Tim Cook: Apple will show off 'cool ideas' for Siri in coming months

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    ascii wrote: »
    And yet you can say "Play something by The Beatles," and it works.

    It's seems like the system is just a collection of special cases, with no general understanding. That is one reason it has to be server-side, there have to be people in the loop to help it understand new things. If Tim intends to expand the domains it operates over (which it what it sounds like) it will be interesting to see how many domains it can do before it collapses under the weight of complexity.

    The initial command is "play" which automatically makes it an iPod command. The difference is that you can't choose to play a particular song by any artist at this point (unless they've updated it). That is a more complex command. You either play an artist which is indicated by the "by" signifier after "play", you play an album or you play a playlist.

    The only subjects it's looking for are the artist or album, yet with a calendar entry you are asking it to do something considerably more complex. From your PoV as a human the phrasing is related but it's not a human. It will always be inferior to the way we use language.

    What happens when you ask Siri, "Play some album by The Beatles." Does it then ask you which album you wish to play, does it say it can't find "some", or does it choose the closest thing to the "some" waveform?
  • Reply 22 of 37
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,350member


    I'm tempted to say that Siri is in fact not based on AI at all, but on a huge library of manually submitted inqueries and actions.


    I get the feeling Apple is getting this huge, HUGE list of inqueries that Siri can't, or isn't allowed to process yet, that they save in a database. Until the inqueries are manually solved with proper instructions and dialogue by Apple employees, Siri won't do anything. What's so AI about that? I hope they improve on all this.

  • Reply 23 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    palegolas wrote: »
    I'm tempted to say that Siri is in fact not based on AI at all, but on a huge library of manually submitted inqueries and actions.
    I get the feeling Apple is getting this huge, HUGE list of inqueries that Siri can't, or isn't allowed to process yet, that they save in a database. Until the inqueries are manually solved with proper instructions and dialogue by Apple employees, Siri won't do anything. What's so AI about that? I hope they improve on all this.

    It's absolutely based on AI. There are clearly many algorithms in place that aren't simply reading a database of text strings and then spitting out a static reply. There are also canned responses for certain, common inquires that help give Siri it's personality but that doesn't mean it's not based on AI. Even the Kinect is based on AI.

    443
  • Reply 24 of 37
    overlordoverlord Posts: 59member
    "Siri, turn on my Wifi!"
    "Siri, turn on my 3G!"
    "Siri, send SMS/EMAIL to people X when I arrive at the local Y"
    "Siri, send SMS/EMAIL to people X at time HH:MM"
    "Siri, connect to WiFi called My_Wifi_Acess_Point!"
    "Siri, unlock my iPhone/iPad!" (voice recognition?)
    "Siri, lock my iPhone/iPad!"
    and so on...
  • Reply 25 of 37
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,398member


    I wonder if they'll add the idea I emailed him quite a while back. Integrate Shazam with Siri so you just have to ask "who is this", "what artist is this", "listen to this" etc.


    It'll tell you who and give you a link to buy it from iTunes increasing the sales opportunity.


     


    Overlord - "lock my iPhone/iPad" are you sure! That would require you to press and hold the home button and then asking Siri to lock your iOS device. The alternative is to just press the lock button, job done.

  • Reply 26 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    overlord wrote: »
    "Siri, turn on my Wifi!"
    "Siri, turn on my 3G!"
    "Siri, send SMS/EMAIL to people X when I arrive at the local Y"
    "Siri, send SMS/EMAIL to people X at time HH:MM"
    "Siri, connect to WiFi called My_Wifi_Acess_Point!"
    "Siri, unlock my iPhone/iPad!" (voice recognition?)
    "Siri, lock my iPhone/iPad!"
    and so on...

    There are a lot of settings that I wish Siri could access but I'd settle for display brightness for right now.
  • Reply 27 of 37
    xanthohappyxanthohappy Posts: 102member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    The initial command is "play" which automatically makes it an iPod command. The difference is that you can't choose to play a particular song by any artist at this point (unless they've updated it). That is a more complex command. You either play an artist which is indicated by the "by" signifier after "play", you play an album or you play a playlist.

    The only subjects it's looking for are the artist or album, yet with a calendar entry you are asking it to do something considerably more complex. From your PoV as a human the phrasing is related but it's not a human. It will always be inferior to the way we use language.

    What happens when you ask Siri, "Play some album by The Beatles." Does it then ask you which album you wish to play, does it say it can't find "some", or does it choose the closest thing to the "some" waveform?


     


    You absolutely can choose a particular song by any artist. I just did a few tests (including tests with songs that have the same name by different artists) and it worked perfectly every time.

  • Reply 28 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    You absolutely can choose a particular song by any artist. I just did a few tests (including tests with songs that have the same name by different artists) and it worked perfectly every time.

    Can you type out the query and result? The commands or Siri for a song I'm seeing in reviews are for a song name in the iPod DB without being able to first separate out by artist or album first. As I said, they could have added this as this is the benefit of server-side and proof of gradual updates, but people still shouldn't expect miracles as once you state a key term the method of contextual understanding will alter as we can see in the iPod and Calabder apps.
  • Reply 29 of 37
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member


    Just curious... why do people defend Siri by saying its in Beta.  Isn't the fact it's in Beta 8 months after its launch starting to be worrisome on its own?  This is technology- it wasn't developed 8 months ago, it was developed years ago- and has been in a public beta for 8 months (an eternity in technology), with every iPhone commercial, pimping its "ability".


     


    Please- save the "beta" talk... I see the enormous potential in Siri as most of you do, but Apple needs to get on their game about it or stop promoting it.  I feel it was released far too early, but their backs were against the wall to release a new iPhone and had to do something different to appease people.  The 4S by itself was enough and they should have waited.  Just my meager opinion.

  • Reply 30 of 37
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

    Just curious... why do people defend Siri by saying its in Beta.  Isn't the fact it's in Beta 8 months after its launch starting to be worrisome on its own? 


     


    Gmail was in beta for, what, four to six years. Think "worrisome" thoughts about everyone equally.


     


    Quote:


    Please- save the "beta" talk... I see the enormous potential in Siri as most of you do, but Apple needs to get on their game about it or stop promoting it.




     


    They're on their game. You act as though Siri is a failure.


     


    Quote:


    …had to do something different to appease people.





    Nope.

  • Reply 31 of 37
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    This is more aVoice command beef than Siri. I think it kind of sucks. At least the more basic commands.

    Just as a test I asked it 5 times in a row to "play Green Day" and 3/5 it played Beck, one time it played The Urge and the last time it told me, "no match found". Yesterday I asked it about 5 times to play Metalica in it went back to Beck. VComm loves Beck. Must be aphabetically the first artis in the list and plays as a default.

    Now, I just realized that "play artist" doesn't work well but if you tell it "play something by artist" or play X track on artist's album", it works like a charm. Also telling it to play specific tracks is useless, but asking it "play something else by artist" works great.

    So in sum, hate voice com. Could be because I'm using a 3GS to test it out but I'm just shocked that Jobs let this out the gate in the sad state its in. I don't suppose the iPhone 4 (non-S) would be any better. Must be the horrible mic.
  • Reply 32 of 37
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Gmail was in beta for, what, four to six years. Think "worrisome" thoughts about everyone equally.


     



     


    First off- it was a little over 2 years (Feb 07'-July 09').  But more importantly, didn't your mom teach you that because one company does something everyone doesn't have to?  Seriously- you're gonna compare Apple with Google as if they should do things the same?  This is Apple- I, for one, hold them to a higher standard than Google (as do the other stockholders it seems).


     


     




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    They're on their game. You act as though Siri is a failure.


     


     




     


    Can't really debate if its a success or a failure as that's relative.  But there is no question It could have been much better.  There are plenty of complaints about Siri- you follow this forum, you should know better than most.  And these are coming from Apple fans.




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post




    Nope.


     




     


    Yup.

  • Reply 33 of 37
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

    First off- it was a little over 2 years (Feb 07'-July 09').


     


    Gmail came out in 2004.


     


    Quote:


    But more importantly, didn't you mom teach you that because one company does something everyone doesn't have to?



     


    No, as she's not a businesswoman. She did, however, teach me to treat all others equally.


     


    Quote:


    (as do the other stockholders it seems)



     


    Who… are shorting the stock because of Siri? I don't understand the implication.


     


    Quote:


    But there is no question It could have been much better.  There are plenty of complaints about Siri- you follow this forum, you should know better than most.  And these are coming from Apple fans.



     


    Sure, some people are having problems. I understand that completely. Apparently this instantaneously means "Apple should give up" to you.


     


    Quote:


    Yup.



     


    Go ahead and try to imply that Siri was the only change in the iPhone 4S. Go ahead. image

  • Reply 34 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    andysol wrote: »
    Just curious... why do people defend Siri by saying its in Beta.  Isn't the fact it's in Beta 8 months after its launch starting to be worrisome on its own?  This is technology- it wasn't developed 8 months ago, it was developed years ago- and has been in a public beta for 8 months (an eternity in technology), with every iPhone commercial, pimping its "ability".

    Please- save the "beta" talk... I see the enormous potential in Siri as most of you do, but Apple needs to get on their game about it or stop promoting it.  I feel it was released far too early, but their backs were against the wall to release a new iPhone and had to do something different to appease people.  The 4S by itself was enough and they should have waited.  Just my meager opinion.

    Your primary point makes absolutely no sense. There is no possible way that a service that requires voice samples to understand languages, dialects, phonemes, pronunciations, other parts of language, various demographically based terminology and other cultural context (making this list very brief) can get this sort of understanding from being in a lab and coded by a team of engineers. I am absolutely astonished that anyone would actually think it can be done as easily as adjusting the color on an app icon.

    Furthermore, Google had their speech-recognition system in place for 3.5 years before shutting it down. It's believed, but not verified, that Google shut it down once they felt they had enough samples to use but that happened in 2010 and we still haven't seen any proof that is the case. Apple had their iWork.com beta running for 3.5 years, also, before shutting it down. That is even less complex than capturing voice samples for a very long period and could be coded in a back room but a small team yet shows that a beta for 8 months isn't unrealistic or a very long time in tech.

    Now I do agree that Apple's Siri ads aren't representative of the real world. I have no problem with them shortening sequences but i do expect that phrases stated by the actors are actually phrases that Siri picked up during the making of the ad. Of course, professional video isn't shot that way as a general rule but in this case I think it's important for Apple to only use clips that do represent successful Siri queries. I'd also like them not to use terms like 'gazpacho' when trying to show Siri off until its success rate across many accents et al. reaches a set point.

    I do think the John Malkovich ads are great because they use a single word that is easy for Siri to parse. Notice how humans typically need more words to parse context but computers are more likely get confused about the context. This, at least, should be a clue to people.


    PS: This site asks a simple question and gets back a fairly simple yet thorough answer from many users that should help you and others understand why it can't just be a simple hardcoding to a few keywords.
  • Reply 35 of 37
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Gmail came out in 2004.



     


    Public beta for gmail was 2007.  Public beta for Siri was when the iPhone 4S was released.  I try to compare apples to apples.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    No, as she's not a businesswoman. She did, however, teach me to treat all others equally.


     



     


    So you expect Samsung and Google to make as intelligent of decisions as Apple?  Naive... but ok.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Who… are shorting the stock because of Siri? I don't understand the implication.


     



     


    I was saying that both myself and stockholders value Apple as more valuable and worthy of investment than Google (which is factual- thats the implication).


     


     




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Sure, some people are having problems. I understand that completely. Apparently this instantaneously means "Apple should give up" to you.


     



     


    I said they should have postponed the release until is was more feature rich.  How you got "Apple should give up" is beyond me.



     


     




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Go ahead and try to imply that Siri was the only change in the iPhone 4S. Go ahead. image



     


    For a guy who breaks down every post sentence by sentence (although exclude sentences you can't try to disprove), you sure do miss a lot....


     


     



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


    The 4S by itself was enough and they should have waited.



     


     

  • Reply 36 of 37
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

    So you expect Samsung and Google to make as intelligent of decisions as Apple?  Naive... but ok.


     


    Yeah, they certainly shouldn't be held to as high a standard as Apple has set… :this_is_where_the_confused_gif_would_go_if_we_had_a_working_one.gif:


     


    Quote:

    For a guy who breaks down every post sentence by sentence (although exclude sentences you can't try to disprove), you sure do miss a lot....


     


    Good. Thanks for clarifying your meaning on that. No problem, then.

  • Reply 37 of 37
    xanthohappyxanthohappy Posts: 102member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Can you type out the query and result? The commands or Siri for a song I'm seeing in reviews are for a song name in the iPod DB without being able to first separate out by artist or album first. As I said, they could have added this as this is the benefit of server-side and proof of gradual updates, but people still shouldn't expect miracles as once you state a key term the method of contextual understanding will alter as we can see in the iPod and Calabder apps.


     


    I started by asking the example I think someone listed. "Play Let It Be by The Beatles" and she understood that. Then I thought I'd try with a song that has the same name by different artists. I know I have a few different songs called "Beautiful" in my library, so I tried just asking "Play Beautiful" to see what would happen; Siri responded by playing an album I have that's named Beautiful. I then tried "Play Beautiful by Jonah 33" and she played just that song. Knew exactly what I was talking about.

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