You've chosen a far narrower definition of 'professional' than is accepted by dictionaries, hence my request for further explanation. Your posts have shown that you're part of that very small fringe group unwilling to make any changes whatsoever to your mindset.
There is nothing narrow about his definition, only his mindset. What he's describing is an elitist viewpoint not a technical one.
Ok you lured me in , but I don't believe my definition is narrower. I am a professional. I expect a Professional Product to meet the needs of professionals. It is that simple. My professional needs may be on the "fringe", but that is just an opinion too -- are you sure. Lots of people didn't think going to Intel processors was a good idea either -- I did. It opened opportunities -- not closed them. But, I could be wrong too. But I think I speak for many hard core computing professional -- Just my opinion.
Reply to post 99 please. Tell me what are the advantages, from a professional standpoint, to upgradability. I give an argument there demonstrating that no matter who you are, there is no advantage to upgradable designs in the sense you seem to be employing the term. Try and refute it, with argument and reason, if you can. Don't fling cheap talking points and hyperbole. If your intent is to troll, better not reply at all.
My bet is you'll now turn this into a money issue, not a design one. "Apple's parts are too expensive" wah wah wah. But note that has nothing to do whatsoever with professional issues.
You've chosen a far narrower definition of 'professional' than is accepted by dictionaries, hence my request for further explanation. Your posts have shown that you're part of that very small fringe group unwilling to make any changes whatsoever to your mindset.
Regardless of what definition he chooses, I don't see anything in the definition you provided that says a professional needs onboard Ethernet or discrete graphics or 17" screen, anyway.
I'm glad Apple did what they did - give us a choice between two machines that both appear to be good values. I'd love to get one of the retina models for the screen and size, but I'm a bit put off by the lack of upgradability - 256 GB isn't sufficient for me (and I'll be in Afghanistan for the next year, so cloud solutions won't work). On the other hand, the pricing doesn't seem outrageous given the screen and SSD.
For those people who need more storage and prefer more expandability, the non-retina model is clearly better. For those who don't need extensive storage and don't mind the added cost, I think it is hard to argue with the retina model.
I also think the retina model shows how the Air and 13" MBP are headed - the 13" MBP will continue to be ultimately faster (albeit not by much!), and continue to offer more ports and flexibility. I do think it's unfortunate Apple is moving to more closed systems, but all I can do is to vote with my wallet and buy one of the systems that is upgradable (if that continues to be a sticking point - it might not be, depending on the storage options).
... the MacBook Pro was originally touted as an accessible, repairable machine — at Macworld in 2009, Steve Jobs said, “Our pro customers want accessibility: [...] to add memory, to add cards, to add drives.”
Let those who want a small thin "unrepairable" consumer oriented device have the iPads, MBAs or the MBs -- GIVE US WHO NEED IT a workstation quality portable device that is repairable and expandable.... There are many more of these site I can quote if you like. Not that I would ever compare my self to Christ, but "let he who has ears listen" (I'm sure I'll get flamed for that quote too).
Ok you lured me in , but I don't believe my definition is narrower. I am a professional. I expect a Professional Product to meet the needs of professionals. It is that simple. My professional needs may be on the "fringe", but that is just an opinion too -- are you sure. Lots of people didn't think going to Intel processors was a good idea either -- I did. It opened opportunities -- not closed them. But, I could be wrong too. But I think I speak for many hard core computing professional -- Just my opinion.
I'm a professional too. The RMBP meets my needs. What now?
Hope this helps those anxious few get an idea of how long it may be taking. I ordered a Retina 2.3Ghz 250GB HD, 16GB RAM within an hour and a half of the Apple store coming back online last Monday. All times are Pacific.
Select time zone:
Pacific
To display the shipment travel activity in local time of the scan, please select "Local Scan Time" time zone option.
Oh yeah, and forgot to mention that I asked for 2-3 days expedited shipping and Apple's estimated delivery date was originally June 21-25, and Fedex's estimated delivery date (once they picked it up) was listed as June 20 by 12pm. I also had mine shipped to a business address to get it delivered more towards the beginning of the day as opposed to the end.
I also ordered an external usb DVD drive as well as the magsafe to magsafe 2 converter and they did not seem to affect my delivery at all. In fact I received those 2 items last week.
Just wanted to clear a few things up regarding the review I posted.
First, I will tell you that I am a huge Apple fan so my negative review has nothing to do with liking or disliking Apple as a whole.
I actually went to the local retail store immediately after the WWDC keynote to see if they had the Retina MacBook Pro available for sale yet. I had been waiting for months to buy a new MacBook and wanted to get it ASAP. Monday afternoon they told me that they had not yet received any. I called several other Apple Stores within a few hours' drive and they all had the same story. My local store suggested that I try again on Tuesday.
Tuesday morning I was at the Apple Store right at opening as I wanted to make sure I got the system even if they only have a few to sell. I figured if I called before I went over they may have already sold out of whatever they had. Again I was told that they didn't have any and I should try back later in the week.
Wednesday morning I once again was at the store for the opening. As soon as I walked in and asked about the Retina MacBook Pro I was told that they had received only two units, both the higher end 2.6GHz/512GB model and that another person who was in the store early for a training class had actually already bought one of the two. I immediately bought the other one.
The only reason I mention the above is to show that I didn't just look at one in the store or borrow a friend's so that I could write a negative review. I had intended for this to be my great new computer and ended up being disappointed.
I won't rehash my whole review here, but I'll try to give you a little more insight as to why I don't like the new Retina model.
1. A lot of people have mentioned that my comparison between the Retina and the non-Retina model is not fair because you get the SSD with the Retina model and adding the SSD to the non-Retina model makes it even more expensive than the Retina one. This is true. No argument there from me. My thing is that some people (like myself) may not really care about the SSD and wouldn't normally spend the money to upgrade the non-Retina model with an SSD. My issue with the new system is that Apple forces you to pay the extra money for the SSD even if you don't want it. Obviously this is due to the slimness of the system so I can't fault them for that, but for me it is not worth an extra $450 just to have the SSD when on the non-Retina model you get 50% more storage space with the 750GB 7200RPM HDD. I'd rather have more storage and $450 in my pocket than less storage and the SSD. That's just me though. If you really need the extra speed from the SSD then it might work out different for you. To me it's not worth it when combined with my next point.
2. I'm not impressed with the screen. If I was in love with the screen then maybe the combination of the Retina screen and the SSD would seem like a good deal to me for $450, but since I don't like the screen at all it kind of throws the whole thing off. I would actually prefer if I could get the "Retina" model without the Retina display. Yes, you can adjust the desktop space to be the same as 1680x1050, or even up to 1920x1200, but if you do that you are defeating the purpose of having the Retina display. The Retina display only works in "Retina mode" at 1440x900. I'd rather have 1680x1050 anti-glare than 1440x900 Retina glossy.
3. With the above two points in mind (forced to buy SSD, and rather having 1680x1050 anti-glare screen) the loss of the ports and other expansion options didn't go over too well with me. For one pound more and $450 less I get a screen that I like better, more storage (granted it isn't nearly as fast as the SSD), Ethernet port, Firewire port, and an optical drive that I can either use as is, or I can replace it with a second hard drive (maybe even an SSD) if I want to in the future. I can also easily change out the drive and add more RAM without having to spend the money right now on the $200 16GB upgrade from Apple.
4. I use the Adobe CS5 suite. Now that CS6 is out you can be almost sure that Adobe will not release a "Retina" patch for the older CS5 software. So for me that means either shelling out hundreds of dollars to upgrade to CS6, just so I can take advantage of the Retina display, or just running the system in the non-Retina 1680x1050 mode or 1920x1200 mode. I'd rather keep my CS5 for the time being and buy the non-Retina model that gives me 1680x1050 that can work with my existing software. This of course isn't Apple's fault, but I suspect that many people will be in this same situation as Adobe upgrades are expensive to keep up with and lots of people are running older versions.
Hopefully this helps you understand my reasoning for not liking the Retina model. If I thought it was great and worth the money I would have kept it, so all I can leave you with is that I bought it, used it for several days, and ended up returning it and buying the 15" non-Retina model with the upgraded hi-res anti-glare screen and upgraded 750GB 7200RPM hard drive. Your mileage may vary but I stand by my review.
Hardly. Proliferating the idea that computers are "disposable items" any more than they had already been due to soldered RAM is ridiculous, hence FUD.
Well, that is certainly your opinion, but labeling anything that deviates from your opinion "FUD" is not. It's just childish name calling.
If the RAM is soldered in, the the batteries are glued in, and the display is bonded in, then there has been a definite move away from repairability, upgradeability, long product life, recyclability, and ease of disposal. That isn't FUD, it's a simple FACT of design, usability, and engineering.
Open your mind to consider ideas different from your own.
[quote name="Shadowbuster" url="/t/150729/first-look-apples-next-gen-macbook-pro-with-15-retina-display/80#post_2129512"]First, I will tell you that I am a huge Apple fan so my negative review has nothing to do with liking or disliking Apple as a whole.[/QUOTE]
As an aside, not related to anything, why is it trolls that always feel they have to start every post with "I'm an Apple fan, but…"?
[QUOTE]My issue with the new system is that Apple forces you to pay the extra money for the SSD even if you don't want it.[/QUOTE]
You're certain of this?
[QUOTE]…the loss of the ports and other expansion options didn't go over too well with me.[/QUOTE]
Nor did they in 1997 with some iMac users.
[QUOTE]…you can be almost sure that Adobe will not release a "Retina" patch for the older CS5 software.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that the truth… :broken_grumble_emoticon.gif:
I'm still sort of confused why you haven't (or maybe you have) just returned the computer since you don't like the screen, and since that's the entire point of the device.
I'm still sort of confused why you haven't (or maybe you have) just returned the computer since you don't like the screen, and since that's the entire point of the device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowbuster
If I thought it was great and worth the money I would have kept it, so all I can leave you with is that I bought it, used it for several days, and ended up returning it and buying the 15" non-Retina model with the upgraded hi-res anti-glare screen and upgraded 750GB 7200RPM hard drive.
I'm a professional too. The RMBP meets my needs. What now?
I am glad it does for you! As for now what do you have selective sight, did you read my previous post?
Quote:
... the MacBook Pro was originally touted as an accessible, repairable machine — at Macworld in 2009, Steve Jobs said, “Our pro customers want accessibility: [...] to add memory, to add cards, to add drives.”
Let those who want a small thin "unrepairable" consumer oriented device have the iPads, MBAs or the MBs -- GIVE US WHO NEED IT a workstation quality portable device that is repairable and expandable.... There are many more of these site I can quote if you like. Not that I would ever compare my self to Christ, but "let he who has ears listen" (I'm sure I'll get flamed for that quote too).
Just wanted to clear a few things up regarding the review I posted.
First, I will tell you that I am a huge Apple fan so my negative review has nothing to do with liking or disliking Apple as a whole.
I actually went to the local retail store immediately after the WWDC keynote to see if they had the Retina MacBook Pro available for sale yet. I had been waiting for months to buy a new MacBook and wanted to get it ASAP. Monday afternoon they told me that they had not yet received any. I called several other Apple Stores within a few hours' drive and they all had the same story. My local store suggested that I try again on Tuesday.
Tuesday morning I was at the Apple Store right at opening as I wanted to make sure I got the system even if they only have a few to sell. I figured if I called before I went over they may have already sold out of whatever they had. Again I was told that they didn't have any and I should try back later in the week.
Wednesday morning I once again was at the store for the opening. As soon as I walked in and asked about the Retina MacBook Pro I was told that they had received only two units, both the higher end 2.6GHz/512GB model and that another person who was in the store early for a training class had actually already bought one of the two. I immediately bought the other one.
The only reason I mention the above is to show that I didn't just look at one in the store or borrow a friend's so that I could write a negative review. I had intended for this to be my great new computer and ended up being disappointed.
I won't rehash my whole review here, but I'll try to give you a little more insight as to why I don't like the new Retina model.
1. A lot of people have mentioned that my comparison between the Retina and the non-Retina model is not fair because you get the SSD with the Retina model and adding the SSD to the non-Retina model makes it even more expensive than the Retina one. This is true. No argument there from me. My thing is that some people (like myself) may not really care about the SSD and wouldn't normally spend the money to upgrade the non-Retina model with an SSD. My issue with the new system is that Apple forces you to pay the extra money for the SSD even if you don't want it. Obviously this is due to the slimness of the system so I can't fault them for that, but for me it is not worth an extra $450 just to have the SSD when on the non-Retina model you get 50% more storage space with the 750GB 7200RPM HDD. I'd rather have more storage and $450 in my pocket than less storage and the SSD. That's just me though. If you really need the extra speed from the SSD then it might work out different for you. To me it's not worth it when combined with my next point.
2. I'm not impressed with the screen. If I was in love with the screen then maybe the combination of the Retina screen and the SSD would seem like a good deal to me for $450, but since I don't like the screen at all it kind of throws the whole thing off. I would actually prefer if I could get the "Retina" model without the Retina display. Yes, you can adjust the desktop space to be the same as 1680x1050, or even up to 1920x1200, but if you do that you are defeating the purpose of having the Retina display. The Retina display only works in "Retina mode" at 1440x900. I'd rather have 1680x1050 anti-glare than 1440x900 Retina glossy.
3. With the above two points in mind (forced to buy SSD, and rather having 1680x1050 anti-glare screen) the loss of the ports and other expansion options didn't go over too well with me. For one pound more and $450 less I get a screen that I like better, more storage (granted it isn't nearly as fast as the SSD), Ethernet port, Firewire port, and an optical drive that I can either use as is, or I can replace it with a second hard drive (maybe even an SSD) if I want to in the future. I can also easily change out the drive and add more RAM without having to spend the money right now on the $200 16GB upgrade from Apple.
4. I use the Adobe CS5 suite. Now that CS6 is out you can be almost sure that Adobe will not release a "Retina" patch for the older CS5 software. So for me that means either shelling out hundreds of dollars to upgrade to CS6, just so I can take advantage of the Retina display, or just running the system in the non-Retina 1680x1050 mode or 1920x1200 mode. I'd rather keep my CS5 for the time being and buy the non-Retina model that gives me 1680x1050 that can work with my existing software. This of course isn't Apple's fault, but I suspect that many people will be in this same situation as Adobe upgrades are expensive to keep up with and lots of people are running older versions.
Hopefully this helps you understand my reasoning for not liking the Retina model. If I thought it was great and worth the money I would have kept it, so all I can leave you with is that I bought it, used it for several days, and ended up returning it and buying the 15" non-Retina model with the upgraded hi-res anti-glare screen and upgraded 750GB 7200RPM hard drive. Your mileage may vary but I stand by my review.
Cool. There's a 15 day return policy. Return your Retina MBP and buy one without retina. And send me half of the savings for offering you a solution.
Sure I can read a 5 point font, but can I get all of the graphic displays I need up and large enough to see from 3 foot away.
...
Sure if you do digital data collection from analog devices
I used do this and frankly if you need the 17" so you can see from 3 feet away you're either a) doing it wrong or b) more blind than I am and that's saying something. We pull data from sensors and plot them as well display raw data points.
For the record the PPI for a 17" 1920x1200 MBP is 132 PPI vs 128 PPI for the 1680x1050 15" MBP. Meaning the text is smaller on the 17" MBP than the 15" MBP at the same text size. Yes you can fit another few rows of data or a thin strip chart in the difference but it's a relatively stupid use case given most of the time you're more than normal distance from your laptop you're likely at a crappy angle, on the wrong side entirely, blocked by some gear, underneath some equipment or washed out by sunlight anyway. Been there, done that. If it's that critical you do 2 people and park one at the damn laptop or bring a longer cable set so you can park the laptop where you need to be.
These days if I have to do this again I'd rather have an ipad right next to me with the data I want on it via wifi rather than hope I can see the stupid laptop screen from wherever I happen to be. I'm only willing to lug along a 17" laptop these days if it's an uber desktop replacement. If it's going to be heavy and annoying anyway it might as well be a Dell or HP with a top end CPU/GPU combo. Fortunately we got young guys to do this and it ain't my (back) problem.
nht: I used do this and frankly if you need the 17" so you can see from 3 feet away you're either a) doing it wrong or b) more blind than I am and that's saying something. We pull data from sensors and plot them as well display raw data points.
You know, I don't know how you can say that you have done what I do! You know nothing about what I do. I only said what I said to see what detail I needed to provide.
When you DID this was it real time, and did you have to react in near realtime, or not realtime at all? What sort of "dashboard" did you use to display the information. Did your software have the ability to rescale to the dimensions you want without pixelation (except in extreme cases). Could you change the types of graphs and graphics (with text or not) you wanted to use.
It is a matter of screen real estate. What I can tell you is that on a 1600X1200 15" screen was too small for my liking -- I much prefer the 17" display be it a MacBook Pro, Dell, or whatever. If it is not a problem for you, fine -- use a 15" display, but don't make assumptions about what you know nothing about -- which is the details about the work I do. So here are at least some of the details I would have provided:
It is not a matter of resolution -- 17" 1920x1200 works great for me regardless of how the pixels per inch figure out. The resolution of the display is not that important and has never been a problem. I prefer to not have overlapping windows so I don't have to keep moving things to be able to see what I want to see at any given time. The more I can see -- even if it only on more line, the easier my job becomes Screen layout is paramount for my workflow. Looking for anomalies and "red" flags is what is important and being able to react quickly. If I need to see greater detail I can zoom in on what I want to see at that time or later. Others I know-- that do what I do -- agree with this.
You are welcome to your opinion, but don't judge what you don't understand. Having a portable computer is important, but the MacBook Pro 17" I have is not a problem to "lug" IMHO. The number of devices I have to interface with would totally overwhelm an iPad -- even if the caliber of interface I need is available for USB -- the data loss would make my efforts worthless. Having a portable computer is important. I've never had a problem being blocked by gear, but I do have to keep and eye on other things. Sunlight is definitely not a problem. And there is never 2 people involved in the monitoring -- but there might be in the analysis.
Moreover, that is a minor complaint compared to the other problems I have with the new Retina Display MacBook Pro and the direction Apple seems to be moving in. Please see: post #117
If you want to focus on one of my comments -- out of context, then flame away, flame away.
nht: I used do this and frankly if you need the 17" so you can see from 3 feet away you're either a) doing it wrong or b) more blind than I am and that's saying something. We pull data from sensors and plot them as well display raw data points.
You know, I don't know how you can say that you have done what I do! You know nothing about what I do. I only said what I said to see what detail I needed to provide.
When you DID this was it real time, and did you have to react in near realtime, or not realtime at all? What sort of "dashboard" did you use to display the information. Did your software have the ability to rescale to the dimensions you want without pixelation (except in extreme cases). Could you change the types of graphs and graphics (with text or not) you wanted to use.
It is a matter of screen real estate. What I can tell you is that on a 1600X1200 15" screen was too small for my liking -- I much prefer the 17" display be it a MacBook Pro, Dell, or whatever. If it is not a problem for you, fine -- use a 15" display, but don't make assumptions about what you know nothing about -- which is the details about the work I do. So here are at least some of the details I would have provided:
It is not a matter of resolution -- 17" 1920x1200 works great for me regardless of how the pixels per inch figure out. The resolution of the display is not that important and has never been a problem. I prefer to not have overlapping windows so I don't have to keep moving things to be able to see what I want to see at any given time. The more I can see -- even if it only on more line, the easier my job becomes Screen layout is paramount for my workflow. Looking for anomalies and "red" flags is what is important and being able to react quickly. If I need to see greater detail I can zoom in on what I want to see at that time or later. Others I know-- that do what I do -- agree with this.
You are welcome to your opinion, but don't judge what you don't understand. Having a portable computer is important, but the MacBook Pro 17" I have is not a problem to "lug" IMHO. The number of devices I have to interface with would totally overwhelm an iPad -- even if the caliber of interface I need is available for USB -- the data loss would make my efforts worthless. Having a portable computer is important. I've never had a problem being blocked by gear, but I do have to keep and eye on other things. Sunlight is definitely not a problem. And there are never 2 people involved in the monitoring -- but there might be in the analysis.
Moreover, that is a minor complaint compared to the other problems I have with the new Retina Display MacBook Pro and the direction Apple seems to be moving in. Please see: post #117
If you want to focus on one of my comments -- out of context, then flame away, flame away.
Did you buy this to prove your previous impression that the new Retina model is a bad idea? That's the vibe I'm getting here, assuming you really did buy it.
Given all that you wanted built-in (Ethernet, optical drive, affordable big storage, upgradability etc.), it sounds like you could have saved your time and bought the refreshed non-Retina model in the first place.
Comments
There is nothing narrow about his definition, only his mindset. What he's describing is an elitist viewpoint not a technical one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mess
Ok you lured me in
Reply to post 99 please. Tell me what are the advantages, from a professional standpoint, to upgradability. I give an argument there demonstrating that no matter who you are, there is no advantage to upgradable designs in the sense you seem to be employing the term. Try and refute it, with argument and reason, if you can. Don't fling cheap talking points and hyperbole. If your intent is to troll, better not reply at all.
My bet is you'll now turn this into a money issue, not a design one. "Apple's parts are too expensive" wah wah wah. But note that has nothing to do whatsoever with professional issues.
Regardless of what definition he chooses, I don't see anything in the definition you provided that says a professional needs onboard Ethernet or discrete graphics or 17" screen, anyway.
I'm glad Apple did what they did - give us a choice between two machines that both appear to be good values. I'd love to get one of the retina models for the screen and size, but I'm a bit put off by the lack of upgradability - 256 GB isn't sufficient for me (and I'll be in Afghanistan for the next year, so cloud solutions won't work). On the other hand, the pricing doesn't seem outrageous given the screen and SSD.
For those people who need more storage and prefer more expandability, the non-retina model is clearly better. For those who don't need extensive storage and don't mind the added cost, I think it is hard to argue with the retina model.
I also think the retina model shows how the Air and 13" MBP are headed - the 13" MBP will continue to be ultimately faster (albeit not by much!), and continue to offer more ports and flexibility. I do think it's unfortunate Apple is moving to more closed systems, but all I can do is to vote with my wallet and buy one of the systems that is upgradable (if that continues to be a sticking point - it might not be, depending on the storage options).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mess
I've never known a laptop to be able to upgrade the CPU of GPU -- I don't understand your point there.
Judging from your posts, there's lots of things you don't understand. But, let me enlighten you at least on these two points:
PowerBook 500 series
PowerBook 1400 series
Mobile PCI Expresss Module (MXM) standard
.tsooJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyorpb
Judging from your posts, there's lots of things you don't understand. But, let me enlighten you at least on these two points:
PowerBook 500 series
PowerBook 1400 series
Mobile PCI Expresss Module (MXM) standard
.tsooJ
I stand corrected
To all others I quote:
Quote:
... the MacBook Pro was originally touted as an accessible, repairable machine — at Macworld in 2009, Steve Jobs said, “Our pro customers want accessibility: [...] to add memory, to add cards, to add drives.”
from : http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/opinion-apple-retina-displa/
Let those who want a small thin "unrepairable" consumer oriented device have the iPads, MBAs or the MBs -- GIVE US WHO NEED IT a workstation quality portable device that is repairable and expandable.... There are many more of these site I can quote if you like. Not that I would ever compare my self to Christ, but "let he who has ears listen" (I'm sure I'll get flamed for that quote too).
I'm a professional too. The RMBP meets my needs. What now?
Hope this helps those anxious few get an idea of how long it may be taking. I ordered a Retina 2.3Ghz 250GB HD, 16GB RAM within an hour and a half of the Apple store coming back online last Monday. All times are Pacific.
Select time zone:
Pacific
To display the shipment travel activity in local time of the scan, please select "Local Scan Time" time zone option.
Date/Time
Activity
Location
Details
Jun 18, 2012 7:02 AM
On FedEx vehicle for delivery
SAN JOSE, CA
Jun 18, 2012 6:41 AM
At local FedEx facility
SAN JOSE, CA
Jun 18, 2012 4:00 AM
Departed FedEx location
OAKLAND, CA
Jun 17, 2012 7:13 PM
Arrived at FedEx location
OAKLAND, CA
Jun 17, 2012 6:25 PM
In transit
SAN JOSE, CA
Jun 17, 2012 1:23 PM
Departed FedEx location
MEMPHIS, TN
Jun 17, 2012 7:57 AM
International shipment release - Import
MEMPHIS, TN
Jun 16, 2012 9:14 PM
Arrived at FedEx location
MEMPHIS, TN
Jun 16, 2012 7:38 AM
In transit
SHANGHAI CN
Jun 16, 2012 7:25 AM
International shipment release - Import
SHANGHAI CN
Jun 16, 2012 12:08 AM
Left FedEx origin facility
SHANGHAI CN
Jun 15, 2012 8:40 PM
Shipment information sent to FedEx
Jun 15, 2012 7:08 PM
Picked up
SHANGHAI CN
Oh yeah, and forgot to mention that I asked for 2-3 days expedited shipping and Apple's estimated delivery date was originally June 21-25, and Fedex's estimated delivery date (once they picked it up) was listed as June 20 by 12pm. I also had mine shipped to a business address to get it delivered more towards the beginning of the day as opposed to the end.
I also ordered an external usb DVD drive as well as the magsafe to magsafe 2 converter and they did not seem to affect my delivery at all. In fact I received those 2 items last week.
Just wanted to clear a few things up regarding the review I posted.
First, I will tell you that I am a huge Apple fan so my negative review has nothing to do with liking or disliking Apple as a whole.
I actually went to the local retail store immediately after the WWDC keynote to see if they had the Retina MacBook Pro available for sale yet. I had been waiting for months to buy a new MacBook and wanted to get it ASAP. Monday afternoon they told me that they had not yet received any. I called several other Apple Stores within a few hours' drive and they all had the same story. My local store suggested that I try again on Tuesday.
Tuesday morning I was at the Apple Store right at opening as I wanted to make sure I got the system even if they only have a few to sell. I figured if I called before I went over they may have already sold out of whatever they had. Again I was told that they didn't have any and I should try back later in the week.
Wednesday morning I once again was at the store for the opening. As soon as I walked in and asked about the Retina MacBook Pro I was told that they had received only two units, both the higher end 2.6GHz/512GB model and that another person who was in the store early for a training class had actually already bought one of the two. I immediately bought the other one.
The only reason I mention the above is to show that I didn't just look at one in the store or borrow a friend's so that I could write a negative review. I had intended for this to be my great new computer and ended up being disappointed.
I won't rehash my whole review here, but I'll try to give you a little more insight as to why I don't like the new Retina model.
1. A lot of people have mentioned that my comparison between the Retina and the non-Retina model is not fair because you get the SSD with the Retina model and adding the SSD to the non-Retina model makes it even more expensive than the Retina one. This is true. No argument there from me. My thing is that some people (like myself) may not really care about the SSD and wouldn't normally spend the money to upgrade the non-Retina model with an SSD. My issue with the new system is that Apple forces you to pay the extra money for the SSD even if you don't want it. Obviously this is due to the slimness of the system so I can't fault them for that, but for me it is not worth an extra $450 just to have the SSD when on the non-Retina model you get 50% more storage space with the 750GB 7200RPM HDD. I'd rather have more storage and $450 in my pocket than less storage and the SSD. That's just me though. If you really need the extra speed from the SSD then it might work out different for you. To me it's not worth it when combined with my next point.
2. I'm not impressed with the screen. If I was in love with the screen then maybe the combination of the Retina screen and the SSD would seem like a good deal to me for $450, but since I don't like the screen at all it kind of throws the whole thing off. I would actually prefer if I could get the "Retina" model without the Retina display. Yes, you can adjust the desktop space to be the same as 1680x1050, or even up to 1920x1200, but if you do that you are defeating the purpose of having the Retina display. The Retina display only works in "Retina mode" at 1440x900. I'd rather have 1680x1050 anti-glare than 1440x900 Retina glossy.
3. With the above two points in mind (forced to buy SSD, and rather having 1680x1050 anti-glare screen) the loss of the ports and other expansion options didn't go over too well with me. For one pound more and $450 less I get a screen that I like better, more storage (granted it isn't nearly as fast as the SSD), Ethernet port, Firewire port, and an optical drive that I can either use as is, or I can replace it with a second hard drive (maybe even an SSD) if I want to in the future. I can also easily change out the drive and add more RAM without having to spend the money right now on the $200 16GB upgrade from Apple.
4. I use the Adobe CS5 suite. Now that CS6 is out you can be almost sure that Adobe will not release a "Retina" patch for the older CS5 software. So for me that means either shelling out hundreds of dollars to upgrade to CS6, just so I can take advantage of the Retina display, or just running the system in the non-Retina 1680x1050 mode or 1920x1200 mode. I'd rather keep my CS5 for the time being and buy the non-Retina model that gives me 1680x1050 that can work with my existing software. This of course isn't Apple's fault, but I suspect that many people will be in this same situation as Adobe upgrades are expensive to keep up with and lots of people are running older versions.
Hopefully this helps you understand my reasoning for not liking the Retina model. If I thought it was great and worth the money I would have kept it, so all I can leave you with is that I bought it, used it for several days, and ended up returning it and buying the 15" non-Retina model with the upgraded hi-res anti-glare screen and upgraded 750GB 7200RPM hard drive. Your mileage may vary but I stand by my review.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Hardly. Proliferating the idea that computers are "disposable items" any more than they had already been due to soldered RAM is ridiculous, hence FUD.
Well, that is certainly your opinion, but labeling anything that deviates from your opinion "FUD" is not. It's just childish name calling.
If the RAM is soldered in, the the batteries are glued in, and the display is bonded in, then there has been a definite move away from repairability, upgradeability, long product life, recyclability, and ease of disposal. That isn't FUD, it's a simple FACT of design, usability, and engineering.
Open your mind to consider ideas different from your own.
As an aside, not related to anything, why is it trolls that always feel they have to start every post with "I'm an Apple fan, but…"?
[QUOTE]My issue with the new system is that Apple forces you to pay the extra money for the SSD even if you don't want it.[/QUOTE]
You're certain of this?
[QUOTE]…the loss of the ports and other expansion options didn't go over too well with me.[/QUOTE]
Nor did they in 1997 with some iMac users.
[QUOTE]…you can be almost sure that Adobe will not release a "Retina" patch for the older CS5 software.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that the truth… :broken_grumble_emoticon.gif:
I'm still sort of confused why you haven't (or maybe you have) just returned the computer since you don't like the screen, and since that's the entire point of the device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I'm still sort of confused why you haven't (or maybe you have) just returned the computer since you don't like the screen, and since that's the entire point of the device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowbuster
If I thought it was great and worth the money I would have kept it, so all I can leave you with is that I bought it, used it for several days, and ended up returning it and buying the 15" non-Retina model with the upgraded hi-res anti-glare screen and upgraded 750GB 7200RPM hard drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jouster
I'm a professional too. The RMBP meets my needs. What now?
I am glad it does for you! As for now what do you have selective sight, did you read my previous post?
Quote:
... the MacBook Pro was originally touted as an accessible, repairable machine — at Macworld in 2009, Steve Jobs said, “Our pro customers want accessibility: [...] to add memory, to add cards, to add drives.”
from
Quote:
: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/opinion-apple-retina-displa/
Let those who want a small thin "unrepairable" consumer oriented device have the iPads, MBAs or the MBs -- GIVE US WHO NEED IT a workstation quality portable device that is repairable and expandable.... There are many more of these site I can quote if you like. Not that I would ever compare my self to Christ, but "let he who has ears listen" (I'm sure I'll get flamed for that quote too).
Cool. There's a 15 day return policy. Return your Retina MBP and buy one without retina. And send me half of the savings for offering you a solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mess
Sure I can read a 5 point font, but can I get all of the graphic displays I need up and large enough to see from 3 foot away.
...
Sure if you do digital data collection from analog devices
I used do this and frankly if you need the 17" so you can see from 3 feet away you're either a) doing it wrong or b) more blind than I am and that's saying something. We pull data from sensors and plot them as well display raw data points.
For the record the PPI for a 17" 1920x1200 MBP is 132 PPI vs 128 PPI for the 1680x1050 15" MBP. Meaning the text is smaller on the 17" MBP than the 15" MBP at the same text size. Yes you can fit another few rows of data or a thin strip chart in the difference but it's a relatively stupid use case given most of the time you're more than normal distance from your laptop you're likely at a crappy angle, on the wrong side entirely, blocked by some gear, underneath some equipment or washed out by sunlight anyway. Been there, done that. If it's that critical you do 2 people and park one at the damn laptop or bring a longer cable set so you can park the laptop where you need to be.
These days if I have to do this again I'd rather have an ipad right next to me with the data I want on it via wifi rather than hope I can see the stupid laptop screen from wherever I happen to be. I'm only willing to lug along a 17" laptop these days if it's an uber desktop replacement. If it's going to be heavy and annoying anyway it might as well be a Dell or HP with a top end CPU/GPU combo. Fortunately we got young guys to do this and it ain't my (back) problem.
Quote:
nht: I used do this and frankly if you need the 17" so you can see from 3 feet away you're either a) doing it wrong or b) more blind than I am and that's saying something. We pull data from sensors and plot them as well display raw data points.
You know, I don't know how you can say that you have done what I do! You know nothing about what I do. I only said what I said to see what detail I needed to provide.
When you DID this was it real time, and did you have to react in near realtime, or not realtime at all? What sort of "dashboard" did you use to display the information. Did your software have the ability to rescale to the dimensions you want without pixelation (except in extreme cases). Could you change the types of graphs and graphics (with text or not) you wanted to use.
It is a matter of screen real estate. What I can tell you is that on a 1600X1200 15" screen was too small for my liking -- I much prefer the 17" display be it a MacBook Pro, Dell, or whatever. If it is not a problem for you, fine -- use a 15" display, but don't make assumptions about what you know nothing about -- which is the details about the work I do. So here are at least some of the details I would have provided:
It is not a matter of resolution -- 17" 1920x1200 works great for me regardless of how the pixels per inch figure out. The resolution of the display is not that important and has never been a problem. I prefer to not have overlapping windows so I don't have to keep moving things to be able to see what I want to see at any given time. The more I can see -- even if it only on more line, the easier my job becomes Screen layout is paramount for my workflow. Looking for anomalies and "red" flags is what is important and being able to react quickly. If I need to see greater detail I can zoom in on what I want to see at that time or later. Others I know-- that do what I do -- agree with this.
You are welcome to your opinion, but don't judge what you don't understand. Having a portable computer is important, but the MacBook Pro 17" I have is not a problem to "lug" IMHO. The number of devices I have to interface with would totally overwhelm an iPad -- even if the caliber of interface I need is available for USB -- the data loss would make my efforts worthless. Having a portable computer is important. I've never had a problem being blocked by gear, but I do have to keep and eye on other things. Sunlight is definitely not a problem. And there is never 2 people involved in the monitoring -- but there might be in the analysis.
Moreover, that is a minor complaint compared to the other problems I have with the new Retina Display MacBook Pro and the direction Apple seems to be moving in. Please see: post #117
If you want to focus on one of my comments -- out of context, then flame away, flame away.
Quote:
nht: I used do this and frankly if you need the 17" so you can see from 3 feet away you're either a) doing it wrong or b) more blind than I am and that's saying something. We pull data from sensors and plot them as well display raw data points.
You know, I don't know how you can say that you have done what I do! You know nothing about what I do. I only said what I said to see what detail I needed to provide.
When you DID this was it real time, and did you have to react in near realtime, or not realtime at all? What sort of "dashboard" did you use to display the information. Did your software have the ability to rescale to the dimensions you want without pixelation (except in extreme cases). Could you change the types of graphs and graphics (with text or not) you wanted to use.
It is a matter of screen real estate. What I can tell you is that on a 1600X1200 15" screen was too small for my liking -- I much prefer the 17" display be it a MacBook Pro, Dell, or whatever. If it is not a problem for you, fine -- use a 15" display, but don't make assumptions about what you know nothing about -- which is the details about the work I do. So here are at least some of the details I would have provided:
It is not a matter of resolution -- 17" 1920x1200 works great for me regardless of how the pixels per inch figure out. The resolution of the display is not that important and has never been a problem. I prefer to not have overlapping windows so I don't have to keep moving things to be able to see what I want to see at any given time. The more I can see -- even if it only on more line, the easier my job becomes Screen layout is paramount for my workflow. Looking for anomalies and "red" flags is what is important and being able to react quickly. If I need to see greater detail I can zoom in on what I want to see at that time or later. Others I know-- that do what I do -- agree with this.
You are welcome to your opinion, but don't judge what you don't understand. Having a portable computer is important, but the MacBook Pro 17" I have is not a problem to "lug" IMHO. The number of devices I have to interface with would totally overwhelm an iPad -- even if the caliber of interface I need is available for USB -- the data loss would make my efforts worthless. Having a portable computer is important. I've never had a problem being blocked by gear, but I do have to keep and eye on other things. Sunlight is definitely not a problem. And there are never 2 people involved in the monitoring -- but there might be in the analysis.
Moreover, that is a minor complaint compared to the other problems I have with the new Retina Display MacBook Pro and the direction Apple seems to be moving in. Please see: post #117
If you want to focus on one of my comments -- out of context, then flame away, flame away.
Did you buy this to prove your previous impression that the new Retina model is a bad idea? That's the vibe I'm getting here, assuming you really did buy it.
Given all that you wanted built-in (Ethernet, optical drive, affordable big storage, upgradability etc.), it sounds like you could have saved your time and bought the refreshed non-Retina model in the first place.