Which part of higher resolution using less space equating to smaller stuff to look at is a "false premise", piot?
I think his point is correct in that the GUI and text still render at the same size. However he completely missed your point, if you already have to zoom or enlarge stuff, bigger than normal, a larger screen is very important. Being that I'm +50 I'm with you on this point.
Even then I'm not convinced that they had the sales to justify the 17" monitor. It isn't desirable for many but often other solutions work out just as well.
But you're right, it's a shitty conclusion. And one were bound to see more evidence of as time progresses.
This discussion could go on for some time. The higher resolution and sharper screen does help even if you have older eyes. I saw this when I moved from iPad 1 to iPad 3. But even here there is a limit to how much a sharp screen helps. Then it becomes pinch to zoom time.
In the end we don't have a clear picture of what lead to the 17" model dying. It could be crappy sales as many suspect or it cold be the lack of retina screens. From our perspective it looks like a bad decision as they appear to be following a trend. Maybe a letter to Cook might clear things up.
I don't think Apple would be so crazy as to force ARM upon us. At least not while there is such a gap in performance and capability. However I could see them offering ARM based hardware where i86 doesn't offer a viable solution.
In this regards I'd love to see Apple TV and a similar platform opened up to apps. At $99 bucks a crack you can't really beat the obvious price and size advantage. Given access to a USB port and drivers it would be a great little embedded platform. There are even numerous apps that don't need the USB port if ones imagination is freed up.
There is no argument that i86 is far more powerful and likely will be for some time. But there is the concept of good enough and in that regards the devices like Apple TV are indeed good enough for many uses.
I'm starting to wonder about that, but obviously this wouldn't happen anytime soon. You'd have a lot of design work to even attempt to construct something of the macbook air class and up from ARM. Right now I'm a little displeased with Apple. I like the use of an IPS display. I pretty much dislike everything else. They're very careful about limiting specs, and I don't compare solely to Windows. I look at what is offered against what is recommended for specific software. It's a little bit annoying when I look at the available machines and don't see anything I want to purchase once the newness factor wears off and I look at the configurations themselves. I'm quite disappointed that there's no real update on the mac pro end. The behavior suggests they don't know what to do with it given the lack of updated cpus (even without thunderbolt given the custom work required there) alongside the lack of cancellation. It's weird leaving a product in stasis that long only to release an update with the same hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Yeah, I think the Mini is great. An IB version probably won't be that impressive in CPU performance but if they get a 640M GT in there, that would be a very nice machine (it can run the DX11 Heaven tessellation test in real-time). Throw in 16GB RAM and a Samsung 830 SSD and it will churn through most tasks quite easily. I'm disappointed it didn't arrive already but it'll likely be next month. They always do the laptops first.
I remembered this, but you weren't expecting NVidia at the time. You were hoping Ivy Bridge graphics would be enough for you to retire your current mini. Also you're right, they always do the laptops first. The rumors regarding now mini or imac updates this year are either crap or poorly interpreted. It could have been no redesigned models morphed into no updates as it filtered through the rumor mill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
We are getting to a point where there's little point in upgrades or self-repair.
The way they did the display is fine as it means a 3rd party repair shop can't stick some cheap panel in your machine. They'd have to get the panel and case from Apple so you know it's genuine.
Soldered RAM is a bit of a nuisance but we are reaching a point where the RAM is enough. 16GB should have been the entry level but the people who need more than 8GB know they need more.
The SSD should be upgradable by 3rd parties just like the Air but you wouldn't necessarily want to. It's best for Apple to pick the best controller and design the drive to work with the OS.
Bus-powered USB 3 hard drives or SSDs are tiny and fine for bulk storage. Flash will keep dropping in price the more mainstream these designs become so they'll get affordable 1TB eventually.
I don't think quality control and reliability are at a point where this makes me comfortable. The batter is glued in. The hard drive is soldered. These are two of the most likely repairs. I'm wondering if they still do battery replacements on these. On the last ones it was $150 or so. It's important as batteries have a finite life, and given the slowing rate of advancements in computers for the masses today, such an expensive purchase should be able to last a while. Dead drive should not mean they basically replace the entire logic board.
The hard drive is not solder the RAM is the. The SSD card can be removed about the only thing that can be. Honestly I have no idea why soldier RAM is such a problem other than if it goes bad blah blah. I mean Newegg sells 8x2 sodimms for a low as 99 and Crucial for about $150ish, Apple for once is not raping people on the price. I guess you could save $200 now but still add it later it were sockets but true pros really don't worry about this 90%+ of the pros I know load the machine up and use it as long as they can until a machine that can make them more money by being faster comes.
Aftermarket will come for the SSD cards in time I hope with lower price but to get by for now I do need the 700 gig setup and yeah it's a bit much but such is life. I make my living with these devices and speed is everything to me. The SSD card is not a moving part so the fail rate should be a lot lower than any physical disk (HD) on the market. Even if there is ware you can replace the card. Also as for battery yes they will replace it, they have a procedure.
This discussion could go on for some time. The higher resolution and sharper screen does help even if you have older eyes. I saw this when I moved from iPad 1 to iPad 3. But even here there is a limit to how much a sharp screen helps. Then it becomes pinch to zoom time.
In the end we don't have a clear picture of what lead to the 17" model dying. It could be crappy sales as many suspect or it cold be the lack of retina screens. From our perspective it looks like a bad decision as they appear to be following a trend. Maybe a letter to Cook might clear things up.
What I'm saying is, with a smaller display we can have less real estate or smaller objects. *One* of these compromises *must* be made and it's the only way to make the change from a 17 inch display.
It's funny, I never thought of my 17 MBP as a desktop replacement. These smaller models, with their need for external displays, are just that.
Between this decision and the decision to let the iMac and Mac Pro languish until 2013, we get a clearer picture of what Apple will look like without the steady hand of Steve Jobs at the tiller. Cook obviously got where he is by telling Jobs what he wanted to hear, and the guy is a tool. Time to unload Apple stock.
There's been a slow migration to our platform from Windows for many years. Let's see how they change their tune when some day the migration goes the other way. The money dwindles, and they see what hindered progress looks like.
This argument comes up a lot about Apple making a certain decision and users migrating away and Apple ending back up in the poor house. The argument was made about the glossy screens, ditching opticals, dropping the Macbook and so on - I've used it for decisions I didn't like. The reality is, Apple is doing better than ever and it's because they base their decisions on what lots of people want to buy. The retina MBP shipping times have shot up very quickly, which suggests it's going to sell extremely well, unlike the 17" version.
There are certainly valid reasons for a 17" laptop, especially a thin, light one but Apple chooses their compromises wisely. Maybe when the prices come down they'll have a reason to bring it back but maybe not.
You were hoping Ivy Bridge graphics would be enough for you to retire your current mini.
I wasn't hoping they'd ditch dedicated GPUs, I would understand if they switched the dedicated GPU for the Ivy Bridge IGP if they bumped up the CPU spec for the same price but I would much prefer the 640M GT or Radeon 7000 series. NVidia preferred.
Cook obviously got where he is by telling Jobs what he wanted to hear, and the guy is a tool.
I think that's unfair, he has managed the operation at Apple extremely well. With Steve Jobs not being there, the staff seems to have lost some motivation and it's understandable that after 15-20 years running the same cycle, some of them are starting to tire of it. It's human nature.
The company has had the biggest disruption since Steve came back to Apple, it'll take time for them to adjust. In no way should every bad decision be pinned on a lack of Steve while ignoring good decisions under the same circumstances. This rubbish about 'Steve would never have ... if he was still alive' needs to stop. It's baseless and it's insensitive to the people still at Apple who have suffered a bigger loss than any of us.
I wasn't hoping they'd ditch dedicated GPUs, I would understand if they switched the dedicated GPU for the Ivy Bridge IGP if they bumped up the CPU spec for the same price but I would much prefer the 640M GT or Radeon 7000 series. NVidia preferred.
I think that's unfair, he has managed the operation at Apple extremely well. With Steve Jobs not being there, the staff seems to have lost some motivation and it's understandable that after 15-20 years running the same cycle, some of them are starting to tire of it. It's human nature.
The company has had the biggest disruption since Steve came back to Apple, it'll take time for them to adjust. In no way should every bad decision be pinned on a lack of Steve while ignoring good decisions under the same circumstances. This rubbish about 'Steve would never have ... if he was still alive' needs to stop. It's baseless and it's insensitive to the people still at Apple who have suffered a bigger loss than any of us.
I remember the posts pretty well. I probably misinterpreted them. Also I agree with you the "what would Steve do" crap is complete junk. It's actually creepy. Do some of these guys really believe no one else played a part in Apple's success over the past decade?
The company has had the biggest disruption since Steve came back to Apple, it'll take time for them to adjust. In no way should every bad decision be pinned on a lack of Steve while ignoring good decisions under the same circumstances. This rubbish about 'Steve would never have ... if he was still alive' needs to stop. It's baseless and it's insensitive to the people still at Apple who have suffered a bigger loss than any of us.
Whatever. Cook is a mediocre CEO and this will become more obvious as Apple makes further blunders. As for me being "insensitive," LOL, I'm sure Mr. Cook's skin is thick enough to take some criticism, and if it isn't, well he'll just have to spend a tiny fraction of his multimillion dollar salary on a psychotherapist. Oh wait, he's got a great health care plane, I'll bet he doesn't even have limits on his number of psychotherapy visits!
Your response is interesting in that it reveals you have doubts about Cook as well. Otherwise you wouldn't have used the "Stop picking on Britney!" defense.
I remember the posts pretty well. I probably misinterpreted them. Also I agree with you the "what would Steve do" crap is complete junk. It's actually creepy. Do some of these guys really believe no one else played a part in Apple's success over the past decade?
No, I believe Jobs wouldn't have let the Mac Pro and iMac languish for another year, and I also believe Cook is a tool and will prove to be a mediocre CEO. Only a terminally stupid Apple fanboy would interpret that opinion as the equivalent of saying "nobody but Jobs can do anything right".
You do what you please, I'll be unloading my Apple stock. And I won't say "I told you so"...much.
No, I believe Jobs wouldn't have let the Mac Pro and iMac languish for another year, and I also believe Cook is a tool and will prove to be a mediocre CEO. Only a terminally stupid Apple fanboy would interpret that opinion as the equivalent of saying "nobody but Jobs can do anything right".
You do what you please, I'll be unloading my Apple stock. And I won't say "I told you so"...much.
You make a lot of silly comments, but my issue was with the attitude in general. I'm not much of a fanboy. I don't own an iphone as I refuse to switch carriers to purchase one. I don't own an ipad as it would collect dust. I don't upgrade to every model Apple releases or drink the Cupertino kool-aid, but I do own a couple macs. You're right that the Mac Pro thing is ridiculous. They were probably debating killing it and put off the R&D (which foxconn could probably handle up to the point of firmware tweaks) for a board update. I figured they'd forgo thunderbolt as it's not integrated within the chipset, but I didn't expect the dog ate my homework bullshit excuse. Tim Cook isn't the one I'm referring to anyway. The company itself is huge and maintains some kind of corporate culture. While a bad CEO can damage that, you need more than just a good CEO to keep it on track. By the way, the facebook integration with mountain lion pisses me off. I'd like the OS to remain as light weight as possible for performance reasons. I wish I could just run Linux for everything.
This really pisses me off! I'm not some damn kid and I don't do kiddy screens. I am a grown-ass man with professional needs and a 13 or 15 inch child's screen is simply out of the question, and I am not about to be tied down to a damn desktop computer...are you serious!?!?
I deeply sympathize with this vision situation and have recommended the use of the external display for this at the desktop. I, too, think the 17 inch size has great merit and would hope to have seen it in the new form factor. Most seem to love 15" but I see it as a kind of "twiner," not really super portable and yet not up to 17 standards to date. I have yet to use the "retina" display, so cannot rate this fully yet.
I see the combination of a MBAir for portability and a large laptop works well, BUT I confess, I am a committed iMac 27" desktop kind of guy with lots of graphic images open and a wonderful screen for showing movies in HD. To raise a different subject, I see the loss of the video drive causes me trouble, since I use it extensively for teaching.
This really pisses me off! I'm not some damn kid and I don't do kiddy screens. I am a grown-ass man with professional needs and a 13 or 15 inch child's screen is simply out of the question, and I am not about to be tied down to a damn desktop computer...are you serious!?!?
For a grown man, you seem to be acting particularly childish and irrational.
This move wouldn't surprise me. Depress me, yes, but not surprise me considering what they did with the Xserve, FCP, anything remotely 'Pro"...
I've lugged around many Macs over the years, but my 17" MacBook Pro has been my favorite. I will not buy a 15" MacBook. I'm not saying this as an act of defiance or because I think Tim Cook is reading this, but because I have no interest in the downgrade. Most likely I will keep my eyes open for a 17" PC laptop that can work as a workable hackintosh. Hopefully one with a good matte screen.
It's not a matter of pixels—it's a matter of real estate, clarity, and ease of use. I'm more productive with my 17" MPB—period. Until someone perfects a real retina display (one that attaches to your retina), the 17" laptop is the best solution for me.
Who would want a 15" MacBook "Pro" anyway? Why not just get an Air? I'd buy a 17" Air, but that won't happen because Apple is convinced that 17" must cost a bazillion dollars and an Air must be cheap.
What Apple should do is make the 17" more enticing. Get rid of the optical drive and trim the cost. Hell, make it a 19". However they seem more likely to trim their lineup to one product then convince the fanboys that it's all for the best. Hey, let's cram more pixels into an iPhone and hook it up to an external monitor so we don't even need a Mac!
+1
I own Air, and I carry where I think carrying around 17" would be a problem. But that situation has yet to come . My 17" is my most favourite among my Mac Pro, Air 11" and MBP 13". I just feel more comfortable and productive working on 17" than any other portable notebooks. Mac Pro is a different story, I definitely sit down on my desk on 27" Apple display when intense work is required. Other than that, 17" is what I use most of the time.
I never thought about buying an iPad as it never really attracted me in terms of my usage. However, I pulled the trigger and bought 3rd generation of iPad on the day it was released as it's a brilliant tablet. But I only used it twice since I bought it and that too just to play games with my kids. I bought tons of apps for iPad just to make it some sort of use and trust me I still haven't used them.
I absolutely have no problem with Apple dropping optical drive, soldered RAMs and proprietary SSD. I can certainly jump to the highest configuration at the time of purchase but I have a real problem with not having audio line in, no anti-glare and no 17" retina. Let's see what they come up with in few years time until then I am happy with my current 17" notebook. But I would hate to see myself going to Windows laptop for that matter.
I totally agree why not just make 17" Air? Besides my graphics and music production, I work on huge Numbers spreadsheets. Restricting to 15" will add up so much more scrolling everywhere. How much zoom out to fit more content on screen regardless of how good is your eye sight.
I know there are lots of people with different tastes, different needs so let's respect each other.
I'm starting to wonder about that, but obviously this wouldn't happen anytime soon. You'd have a lot of design work to even attempt to construct something of the macbook air class and up from ARM.
Apple has ARM right where they want them. There is no sign that they will be able to compete with Intel any time soon. If you look at Ivy Bridge Intel now out performs ARM on a per watt basis.
Right now I'm a little displeased with Apple. I like the use of an IPS display. I pretty much dislike everything else. They're very careful about limiting specs, and I don't compare solely to Windows.
My response to WWDC is highly mixed. I actually like the new laptops, but if you are in the market for a desktop you basically got screwed again. If Apple follows past practices that means another castrated Mini, we already know what happened to the Mac Pro.
I look at what is offered against what is recommended for specific software. It's a little bit annoying when I look at the available machines and don't see anything I want to purchase once the newness factor wears off and I look at the configurations themselves. I'm quite disappointed that there's no real update on the mac pro end. The behavior suggests they don't know what to do with it given the lack of updated cpus (even without thunderbolt given the custom work required there) alongside the lack of cancellation. It's weird leaving a product in stasis that long only to release an update with the same hardware.
After a bit of cooling off I'm really hoping that Apple does have a plan to replace the Mac Pro with something modern. If that machine comes in early 2013 it might change my opinion of Apple and it's attitude towards the desktop. If it is just another Sandy Bridge E machine I will not be happy at all. It isn't that I need a Mac Pro it is just that like you I'm tired of having to buy a laptop to get the right performance mix. It shouldn't be a problem for Apple to deliver a Mini like machine with performance approaching a Mac Pro.
I remembered this, but you weren't expecting NVidia at the time. You were hoping Ivy Bridge graphics would be enough for you to retire your current mini. Also you're right, they always do the laptops first. The rumors regarding now mini or imac updates this year are either crap or poorly interpreted. It could have been no redesigned models morphed into no updates as it filtered through the rumor mill.
I'm not sure what you base that on. If true that the Mini doesn't get updated this year then Apple really has fallen off the deep end relative to desktop users. It would be just another slight against desktop users especially when Ivy Bridge or Trintiy would be ideal in the Mini.
I don't think quality control and reliability are at a point where this makes me comfortable. The batter is glued in. The hard drive is soldered.
The hard drive plugs inform what I can see. The design though doesn't bother me, on average it should lead to far better reliability on average. It is solidly constructed. Sure it sucks if you end up with a machine that fails, but for the rest of the user community they can keep on trucking.
These are two of the most likely repairs. I'm wondering if they still do battery replacements on these. On the last ones it was $150 or so. It's important as batteries have a finite life, and given the slowing rate of advancements in computers for the masses today, such an expensive purchase should be able to last a while. Dead drive should not mean they basically replace the entire logic board.
Well the drive is plugged in so that is good. For the battery they might have to replace the shell depending upon the glue used. Again this isn't good if your battery fails but is good for the users needing rugged. As long as Apple doesn't screw us by saying no battery replacements after 4 years or some such nonsense we should be OK.
Between this decision and the decision to let the iMac and Mac Pro languish until 2013, we get a clearer picture of what Apple will look like without the steady hand of Steve Jobs at the tiller. Cook obviously got where he is by telling Jobs what he wanted to hear, and the guy is a tool. Time to unload Apple stock.
Well that is totally irrational. The issue with the Mac Pro can only be resolved when the new machine comes in 2013. At that time it is either an impressive new platform or bust.
Let me just say I'm shocked at Apples attitude towards the desktop. Maybe it took this years WWDC to cram it in my head, but they are failing on the desktop because of their own thinking about its future.
The Mac Pro is now a special case, because replacement has been announced after a lot of justified noise. Even that announcement was haphazzard And questionable. So more noise was required to get a statement from Apple. This is one sad story to say the least.
However difficult this seemingly was for Apple at least now we have to base our opinions upon what comes to the Pro in six or seven months. This is where I part ways with you and Junkyard Dawg, because we really can't judge this foul up until it completely plays out. It may well be that the new Mac Pro or it's replacement, may be so bleeding edge as to justify ignoring the rush to Sandy Bridge E hardware. It is hard to tell given Apple secrecy but I do know that Intel has a couple of technologies due to debut at the end of the year that could easily change the Mac Pro into a powerhouse machine. I'd actually be pretty surprised if Apple went this route but Intels MIC technology could be compelling in a Mac.
So knowing Apple they could have had a SB-E machine ready to roll but decided to ditch it in favor of soon to be released technology. Well we can hope that the delay is justified. In any event the game plan can only be evaluated six or so months down the road.
You make a lot of silly comments, but my issue was with the attitude in general. I'm not much of a fanboy. I don't own an iphone as I refuse to switch carriers to purchase one. I don't own an ipad as it would collect dust. I don't upgrade to every model Apple releases or drink the Cupertino kool-aid, but I do own a couple macs. You're right that the Mac Pro thing is ridiculous. They were probably debating killing it and put off the R&D (which foxconn could probably handle up to the point of firmware tweaks) for a board update. I figured they'd forgo thunderbolt as it's not integrated within the chipset, but I didn't expect the dog ate my homework bullshit excuse.
I'm not buying this attitude either. We don't know what the new machine will look like so we can only evaluate it when it arrives. Maybe they do have technology coming that justifies the micro update of the Pro. The proble is they still haven't communicated that well.
In any event if this machine is another me too reference machine for Sandy Bridge E then yes it is a BS excuse.
Tim Cook isn't the one I'm referring to anyway. The company itself is huge and maintains some kind of corporate culture. While a bad CEO can damage that, you need more than just a good CEO to keep it on track. By the way, the facebook integration with mountain lion pisses me off. I'd like the OS to remain as light weight as possible for performance reasons. I wish I could just run Linux for everything.
I really don't get your issue with Facebook. I can't see how it could possibly impact performance. There are lots of features I don't use in Mac OS that I'm certain other people use everyday, yet I don't object to those features. For example I can't remember the last time I printed anything. Bluetooth is hardly ever used also. These are just two features of Mac OS I hardly ever use but there are plenty of others.
So take a look at Mac OS closely and just count up the number of features you don't use, it is probably a large handful. Accessibility features probably add more overhead than the Facebook integration and in the end there will probably be fewer Accessibility users than Facebook users. Your objections make about as much sense as the idiots that shun HTML mail because they are stuck in the text only world. For many Facebook just acts as another communications facility.
Let me just say I'm shocked at Apples attitude towards the desktop. Maybe it took this years WWDC to cram it in my head, but they are failing on the desktop because of their own thinking about its future.
The Mac Pro is now a special case, because replacement has been announced after a lot of justified noise. Even that announcement was haphazzard And questionable. So more noise was required to get a statement from Apple. This is one sad story to say the least.
However difficult this seemingly was for Apple at least now we have to base our opinions upon what comes to the Pro in six or seven months. This is where I part ways with you and Junkyard Dawg, because we really can't judge this foul up until it completely plays out. It may well be that the new Mac Pro or it's replacement, may be so bleeding edge as to justify ignoring the rush to Sandy Bridge E hardware. It is hard to tell given Apple secrecy but I do know that Intel has a couple of technologies due to debut at the end of the year that could easily change the Mac Pro into a powerhouse machine. I'd actually be pretty surprised if Apple went this route but Intels MIC technology could be compelling in a
I've made some updates to my existing hardware since I wasn't totally happy with what we got. Generally I view new machines as sunken costs, and there are always gotchas. By the time it's configured, tax, applecare, etc. it's a pretty big purchase. While some of my software is expensive too, I haven't been really adding to it. It's just a matter of structured upgrades. Anyway I've just been a little annoyed with Apple at times, but I think my rig will be fine at this point. The problem is that since they stuck with older hardware, getting a truly worthwhile upgrade would cost more than I want to spend right now compared to parts of similar cost with the new thing (using Intel's and AMD's sites for reference).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
So knowing Apple they could have had a SB-E machine ready to roll but decided to ditch it in favor of soon to be released technology. Well we can hope that the delay is justified. In any event the game plan can only be evaluated six or so months down the road.
I really don't get your issue with Facebook. I can't see how it could possibly impact performance. There are lots of features I don't use in Mac OS that I'm certain other people use everyday, yet I don't object to those features. For example I can't remember the last time I printed anything. Bluetooth is hardly ever used also. These are just two features of Mac OS I hardly ever use but there are plenty of others.
So take a look at Mac OS closely and just count up the number of features you don't use, it is probably a large handful. Accessibility features probably add more overhead than the Facebook integration and in the end there will probably be fewer Accessibility users than Facebook users. Your objections make about as much sense as the idiots that shun HTML mail because they are stuck in the text only world. For many Facebook just acts as another communications facility.
I am hoping they do not make it an obnoxious implementation.
I agree 100%. While a 17" macbook pro may not get enough users to buy-in, a 19 or 21 inch would definitely make the grade as it would become a portable desktop computer for many. It would serve the design and cad world very well to boot. Power users would love it. However, they should make sure to allow it to have 32gb RAM at a minimum, possibly upgradeable to 64gb. Apple, are you listening?
Comments
Even then I'm not convinced that they had the sales to justify the 17" monitor. It isn't desirable for many but often other solutions work out just as well.
This discussion could go on for some time. The higher resolution and sharper screen does help even if you have older eyes. I saw this when I moved from iPad 1 to iPad 3. But even here there is a limit to how much a sharp screen helps. Then it becomes pinch to zoom time.
In the end we don't have a clear picture of what lead to the 17" model dying. It could be crappy sales as many suspect or it cold be the lack of retina screens. From our perspective it looks like a bad decision as they appear to be following a trend. Maybe a letter to Cook might clear things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I don't think Apple would be so crazy as to force ARM upon us. At least not while there is such a gap in performance and capability. However I could see them offering ARM based hardware where i86 doesn't offer a viable solution.
In this regards I'd love to see Apple TV and a similar platform opened up to apps. At $99 bucks a crack you can't really beat the obvious price and size advantage. Given access to a USB port and drivers it would be a great little embedded platform. There are even numerous apps that don't need the USB port if ones imagination is freed up.
There is no argument that i86 is far more powerful and likely will be for some time. But there is the concept of good enough and in that regards the devices like Apple TV are indeed good enough for many uses.
I'm starting to wonder about that, but obviously this wouldn't happen anytime soon. You'd have a lot of design work to even attempt to construct something of the macbook air class and up from ARM. Right now I'm a little displeased with Apple. I like the use of an IPS display. I pretty much dislike everything else. They're very careful about limiting specs, and I don't compare solely to Windows. I look at what is offered against what is recommended for specific software. It's a little bit annoying when I look at the available machines and don't see anything I want to purchase once the newness factor wears off and I look at the configurations themselves. I'm quite disappointed that there's no real update on the mac pro end. The behavior suggests they don't know what to do with it given the lack of updated cpus (even without thunderbolt given the custom work required there) alongside the lack of cancellation. It's weird leaving a product in stasis that long only to release an update with the same hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Yeah, I think the Mini is great. An IB version probably won't be that impressive in CPU performance but if they get a 640M GT in there, that would be a very nice machine (it can run the DX11 Heaven tessellation test in real-time). Throw in 16GB RAM and a Samsung 830 SSD and it will churn through most tasks quite easily. I'm disappointed it didn't arrive already but it'll likely be next month. They always do the laptops first.
I remembered this, but you weren't expecting NVidia at the time. You were hoping Ivy Bridge graphics would be enough for you to retire your current mini. Also you're right, they always do the laptops first. The rumors regarding now mini or imac updates this year are either crap or poorly interpreted. It could have been no redesigned models morphed into no updates as it filtered through the rumor mill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
We are getting to a point where there's little point in upgrades or self-repair.
The way they did the display is fine as it means a 3rd party repair shop can't stick some cheap panel in your machine. They'd have to get the panel and case from Apple so you know it's genuine.
Soldered RAM is a bit of a nuisance but we are reaching a point where the RAM is enough. 16GB should have been the entry level but the people who need more than 8GB know they need more.
The SSD should be upgradable by 3rd parties just like the Air but you wouldn't necessarily want to. It's best for Apple to pick the best controller and design the drive to work with the OS.
Bus-powered USB 3 hard drives or SSDs are tiny and fine for bulk storage. Flash will keep dropping in price the more mainstream these designs become so they'll get affordable 1TB eventually.
I don't think quality control and reliability are at a point where this makes me comfortable. The batter is glued in. The hard drive is soldered. These are two of the most likely repairs. I'm wondering if they still do battery replacements on these. On the last ones it was $150 or so. It's important as batteries have a finite life, and given the slowing rate of advancements in computers for the masses today, such an expensive purchase should be able to last a while. Dead drive should not mean they basically replace the entire logic board.
Aftermarket will come for the SSD cards in time I hope with lower price but to get by for now I do need the 700 gig setup and yeah it's a bit much but such is life. I make my living with these devices and speed is everything to me. The SSD card is not a moving part so the fail rate should be a lot lower than any physical disk (HD) on the market. Even if there is ware you can replace the card. Also as for battery yes they will replace it, they have a procedure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
This discussion could go on for some time. The higher resolution and sharper screen does help even if you have older eyes. I saw this when I moved from iPad 1 to iPad 3. But even here there is a limit to how much a sharp screen helps. Then it becomes pinch to zoom time.
In the end we don't have a clear picture of what lead to the 17" model dying. It could be crappy sales as many suspect or it cold be the lack of retina screens. From our perspective it looks like a bad decision as they appear to be following a trend. Maybe a letter to Cook might clear things up.
What I'm saying is, with a smaller display we can have less real estate or smaller objects. *One* of these compromises *must* be made and it's the only way to make the change from a 17 inch display.
It's funny, I never thought of my 17 MBP as a desktop replacement. These smaller models, with their need for external displays, are just that.
Between this decision and the decision to let the iMac and Mac Pro languish until 2013, we get a clearer picture of what Apple will look like without the steady hand of Steve Jobs at the tiller. Cook obviously got where he is by telling Jobs what he wanted to hear, and the guy is a tool. Time to unload Apple stock.
This argument comes up a lot about Apple making a certain decision and users migrating away and Apple ending back up in the poor house. The argument was made about the glossy screens, ditching opticals, dropping the Macbook and so on - I've used it for decisions I didn't like. The reality is, Apple is doing better than ever and it's because they base their decisions on what lots of people want to buy. The retina MBP shipping times have shot up very quickly, which suggests it's going to sell extremely well, unlike the 17" version.
There are certainly valid reasons for a 17" laptop, especially a thin, light one but Apple chooses their compromises wisely. Maybe when the prices come down they'll have a reason to bring it back but maybe not.
I wasn't hoping they'd ditch dedicated GPUs, I would understand if they switched the dedicated GPU for the Ivy Bridge IGP if they bumped up the CPU spec for the same price but I would much prefer the 640M GT or Radeon 7000 series. NVidia preferred.
I think that's unfair, he has managed the operation at Apple extremely well. With Steve Jobs not being there, the staff seems to have lost some motivation and it's understandable that after 15-20 years running the same cycle, some of them are starting to tire of it. It's human nature.
The company has had the biggest disruption since Steve came back to Apple, it'll take time for them to adjust. In no way should every bad decision be pinned on a lack of Steve while ignoring good decisions under the same circumstances. This rubbish about 'Steve would never have ... if he was still alive' needs to stop. It's baseless and it's insensitive to the people still at Apple who have suffered a bigger loss than any of us.
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Originally Posted by Marvin
I wasn't hoping they'd ditch dedicated GPUs, I would understand if they switched the dedicated GPU for the Ivy Bridge IGP if they bumped up the CPU spec for the same price but I would much prefer the 640M GT or Radeon 7000 series. NVidia preferred.
I think that's unfair, he has managed the operation at Apple extremely well. With Steve Jobs not being there, the staff seems to have lost some motivation and it's understandable that after 15-20 years running the same cycle, some of them are starting to tire of it. It's human nature.
The company has had the biggest disruption since Steve came back to Apple, it'll take time for them to adjust. In no way should every bad decision be pinned on a lack of Steve while ignoring good decisions under the same circumstances. This rubbish about 'Steve would never have ... if he was still alive' needs to stop. It's baseless and it's insensitive to the people still at Apple who have suffered a bigger loss than any of us.
I remember the posts pretty well. I probably misinterpreted them. Also I agree with you the "what would Steve do" crap is complete junk. It's actually creepy. Do some of these guys really believe no one else played a part in Apple's success over the past decade?
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Originally Posted by Marvin
The company has had the biggest disruption since Steve came back to Apple, it'll take time for them to adjust. In no way should every bad decision be pinned on a lack of Steve while ignoring good decisions under the same circumstances. This rubbish about 'Steve would never have ... if he was still alive' needs to stop. It's baseless and it's insensitive to the people still at Apple who have suffered a bigger loss than any of us.
Whatever. Cook is a mediocre CEO and this will become more obvious as Apple makes further blunders. As for me being "insensitive," LOL, I'm sure Mr. Cook's skin is thick enough to take some criticism, and if it isn't, well he'll just have to spend a tiny fraction of his multimillion dollar salary on a psychotherapist. Oh wait, he's got a great health care plane, I'll bet he doesn't even have limits on his number of psychotherapy visits!
Your response is interesting in that it reveals you have doubts about Cook as well. Otherwise you wouldn't have used the "Stop picking on Britney!" defense.
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Originally Posted by hmm
I remember the posts pretty well. I probably misinterpreted them. Also I agree with you the "what would Steve do" crap is complete junk. It's actually creepy. Do some of these guys really believe no one else played a part in Apple's success over the past decade?
No, I believe Jobs wouldn't have let the Mac Pro and iMac languish for another year, and I also believe Cook is a tool and will prove to be a mediocre CEO. Only a terminally stupid Apple fanboy would interpret that opinion as the equivalent of saying "nobody but Jobs can do anything right".
You do what you please, I'll be unloading my Apple stock. And I won't say "I told you so"...much.
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Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
No, I believe Jobs wouldn't have let the Mac Pro and iMac languish for another year, and I also believe Cook is a tool and will prove to be a mediocre CEO. Only a terminally stupid Apple fanboy would interpret that opinion as the equivalent of saying "nobody but Jobs can do anything right".
You do what you please, I'll be unloading my Apple stock. And I won't say "I told you so"...much.
You make a lot of silly comments, but my issue was with the attitude in general. I'm not much of a fanboy. I don't own an iphone as I refuse to switch carriers to purchase one. I don't own an ipad as it would collect dust. I don't upgrade to every model Apple releases or drink the Cupertino kool-aid, but I do own a couple macs. You're right that the Mac Pro thing is ridiculous. They were probably debating killing it and put off the R&D (which foxconn could probably handle up to the point of firmware tweaks) for a board update. I figured they'd forgo thunderbolt as it's not integrated within the chipset, but I didn't expect the dog ate my homework bullshit excuse. Tim Cook isn't the one I'm referring to anyway. The company itself is huge and maintains some kind of corporate culture. While a bad CEO can damage that, you need more than just a good CEO to keep it on track. By the way, the facebook integration with mountain lion pisses me off. I'd like the OS to remain as light weight as possible for performance reasons. I wish I could just run Linux for everything.
You make a compelling argument. When you put it like that, I can accept it.
This really pisses me off! I'm not some damn kid and I don't do kiddy screens. I am a grown-ass man with professional needs and a 13 or 15 inch child's screen is simply out of the question, and I am not about to be tied down to a damn desktop computer...are you serious!?!?
I deeply sympathize with this vision situation and have recommended the use of the external display for this at the desktop. I, too, think the 17 inch size has great merit and would hope to have seen it in the new form factor. Most seem to love 15" but I see it as a kind of "twiner," not really super portable and yet not up to 17 standards to date. I have yet to use the "retina" display, so cannot rate this fully yet.
I see the combination of a MBAir for portability and a large laptop works well, BUT I confess, I am a committed iMac 27" desktop kind of guy with lots of graphic images open and a wonderful screen for showing movies in HD. To raise a different subject, I see the loss of the video drive causes me trouble, since I use it extensively for teaching.
For a grown man, you seem to be acting particularly childish and irrational.
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Originally Posted by strobe
This move wouldn't surprise me. Depress me, yes, but not surprise me considering what they did with the Xserve, FCP, anything remotely 'Pro"...
I've lugged around many Macs over the years, but my 17" MacBook Pro has been my favorite. I will not buy a 15" MacBook. I'm not saying this as an act of defiance or because I think Tim Cook is reading this, but because I have no interest in the downgrade. Most likely I will keep my eyes open for a 17" PC laptop that can work as a workable hackintosh. Hopefully one with a good matte screen.
It's not a matter of pixels—it's a matter of real estate, clarity, and ease of use. I'm more productive with my 17" MPB—period. Until someone perfects a real retina display (one that attaches to your retina), the 17" laptop is the best solution for me.
Who would want a 15" MacBook "Pro" anyway? Why not just get an Air? I'd buy a 17" Air, but that won't happen because Apple is convinced that 17" must cost a bazillion dollars and an Air must be cheap.
What Apple should do is make the 17" more enticing. Get rid of the optical drive and trim the cost. Hell, make it a 19". However they seem more likely to trim their lineup to one product then convince the fanboys that it's all for the best. Hey, let's cram more pixels into an iPhone and hook it up to an external monitor so we don't even need a Mac!
+1
I own Air, and I carry where I think carrying around 17" would be a problem. But that situation has yet to come . My 17" is my most favourite among my Mac Pro, Air 11" and MBP 13". I just feel more comfortable and productive working on 17" than any other portable notebooks. Mac Pro is a different story, I definitely sit down on my desk on 27" Apple display when intense work is required. Other than that, 17" is what I use most of the time.
I never thought about buying an iPad as it never really attracted me in terms of my usage. However, I pulled the trigger and bought 3rd generation of iPad on the day it was released as it's a brilliant tablet. But I only used it twice since I bought it and that too just to play games with my kids. I bought tons of apps for iPad just to make it some sort of use and trust me I still haven't used them.
I absolutely have no problem with Apple dropping optical drive, soldered RAMs and proprietary SSD. I can certainly jump to the highest configuration at the time of purchase but I have a real problem with not having audio line in, no anti-glare and no 17" retina. Let's see what they come up with in few years time until then I am happy with my current 17" notebook. But I would hate to see myself going to Windows laptop for that matter.
I totally agree why not just make 17" Air? Besides my graphics and music production, I work on huge Numbers spreadsheets. Restricting to 15" will add up so much more scrolling everywhere. How much zoom out to fit more content on screen regardless of how good is your eye sight.
I know there are lots of people with different tastes, different needs so let's respect each other.
Well the drive is plugged in so that is good. For the battery they might have to replace the shell depending upon the glue used. Again this isn't good if your battery fails but is good for the users needing rugged. As long as Apple doesn't screw us by saying no battery replacements after 4 years or some such nonsense we should be OK.
Well that is totally irrational. The issue with the Mac Pro can only be resolved when the new machine comes in 2013. At that time it is either an impressive new platform or bust.
The Mac Pro is now a special case, because replacement has been announced after a lot of justified noise. Even that announcement was haphazzard And questionable. So more noise was required to get a statement from Apple. This is one sad story to say the least.
However difficult this seemingly was for Apple at least now we have to base our opinions upon what comes to the Pro in six or seven months. This is where I part ways with you and Junkyard Dawg, because we really can't judge this foul up until it completely plays out. It may well be that the new Mac Pro or it's replacement, may be so bleeding edge as to justify ignoring the rush to Sandy Bridge E hardware. It is hard to tell given Apple secrecy but I do know that Intel has a couple of technologies due to debut at the end of the year that could easily change the Mac Pro into a powerhouse machine. I'd actually be pretty surprised if Apple went this route but Intels MIC technology could be compelling in a Mac.
So knowing Apple they could have had a SB-E machine ready to roll but decided to ditch it in favor of soon to be released technology. Well we can hope that the delay is justified. In any event the game plan can only be evaluated six or so months down the road.
I'm not buying this attitude either. We don't know what the new machine will look like so we can only evaluate it when it arrives. Maybe they do have technology coming that justifies the micro update of the Pro. The proble is they still haven't communicated that well.
In any event if this machine is another me too reference machine for Sandy Bridge E then yes it is a BS excuse.
I really don't get your issue with Facebook. I can't see how it could possibly impact performance. There are lots of features I don't use in Mac OS that I'm certain other people use everyday, yet I don't object to those features. For example I can't remember the last time I printed anything. Bluetooth is hardly ever used also. These are just two features of Mac OS I hardly ever use but there are plenty of others.
So take a look at Mac OS closely and just count up the number of features you don't use, it is probably a large handful. Accessibility features probably add more overhead than the Facebook integration and in the end there will probably be fewer Accessibility users than Facebook users. Your objections make about as much sense as the idiots that shun HTML mail because they are stuck in the text only world. For many Facebook just acts as another communications facility.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
Let me just say I'm shocked at Apples attitude towards the desktop. Maybe it took this years WWDC to cram it in my head, but they are failing on the desktop because of their own thinking about its future.
The Mac Pro is now a special case, because replacement has been announced after a lot of justified noise. Even that announcement was haphazzard And questionable. So more noise was required to get a statement from Apple. This is one sad story to say the least.
However difficult this seemingly was for Apple at least now we have to base our opinions upon what comes to the Pro in six or seven months. This is where I part ways with you and Junkyard Dawg, because we really can't judge this foul up until it completely plays out. It may well be that the new Mac Pro or it's replacement, may be so bleeding edge as to justify ignoring the rush to Sandy Bridge E hardware. It is hard to tell given Apple secrecy but I do know that Intel has a couple of technologies due to debut at the end of the year that could easily change the Mac Pro into a powerhouse machine. I'd actually be pretty surprised if Apple went this route but Intels MIC technology could be compelling in a
I've made some updates to my existing hardware since I wasn't totally happy with what we got. Generally I view new machines as sunken costs, and there are always gotchas. By the time it's configured, tax, applecare, etc. it's a pretty big purchase. While some of my software is expensive too, I haven't been really adding to it. It's just a matter of structured upgrades. Anyway I've just been a little annoyed with Apple at times, but I think my rig will be fine at this point. The problem is that since they stuck with older hardware, getting a truly worthwhile upgrade would cost more than I want to spend right now compared to parts of similar cost with the new thing (using Intel's and AMD's sites for reference).
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Originally Posted by wizard69
So knowing Apple they could have had a SB-E machine ready to roll but decided to ditch it in favor of soon to be released technology. Well we can hope that the delay is justified. In any event the game plan can only be evaluated six or so months down the road.
I really don't get your issue with Facebook. I can't see how it could possibly impact performance. There are lots of features I don't use in Mac OS that I'm certain other people use everyday, yet I don't object to those features. For example I can't remember the last time I printed anything. Bluetooth is hardly ever used also. These are just two features of Mac OS I hardly ever use but there are plenty of others.
So take a look at Mac OS closely and just count up the number of features you don't use, it is probably a large handful. Accessibility features probably add more overhead than the Facebook integration and in the end there will probably be fewer Accessibility users than Facebook users. Your objections make about as much sense as the idiots that shun HTML mail because they are stuck in the text only world. For many Facebook just acts as another communications facility.
I am hoping they do not make it an obnoxious implementation.
I agree 100%. While a 17" macbook pro may not get enough users to buy-in, a 19 or 21 inch would definitely make the grade as it would become a portable desktop computer for many. It would serve the design and cad world very well to boot. Power users would love it. However, they should make sure to allow it to have 32gb RAM at a minimum, possibly upgradeable to 64gb. Apple, are you listening?