Seriously, these things are not high mark up like software and they aren't ripping you off for software updates like Microsoft is, are they? NO. $30 or now $20 for a major OS release rather than what MS charges.
OR better yet, make your own PC and Operating System and see how far you get. GO to Fry's or some component Build it Yourself computer parts store and make your own computer.
If you feel the product is too expensive, then buy something else.
Microsoft doesn't care what you do with the software after you buy it. You can put it on any computer. Apple calls you a criminal if you put the software you purchased on any computer other than an Apple. If you exchange money for something and you can't do what you want to do with it then you don't own it. You are renting it.
If you put any software on your iDevices other than approved software from the Apple Store, Apple voids your warranty. How is that fair? What about all the people who updated their iPhones and iPod Touches and lost functionality and data? Apple didn't do much to help those people.
When companies act that way they loose business and their reputation suffers. I think Apple is peaking right now.
Making a custom computer is challenging. The good thing about it is everything you want in it will be in it. It might cost more but it would be perfect for you.
If Microsoft keeps making crappy software and Apple continues to disregard their power users, more people will continue switching to alternatives. Installing an alternative OS was daunting for me in 2010. With help from people on the Ubuntu forums I got through it. Now my HP runs fast without problems and I love it.
Ubuntu Linux is getting really easy to install and get working. It comes with many hardware drivers already installed. It's time for me to switch from Ubuntu 10.04 to the latest version. I'm getting a variant called Bodhi when the newest version comes out in July. It will be filled with only the software I want and nothing more. It will be totally customized by me for me. It won't have any of the excess programs that come with Windows or OS X.
If Microsoft and Apple continue angering people nothing really bad will happen to them for a while. They're gigantic. Over time more people will stop buying their stuff. Eventually another player will come along and they'll be in trouble. Ubuntu is already so easy to install now that I think Microsoft will begin suffering in a couple of years. Apple won't be too far behind when people can buy a less expensive HP and put the FREE Ubuntu Linux software on it. Linux doesn't suck anymore.
Get rid of this glossy piece of iMac dung already.
Jonny can you hear me?
So get a MBP retina and a decent large screen monitor and have a nice day. That's what I might end up doing. That way you have a laptop/desktop in one slick unit that EVERYONE with another brand laptop will be drooling over. Yeah, I wish they announced a new iMac too, but i guess we'll have to wait for it or get a MBP solution.
Can you do with a 12 core system that they have now? What is it that you need that the current MacPro can't do? I am just curious.
It is not that it is incapable of any task it is just a poor investment spec-wise since it is two year old kit at full retail price.
It really isn't entirely Apple's fault though because Intel is behind schedule. Although the Sandy Bridge Xeons are out, I don't think they support USB 3 or Thunderbolt which would clearly be part of a major refresh. Why would Apple put out a major case and component redesign and leave those two highly desirable Pro features out. The sort of 'new' Mac Pro is adequate if you really need another one in the shop right now, but as a solo freelancer trying to make a decision to buy their first Mac Pro this doesn't look like a great time to buy one from an investment stand point. For me it would have been nice to upgrade to an all new Mac Pro that would last another 5 years, but my current Mac Pro is running just fine so I'll wait. Now that I understand that I wouldn't get TB and USB 3 anyway I can see why they did what they did.
Ubuntu Linux is getting really easy to install and get working. It comes with many hardware drivers already installed. It's time for me to switch from Ubuntu 10.04 to the latest version. I'm getting a variant called Bodhi when the newest version comes out in July. It will be filled with only the software I want and nothing more. It will be totally customized by me for me. It won't have any of the excess programs that come with Windows or OS X.
If Microsoft and Apple continue angering people nothing really bad will happen to them for a while. They're gigantic. Over time more people will stop buying their stuff. Eventually another player will come along and they'll be in trouble. Ubuntu is already so easy to install now that I think Microsoft will begin suffering in a couple of years. Apple won't be too far behind when people can buy a less expensive HP and put the FREE Ubuntu Linux software on it. Linux doesn't suck anymore.
Doubt it. Linux is still a rounding error on the consumer desktop. Big in servers but for the average non-geek it has no traction whatsoever.
It's amazing how many people who have no interest in the Mac Pro's, feel they should no longer be made for those of us who want one. If we express desires of bells & whistles we like, we're marginalized by those who feel they know more & what is better for us. Some criticize the old design, the handles, the weight. I tell you this, if I had $3000-1 million dollars of my life's work in one, the burglar will have to cut a motorcycle chain & then lug the heavy beast to his getaway vehicle…Its a great design. You know, the iPhone design is a tad dated too. Why not make it into a sweatband design with the speakers just above the ears. Oh, & the airlines, how long do we have to look at the same, stupid shape of a polished aluminum tube. Why not update it into the shape of a modern anvil? The Mac Pro was done right to begin with & saves precious R&D dollars & time to invest on your whims & money making. Its the same discussion with the 17" Mac Pro. Because people don't use it, or can't imagine the need for it, they pontificate & support the elimination of that as a choice for the rest of us.
I don't know what Apple has up their sleeve for a MacPro redesign. If they are going to put in Thunderbolt, the case has to redesigned, it might be small but it still has to get some changes. Maybe they'll make it a rack mount system, I don't know. For the internal guts, Intel announces new chips and the high end chips don't always ship in massive quantities because of their yield. In addition, Apple might be waiting for a new graphics card, a new bus design, newly designed cooling system because the new processors run hotter, they might come out with new features they don't want to leak yet because of competitive reasons. Whatever it is for them to ship a new MacPro that is actually a MAJOR release, there has to be some valid reasoning behind it. Apple has people internally that use MacPros just like you do and they want the latest and greatest too. The problem(s) might be with a supplier(s) or maybe a design issue they are trying to resolve that just takes time. Intel releasing a new chip takes at least 6 to 10 months sometimes to redesign the motherboard, case, testing, etc. Maybe this time it was delayed more than they want. I don't think Apple is intentionally delaying it to upset anyone. They just haven't gotten all of the pieces together to make it happen at the level everyone wants or expects and it obviously needs to be addressed. If I were Tim Cook, and i knew of this, like he should. I would flat out make a public statement to the community and let people know that something is coming out and things are taking longer than expected rather than remaining quiet. Sometimes it is better to address everyone's concerns once and for all and give people the reassurance they need, but it might be something out of their control and it might better for them to keep quiet until they actually have a major product announcement. Either way, I know it sucks to be left in the dark, no one likes that. But to add conjecture is futile.
The frustrating thing of it all is that I want to upgrade my 2008 iMac. As a prosumer working with HD and heavy duty files (video and photo) I am in need of an upgrade. Now, I can wait for a new model (which I have been...) or buy the latest version - doing so means I sell my 4.5 year old imac and purchase an imac that is "new" but over a year old! Not a chance.
It is not that it is incapable of any task it is just a poor investment spec-wise since it is two year old kit at full retail price.
It really isn't entirely Apple's fault though because Intel is behind schedule. Although the Sandy Bridge Xeons are out, I don't think they support USB 3 or Thunderbolt which would clearly be part of a major refresh. Why would Apple put out a major case and component redesign and leave those two highly desirable Pro features out. The sort of 'new' Mac Pro is adequate if you really need another one in the shop right now, but as a solo freelancer trying to make a decision to buy their first Mac Pro this doesn't look like a great time to buy one from an investment stand point. For me it would have been nice to upgrade to an all new Mac Pro that would last another 5 years, but my current Mac Pro is running just fine so I'll wait. Now that I understand that I wouldn't get TB and USB 3 anyway I can see why they did what they did.
IF you want USB 3, you can get a PCI express card from OtherWorldComputing for $79. There are Thunderbolt solutions, albeit not exactly pretty, but I would call OWC first since they know these systems pretty well and how to get around the small stuff.
The frustrating thing of it all is that I want to upgrade my 2008 iMac. As a prosumer working with HD and heavy duty files (video and photo) I am in need of an upgrade. Now, I can wait for a new model (which I have been...) or buy the latest version - doing so means I sell my 4.5 year old imac and purchase an imac that is "new" but over a year old! Not a chance.
Heck for an iMac, I would get a MBP retina, some fast Thunderbolt drives and a big screen and do it that way. I think the new iMac won't be out until Jan/Feb is MY guess, but that's just a guess. But that MBP retina is slick and you can put 16 G of RAM, which hopefully should be enough.
You know what else makes it look like Apple doesn't care about the pro line anymore? The industrial design. The "cheese grater" case has been around how long now? Almost exactly nine years, with the introduction of the PowerMac G5. Apple has never kept any design for any other computer around that long. It's not like it's a great design, either. Bulky, with those curved handles. Ridiculously heavy thanks to the heavy gauge aluminum. And to my eyes, butt ugly. Sure is less elegant than the simple and sleek Quicksilver (but similarly bulky) PowerMac G4. Granted, the internals are very neatly laid out and getting to them is easier than with PC towers. But to be absolutely honest, a very dated design.
The ridiculously heavy and thick aluminum is what helps keep it quiet. Its not hard to make a light case, but light non rattly case is hard to make. Besides it's not like you will be carrying your desktop case around the house daily.
To me Mac Pro is timeless design and just as beautiful as the first time I saw it.
But all this is beside the point. Apple is all about mobile now and making profit above all. Caring days and principles are gone.
Think if this way, whatever you get is still a prototype of the new version. It's always been that way, it will alway be that way and there isn't anything we can do about. So, we all need to sit back and relax with a nice tall glass of STFU until Apple releases some information or a new product OR if you can buy a MacBookPro retina and be the envy of EVERYONE that uses a WIndows laptop.
And for those waiting for the iPhone, they are releasing a new one by Thanksgiving.
Heck for an iMac, I would get a MBP retina, some fast Thunderbolt drives and a big screen and do it that way. I think the new iMac won't be out until Jan/Feb is MY guess, but that's just a guess. But that MBP retina is slick and you can put 16 G of RAM, which hopefully should be enough.
What am I supposed to do with 256MB of storage? So... smaller screen (half the size) and something that requires an external on top of that? No thanks.
You know what? I think you should buy a Dell or an HP, or better yet, go buy an Acer leave Appleinsider because it sounds like you aren't the type of person that Apple needs or even wants as a customer. If I was Apple and I found out who you were, I walk over to your business with a BRAND new Dell hunk of junk, take your Apple away from you and give you a restraining order to buy anything from Apple ever again. Yes, component prices go down, but guess what shipping costs have gone up, labor costs have gone up and other things have gone up, the dollar has been devalued. They aren't making a TON of money on desktops in the first place. Do you think Aluminum prices have gone down? Seriously, these things are not high mark up like software and they aren't ripping you off for software updates like Microsoft is, are they? NO. $30 or now $20 for a major OS release rather than what MS charges. You really need to understand the cost of doing business before you open your mouth. OR better yet, make your own PC and Operating System and see how far you get. GO to Fry's or some component Build it Yourself computer parts store and make your own computer.
When Apple buys components they typically do YEARLY purchases or some kind of BIG contract. If a particular component price drops significantly below what they bought it under their contract, they don't always get automatic price protection. OK? So, when they made their contract for 1333DDR memory, it was done at the time when they initiated the contract. IF the price of memory dropped because memory companies are dumping memory, Apple, just most other computer mfg don't always get price protection. Now, if you don't want to understand this, then no one can help you. If you feel the product is too expensive, then buy something else. Computer hardware is not, nor will it ever be high margin products.
If it was not for people like me- I run a small publishing outfit and have done since 1996 - Apple would have gone bankrupt in the late 1990's.
Since purchasing my first Mac at University, a LCII, I have owned personally more that 20 Macs in total, among them laptops and desktops - for my line of work, the October 2009 27in iMac's have been good workhorses, particularly given one does not need the power of the Mac Pro.
Obviously, the majority of the Mac's I've owned have been for work purposes and not for showing off as the next best thing - I was even an early adopter of the first iPod - an eye opener when it first appeared and the iTouch, which I rate a great deal more than a iPhone - all iMacs I've ever owned have been covered by AppleCare and business contracts with Apple third parties.
So, in your misguided opinion, someone who was supporting Apple from its early days, stayed with the business during it struggle for survival in the mid 1990's and utilises its iMac's and Mac Mini's presently - i.e. I've purchased 6 post October 2009 iMac's, together with a Mac Mini server and and regular Mac Mini circa 2010 revision, my last 2 purchases in May last year - Apple should just 'Sh-T' on me and many users like me - that is small businesses and self employed.
Perhaps a little honesty would be helpful from Apple, particularly where business planning is concerned for new equipment, instead, all we get are whispers and rumours, fine for a consumer-focused business, not so fine for a business that services other businesses - at least Intel has the decency to show us roadmaps - I wonder where Apple would be if Intel run its business based on rumours and throwing surprises - the answer to that is no where.
I am no Apple Fanbois, I have used there products for a long time, but, if you think I'm upgrading all my business to Thunderbolt and USB-3 - quite a transition from FW800 - I'd like to know where I stand with hardware and what hardware to expect by the years end and a iMac designed and running on 2010 technology just does not cut it in terms of a three year investment, the minimum I expect my office machines to run for, preferably, 4 -5 years.
Not too much to ask is it - It is as far as you and Apple are concerned, hence they are losing business.
There is no job in 2012 you can do on a Mac Pro that you cannot do on a Macbook Pro.
Well anything that needs more than 16GB of RAM you can't do on even the newest MBP. Anything that really requires 16 lanes of PCIe, not just runs slower, although on that point I can't think of anything.
The memory is occasionally a bottleneck for me so I use a real workstation but it's science code so not a normal use case.
Editing 4K video on a MBA with the RED Rocket while the session was being recorded live on a Ultrastudio 3D onto a Promise RAID. I think the new Retina MBP would be just ducky with two TB ports.
Apple's actions with this Mac Pro "update" are just about as compelling as Obama tweating his support for Barrett ahead of Wisconsin's recall election. Too little, too late.
So, in your misguided opinion, someone who was supporting Apple from its early days, stayed with the business during it struggle for survival in the mid 1990's and utilises its iMac's and Mac Mini's presently - i.e. I've purchased 6 post October 2009 iMac's, together with a Mac Mini server and and regular Mac Mini circa 2010 revision, my last 2 purchases in May last year - Apple should just 'Sh-T' on me and many users like me - that is small businesses and self employed.
Perhaps a little honesty would be helpful from Apple, particularly where business planning is concerned for new equipment, instead, all we get are whispers and rumours, fine for a consumer-focused business, not so fine for a business that services other businesses - at least Intel has the decency to show us roadmaps - I wonder where Apple would be if Intel run its business based on rumours and throwing surprises - the answer to that is no where.
I am no Apple Fanbois, I have used there products for a long time, but, if you think I'm upgrading all my business to Thunderbolt and USB-3 - quite a transition from FW800 - I'd like to know where I stand with hardware and what hardware to expect by the years end and a iMac designed and running on 2010 technology just does not cut it in terms of a three year investment, the minimum I expect my office machines to run for, preferably, 4 -5 years.
Not too much to ask is it - It is as far as you and Apple are concerned, hence they are losing business.
After all these years you haven't figured out that Apple is secretive and figured out how to mitigate that in your capex planning?
And no, Apple isn't losing business...even if many pros say they are jumping ship because of the Mac Pro, FCPX, blah blah blah. A few that need to update right this second might revamp their entire workflow away from OSX to Windows. Most probably wont right away because it's a huge f-ing impact to their business. By then things will be different.
Upgrading from FW800 to USB3/TB is a no brainer. Whatever you switch to will have USB3 and TB support. How is this even an issue?
And you have a 4-5 year replacement cycle? Then you have another 2 years left on your 2010 iMacs and minis...why are you bitching now? And last year you got a 100% depreciation bonus on all the computers you bought. It's all written off.
The ridiculously heavy and thick aluminum is what helps keep it quiet. Its not hard to make a light case, but light non rattly case is hard to make. Besides it's not like you will be carrying your desktop case around the house daily.
To me Mac Pro is timeless design and just as beautiful as the first time I saw it.
But all this is beside the point. Apple is all about mobile now and making profit above all. Caring days and principles are gone.
Caring days and principals are gone? No, I don't believe that. I think that Apple has to deal with a number of issues relating to their suppliers, increased demand for their products, changes with various technologies, growing pains, etc. They haven't grown this fast before and that's something we don't see. All we see is the product on the shelves. The time when we got 2 revs are year are gone. Now, we get once a year and SOMETIMES once every 1.5 to 2 years depending on the product. They are also VERY careful in how they manage production which in of itself is an artform. Apple would LOVE to pump out a great new refresh every year satisfying all of their customers and to attract more, but they can't do it all of the time and we just have to deal with it, just like the PC guys can't do it either. Apple has had Thunderbolt on the lower line products which Windows PC users don't have. Apple has better, slicker cases. Whatever problems that are addressing whatever updates we are waiting for may not be within Apple's control. They have more products on the shelves hardware/software than ever before and they have groups of people working on new stuff we haven't seen yet. Macs aren't going away, their just going through a period which happens. They can't get panel suppliers to advance their technology/mfg process any faster than they already are. So, we either deal with it, or get what I personally believe is a BIGGER problem, WINDOWS and the ever persistent low cost, low quality pcs. I'm happy that Apple has a much faster to market OS and that it has been improving over the years. Microsoft won't get to that point. They've always been on a 3 year cycle and that's why THEY are behind. I think some people are just spoiled and they demand more than what they can get and unfortunately some are never pleased.
The frustrating thing of it all is that I want to upgrade my 2008 iMac. As a prosumer working with HD and heavy duty files (video and photo) I am in need of an upgrade. Now, I can wait for a new model (which I have been...) or buy the latest version - doing so means I sell my 4.5 year old imac and purchase an imac that is "new" but over a year old! Not a chance.
I'm in a similar spot in terms of a decision on a new iMac - but I don't have heavy duty file needs right now so I can wait. But in your position, you may want to look at the relative merits of the 'year old' Sandy Bridge (tock) tech in the current iMac vs. the improvements you might expect from ivy bridge (tick). The big benefit from ivy appears to be reduced energy consumption, something I would definitely like to have. But the over all computing performance (your need) is more on the order of 10 percent or so - hardly an earth shattering improvement. Moreover, the graphics card in the 2011 iMac best model is superior to what you can get now with their new "flagship" (from the presentation yesterday) macbook pro. It's a damn powerful machine and way way better for your tasks than what you have now.
That said, I believe the comment made to Pogue was more likely about more fundamental redesigns of iMac and Mac pro then spec upgrades. i.e. they've just done a clearly funky upgrade to the mac pro and I sympathize with the frustration of those who need them; but, unless they do a spec bump on the video card for the pro, Apple apparently isn't doing anything big until next year when the Haslem processors (the next tock) start to roll out - they will bring big computing improvements to the pro. if I was a pro, I'd want to wait for that instead of the more modest improvements of current tech in terms of future proofing, but macpro is already behind two ticks and a tock.
But for the iMac you and I are interested in, I think the exec's comment was about bringing out the next generation iMac to match the notebooks - retinal display, perhaps dual SSD/hard drive etc. In the meantime, Apple may well come out with a mid term spec bump to the iMac with ivy bridge and maybe a modest graphics card update. It's easy for me to wait for August/September to see if that happens. But in your case, if you want to stay with OSX and are hampered by your current system, that upgrade won't blow your socks off compared to the fairly robust performance of the current iMac.
In terms of regrets analysis, note that this time next year, the next big improvement to intel chips will make a significant difference in terms of performance for more intensive work for the iMac and macbook pros. That's why I'll hold off till next year for upgrading my macbook pro (cheaper SSDs and huge gain in performance), but consider buying any interim improvement for the iMac that comes out in the next few months. But if there's nothing new by November, I'll wait for the first Haslem imac. What I like about the Pogue revelation is that it appears Apple is still committed to the desktop.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Seriously, these things are not high mark up like software and they aren't ripping you off for software updates like Microsoft is, are they? NO. $30 or now $20 for a major OS release rather than what MS charges.
OR better yet, make your own PC and Operating System and see how far you get. GO to Fry's or some component Build it Yourself computer parts store and make your own computer.
If you feel the product is too expensive, then buy something else.
Microsoft doesn't care what you do with the software after you buy it. You can put it on any computer. Apple calls you a criminal if you put the software you purchased on any computer other than an Apple. If you exchange money for something and you can't do what you want to do with it then you don't own it. You are renting it.
If you put any software on your iDevices other than approved software from the Apple Store, Apple voids your warranty. How is that fair? What about all the people who updated their iPhones and iPod Touches and lost functionality and data? Apple didn't do much to help those people.
When companies act that way they loose business and their reputation suffers. I think Apple is peaking right now.
Making a custom computer is challenging. The good thing about it is everything you want in it will be in it. It might cost more but it would be perfect for you.
If Microsoft keeps making crappy software and Apple continues to disregard their power users, more people will continue switching to alternatives. Installing an alternative OS was daunting for me in 2010. With help from people on the Ubuntu forums I got through it. Now my HP runs fast without problems and I love it.
Ubuntu Linux is getting really easy to install and get working. It comes with many hardware drivers already installed. It's time for me to switch from Ubuntu 10.04 to the latest version. I'm getting a variant called Bodhi when the newest version comes out in July. It will be filled with only the software I want and nothing more. It will be totally customized by me for me. It won't have any of the excess programs that come with Windows or OS X.
If Microsoft and Apple continue angering people nothing really bad will happen to them for a while. They're gigantic. Over time more people will stop buying their stuff. Eventually another player will come along and they'll be in trouble. Ubuntu is already so easy to install now that I think Microsoft will begin suffering in a couple of years. Apple won't be too far behind when people can buy a less expensive HP and put the FREE Ubuntu Linux software on it. Linux doesn't suck anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon
Get rid of this glossy piece of iMac dung already.
Jonny can you hear me?
So get a MBP retina and a decent large screen monitor and have a nice day. That's what I might end up doing. That way you have a laptop/desktop in one slick unit that EVERYONE with another brand laptop will be drooling over. Yeah, I wish they announced a new iMac too, but i guess we'll have to wait for it or get a MBP solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Can you do with a 12 core system that they have now? What is it that you need that the current MacPro can't do? I am just curious.
It is not that it is incapable of any task it is just a poor investment spec-wise since it is two year old kit at full retail price.
It really isn't entirely Apple's fault though because Intel is behind schedule. Although the Sandy Bridge Xeons are out, I don't think they support USB 3 or Thunderbolt which would clearly be part of a major refresh. Why would Apple put out a major case and component redesign and leave those two highly desirable Pro features out. The sort of 'new' Mac Pro is adequate if you really need another one in the shop right now, but as a solo freelancer trying to make a decision to buy their first Mac Pro this doesn't look like a great time to buy one from an investment stand point. For me it would have been nice to upgrade to an all new Mac Pro that would last another 5 years, but my current Mac Pro is running just fine so I'll wait. Now that I understand that I wouldn't get TB and USB 3 anyway I can see why they did what they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
Ubuntu Linux is getting really easy to install and get working. It comes with many hardware drivers already installed. It's time for me to switch from Ubuntu 10.04 to the latest version. I'm getting a variant called Bodhi when the newest version comes out in July. It will be filled with only the software I want and nothing more. It will be totally customized by me for me. It won't have any of the excess programs that come with Windows or OS X.
If Microsoft and Apple continue angering people nothing really bad will happen to them for a while. They're gigantic. Over time more people will stop buying their stuff. Eventually another player will come along and they'll be in trouble. Ubuntu is already so easy to install now that I think Microsoft will begin suffering in a couple of years. Apple won't be too far behind when people can buy a less expensive HP and put the FREE Ubuntu Linux software on it. Linux doesn't suck anymore.
Doubt it. Linux is still a rounding error on the consumer desktop. Big in servers but for the average non-geek it has no traction whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u
It's amazing how many people who have no interest in the Mac Pro's, feel they should no longer be made for those of us who want one. If we express desires of bells & whistles we like, we're marginalized by those who feel they know more & what is better for us. Some criticize the old design, the handles, the weight. I tell you this, if I had $3000-1 million dollars of my life's work in one, the burglar will have to cut a motorcycle chain & then lug the heavy beast to his getaway vehicle…Its a great design. You know, the iPhone design is a tad dated too. Why not make it into a sweatband design with the speakers just above the ears. Oh, & the airlines, how long do we have to look at the same, stupid shape of a polished aluminum tube. Why not update it into the shape of a modern anvil? The Mac Pro was done right to begin with & saves precious R&D dollars & time to invest on your whims & money making. Its the same discussion with the 17" Mac Pro. Because people don't use it, or can't imagine the need for it, they pontificate & support the elimination of that as a choice for the rest of us.
I don't know what Apple has up their sleeve for a MacPro redesign. If they are going to put in Thunderbolt, the case has to redesigned, it might be small but it still has to get some changes. Maybe they'll make it a rack mount system, I don't know. For the internal guts, Intel announces new chips and the high end chips don't always ship in massive quantities because of their yield. In addition, Apple might be waiting for a new graphics card, a new bus design, newly designed cooling system because the new processors run hotter, they might come out with new features they don't want to leak yet because of competitive reasons. Whatever it is for them to ship a new MacPro that is actually a MAJOR release, there has to be some valid reasoning behind it. Apple has people internally that use MacPros just like you do and they want the latest and greatest too. The problem(s) might be with a supplier(s) or maybe a design issue they are trying to resolve that just takes time. Intel releasing a new chip takes at least 6 to 10 months sometimes to redesign the motherboard, case, testing, etc. Maybe this time it was delayed more than they want. I don't think Apple is intentionally delaying it to upset anyone. They just haven't gotten all of the pieces together to make it happen at the level everyone wants or expects and it obviously needs to be addressed. If I were Tim Cook, and i knew of this, like he should. I would flat out make a public statement to the community and let people know that something is coming out and things are taking longer than expected rather than remaining quiet. Sometimes it is better to address everyone's concerns once and for all and give people the reassurance they need, but it might be something out of their control and it might better for them to keep quiet until they actually have a major product announcement. Either way, I know it sucks to be left in the dark, no one likes that. But to add conjecture is futile.
The frustrating thing of it all is that I want to upgrade my 2008 iMac. As a prosumer working with HD and heavy duty files (video and photo) I am in need of an upgrade. Now, I can wait for a new model (which I have been...) or buy the latest version - doing so means I sell my 4.5 year old imac and purchase an imac that is "new" but over a year old! Not a chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
It is not that it is incapable of any task it is just a poor investment spec-wise since it is two year old kit at full retail price.
It really isn't entirely Apple's fault though because Intel is behind schedule. Although the Sandy Bridge Xeons are out, I don't think they support USB 3 or Thunderbolt which would clearly be part of a major refresh. Why would Apple put out a major case and component redesign and leave those two highly desirable Pro features out. The sort of 'new' Mac Pro is adequate if you really need another one in the shop right now, but as a solo freelancer trying to make a decision to buy their first Mac Pro this doesn't look like a great time to buy one from an investment stand point. For me it would have been nice to upgrade to an all new Mac Pro that would last another 5 years, but my current Mac Pro is running just fine so I'll wait. Now that I understand that I wouldn't get TB and USB 3 anyway I can see why they did what they did.
IF you want USB 3, you can get a PCI express card from OtherWorldComputing for $79. There are Thunderbolt solutions, albeit not exactly pretty, but I would call OWC first since they know these systems pretty well and how to get around the small stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalidrama
The frustrating thing of it all is that I want to upgrade my 2008 iMac. As a prosumer working with HD and heavy duty files (video and photo) I am in need of an upgrade. Now, I can wait for a new model (which I have been...) or buy the latest version - doing so means I sell my 4.5 year old imac and purchase an imac that is "new" but over a year old! Not a chance.
Heck for an iMac, I would get a MBP retina, some fast Thunderbolt drives and a big screen and do it that way. I think the new iMac won't be out until Jan/Feb is MY guess, but that's just a guess. But that MBP retina is slick and you can put 16 G of RAM, which hopefully should be enough.
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Originally Posted by Kolchak
You know what else makes it look like Apple doesn't care about the pro line anymore? The industrial design. The "cheese grater" case has been around how long now? Almost exactly nine years, with the introduction of the PowerMac G5. Apple has never kept any design for any other computer around that long. It's not like it's a great design, either. Bulky, with those curved handles. Ridiculously heavy thanks to the heavy gauge aluminum. And to my eyes, butt ugly. Sure is less elegant than the simple and sleek Quicksilver (but similarly bulky) PowerMac G4. Granted, the internals are very neatly laid out and getting to them is easier than with PC towers. But to be absolutely honest, a very dated design.
The ridiculously heavy and thick aluminum is what helps keep it quiet. Its not hard to make a light case, but light non rattly case is hard to make. Besides it's not like you will be carrying your desktop case around the house daily.
To me Mac Pro is timeless design and just as beautiful as the first time I saw it.
But all this is beside the point. Apple is all about mobile now and making profit above all. Caring days and principles are gone.
Think if this way, whatever you get is still a prototype of the new version. It's always been that way, it will alway be that way and there isn't anything we can do about. So, we all need to sit back and relax with a nice tall glass of STFU until Apple releases some information or a new product OR if you can buy a MacBookPro retina and be the envy of EVERYONE that uses a WIndows laptop.
And for those waiting for the iPhone, they are releasing a new one by Thanksgiving.
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Originally Posted by Mario
But all this is beside the point. Apple is all about mobile now and making profit above all. Caring days and principles are gone.
As well they should be. That's a market that can only go up, up, UP! Just ask Motorola, Nokia, RIM...
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Originally Posted by drblank
Heck for an iMac, I would get a MBP retina, some fast Thunderbolt drives and a big screen and do it that way. I think the new iMac won't be out until Jan/Feb is MY guess, but that's just a guess. But that MBP retina is slick and you can put 16 G of RAM, which hopefully should be enough.
What am I supposed to do with 256MB of storage? So... smaller screen (half the size) and something that requires an external on top of that? No thanks.
Either sell it and buy the Thunderbolt equivalent:
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/ultrastudio3d/
or use it in a PCI box:
http://www.magma.com/thunderbolt.asp
The price of the latter will drop over time.
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Originally Posted by drblank
You know what? I think you should buy a Dell or an HP, or better yet, go buy an Acer leave Appleinsider because it sounds like you aren't the type of person that Apple needs or even wants as a customer. If I was Apple and I found out who you were, I walk over to your business with a BRAND new Dell hunk of junk, take your Apple away from you and give you a restraining order to buy anything from Apple ever again. Yes, component prices go down, but guess what shipping costs have gone up, labor costs have gone up and other things have gone up, the dollar has been devalued. They aren't making a TON of money on desktops in the first place. Do you think Aluminum prices have gone down? Seriously, these things are not high mark up like software and they aren't ripping you off for software updates like Microsoft is, are they? NO. $30 or now $20 for a major OS release rather than what MS charges. You really need to understand the cost of doing business before you open your mouth. OR better yet, make your own PC and Operating System and see how far you get. GO to Fry's or some component Build it Yourself computer parts store and make your own computer.
When Apple buys components they typically do YEARLY purchases or some kind of BIG contract. If a particular component price drops significantly below what they bought it under their contract, they don't always get automatic price protection. OK? So, when they made their contract for 1333DDR memory, it was done at the time when they initiated the contract. IF the price of memory dropped because memory companies are dumping memory, Apple, just most other computer mfg don't always get price protection. Now, if you don't want to understand this, then no one can help you. If you feel the product is too expensive, then buy something else. Computer hardware is not, nor will it ever be high margin products.
If it was not for people like me- I run a small publishing outfit and have done since 1996 - Apple would have gone bankrupt in the late 1990's.
Since purchasing my first Mac at University, a LCII, I have owned personally more that 20 Macs in total, among them laptops and desktops - for my line of work, the October 2009 27in iMac's have been good workhorses, particularly given one does not need the power of the Mac Pro.
Obviously, the majority of the Mac's I've owned have been for work purposes and not for showing off as the next best thing - I was even an early adopter of the first iPod - an eye opener when it first appeared and the iTouch, which I rate a great deal more than a iPhone - all iMacs I've ever owned have been covered by AppleCare and business contracts with Apple third parties.
So, in your misguided opinion, someone who was supporting Apple from its early days, stayed with the business during it struggle for survival in the mid 1990's and utilises its iMac's and Mac Mini's presently - i.e. I've purchased 6 post October 2009 iMac's, together with a Mac Mini server and and regular Mac Mini circa 2010 revision, my last 2 purchases in May last year - Apple should just 'Sh-T' on me and many users like me - that is small businesses and self employed.
Perhaps a little honesty would be helpful from Apple, particularly where business planning is concerned for new equipment, instead, all we get are whispers and rumours, fine for a consumer-focused business, not so fine for a business that services other businesses - at least Intel has the decency to show us roadmaps - I wonder where Apple would be if Intel run its business based on rumours and throwing surprises - the answer to that is no where.
I am no Apple Fanbois, I have used there products for a long time, but, if you think I'm upgrading all my business to Thunderbolt and USB-3 - quite a transition from FW800 - I'd like to know where I stand with hardware and what hardware to expect by the years end and a iMac designed and running on 2010 technology just does not cut it in terms of a three year investment, the minimum I expect my office machines to run for, preferably, 4 -5 years.
Not too much to ask is it - It is as far as you and Apple are concerned, hence they are losing business.
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Originally Posted by Marvin
There is no job in 2012 you can do on a Mac Pro that you cannot do on a Macbook Pro.
Well anything that needs more than 16GB of RAM you can't do on even the newest MBP. Anything that really requires 16 lanes of PCIe, not just runs slower, although on that point I can't think of anything.
The memory is occasionally a bottleneck for me so I use a real workstation but it's science code so not a normal use case.
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Originally Posted by Marvin
Either sell it and buy the Thunderbolt equivalent:
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/ultrastudio3d/
or use it in a PCI box:
http://www.magma.com/thunderbolt.asp
The price of the latter will drop over time.
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2012/01/editing-red-video-on-a-macbook-air.html
Editing 4K video on a MBA with the RED Rocket while the session was being recorded live on a Ultrastudio 3D onto a Promise RAID. I think the new Retina MBP would be just ducky with two TB ports.
As SJ might have said...Boom.
Apple's actions with this Mac Pro "update" are just about as compelling as Obama tweating his support for Barrett ahead of Wisconsin's recall election. Too little, too late.
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Originally Posted by 26Chrisr
If it was not for people like me- I run a small publishing outfit and have done since 1996 - Apple would have gone bankrupt in the late 1990's.
Oh please. Everyone thinks they saved Apple, pros, zealots, DTP, Microsoft, blah blah blah.
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So, in your misguided opinion, someone who was supporting Apple from its early days, stayed with the business during it struggle for survival in the mid 1990's and utilises its iMac's and Mac Mini's presently - i.e. I've purchased 6 post October 2009 iMac's, together with a Mac Mini server and and regular Mac Mini circa 2010 revision, my last 2 purchases in May last year - Apple should just 'Sh-T' on me and many users like me - that is small businesses and self employed.
Perhaps a little honesty would be helpful from Apple, particularly where business planning is concerned for new equipment, instead, all we get are whispers and rumours, fine for a consumer-focused business, not so fine for a business that services other businesses - at least Intel has the decency to show us roadmaps - I wonder where Apple would be if Intel run its business based on rumours and throwing surprises - the answer to that is no where.
I am no Apple Fanbois, I have used there products for a long time, but, if you think I'm upgrading all my business to Thunderbolt and USB-3 - quite a transition from FW800 - I'd like to know where I stand with hardware and what hardware to expect by the years end and a iMac designed and running on 2010 technology just does not cut it in terms of a three year investment, the minimum I expect my office machines to run for, preferably, 4 -5 years.
Not too much to ask is it - It is as far as you and Apple are concerned, hence they are losing business.
After all these years you haven't figured out that Apple is secretive and figured out how to mitigate that in your capex planning?
And no, Apple isn't losing business...even if many pros say they are jumping ship because of the Mac Pro, FCPX, blah blah blah. A few that need to update right this second might revamp their entire workflow away from OSX to Windows. Most probably wont right away because it's a huge f-ing impact to their business. By then things will be different.
Upgrading from FW800 to USB3/TB is a no brainer. Whatever you switch to will have USB3 and TB support. How is this even an issue?
And you have a 4-5 year replacement cycle? Then you have another 2 years left on your 2010 iMacs and minis...why are you bitching now? And last year you got a 100% depreciation bonus on all the computers you bought. It's all written off.
Jesus.
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Originally Posted by Mario
The ridiculously heavy and thick aluminum is what helps keep it quiet. Its not hard to make a light case, but light non rattly case is hard to make. Besides it's not like you will be carrying your desktop case around the house daily.
To me Mac Pro is timeless design and just as beautiful as the first time I saw it.
But all this is beside the point. Apple is all about mobile now and making profit above all. Caring days and principles are gone.
Caring days and principals are gone? No, I don't believe that. I think that Apple has to deal with a number of issues relating to their suppliers, increased demand for their products, changes with various technologies, growing pains, etc. They haven't grown this fast before and that's something we don't see. All we see is the product on the shelves. The time when we got 2 revs are year are gone. Now, we get once a year and SOMETIMES once every 1.5 to 2 years depending on the product. They are also VERY careful in how they manage production which in of itself is an artform. Apple would LOVE to pump out a great new refresh every year satisfying all of their customers and to attract more, but they can't do it all of the time and we just have to deal with it, just like the PC guys can't do it either. Apple has had Thunderbolt on the lower line products which Windows PC users don't have. Apple has better, slicker cases. Whatever problems that are addressing whatever updates we are waiting for may not be within Apple's control. They have more products on the shelves hardware/software than ever before and they have groups of people working on new stuff we haven't seen yet. Macs aren't going away, their just going through a period which happens. They can't get panel suppliers to advance their technology/mfg process any faster than they already are. So, we either deal with it, or get what I personally believe is a BIGGER problem, WINDOWS and the ever persistent low cost, low quality pcs. I'm happy that Apple has a much faster to market OS and that it has been improving over the years. Microsoft won't get to that point. They've always been on a 3 year cycle and that's why THEY are behind. I think some people are just spoiled and they demand more than what they can get and unfortunately some are never pleased.
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Originally Posted by dalidrama
The frustrating thing of it all is that I want to upgrade my 2008 iMac. As a prosumer working with HD and heavy duty files (video and photo) I am in need of an upgrade. Now, I can wait for a new model (which I have been...) or buy the latest version - doing so means I sell my 4.5 year old imac and purchase an imac that is "new" but over a year old! Not a chance.
I'm in a similar spot in terms of a decision on a new iMac - but I don't have heavy duty file needs right now so I can wait. But in your position, you may want to look at the relative merits of the 'year old' Sandy Bridge (tock) tech in the current iMac vs. the improvements you might expect from ivy bridge (tick). The big benefit from ivy appears to be reduced energy consumption, something I would definitely like to have. But the over all computing performance (your need) is more on the order of 10 percent or so - hardly an earth shattering improvement. Moreover, the graphics card in the 2011 iMac best model is superior to what you can get now with their new "flagship" (from the presentation yesterday) macbook pro. It's a damn powerful machine and way way better for your tasks than what you have now.
That said, I believe the comment made to Pogue was more likely about more fundamental redesigns of iMac and Mac pro then spec upgrades. i.e. they've just done a clearly funky upgrade to the mac pro and I sympathize with the frustration of those who need them; but, unless they do a spec bump on the video card for the pro, Apple apparently isn't doing anything big until next year when the Haslem processors (the next tock) start to roll out - they will bring big computing improvements to the pro. if I was a pro, I'd want to wait for that instead of the more modest improvements of current tech in terms of future proofing, but macpro is already behind two ticks and a tock.
But for the iMac you and I are interested in, I think the exec's comment was about bringing out the next generation iMac to match the notebooks - retinal display, perhaps dual SSD/hard drive etc. In the meantime, Apple may well come out with a mid term spec bump to the iMac with ivy bridge and maybe a modest graphics card update. It's easy for me to wait for August/September to see if that happens. But in your case, if you want to stay with OSX and are hampered by your current system, that upgrade won't blow your socks off compared to the fairly robust performance of the current iMac.
In terms of regrets analysis, note that this time next year, the next big improvement to intel chips will make a significant difference in terms of performance for more intensive work for the iMac and macbook pros. That's why I'll hold off till next year for upgrading my macbook pro (cheaper SSDs and huge gain in performance), but consider buying any interim improvement for the iMac that comes out in the next few months. But if there's nothing new by November, I'll wait for the first Haslem imac. What I like about the Pogue revelation is that it appears Apple is still committed to the desktop.