If the "new Macbooks" can use either SSD or HDD, this would mean it is not using the Macbook Air's SSD, but the normal 2.5" form factor. This doesn't gel with the simplification strategy.
I think they are just keeping the PRO for those who still need a Optical drive. They can't switch completely away from that yet. They won't expect to sell many of the PRO models but they are beefing them up to the same performance level for those that still need that Optical drive. This new model is the replacement for the PRO but they need to keep an Optical drive model around for a while.
This new model will be more powerful than the Airs so they won't combine those two models.
I think this is correct. It is the OMG the sky is falling people who would freak out even though they probably aren't even in the market for a new MBP.
Maybe they should keep the 17" as the only Pro model and "really" make it Pro with all the bells and whistles.
....
This won't work because only a small percentage of Pro users want the 17" laptops.
It makes more sense to do what they are actually doing here which is get rid of the part of the Pro line that doesn't sell as well, and focus on keeping around the 13" and 15" until such time as people are moving to the new line in larger numbers.
Maybe they should keep the 17" as the only Pro model and "really" make it Pro with all the bells and whistles.
I have the 15" MBP and I like having the optical drive, the ethernet plug, and the assorted I/O capabilities, but I rarely use them. I do however think a powerful CPU/GPU is important for graphics work when on the road. Ideally that sort of work is done on a desktop machine but occasionally I have to whip something together while on the road. Smoothly running Adobe CS is a must for me. Other than that, a notebook is a secondary device for me.
You know it's becoming much easier to do a lot of that kind of stuff on a laptop with enough ram. 16GB of ram or more makes an incredible difference, and some functions are gaining OpenCL acceleration which seems to perform quite well even on laptops Note this. It may not describe everything, but that would have been a heavy adjustment to incur such long times in cpu only mode. The issues are coming down to IO, display size/quality, and ergonomics. There are still many things in favor of a desktop, but sometimes it's possible to consolidate rather than continuing to update separate machines. Regarding IO capabilities, people are different. Some of them do use certain features but not others. Removing them just means those options and choices go away because they're not universal requirements. The idea that they should all be the same is more marketing than anything. It's cheaper for Apple. It sells more machines. You don't really gain much if anything in return. The guys who say they want a 15" Air may reconsider if it's lacking that featherweight quality yet still less capable.
It's possible that in the longer term, designs from Intel and possibly AMD+ NVidia may change in the mobile space. If the mainstream heads toward sub 10W designs rather than starting from higher power ones and reverse engineering toward lower power, we may see this. I'd still like to keep the ports though. With a little less tapering, you could have way more ports.
I think they are just keeping the PRO for those who still need a Optical drive.
Since the optical drive actually makes it less pro than one without it, it's implausible that there would be little other difference between such two models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn
They can't switch completely away from that yet. They won't expect to sell many of the PRO models but they are beefing them up to the same performance level for those that still need that Optical drive. This new model is the replacement for the PRO but they need to keep an Optical drive model around for a while.
This new model will be more powerful than the Airs so they won't combine those two models.
That doesn't make much sense. Not only CAN they switch away from it but Apple has a history of big moves instead of slow transitions when they look at the future and see, for example, that hardly anyone needs a built-in optical drive anymore in their laptop. Especially Apple users, given how Apple has stopped providing disc content for nearly all of their product.
Whether or not an optical drive appears anywhere I wouldn't chalk it up to Apple feeling they can't abandon those who'd like one.
Ok, so Apple is going to keep the MacBook Pro and rename the MacBook Air to just MacBook. Then next year they drop the Pro and just have one MacBook line. What's so hard to understand about that?
That seems backwards from a marketing standpoint to me. If you put your latest and greatest tech in the newer, thinner machines then those should be called Pros and the older, clunkier machines Should be depreciated to MacBook, unless you have a new suffix for the newer design.
If they replace the sexy black display bezel on the 15" with that horrible metal color, like the ones on the 11" and 13" Macbook Airs, I'm gonna vomit.
If they replace the sexy black display bezel on the 15" with that horrible metal color, like the ones on the 11" and 13" Macbook Airs, I'm gonna vomit.
Did you vomit for the six years the aluminum PowerBook design was used? How about the titanium PowerBook design? :wherefore_art_thou,_rolleyes_emoticon.gif:
If this is true, it is a muddled mess IMHO. Shades of the Performa days when Apple had a bunch of slightly different models. Hard to believe.
-kpluck
Yes, four choices is SO HARD to understand. All you anal-retentives out there need to calm down. There's nothing wrong with making different models for different types of users.
It's most certainly not shades of the Performa days. And even after Steve's return, it took a long time to drop to just a handful of products:
There are still many things in favor of a desktop, but sometimes it's possible to consolidate rather than continuing to update separate machines.
It is also an issue of ergonomics for me. Working on a notebook screen placed at the desk level is the wrong height and the wrong distance from the keyboard which is also uncomfortable for working extended hours. Just my opinion, but I am spoiled with my Mac Pro and 30" Cinema, high end ergonomic desk and chair. Working on my MBP is a total compromise for the sake of portability.
Yes, four choices is SO HARD to understand. All you anal-retentives out there need to calm down. There's nothing wrong with making different models for different types of users.
It's most certainly not shades of the Performa days. And even after Steve's return, it took a long time to drop to just a handful of products:
Yes, four choices is SO HARD to understand. All you anal-retentives out there need to calm down. There's nothing wrong with making different models for different types of users.
It's most certainly not shades of the Performa days. And even after Steve's return, it took a long time to drop to just a handful of products:
How are you counting the desktops? Right now, I see 3 minis, 4 iMacs and 4 Mac Pros, making it 11 Desktops/Towers. And that's excluding any BTO permutations.
<vc><strong>The rumored introduction of a "new MacBook" series alongside refreshed MacBook Pro and MacBook Air lineups next week presents some interesting possibilities for the future of the Mac. <em>AppleInsider</em> takes a closer look at where Apple could be headed next.</strong>
For months, Apple has been expected to introduce new, thinner MacBook Pros with high-resolution Retina displays. The notebooks are expected to take design cues from Apple's MacBook Air, but offer more power than the ultraportable notebook.
But on Friday, <em>AppleInsider</em> was first to report on a research note from analyst Ming-Chi Kuo with KGI, who indicated that the redesigned thinner notebook will instead be a <a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/08/apple_to_unveil_entirely_new_macbook_series_at_wwdc_insiders_say.html">new MacBook series</a>, rather than a MacBook Pro. Kuo said he expects Apple to update and continue to sell the MacBook Pro, complete with an optical disc drive, for the near future.
However, beyond that, Kuo said he believes Apple plans to discontinue the MacBook Pro lineup in 2013, if the "new MacBook" proves as successful as the company hopes.
Kuo expects the MacBook Pro branding to live on in the short-term with new 13- and 15-inch notebooks featuring the same design as the current Pro models. But the updated MacBook Pros and "new MacBooks" are expected to have essentially identical horsepower, raising some important questions: Why would Apple offer two products that are so similar? Further, if Apple does <a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/08/apple_still_expected_to_retire_17_inch_macbook_pro_in_2012.html">actually retire</a> the 17-inch MacBook Pro, why offer two competing notebooks in identical sizes of 13- and 15-inch screens?
<div align="center"><img src="http://photos.appleinsidercdn.com/breakdown-120608.jpg" border="0" width="763" height="263" alt="Breakdown" /></div>
Apple's rumored notebook shakeup, if true, could be the company's way of slowly renaming its lineup to simply "MacBook." Losing the "Pro" name by next year could be compared to how Apple ditched the generational numbering scheme with its new iPad. Some have also suggested Apple also intends to call its sixth-generation iPhone just the "new iPhone," continuing the same theme of simplified product names.
So what exactly would be the difference between the rumored "new MacBook" and the refreshed MacBook Pro products? Most notably, the legacy MacBook Pro would maintain the optical disc drive and thicker form factor currently found on the MacBook Pro lineup.
And while the updated MacBook Pros would look largely identical, the "new MacBook" is expected to offer a number of features not found in the MacBook Pro, allowing it to stand out from its counterpart beyond their identical performance capabilities. Namely, the "new MacBook" is rumored to exclusively feature:
<ul><li>A slimmer form factor of about 18mm for the 13-inch model and 19mm for the 15-inch
<li>No optical disc drive on any models
<li>Retina display resolutions of 2,560-by-1,600 for the 13-inch, and 2,880-by-1,800 for the 15-inch
<li>Edges outside the display 50 percent narrower than the MacBook Pro
<li>A larger battery capacity about 15 to 20 percent greater than the MacBook Pro</ul>
<div align="center"><img src="http://photos.appleinsidercdn.com/lineup-120608.png" border="0" width="540" height="126" alt="MacBook" /><br /><span class="minor2">Apple's future MacBook lineup is rumored to come in three sizes: 11, 13 and 15 inches.</span></div"
What this looks like to me is Apple is going to replace the MBP but will keep it available for some time - exactly as they did with the iPad and iPhone.
If the keep MBP around for a year, it will be hard to argue for keeping the ODD beyond that. The very small number of people who really need it can use an external.
I too agree the current MBP is an antiqued design, and will go away in time. If so, why compare the "new Macbooks" with something that's going away?
I feel the more interesting thinking, is, why should the "new Macbooks" be called "Macbook Air+". Like what others have suggested, it is essentially one line (MBA) with 3 sizes: 11", 13" & 15".
I just hope Apple (Tim) keeps in mind that the second coming of Steve was about new innovation and simplification of the product line. The last thing Apple should do is have too many products. IMHO they won't make that mistake.
LOL - who do you think taught Steve how to cut down supply chain fat and reduce inventory and waste? = Tim Cook.
All the "second coming of Steve" crap is a joke - do people really think all the great products and progress Apple made in the last 10 years was all done personally by Steve Jobs? Really? It takes thousands of Apple employees years to roll out these new products. One of the best thing Steve did when he returned was to hire smart people and let them do their job. Sure the press like to tell stories about Steve and quote "former Apple employees", but I have no doubt that Apple is in good hands and will continue to develop great products that customers love.
If anything, Tim Cook might be a little more flexible and willing to do things like release a thinner MacBook Pro line while still retaining a 15" model that has a built-in optical drive. Steve would have probably cancelled that all together and a bunch of people would have complained - and rightly so, because some professionals still have use for an optical drive.
Comments
If the "new Macbooks" can use either SSD or HDD, this would mean it is not using the Macbook Air's SSD, but the normal 2.5" form factor. This doesn't gel with the simplification strategy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn
I think they are just keeping the PRO for those who still need a Optical drive. They can't switch completely away from that yet. They won't expect to sell many of the PRO models but they are beefing them up to the same performance level for those that still need that Optical drive. This new model is the replacement for the PRO but they need to keep an Optical drive model around for a while.
This new model will be more powerful than the Airs so they won't combine those two models.
I think this is correct. It is the OMG the sky is falling people who would freak out even though they probably aren't even in the market for a new MBP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn
I think they are just keeping the PRO for those who still need a Optical drive. They can't switch completely away from that yet.
Sure they can. Long time coming. No need for one at all anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Maybe they should keep the 17" as the only Pro model and "really" make it Pro with all the bells and whistles.
....
This won't work because only a small percentage of Pro users want the 17" laptops.
It makes more sense to do what they are actually doing here which is get rid of the part of the Pro line that doesn't sell as well, and focus on keeping around the 13" and 15" until such time as people are moving to the new line in larger numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This won't work because only a small percentage of Pro users want the 17" laptops.
Yeah I know but only a small percentage of people who think they are Pro users really are. Most people realize they can 'get by' with a 15".
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Maybe they should keep the 17" as the only Pro model and "really" make it Pro with all the bells and whistles.
I have the 15" MBP and I like having the optical drive, the ethernet plug, and the assorted I/O capabilities, but I rarely use them. I do however think a powerful CPU/GPU is important for graphics work when on the road. Ideally that sort of work is done on a desktop machine but occasionally I have to whip something together while on the road. Smoothly running Adobe CS is a must for me. Other than that, a notebook is a secondary device for me.
You know it's becoming much easier to do a lot of that kind of stuff on a laptop with enough ram. 16GB of ram or more makes an incredible difference, and some functions are gaining OpenCL acceleration which seems to perform quite well even on laptops Note this. It may not describe everything, but that would have been a heavy adjustment to incur such long times in cpu only mode. The issues are coming down to IO, display size/quality, and ergonomics. There are still many things in favor of a desktop, but sometimes it's possible to consolidate rather than continuing to update separate machines. Regarding IO capabilities, people are different. Some of them do use certain features but not others. Removing them just means those options and choices go away because they're not universal requirements. The idea that they should all be the same is more marketing than anything. It's cheaper for Apple. It sells more machines. You don't really gain much if anything in return. The guys who say they want a 15" Air may reconsider if it's lacking that featherweight quality yet still less capable.
It's possible that in the longer term, designs from Intel and possibly AMD+ NVidia may change in the mobile space. If the mainstream heads toward sub 10W designs rather than starting from higher power ones and reverse engineering toward lower power, we may see this. I'd still like to keep the ports though. With a little less tapering, you could have way more ports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn
I think they are just keeping the PRO for those who still need a Optical drive.
Since the optical drive actually makes it less pro than one without it, it's implausible that there would be little other difference between such two models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn
They can't switch completely away from that yet. They won't expect to sell many of the PRO models but they are beefing them up to the same performance level for those that still need that Optical drive. This new model is the replacement for the PRO but they need to keep an Optical drive model around for a while.
This new model will be more powerful than the Airs so they won't combine those two models.
That doesn't make much sense. Not only CAN they switch away from it but Apple has a history of big moves instead of slow transitions when they look at the future and see, for example, that hardly anyone needs a built-in optical drive anymore in their laptop. Especially Apple users, given how Apple has stopped providing disc content for nearly all of their product.
Whether or not an optical drive appears anywhere I wouldn't chalk it up to Apple feeling they can't abandon those who'd like one.
Ok, so Apple is going to keep the MacBook Pro and rename the MacBook Air to just MacBook. Then next year they drop the Pro and just have one MacBook line. What's so hard to understand about that?
If they replace the sexy black display bezel on the 15" with that horrible metal color, like the ones on the 11" and 13" Macbook Airs, I'm gonna vomit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwindmann
If they replace the sexy black display bezel on the 15" with that horrible metal color, like the ones on the 11" and 13" Macbook Airs, I'm gonna vomit.
Did you vomit for the six years the aluminum PowerBook design was used? How about the titanium PowerBook design? :wherefore_art_thou,_rolleyes_emoticon.gif:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck
If this is true, it is a muddled mess IMHO. Shades of the Performa days when Apple had a bunch of slightly different models. Hard to believe.
-kpluck
Yes, four choices is SO HARD to understand. All you anal-retentives out there need to calm down. There's nothing wrong with making different models for different types of users.
It's most certainly not shades of the Performa days. And even after Steve's return, it took a long time to drop to just a handful of products:
1995: 38 Desktops/Towers, 10 PowerBooks
1996: 40 Desktops/Towers, 4 PowerBooks
1997: 45 Desktops/Towers, 8 PowerBooks
(Steve returns in July of '97)
1998: 14 Desktops/Towers, 14 PowerBooks
1999: 20 Desktops/Towers, 3 iBooks, PowerBooks
2000: 13 Desktops/Towers, 16 iBooks, PowerBooks
2001: 16 Desktops/Towers, 16 laptops
2002: 21 Desktops/Towers, 16 laptops
2003: 18 Desktops/Towers, 13 laptops
2004: 9 Desktops/Towers, 11 laptops
2005: 19 Desktops/Towers, 10 laptops
2006: 15 Desktops/Towers, 17 laptops
2007: 10 Desktops/Towers, 9 laptops
2008: 6 Desktops/Towers, 19 laptops
2009: 14 Desktops/Towers, 12 laptops
2010: 9 Desktops/Towers, 11 laptops, 6 iPads
2011: 7 Desktops/Towers, 14 laptops, 6 iPads (18 configurations)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
There are still many things in favor of a desktop, but sometimes it's possible to consolidate rather than continuing to update separate machines.
It is also an issue of ergonomics for me. Working on a notebook screen placed at the desk level is the wrong height and the wrong distance from the keyboard which is also uncomfortable for working extended hours. Just my opinion, but I am spoiled with my Mac Pro and 30" Cinema, high end ergonomic desk and chair. Working on my MBP is a total compromise for the sake of portability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
Yes, four choices is SO HARD to understand. All you anal-retentives out there need to calm down. There's nothing wrong with making different models for different types of users.
It's most certainly not shades of the Performa days. And even after Steve's return, it took a long time to drop to just a handful of products:
1995: 38 Desktops/Towers, 10 PowerBooks
1996: 40 Desktops/Towers, 4 PowerBooks
1997: 45 Desktops/Towers, 8 PowerBooks
(Steve returns in July of '97)
1998: 14 Desktops/Towers, 14 PowerBooks
1999: 20 Desktops/Towers, 3 iBooks, PowerBooks
2000: 13 Desktops/Towers, 16 iBooks, PowerBooks
2001: 16 Desktops/Towers, 16 laptops
2002: 21 Desktops/Towers, 16 laptops
2003: 18 Desktops/Towers, 13 laptops
2004: 9 Desktops/Towers, 11 laptops
2005: 19 Desktops/Towers, 10 laptops
2006: 15 Desktops/Towers, 17 laptops
2007: 10 Desktops/Towers, 9 laptops
2008: 6 Desktops/Towers, 19 laptops
2009: 14 Desktops/Towers, 12 laptops
2010: 9 Desktops/Towers, 11 laptops, 6 iPads
2011: 7 Desktops/Towers, 14 laptops, 6 iPads (18 configurations)
No, we're not talking at all about BTO configurations.
Please be 14" and 16" with narrow edge. Makes much more sense to consolidate this way.
13"-->14"<--15"-->16"<--17"
How are you counting the desktops? Right now, I see 3 minis, 4 iMacs and 4 Mac Pros, making it 11 Desktops/Towers. And that's excluding any BTO permutations.
What this looks like to me is Apple is going to replace the MBP but will keep it available for some time - exactly as they did with the iPad and iPhone.
If the keep MBP around for a year, it will be hard to argue for keeping the ODD beyond that. The very small number of people who really need it can use an external.
I too agree the current MBP is an antiqued design, and will go away in time. If so, why compare the "new Macbooks" with something that's going away?
I feel the more interesting thinking, is, why should the "new Macbooks" be called "Macbook Air+". Like what others have suggested, it is essentially one line (MBA) with 3 sizes: 11", 13" & 15".
11" Macbook Air
13" Macbook Air
13" new Macbook
15" new Macbook
CPU
2.6GHz dual-core
2.8GHz dual-core
2.3Ghz quad-core
2.6Ghz quad-core
GPU
Intel HD 4000
Discrete
Thickness
0.68" (17mm)
Display
1366x768
1440x900
2560x1600
2880x1800
Battery
4680 mAh
6700 mAh
Up to 6924 mAh
RAM
(Fixed!) 4GB
(SO-DIMM) 2x2GB or more
Storage
(Fixed!) SSD
(2.5") SSD or HDD
Price
US$999-1,199
US$1,299-1,599
US$1,199-1,499
US$1,799-2,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I just hope Apple (Tim) keeps in mind that the second coming of Steve was about new innovation and simplification of the product line. The last thing Apple should do is have too many products. IMHO they won't make that mistake.
LOL - who do you think taught Steve how to cut down supply chain fat and reduce inventory and waste? = Tim Cook.
All the "second coming of Steve" crap is a joke - do people really think all the great products and progress Apple made in the last 10 years was all done personally by Steve Jobs? Really? It takes thousands of Apple employees years to roll out these new products. One of the best thing Steve did when he returned was to hire smart people and let them do their job. Sure the press like to tell stories about Steve and quote "former Apple employees", but I have no doubt that Apple is in good hands and will continue to develop great products that customers love.
If anything, Tim Cook might be a little more flexible and willing to do things like release a thinner MacBook Pro line while still retaining a 15" model that has a built-in optical drive. Steve would have probably cancelled that all together and a bunch of people would have complained - and rightly so, because some professionals still have use for an optical drive.
Have faith all ye doubters.