait for its debut !
  • Reply 34 of 93
    technarchytechnarchy Posts: 296member


    It's not about the size of the screen, it's about the user experience and how "seamless" the device is to use.


     


    I trust Apple on this matter. They have a long history of putting experience first, and I see no reason why they would change that under Tim Cook.


     


    If anything. Apple has a huge advantage over android because big android phones are ho-hum affairs and bordering on ridiculous with the Galaxy Note. A 4" iPhone on the other hand will be the 2nd coming due to Apple's timing of the release.

  • Reply 35 of 93
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member


    Steve worked on it! Apple's last innovative product?

  • Reply 36 of 93
    bugsnwbugsnw Posts: 717member


    I wouldn't be surprised if Gil Amelio came back to claim he worked on it...

  • Reply 37 of 93

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    I really hope they don't increase the size of the iPhone. The 3.5" iPhone is the PERFECT SIZE to hold in one hand, and still have your thumb touch all the corners of the screen. 


     


    Have you ever tried to use one of those larger Samsung phones? Not only are they impossible to fit into your pocket, but they are completely unwieldy to use because you have to constantly be using two hands to do everything. No one-handed anything.



    I've spent the past three weeks in Korea and China and over 70% of the smartphones I see have 4"-and-up screens - especially in Seoul where Samsung dominates with the Galaxy, Nexus, and Note. Looking at all the people using their smartphones in crowded subway trains, they don't seem bothered at all holding or using the big screen phones. They (including women with small hands) seem to get around fine using them with just one hand. How often is it that you have to have the thumb reach each corner of the screen? In those cases one just needs to use the other hand.


     


    The benefits of the larger screen seems to outweigh the need to cover it with the reach of a thumb - especially for people who use it for several hours per day to browse websites, read books and magazines, watch videos, and write emails or messages that are longer than a few sentences, etc. I'm happy with the 3.5" screen as I live in LA and use it primarily as a communications device. But if I lived in Seoul (which I could easily do and may consider doing for a new job opportunity) and had to commute by subway and walk around for as much as 3~4 hours per day, I'd definitely want a screen in the 4.5" range and perhaps an 8" tablet as well.


     


    The great majority of the people in this world do not drive their own cars to commute. And these are the people that Apple is trying to reach to continue growth in emerging markets. A lot of these people don't even have PCs although they'd use them at work. The smartphone and perhaps the tablet may be the only device(s) they'll use to access the Internet for their own personal use outside of the office. Even if they have a PC at home, they'd rather use these mobile devices for all of their communications and information retrieval purposes.


     


    The mobility factor in cities like Seoul, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, etc. is way greater than virtually anywhere in America. The population density of Seoul is 8 times that of New York. The people here are constantly on the move on foot and in public transport. It's as though a lot of the people here only go home to sleep. You rarely even see laptop computers anywhere anymore. Everyone is glued to the phone or an occasional tablet and, over here, you see a lot more 7~8" tablets than you'd see in the US. Apple has to pay attention to the form factors that suit people in different environments. It won't be long before 80% of Apple's revenue and profits come from outside of the US.

  • Reply 38 of 93
    jonshfjonshf Posts: 90member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


     


    Both sizes work. Is there room for improvement? Of course. Nothing is perfect because people have wildly differing psychological and physical metrics. A Smart car is perfect for a 4 ft. tall woman, but not so for a 7 ft. tall man.



    Actually a Smart car works well for tall people. I can't say specifically for a 7 footer but I know someone who is 6'3" who drives one and loves it. The driver seat is just pushed back far enough.


     


    I think the same applies to a 4" iphone. If done right it could fit everyone's needs well enough.

  • Reply 39 of 93
    chabigchabig Posts: 640member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LizSandford View Post



    Jobs said a smaller iPad wouldn't work because people's fingers aren't that small.

    Why, then, is the even smaller display on the iPhone considered adequate?


    Jobs was saying the iPad UI doesn't work on a smaller device. The iPhone, although smaller, has a different UI designed for smaller devices.

  • Reply 40 of 93
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    jonshf wrote: »
    Actually a Smart car works well for tall people. I can't say specifically for a 7 footer but I know someone who is 6'3" who drives one and loves it. The driver seat is just pushed back far enough.

    I think the same applies to a 4" iphone. If done right it could fit everyone's needs well enough.

    Oh I hated my Smart, granted it's been over 12 years since I drove one but what I remember they were terifying little cars to drive on the highway and the drive is very rough. One of the worst things to come out of my country.
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