Ok so now I'm convinced given everything that MS actually has no intention of selling these devices. Yes they will make them, and yes they will ship (at some price, at some point). But the intention isn't to ship them in large quantities or actually sell more than a handful.
The goal of this show today and the announcement of this device is to do nothing more than slow down sales of the iPad. It's a vain, pathetic attempt to try and FUD consumers. Try and trick them into not buying iPads for a few months. That's it! Nothing more.
They don't have key details hammered out for announcement. They don't have a software strategy that is workable. They don't have developers lined up or any partnerships to speak of. I'm convinced now this is just an attempt to slow down sales of the iPad.
Fail on Price, Fail on LTE and Fail on Battery Life. The RT not being retina is competing price wise with the $399 iPad 2 and the pro will get crush by cheap ultra books. IMHO no chance against the iPad because of the apps but android can get beat by win8 tablet productivity in the work place...
Also I don't like 16:9 on 19" tablets only works for movies for everything else it sucks...
No price, no mention of LTE, no mention of battery life. RT competing against ipad 2, but has double capacity. pro get crushed by the hypothesised cheap ultrabooks? Win 8 tablet has access to all windows software, but has no chance against ipad apps? or are you going winRT win8 again?
Exactly the problem. The iPad tablet is *already* a computer, in the simplest, easiest possible form-factor, with software designed to work on it perfectly. There is no "forcing" of the tablet into a traditional "computer" form-factor. Because then what do you get? A compromised tablet and a compromised computer. One foot in both worlds, not really succeeding in either.
The what-Fone?
the ipad already excells at being a compromised computer.
Good and bold move, seems like they are waking up, had google been ballsy enough and brought their own tablet a year or so ago maybe we'd have seen some storage options for this ipad and not joke storage of 16gb that's not even worthwhile for an ipod, let alone a tablet. The construction of this tablet seems solid, the os is looking good and it's bringing quite a few things to the table (much more than android) and the dev environment too. And the entreprise market is there waiting.
With apple sound asleep over ios development (where are customizable widgets? why is the lock screen still after 5 years a glorified watch? where are live updating notification in an active screen? ) and passing off alarm clocks as os development material the field is wide open.
They need a few more things at ms though:
a. Subsidizing their app store, that is properly curating it and giving strong financial incentives to devs.
b. Good qc and customer support.
c. Putting one person in charge of this and having him present the efforts, and using a small dedicated team to tightly control the vision for it in terms of new product development.
b. losing Balmer from the keynotes and bringing in some of the talent responsible for the products. Does that fat **** think he's doing the company any favors by delivering the keynotes? His ridiculous comments and lack of foresight in the consumer space has made him look like a fool a gazillionth times...isn't it hight time he got the **** out of the main stage and let some others do the talking?
Some people here may laugh all they want, but in a year and a half ms will easily have at least a 15% chunk of the tablet market, and that won't be any laughing matter.
p.s. Is surface the best they could come up with, I remember that table or something they used to have and called it surface. It doesn't roll on the tongue, it's generic, what's a surface? anything has a surface?, it's not something one imagines someone saying to someone else, get me the surface, where did I leave my surface (on which surface)? Piss poor choice. Fire the marketing (again) I 'd have gone with MS Tablet. Say what it is. Make it simple.
Some people here may laugh all they want, but in a year and a half ms will easily have at least a 15% chunk of the tablet market, and that won't be any laughing matter.
Ok first off, that's pathetic. Secondly, assuming you are right and they managed to get 15% in 18 months, I don't think that's anything to brag about. If you're thinking 15% is some kinda launching off point where they suddenly zoom to market dominance, that's highly doubtful. And if they did take 15%, after any amount of time, it would likely come at the expense of Android tablets since they are the weak link here.
But they aren't going to get 15%, not without radically rethinking their strategies. You're talking about minor OS gimmicks or animations that do the wrong thing, waste battery life and cause distractions. Apple's OS philosophy, in the mobile space, has clearly been the right one: get the OS out of the way and have it be all about the apps.
If the competitor strategy is to make a wizbang overly featured OS (like android 3.0 etc) then that is the wrong strategy. Minimalist OS's work best when you have hundreds of thousands of apps.
Ok first off, that's pathetic. Secondly, assuming you are right and they managed to get 15% in 18 months, I don't think that's anything to brag about. If you're thinking 15% is some kinda launching off point where they suddenly zoom to market dominance, that's highly doubtful. And if they did take 15%, after any amount of time, it would likely come at the expense of Android tablets since they are the weak link here.
You can't expect them to have market dominance that late in the game. The market is still young though and they can put a foot solidly in the door and manage to have a good share in a few years. It won't only come at the expense of android btw. In any case that's my prediction, if they can get this out the door in 3 months my prediction stands.
That commercial was clearly supposed to be gadget porn. They're trying to give it an aura of clever design and rich, high quality materials. Somebody desperately wants their commercial to say, "See? We can out-Apple Apple!"
A shame. Microsoft could have shipped Courier tablet instead. But I think they're deathly afraid of a post-PC era without Windows.
Ah I thought that was Samsung with their Series 9 commercials showing off it's "killer design". LOL Seriously there's nothing killer design wise with Surface, other than it's not plastic. No one yet seems to get the fit and finish as right as Apple does. Vizio is trying to go there with their new computers.
I guess we can thank Jony Ive (and Steve) for forcing other PC makers to focus on good design but sometimes it feels only surface deep. Let's make something that looks sleek and cool. But then you use it and the keyboard and trackpad suck, the battery life is terrible, or comes installed with a bunch of bloat ware, etc. yeah this smart cover/ keyboard looks cool but how is it to type on? From the looks of it I'd rather type on an onscreen keyboard or use a laptop. I'm sure Apple had all sorts of concepts in their design lab that never make it to market because while the form may looks sleek and cool the function isn't there.
I think the RT version is heading straight to the dump, but the Pro version has some legs to it. Can it take down the iPad? Not entirely. It will take away some of the iPad's market share while killing off the Andriod tablets.
But the REAL battle here is not the consumer market, but the enterprise market. The iPad will dominate the consumer market, but the Surface Pro running Windows 8 and all of it's business apps, that easily integrates into existing MS Windows Server environments, especially Exchange, is going to be very appealing to corporate America.
"It's lighter and more stylish than a laptop, but has the power of a desktop.... It looks and runs exactly like our existing PC's...." This is exactly what many corporate IT shops have been waiting for. A windows tablet that looks as cool as an Apple iPad. Remember most corporate IT shops are not exactly Apple friendly. They are squarely in Microsoft's corner.
Trust me, I've been pushing for nearly two years to get my corporate IT shop to let me connect my iPad to the network and all I hear is it's not secure enough. I suspect that they will have no problems letting this thing in.
And this well be what Microsoft is banking on. Rather compete for consumers, MS is going after enterprises.
It looks really awesome, and it is the perfect Windows-esque answer to Apple's "post-PC" device.
The keyboard smart-cover is brilliant! Perhaps a Bluetooth connected knock-offs will make it to my iPad.
I hope that MS can deliver. More options is better for everyone,
Are Microsoft asking their staff to post on Apple blogs I wonder or is all the crap posted today voluntary?
I think the RT version is heading straight to the dump, but the Pro version has some legs to it. Can it take down the iPad? Not entirely. It will take away some of the iPad's market share while killing off the Andriod tablets.
But the REAL battle here is not the consumer market, but the enterprise market. The iPad will dominate the consumer market, but the Surface Pro running Windows 8 and all of it's business apps, that easily integrates into existing MS Windows Server environments, especially Exchange, is going to be very appealing to corporate America.
"It's lighter and more stylish than a laptop, but has the power of a desktop.... It looks and runs exactly like our existing PC's...." This is exactly what many corporate IT shops have been waiting for. A windows tablet that looks as cool as an Apple iPad. Remember most corporate IT shops are not exactly Apple friendly. They are squarely in Microsoft's corner.
Trust me, I've been pushing for nearly two years to get my corporate IT shop to let me connect my iPad to the network and all I hear is it's not secure enough. I suspect that they will have no problems letting this thing in.
And this well be what Microsoft is banking on. Rather compete for consumers, MS is going after enterprises.
Hmm. I work for a fortune 50 company and most of out executives have iPads. And we've developed financial dashboards/scorecards apps for them. Just the other day when working from home my work laptop crashed while I was on a WebEx. I pulled out my iPad, logged on to Good, pulled up the meeting invite with the WebEx link and in less than a minute I was back on my WebEx on my iPad. Not connected to the company network at alI. I keep hearing about how corporate CIO's are waiting for Windows tablets because of Exchange and Office. But my company is just starting to upgrade to Windows 7 and Office 2010. I can't see them jumping on the Windows 8 bandwagon that quickly. Heck even Michael Dell admitted this on Dell's last earnings call.
The question of "what category is this" arises. It's a bit muddy right now. IF they can make this a new category, the Laptop Replacement that Works as a Tablet or something, it'll be good for them. The facts almost don't matter, like the fact that the iPad can have a keyboard cover too. It's all about perception. And then there's the question of the two models. Are they different categories? The same category with entry and advanced versions? If they don't get their messaging and positioning right this will just confuse people and make them not want to engage in the considering/researching/trying/buying process.
The question of design attractiveness and price arises. By design I mean the whole experience, not just the hardware When people get hold of this will they feel good? Will it be an experience like Apple that justifies the price? Because I don't think they have a chance of undercutting Apple significantly. But I could be surprised. Then it would be the "cheaper and good enough" alternative.
Both of these questions are unanswered right now. It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds.
I can answer it for you right now. For a moment imagine trying to use the MS Surface as a laptop. First, you need to prop up the screen close to your lap so the kickstand has somewhere to stand. Then you flop the rubber keyboard out so it can lay on what's left of your thighs and up your belly. Pay no attention to the parts drooping off the sides of your legs.
Now, ask yourself, "Does this feel like a laptop or a table top computer?" Notice that no one demoed the Surface as a lap top computer.
You may think that "well then, this is a tablet." So take off the magnetically attached keyboard or fold it back out of the way. Turn the table to portrait mode and read an eBook. Wait! Does this even work in portrait mode? No one said it could, nor was it demoed in that mode.
So what we have here is a table top computer that you can easily transport from one table to another. Kind of like the MBA or the MBP-retina except with those computers you can easily use them as a laptop in between tables - and they have back lit keyboards for that train commute home, or to use in under-lit situations, like at MS vaporware presentations.
Comments
Ok so now I'm convinced given everything that MS actually has no intention of selling these devices. Yes they will make them, and yes they will ship (at some price, at some point). But the intention isn't to ship them in large quantities or actually sell more than a handful.
The goal of this show today and the announcement of this device is to do nothing more than slow down sales of the iPad. It's a vain, pathetic attempt to try and FUD consumers. Try and trick them into not buying iPads for a few months. That's it! Nothing more.
They don't have key details hammered out for announcement. They don't have a software strategy that is workable. They don't have developers lined up or any partnerships to speak of. I'm convinced now this is just an attempt to slow down sales of the iPad.
The zdnet article says it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAdOwXPR
Fail on Price, Fail on LTE and Fail on Battery Life. The RT not being retina is competing price wise with the $399 iPad 2 and the pro will get crush by cheap ultra books. IMHO no chance against the iPad because of the apps but android can get beat by win8 tablet productivity in the work place...
Also I don't like 16:9 on 19" tablets only works for movies for everything else it sucks...
No price, no mention of LTE, no mention of battery life. RT competing against ipad 2, but has double capacity. pro get crushed by the hypothesised cheap ultrabooks? Win 8 tablet has access to all windows software, but has no chance against ipad apps? or are you going winRT win8 again?
Here's the Original MS "Surface" from 2007 - a TABLE with a hidden computer inside - which the MSNBC lady says MS took 5 YEARS to develop! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18936536/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/t/microsoft-unveils-table-top-computer/
Must have sold really well, like close to ZERO.....that's why after only 5 years, MS can recycle the name "Surface" as if it was a NEW product.
Just change TABLE to TABLET, and it's finished!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Exactly the problem. The iPad tablet is *already* a computer, in the simplest, easiest possible form-factor, with software designed to work on it perfectly. There is no "forcing" of the tablet into a traditional "computer" form-factor. Because then what do you get? A compromised tablet and a compromised computer. One foot in both worlds, not really succeeding in either.
The what-Fone?
the ipad already excells at being a compromised computer.
Good and bold move, seems like they are waking up, had google been ballsy enough and brought their own tablet a year or so ago maybe we'd have seen some storage options for this ipad and not joke storage of 16gb that's not even worthwhile for an ipod, let alone a tablet. The construction of this tablet seems solid, the os is looking good and it's bringing quite a few things to the table (much more than android) and the dev environment too. And the entreprise market is there waiting.
With apple sound asleep over ios development (where are customizable widgets? why is the lock screen still after 5 years a glorified watch? where are live updating notification in an active screen? ) and passing off alarm clocks as os development material the field is wide open.
They need a few more things at ms though:
a. Subsidizing their app store, that is properly curating it and giving strong financial incentives to devs.
b. Good qc and customer support.
c. Putting one person in charge of this and having him present the efforts, and using a small dedicated team to tightly control the vision for it in terms of new product development.
b. losing Balmer from the keynotes and bringing in some of the talent responsible for the products. Does that fat **** think he's doing the company any favors by delivering the keynotes? His ridiculous comments and lack of foresight in the consumer space has made him look like a fool a gazillionth times...isn't it hight time he got the **** out of the main stage and let some others do the talking?
Some people here may laugh all they want, but in a year and a half ms will easily have at least a 15% chunk of the tablet market, and that won't be any laughing matter.
p.s. Is surface the best they could come up with, I remember that table or something they used to have and called it surface. It doesn't roll on the tongue, it's generic, what's a surface? anything has a surface?, it's not something one imagines someone saying to someone else, get me the surface, where did I leave my surface (on which surface)? Piss poor choice. Fire the marketing (again) I 'd have gone with MS Tablet. Say what it is. Make it simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
Some people here may laugh all they want, but in a year and a half ms will easily have at least a 15% chunk of the tablet market, and that won't be any laughing matter.
Ok first off, that's pathetic. Secondly, assuming you are right and they managed to get 15% in 18 months, I don't think that's anything to brag about. If you're thinking 15% is some kinda launching off point where they suddenly zoom to market dominance, that's highly doubtful. And if they did take 15%, after any amount of time, it would likely come at the expense of Android tablets since they are the weak link here.
But they aren't going to get 15%, not without radically rethinking their strategies. You're talking about minor OS gimmicks or animations that do the wrong thing, waste battery life and cause distractions. Apple's OS philosophy, in the mobile space, has clearly been the right one: get the OS out of the way and have it be all about the apps.
If the competitor strategy is to make a wizbang overly featured OS (like android 3.0 etc) then that is the wrong strategy. Minimalist OS's work best when you have hundreds of thousands of apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC
Ok first off, that's pathetic. Secondly, assuming you are right and they managed to get 15% in 18 months, I don't think that's anything to brag about. If you're thinking 15% is some kinda launching off point where they suddenly zoom to market dominance, that's highly doubtful. And if they did take 15%, after any amount of time, it would likely come at the expense of Android tablets since they are the weak link here.
You can't expect them to have market dominance that late in the game. The market is still young though and they can put a foot solidly in the door and manage to have a good share in a few years. It won't only come at the expense of android btw. In any case that's my prediction, if they can get this out the door in 3 months my prediction stands.
I guess we can thank Jony Ive (and Steve) for forcing other PC makers to focus on good design but sometimes it feels only surface deep. Let's make something that looks sleek and cool. But then you use it and the keyboard and trackpad suck, the battery life is terrible, or comes installed with a bunch of bloat ware, etc. yeah this smart cover/ keyboard looks cool but how is it to type on? From the looks of it I'd rather type on an onscreen keyboard or use a laptop. I'm sure Apple had all sorts of concepts in their design lab that never make it to market because while the form may looks sleek and cool the function isn't there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theskivvys
Microsoft copying Apple again!
NO ONE CARES!
Nothing like a story about a former new foe to increase the post count. AI has been a ghost town lately.
267 and counting...
This thing is BLPL............Ballmer's Last Product Launch
You can see it
You can hear it
But you can't touch it...
After another 4 months everyone will be wondering if it ever existed?
This thing is DOA and Microsoft will be dumping them on HSN.
But the REAL battle here is not the consumer market, but the enterprise market. The iPad will dominate the consumer market, but the Surface Pro running Windows 8 and all of it's business apps, that easily integrates into existing MS Windows Server environments, especially Exchange, is going to be very appealing to corporate America.
"It's lighter and more stylish than a laptop, but has the power of a desktop.... It looks and runs exactly like our existing PC's...." This is exactly what many corporate IT shops have been waiting for. A windows tablet that looks as cool as an Apple iPad. Remember most corporate IT shops are not exactly Apple friendly. They are squarely in Microsoft's corner.
Trust me, I've been pushing for nearly two years to get my corporate IT shop to let me connect my iPad to the network and all I hear is it's not secure enough. I suspect that they will have no problems letting this thing in.
And this well be what Microsoft is banking on. Rather compete for consumers, MS is going after enterprises.
Are Microsoft asking their staff to post on Apple blogs I wonder or is all the crap posted today voluntary?
With both hands tied behind your back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Nothing like a story about a former new foe to increase the post count. AI has been a ghost town lately.
267 and counting...
It almost feels like pre-2007 again!
You can do this already with a iPad with this case from Zagg.
http://www.zagg.com/accessories/zaggfolio-ipad-3-keyboard-case
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
Quote:
Originally Posted by theskivvys
That photo says it all!!!
Really looks like one of The Gumbys...somebody get him a little kerchief to tie up on his little head...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDogHasFleas
Hmm interesting. I think two things:
The question of "what category is this" arises. It's a bit muddy right now. IF they can make this a new category, the Laptop Replacement that Works as a Tablet or something, it'll be good for them. The facts almost don't matter, like the fact that the iPad can have a keyboard cover too. It's all about perception. And then there's the question of the two models. Are they different categories? The same category with entry and advanced versions? If they don't get their messaging and positioning right this will just confuse people and make them not want to engage in the considering/researching/trying/buying process.
The question of design attractiveness and price arises. By design I mean the whole experience, not just the hardware When people get hold of this will they feel good? Will it be an experience like Apple that justifies the price? Because I don't think they have a chance of undercutting Apple significantly. But I could be surprised. Then it would be the "cheaper and good enough" alternative.
Both of these questions are unanswered right now. It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds.
I can answer it for you right now. For a moment imagine trying to use the MS Surface as a laptop. First, you need to prop up the screen close to your lap so the kickstand has somewhere to stand. Then you flop the rubber keyboard out so it can lay on what's left of your thighs and up your belly. Pay no attention to the parts drooping off the sides of your legs.
Now, ask yourself, "Does this feel like a laptop or a table top computer?" Notice that no one demoed the Surface as a lap top computer.
You may think that "well then, this is a tablet." So take off the magnetically attached keyboard or fold it back out of the way. Turn the table to portrait mode and read an eBook. Wait! Does this even work in portrait mode? No one said it could, nor was it demoed in that mode.
So what we have here is a table top computer that you can easily transport from one table to another. Kind of like the MBA or the MBP-retina except with those computers you can easily use them as a laptop in between tables - and they have back lit keyboards for that train commute home, or to use in under-lit situations, like at MS vaporware presentations.