I see a lot of comments on the tech blogs about how this will be huge in the enterprise. I find it quite interesting then that MS didn't demonstrate any of these enterprise apps during their announcement yesterday. It seemed to be all about the design of the hardware/keyboard. And tech journalists didn't get to play with anything, didn't get to test out any software on it. Why announce something with very few specs, no price or release date? Why not wait until closer to launch when those specifics have been worked out? It's not like they were announcing beta software that developers needed time to test.
I'm expecting Microsoft products tablets to end up being something like Google Nexus phones - more of a tech showcases than bestsellers. After all, consumers are more likely to go for brand they know well (and is more related to hardware in their minds) than for OS developer.
Re Android tablets, yah I think they will suffer most. In my mind, problem with Android tablets is lack of ecosystem. I'm expecting that Windows tablets will integrate with SkyDrive/Hotmail, Xbox Live, Barns & Noble bookstore, and in general be friendlier with both home and corporate Windows networks in terms of apps compatibility and connectivity. It is not that Androids cannot achieve most of those things, but it just doesn't feel to be on the same level.
For example, having full control over whole system, it shouldn't be a problem for MS to release (or make a part of Windows 8) simple to use software that will act as print server for their ARM tablets and phones, enabling Windows RT and Apollo to print to any home or office printer regardless of if there is actual printer driver for Windows RT... or even Windows Phone... since whole document-to-printer conversion will be made on host desktop PC (or server).
I don't care for the 16:9 display. OK for watching movies but froma productivity standpoint I think Apple's screen size is much more practical. If the buy in feature is Office and Exchange wouldn't you want a wider screen vs a taller one?
Not exactly in this case. Several of the major PC makers tried to go the tablet route after the debut of the iPad, suffered utter catastrophes, withdrew completely, and essentially have been sitting on their hands ever since. They should be the last people to take offense that Microsoft is giving tablets another shot.
If I were a tablet maker, my next move would be to lock in Android as my platform. Why would you want to compete with M$ when they are selling the hardware and software when there's another established open platform?
Oh yes, and if you want an iPad with a skinny keyboard that turns it into a lightweight notebook, it already exists:
While the new thing may be better in execution, this review confirms one of my suspicions of this class of device: a thin keyboard lacks tactile feedback and hence is no real advance over on-screen typing.
They just did. Didn't you hear Ballmer calling tablets PCs too at D10? This is his vision of a tablet: a Windows laptop with a detachable keyboard and Metro.
"Our PC partners knew in advance we were announcing something today in this space,” he said.
When asked how they felt about it, Ballmer simply replied with "no comment."
Obviously, they're not going to be happy. Of course, that's the same thing Google did when they announced that they were buying Motorola. Existing licensees have to compete with the licensor.
The timing would have been good for MS to license Windows RT to other companies because those companies would have to be nervous about competing with Google if they use Android. Microsoft would have had a big advantage if they didn't build hardware. By announcing that they're building hardware, they lose that advantage. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Before deciding the Surface would make a good laptop, consider this: The screen NEEDS space in front of your knees for the kickstand to hold it up. THe rubber keyboard is then expected to fit in the smaller space between the screen and your belt. Fortunates it's flexible so you can run it part way up your stomach. Compose your typing carefully for parts of the rubber keyboard will flop over the sides of your legs.
Ballmer is fixated on the Keyboard. Apple is moving toward a voice-based future. The QWERTY keyboard was invented in the late 1800s. It's had a great run, but it's really not the best way to input into portable devices. (texting by teens notwithstanding). While Siri is still beta, Apple has gathered millions of hours of data on how people speak and that has improved Siri considerably. In addition that has included a large number of languages. With iOS6 and OSX 10.7 we will begin to see the results of all that data, and I believe THAT will scuttle a lot of what MS is trying to do with keyboards.
One last thing. Because of Apple's desire for an excellent user experience, and their experience with building phone technology, Apple has developed the best background noise filtering hardware and software... Watch for that to enter into the voice experience too.
I don't think it's that simple. I really think there's a place for a physical keyboard on a tablet. I've argued for quite a while for an 'iPad Pro' which has more of a laptop configuration, but thinner and lighter - something like what MS has done. There are a lot of people who would love something like this for simple email and web browsing stuff when traveling so they don't need to carry a regular laptop (I know I would). While the iPad and other tablets are capable of sending email and browsing the web, it's clumsy if you're a touch typist.
I'm assuming that the keyboard can be folded out of the way like the old HP slates and you can use this as a 'normal' tablet without the keyboard. If that's not true and you always need the keyboard, I think it stinks.
ETA:
I just found some more information about the tablet and the keyboard is a removable option, so I don't think it's at all unreasonable. As I said, I think there's a place for a tablet with folding keyboard.
This is probably the biggest risk, and the biggest reward strategy. Ballmer has to have noticed that Apple went from near oblivion to the world's most valuable company in just over a decade following an integrated hardware/software strategy, while Microsoft spent the last 10 years stagnating and living off its cash cows called Office and Windows XP/7. If he succeeds, he'll keep his job a while longer and secure his place in Microsoft folklore. If he fails, we'll see another CEO in a few years.
That said, it's a bit sad that it took Microsoft to show the OEMs how to design a decent competitor to the iPad. They didn't try to copy it, the way that HP, Samsung, and ASUS did.
I think that's the key. This is a Hail Mary play. The other alternative (licensing Windows RT to other hardware manufacturers) would have been lower risk, but also lower reward. In this case, though, I suspect that the conventional licensing approach would have been better since Google is busy alienating Android licensees and, of course, all the fragmentation issues surrounding Android (my ex just bought a brand new phone on Sunday and it still has Android 2.3. My daughter's Android phone broke and they're sending a brand new model as a replacement - and it's also Android 2.3. When did Android 3 come out? When did Android 4 come out?
1: While including a keyboard may be a neat idea (Apple smartly left that up to the third party peripheral makers after the original iPad's keyboard/dock), the inclusion of a trackpad is a weak point. You're supposed to touch the screen. It's the whole point. My guess is that the trackpad was thrown in when they realized that once you're dumped from Metro into the classic desktop, you need a mouse to navigate. Makes me wonder if the keyboard cover is only compatible with the Windows 8 version of this thing...
1a: That kickstand better be removable or tuck up into the back of the tablet so it's practically invisible when not in use.
2: Naming. Jesus Microsoft. Surface was what you called that Big Ass Table (TM). Now it's The New Surface. Not only that, it's "The New Surface for Windows 8" and "The New Surface for Windows RT". Why the hell does it seem that Apple is the only company who likes short, to the point, easy to remember names? Could be worse I guess (looks at any tablet released by Motorola).
3: To echo a few others in here: When are you going to release this? How much is it going to cost?
I dunno. I don't see much to really get excited about.
You mean the Zune wasn't sufficient as a doorstop and you needed something bigger? Or do you have a a wobbly table with <two> legs that need propping up? ;P
The keyboard included in the cover is a nice feature, however for tablets the typical usage is on the go and most likely the keyboard is not required or not usable due to space limitations, so I don't know if it a must have feature for everyone. Certainly you don't want to pay for it if you don't need it. It is better to have a accessory option like BT keyboard so you pay for it if needed.
If I were a tablet maker, my next move would be to lock in Android as my platform. Why would you want to compete with M$ when they are selling the hardware and software when there's another established open platform?
Oh yes, and if you want an iPad with a skinny keyboard that turns it into a lightweight notebook, it already exists:
While the new thing may be better in execution, this review confirms one of my suspicions of this class of device: a thin keyboard lacks tactile feedback and hence is no real advance over on-screen typing.
thanks. iLounge has reviewed 35 iPad keyboard cases over the last two years! maybe half are still on sale today. most are pretty similar, with "real" keys. some have unusual features (like a solar/light powered battery). i bet you one of these accessory makers knocks-off the MS keyboard cover concept, making a version for the iPad, before MS even begins to sell its own late this year.
it's terrible how Apple makes you use only Apple products ... oh wait, actually it doesn't. well, don't write about that. it would spoil the CW.
1: While including a keyboard may be a neat idea (Apple smartly left that up to the third party peripheral makers after the original iPad's keyboard/dock), the inclusion of a trackpad is a weak point. You're supposed to touch the screen. It's the whole point.
that's the dead giveaway: the Intel Surface is meant to be a pseudo laptop. just smaller and lighter. with a semi-touch UI.
but only (mostly) power users will still want any kind of laptop from now on. and for them screen area is really important. for multiple windows, old-style programs with numerous UI elements, and of course spreadsheets. even a small 13" laptop screen provides 70% more screen area to work with than 10" does.
how many of them will downsize their work screen by 40%, and give up a real keyboard, just to save 3-4 lbs? why? when it makes a lot of what they must do harder to do? 3-4 lbs and several inches difference are just not as important as screen area for them.
the Intel Surface is going to be a dead giveaway in more ways than one.
Microsoft was slow out of the gate watching and waiting like a predator. They "were" the only game in the smartphone market for years. Then iOS happened which took the smartphone market in a completely new direction. A direction Microsoft wasn't prepared for. 5 years later they have deployed Windows Phone 7.5 Mango (a great but young mobile OS)and have essentially purchased a phone manufacturer (Nokia). Over the next 12 months we're going to see a "sleeping giant" enter the mobile phone arena.
I wonder how it will work out. I am seeing an issue when used as a touch tablet. When I use my iPad, I flip the cover all the way flat against the back of the device and grip it with my finger in the back. Now I imagine doing that with the keyboard facing out, won't I be accidentally entering keystrokes, or do you think it is smart enough to turn the keyboard off in that position?
I look at that thing and I think it looks pretty slick.
Then I think about it's practicality. To use it as a keyboarded device, it would appear that you'd need to have it on a hard, flat surface, like a desk. That ultra-thin keyboard can't possibly be rigid enough to actually use in your lap, can it? That takes away a TON of utility right off the bat. I can use my Macbook Air or an Ultrabook in my lap or anywhere I wan to use it. Same for a simple tablet like the iPad or any other. But this thing's keyboard is basically useless unless you want to/have the ability to park yourself at a desk or table of some type. And then even if you do, what do you have? A slightly thinner, slightly ligher, Ultrabook clone that will probably cost just as much, but not be as useful. So why on earth would I want this over an Ultrabook? I wouldn't. And that's not due to distaste for MS, just simple practicality.
Typical of MS (and so many others that have been coming out with panic responses to Apple products the past few years), the announcement is premature - no ship date, no pricing, no hands-on for the attendees. Yet another unfinished product, promised at some price at some future date. Which will probably turn out to be a long ways off, unless they rush it to market, which would be a BIG mistake (ask Palm/HP).
Prediction: moderate success at first, then sales tailing off sharply. Meanwhile iPad continues to kick ass and Macbook Air continues to sell like hotcakes, as if nothing ever happened. Time will tell.
Windows 8 also has an on-screen keyboard so you can use it just like an iPad in regard to usage....OR you can set it on a table and use it like a laptop. The keyboard isn't for your lap...sigh. I really cannot believe all the naysayers who have nothing but negative comments simply because they suffer MS rage-hate. The idea of a portable computer than can act as a tablet AND a desktop computer is a fantastic idea. If Apple were to create an iPad "Pro" that could run iOS apps and standard OSX software Apple supporters would be cheering like it was the second coming. So what if this doesn't have iPad battery life? If it has battery life equal to an "ultrabook" that is fine.
If I were a tablet maker, my next move would be to lock in Android as my platform. Why would you want to compete with M$ when they are selling the hardware and software when there's another established open platform?
Oh yes, and if you want an iPad with a skinny keyboard that turns it into a lightweight notebook, it already exists:
While the new thing may be better in execution, this review confirms one of my suspicions of this class of device: a thin keyboard lacks tactile feedback and hence is no real advance over on-screen typing.
Incorrect. If nothing else...a keyboard like this lets you use the entire screen instead of having your screen half-filled with an online keyboard. Also, no one knows what they keyboard will feel like. Notice the MS keyboard has raised keys. The keyboard in your photo does not.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer
Not exactly in this case. Several of the major PC makers tried to go the tablet route after the debut of the iPad, suffered utter catastrophes, withdrew completely, and essentially have been sitting on their hands ever since. They should be the last people to take offense that Microsoft is giving tablets another shot.
If I were a tablet maker, my next move would be to lock in Android as my platform. Why would you want to compete with M$ when they are selling the hardware and software when there's another established open platform?
Oh yes, and if you want an iPad with a skinny keyboard that turns it into a lightweight notebook, it already exists:
While the new thing may be better in execution, this review confirms one of my suspicions of this class of device: a thin keyboard lacks tactile feedback and hence is no real advance over on-screen typing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big KC
To use it as a keyboarded device, it would appear that you'd need to have it on a hard, flat surface, like a desk.
I wonder if there's an app for that. A virtual keyboard app seems pretty simple to do.
They just did. Didn't you hear Ballmer calling tablets PCs too at D10? This is his vision of a tablet: a Windows laptop with a detachable keyboard and Metro.
Obviously, they're not going to be happy. Of course, that's the same thing Google did when they announced that they were buying Motorola. Existing licensees have to compete with the licensor.
The timing would have been good for MS to license Windows RT to other companies because those companies would have to be nervous about competing with Google if they use Android. Microsoft would have had a big advantage if they didn't build hardware. By announcing that they're building hardware, they lose that advantage. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
So you're a slow learner? If you got burned on a Zune, why would you do the same thing again without waiting to see how it plays out?
I don't think it's that simple. I really think there's a place for a physical keyboard on a tablet. I've argued for quite a while for an 'iPad Pro' which has more of a laptop configuration, but thinner and lighter - something like what MS has done. There are a lot of people who would love something like this for simple email and web browsing stuff when traveling so they don't need to carry a regular laptop (I know I would). While the iPad and other tablets are capable of sending email and browsing the web, it's clumsy if you're a touch typist.
I'm assuming that the keyboard can be folded out of the way like the old HP slates and you can use this as a 'normal' tablet without the keyboard. If that's not true and you always need the keyboard, I think it stinks.
ETA:
I just found some more information about the tablet and the keyboard is a removable option, so I don't think it's at all unreasonable. As I said, I think there's a place for a tablet with folding keyboard.
I think that's the key. This is a Hail Mary play. The other alternative (licensing Windows RT to other hardware manufacturers) would have been lower risk, but also lower reward. In this case, though, I suspect that the conventional licensing approach would have been better since Google is busy alienating Android licensees and, of course, all the fragmentation issues surrounding Android (my ex just bought a brand new phone on Sunday and it still has Android 2.3. My daughter's Android phone broke and they're sending a brand new model as a replacement - and it's also Android 2.3. When did Android 3 come out? When did Android 4 come out?
1: While including a keyboard may be a neat idea (Apple smartly left that up to the third party peripheral makers after the original iPad's keyboard/dock), the inclusion of a trackpad is a weak point. You're supposed to touch the screen. It's the whole point. My guess is that the trackpad was thrown in when they realized that once you're dumped from Metro into the classic desktop, you need a mouse to navigate. Makes me wonder if the keyboard cover is only compatible with the Windows 8 version of this thing...
1a: That kickstand better be removable or tuck up into the back of the tablet so it's practically invisible when not in use.
2: Naming. Jesus Microsoft. Surface was what you called that Big Ass Table (TM). Now it's The New Surface. Not only that, it's "The New Surface for Windows 8" and "The New Surface for Windows RT". Why the hell does it seem that Apple is the only company who likes short, to the point, easy to remember names? Could be worse I guess (looks at any tablet released by Motorola).
3: To echo a few others in here: When are you going to release this? How much is it going to cost?
I dunno. I don't see much to really get excited about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh
I'm so excited. Something to sit next to my Zune.
You mean the Zune wasn't sufficient as a doorstop and you needed something bigger? Or do you have a a wobbly table with <two> legs that need propping up? ;P
The keyboard included in the cover is a nice feature, however for tablets the typical usage is on the go and most likely the keyboard is not required or not usable due to space limitations, so I don't know if it a must have feature for everyone. Certainly you don't want to pay for it if you don't need it. It is better to have a accessory option like BT keyboard so you pay for it if needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm
If I were a tablet maker, my next move would be to lock in Android as my platform. Why would you want to compete with M$ when they are selling the hardware and software when there's another established open platform?
Oh yes, and if you want an iPad with a skinny keyboard that turns it into a lightweight notebook, it already exists:
While the new thing may be better in execution, this review confirms one of my suspicions of this class of device: a thin keyboard lacks tactile feedback and hence is no real advance over on-screen typing.
thanks. iLounge has reviewed 35 iPad keyboard cases over the last two years! maybe half are still on sale today. most are pretty similar, with "real" keys. some have unusual features (like a solar/light powered battery). i bet you one of these accessory makers knocks-off the MS keyboard cover concept, making a version for the iPad, before MS even begins to sell its own late this year.
it's terrible how Apple makes you use only Apple products ... oh wait, actually it doesn't. well, don't write about that. it would spoil the CW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sticknick
1: While including a keyboard may be a neat idea (Apple smartly left that up to the third party peripheral makers after the original iPad's keyboard/dock), the inclusion of a trackpad is a weak point. You're supposed to touch the screen. It's the whole point.
that's the dead giveaway: the Intel Surface is meant to be a pseudo laptop. just smaller and lighter. with a semi-touch UI.
but only (mostly) power users will still want any kind of laptop from now on. and for them screen area is really important. for multiple windows, old-style programs with numerous UI elements, and of course spreadsheets. even a small 13" laptop screen provides 70% more screen area to work with than 10" does.
how many of them will downsize their work screen by 40%, and give up a real keyboard, just to save 3-4 lbs? why? when it makes a lot of what they must do harder to do? 3-4 lbs and several inches difference are just not as important as screen area for them.
the Intel Surface is going to be a dead giveaway in more ways than one.
What Ballmer said: "Our PC partners knew in advance we were announcing something today in this space."
What Ballmer thought: So long, suckers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
that's the dead giveaway: the Intel Surface is meant to be a pseudo laptop. just smaller and lighter. with a semi-touch UI.
The Surface, with its keyboard-cover, just screams "We had no idea what to do so we just threw all this stuff in."
And Windows 8 screams the same thing on the software side. Desktop version / pad version and the twain shall never meet.
I've been waiting to see if this would come true... 10/26/2011
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/134757/nokia-launches-first-windows-phones-to-take-on-apples-iphone-4s#post_1974632
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHrubik
Microsoft was slow out of the gate watching and waiting like a predator. They "were" the only game in the smartphone market for years. Then iOS happened which took the smartphone market in a completely new direction. A direction Microsoft wasn't prepared for. 5 years later they have deployed Windows Phone 7.5 Mango (a great but young mobile OS)and have essentially purchased a phone manufacturer (Nokia). Over the next 12 months we're going to see a "sleeping giant" enter the mobile phone arena.
iOS and Android have a lot to fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb
Keyboard cover very cool.
I wonder how it will work out. I am seeing an issue when used as a touch tablet. When I use my iPad, I flip the cover all the way flat against the back of the device and grip it with my finger in the back. Now I imagine doing that with the keyboard facing out, won't I be accidentally entering keystrokes, or do you think it is smart enough to turn the keyboard off in that position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big KC
I look at that thing and I think it looks pretty slick.
Then I think about it's practicality. To use it as a keyboarded device, it would appear that you'd need to have it on a hard, flat surface, like a desk. That ultra-thin keyboard can't possibly be rigid enough to actually use in your lap, can it? That takes away a TON of utility right off the bat. I can use my Macbook Air or an Ultrabook in my lap or anywhere I wan to use it. Same for a simple tablet like the iPad or any other. But this thing's keyboard is basically useless unless you want to/have the ability to park yourself at a desk or table of some type. And then even if you do, what do you have? A slightly thinner, slightly ligher, Ultrabook clone that will probably cost just as much, but not be as useful. So why on earth would I want this over an Ultrabook? I wouldn't. And that's not due to distaste for MS, just simple practicality.
Typical of MS (and so many others that have been coming out with panic responses to Apple products the past few years), the announcement is premature - no ship date, no pricing, no hands-on for the attendees. Yet another unfinished product, promised at some price at some future date. Which will probably turn out to be a long ways off, unless they rush it to market, which would be a BIG mistake (ask Palm/HP).
Prediction: moderate success at first, then sales tailing off sharply. Meanwhile iPad continues to kick ass and Macbook Air continues to sell like hotcakes, as if nothing ever happened. Time will tell.
Windows 8 also has an on-screen keyboard so you can use it just like an iPad in regard to usage....OR you can set it on a table and use it like a laptop. The keyboard isn't for your lap...sigh. I really cannot believe all the naysayers who have nothing but negative comments simply because they suffer MS rage-hate. The idea of a portable computer than can act as a tablet AND a desktop computer is a fantastic idea. If Apple were to create an iPad "Pro" that could run iOS apps and standard OSX software Apple supporters would be cheering like it was the second coming. So what if this doesn't have iPad battery life? If it has battery life equal to an "ultrabook" that is fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm
If I were a tablet maker, my next move would be to lock in Android as my platform. Why would you want to compete with M$ when they are selling the hardware and software when there's another established open platform?
Oh yes, and if you want an iPad with a skinny keyboard that turns it into a lightweight notebook, it already exists:
While the new thing may be better in execution, this review confirms one of my suspicions of this class of device: a thin keyboard lacks tactile feedback and hence is no real advance over on-screen typing.
Incorrect. If nothing else...a keyboard like this lets you use the entire screen instead of having your screen half-filled with an online keyboard. Also, no one knows what they keyboard will feel like. Notice the MS keyboard has raised keys. The keyboard in your photo does not.