So anyone have an idea what Apple might be doing with the Mini, and when you think it might be updated?
I'm hoping it gets replaced by a new concept. Further I hope Apple gets over their idiotic need to castrate the machine.
Quad CPU's across the whole line up ?
Even with Ivy Bridge I think that will be difficult in the same housing. Especially in the model with the descrete GPU!
On-par graphics with iMac ?
I wish!
All SSD making it even smaller ?
Again it would be nice to have at least one slot for an SSD. However smaller is the wrong direction to go for this platform.
Here is what I'd like to see:
A slightly larger case to offer up more room for a powersupply bulk up. This would allow for some of the features that are needed below.
We still need a model with a descrete GPU, however if Apple screws us again I can't see a rush in sales. So the descrete GPU needs to be an upper midrange model with at least 512 MB of VRAM and preferably 1GB. The midrange GPU and RAM is in part the reason for a bigger box/power supply.
I agree quad cores should be a priority but I'm not sure Intel has one suitable for the machine. I'd actually like to see AMDs Trinity processor in the Mini as the GPU would be a huge win for the Mini. In any event I want to see laptop processors in the machine but I do wish that they could support high wattage units. The Mini should be close to equal to Apples laptop lines performance wise.
at least two TB ports.
USB 3 obviously.
SSD over PCI Express. Hopefully Apple defines a card format that wors on the Mini, iMac and the coming Mac Pro replacement. Apples new laptops are demonstrating rather impressive SSD performance right now, it is obvious that SATA will soon need to be replaced.
Bulk storage is still a real need so two bays for magnetic drives are required.
An expansion slot.
Hardware theft protection, so that the machine can always be found on the Internet.
Plenty of RAM capacity. Ideally expansion to 32 GB. Further ship the damn machine with at least 4GB of RAM IN THE BASE MACHINE. Apple has spent far to many years selling this thing without enough RAM. Use desktop RAM modules.
Note that this is only slightly more than the current machine, with a strong emphasis on the currently poor GPU implementation. The expansion slot could be a completely different format for all I care, the goal is a port to allow customization of the machine.
Of all Apples desktops I see the Mini as the best of their desktops right now. Unfortunately that isn't saying much as the machine is chronically underpowered even when paying extra for an upper tier model. Without much effort Apple could turn the machine into a far more desirable computer.
Same processors that the MacBook Pro got, Intel 4000 graphics across the board, 640M in the top two models, 4GB of RAM across the board, 500GB HDD base with 1TB and dual 1TB options.
It just got a redesign, so nothing is happening there. Apple won't be making an xMac.
I agree with Wizard, going smaller would not be cool; however it seems Apple has this fetish with trimming things up.
Would be awesome to have quads to choose from in the non server models
Up to 32GB ram would be exciting, although I think officially Apple will support 16GB; which I can totally live with.
Dedicated GPU with minimum 1GB VRam..... why so cheap with the VRam Apple !
Dual drive bays will probably by BTO unless going for the server model..... ( however I hope to get dual drives ) I'll probably order SSD's from Newegg or OWC depending on who is dealing.
Again it would be nice to have at least one slot for an SSD. However smaller is the wrong direction to go for this platform.
Here is what I'd like to see:
A slightly larger case to offer up more room for a powersupply bulk up. This would allow for some of the features that are needed below.
We still need a model with a descrete GPU, however if Apple screws us again I can't see a rush in sales. So the descrete GPU needs to be an upper midrange model with at least 512 MB of VRAM and preferably 1GB. The midrange GPU and RAM is in part the reason for a bigger box/power supply.
I agree quad cores should be a priority but I'm not sure Intel has one suitable for the machine. I'd actually like to see AMDs Trinity processor in the Mini as the GPU would be a huge win for the Mini. In any event I want to see laptop processors in the machine but I do wish that they could support high wattage units. The Mini should be close to equal to Apples laptop lines performance wise.
at least two TB ports.
USB 3 obviously.
SSD over PCI Express. Hopefully Apple defines a card format that wors on the Mini, iMac and the coming Mac Pro replacement. Apples new laptops are demonstrating rather impressive SSD performance right now, it is obvious that SATA will soon need to be replaced.
Bulk storage is still a real need so two bays for magnetic drives are required.
An expansion slot.
Hardware theft protection, so that the machine can always be found on the Internet.
Plenty of RAM capacity. Ideally expansion to 32 GB. Further ship the damn machine with at least 4GB of RAM IN THE BASE MACHINE. Apple has spent far to many years selling this thing without enough RAM. Use desktop RAM modules.
Note that this is only slightly more than the current machine, with a strong emphasis on the currently poor GPU implementation. The expansion slot could be a completely different format for all I care, the goal is a port to allow customization of the machine.
Of all Apples desktops I see the Mini as the best of their desktops right now. Unfortunately that isn't saying much as the machine is chronically underpowered even when paying extra for an upper tier model. Without much effort Apple could turn the machine into a far more desirable computer.
They have quite a few skus. While I like ram capacity, I wouldn't expect 32 GB unless you do it yourself. They're using notebook boards and so far they've stuck to 2x sodimm configurations. I haven't located any 16GB sodimms yet. There are a couple 32GB rdimms available if you search around. Ivy Bridge should support the 16GB sticks assuming there aren't hardware incompatibilities on Apple's end, but none are available yet. It may be some time before pricing looks fully practical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player
All SSD making it even smaller ?
Even smaller wouldn't really add anything beyond gimmicky marketing. Their thermals are already pretty bad. I'd rather see them work on this rather than stressing every machine so hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
If more VRAM is not standard, at least offer it as a CTO.??
Vram was only a recent example. The thing I hate is when companies skimp in certain areas that are less effective in terms of marketing. It's the same with idevices. I'd only care quite a lot about specs if they affect the capabilities of the device within its native OS. The mini is cheap for a mac, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be more capable for a stationary machine that still requires roughly $1k of hardware on the conservative end to be functional as a desktop (display, mouse, keyboard not included).
I agree with Wizard, going smaller would not be cool; however it seems Apple has this fetish with trimming things up.
Yeah their need to shrink things doesn't really fit the need of desktop users. The problem I have is that the small enclosure is apparently thermally limiting the performance of the machine. I really want to see top end 45 watt processors in the box with a midrange GPU, this seems to be impossible with the current design.
Would be awesome to have quads to choose from in the non server models
Nice but I don't want Apple to drop the low end model. The flip side of my desire to have MBP like performance is the reality that some simply need low cost. I'd rather see Apple clip the price of the low end model another hundred to stimulate sales.
Up to 32GB ram would be exciting, although I think officially Apple will support 16GB; which I can totally live with.
I could easily live with that much myself. The big issue I see is that I want Apple to get away from purposefully limiting the machines performance.
Dedicated GPU with minimum 1GB VRam..... why so cheap with the VRam Apple !
Well certainly not 256MB when so much software out there specifically reccomends more VRAM.
Dual drive bays will probably by BTO unless going for the server model..... ( however I hope to get dual drives ) I'll probably order SSD's from Newegg or OWC depending on who is dealing.
Dual drive bays are already there. What I'm hoping for is enough room for one of their blade SSDs along with space for the hard drives. Considering how fast the new SSDs are. In the MBPs this would have a significant impact on performance of the machine and give it a new feel.
Of course what you have to be concerned with with Apple and SSDs is that they build in units that are too small. So if Apple does add a blade to the machine lets hope that it is at minimal a 256GB model.
Vram was only a recent example. The thing I hate is when companies skimp in certain areas that are less effective in terms of marketing. It's the same with idevices. I'd only care quite a lot about specs if they affect the capabilities of the device within its native OS. The mini is cheap for a mac, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be more capable for a stationary machine that still requires roughly $1k of hardware on the conservative end to be functional as a desktop (display, mouse, keyboard not included).
I agree with you and I'm hoping they eventually get it. When the mini was released last year; even seeing the AMD Radeon 6630M was a surprise but after a while to soak it all in, a friend and I agreed that 256 MB was a bit minimal.
I agree with you and I'm hoping they eventually get it. When the mini was released last year; even seeing the AMD Radeon 6630M was a surprise but after a while to soak it all in, a friend and I agreed that 256 MB was a bit minimal.
I think you understand my issues with these things quite well. They like to make cuts in areas that most people are unlikely to notice right away. Usually when I bring these things up, the replies contain fabricated statistics on how many people might actually make use of such a feature. Another thing that irritates me would be the thermal issues. These components are not all manufactured perfectly. If you've ever the ifixit teardowns, the thermal paste application is often pretty terrible. There are areas that could be improved dramatically to help thermal profiles. I hate it when fans kick up and the thing is still pushing 190F. If they're manufactured perfectly, this may not be an issue. If not, combined with eventual dust buildup, it can create problems. More people would clean out their machines to help one part of this if they were more accessible. Macrumors has a couple mini threads where people broke cables just trying to install an SSD. I'm extremely careful and I use proper tools, so it's not as likely that I would be one of them, but this still disturbs me in a stationary/desktop machine.
As I often say to people, "Made in China with pride." I remember thinking that I was going to be one of the unlucky ones to not only break something installing an SSD into my mini though that the clips used for the memory modules would also cause a problem. I consider myself lucky on both. I was careful though christ was I nervous.
Have things always been this way though or just recently? Maybe more visits are required to the Foxconn factory for quality control?
Heh maybe someone should tell Apple about Arctic Silver 5.
I think you understand my issues with these things quite well. They like to make cuts in areas that most people are unlikely to notice right away. Usually when I bring these things up, the replies contain fabricated statistics on how many people might actually make use of such a feature.
I suspect people do notice this crap! I'd like to see Mini sales splits because I suspect that many rejected the model containing the GPU because it simply isn't able to support many apps these days, thus the additional expense isn't worth it. A common term is Rip-Off.
As to fabricated reasons many people have trouble getting with the program. I still have Windows users telling me that you don't need a descrete GPU. Even though Windowsitself has been using GPU acceleration for some time. Like wise on the Mac, every Mac OS release has seen an increase in the use of GPU acceleration. In the end it is silly to buy a desktop or even a laptop these days without good GPU acceleration for general purpose usage.
Another thing that irritates me would be the thermal issues. These components are not all manufactured perfectly. If you've ever the ifixit teardowns, the thermal paste application is often pretty terrible. There are areas that could be improved dramatically to help thermal profiles. I hate it when fans kick up and the thing is still pushing 190F. If they're manufactured perfectly, this may not be an issue.
Nothing in this world is manufactured perfectly. Could Mac Assembly be improved, that is almost certain, however the overall quality of the machines is still high relative to similar products from other manufactures.
If not, combined with eventual dust buildup, it can create problems. More people would clean out their machines to help one part of this if they were more accessible. Macrumors has a couple mini threads where people broke cables just trying to install an SSD. I'm extremely careful and I use proper tools, so it's not as likely that I would be one of them, but this still disturbs me in a stationary/desktop machine.
Well considering what I've seen over the years, many people should never get near anything mechanical!!!! I say this in all seriousness as I work in industrial maintenance and one of the first things we tell an operator with an issues is not to touch anything for fear that they will make things worst or hurt themselves. So when I see posts about people breaking things and how Apple sucks; I tend to think, no they suck. For the most part these machines will not break on their own.
As to machine maintenance, It would be better if the machines could be properly cleaned without the need for disassembly magic. The new Mini is actually a tiny improvement in this regards.
As I often say to people, "Made in China with pride."
China has nothing to do with it. The machines are designed by Apple and Apple has been locking things up since after the Apple 2. Effectively the Apple 2 was the last really accessible low cost computer from Apple. That is a very long time ago. For the most part the rest of the machines to come out of Apples design shops have been closed systems.
I remember thinking that I was going to be one of the unlucky ones to not only break something installing an SSD into my mini though that the clips used for the memory modules would also cause a problem. I consider myself lucky on both. I was careful though christ was I nervous.
Luck has very very little to do with it. Let somebody near a machine with all the finesse of a Gorilla and things will end up broken.
Have things always been this way though or just recently? Maybe more visits are required to the Foxconn factory for quality control?
For what? You are implying here that there are issues with the current designs where all the evidence points to very reliable hardware that lasts a long time. Instead of getting all excited from people posting how they broke their machine (people that couldn't fix a bicycle), look instead at the machines overall reliability.
As a side note those cables are likely being broken because the user doesn't grasp that they are designed not to come apart under normal usage. Many a generic laptop has suffered from the lack of sound cabling where users have to fix things by reseating cables. People should be happy that Apple spends a couple of extra penny's on cables that don't fall off.
Heh maybe someone should tell Apple about Arctic Silver 5.
I get that Apple is responsible for design though who is responsible for putting all the components together?
Frankly I really didn't want to take out the HDD and put in the SSD though A. I really wanted a fast machine (of which a 5,400rpm hard drive is not part of in my view) and B. I wasn't going to pay Apple $600 for their SSD on top of $200 I would have had to pay for getting the discrete model mini.
I had also read stories of people trying to do simple tasks such as replace the memory (of which Apple even talks about on their website that customers can do) and the clips popping off. So you can understand why I was nervous.
I am not faulting Apple really. I love my 2011 mini and think it is a good machine, though I think nothing is perfect and if something can be improved upon than that's that.
I get that Apple is responsible for design though who is responsible for putting all the components together?
Frankly I really didn't want to take out the HDD and put in the SSD though A. I really wanted a fast machine (of which a 5,400rpm hard drive is not part of in my view) and B. I wasn't going to pay Apple $600 for their SSD on top of $200 I would have had to pay for getting the discrete model mini.
SSDs are really nice!
As to Apples pricing, yeah it does suck. At least with the new MBP roll out we are seeing much better pricing. In this regards I see the descrete GPU mini as a rip-off, the elevated price just isn't justified considering the extra hardware doesn't cover common usage.
I had also read stories of people trying to do simple tasks such as replace the memory (of which Apple even talks about on their website that customers can do) and the clips popping off. So you can understand why I was nervous.
I've seen people break stainless steel hydraulic fittings, so breaking a Mini isn't anything special. If such operations make you nervous then perhaps you should farm it out to a repair house.
I am not faulting Apple really. I love my 2011 mini and think it is a good machine, though I think nothing is perfect and if something can be improved upon than that's that.
I think I understand where you are coming from. The Mini is a great little machine that gets no respect at Apple. This is really the sad part of the whole deal with the Mini as Apple could and should do much better with the machine. It is bad enough that they over charge for a lackluster middle tier model, but every model offered is short on RAM. Given RAMs bargain basement pricing it just doesn't make one feel good about Apples marketing.
So what we have here in the Mini is a great concept bungled by Apple. I'm really hoping Apple sees the errors in its ways with the coming Mini and or it's replacement. The number one issue is that they should ship with enough RAM to run today's work loads well. People should not have too expect too update RAM right after leaving the showroom. Further buying a middle tier machine should get you a machine that can cover most popular GPU needs. It will be very interesting to see what the new machines look like and how they are configured.
I was actually considering sending it to OWC to have them do it for me though I eventually worked up enough confidence to do it myself and figured "Well, if I do this and it breaks than it's my own damn fault." This is not often seen with people. People try the same thing and then they break it and believe Apple should give them a brand new machine because "I'm the damn customer!"
I believe in the near future that probably in 2013 or 2014 the mini will be using onboard Flash storage like with the Airs and Retina MacBook Pros.
Well considering what I've seen over the years, many people should never get near anything mechanical!!!! I say this in all seriousness as I work in industrial maintenance and one of the first things we tell an operator with an issues is not to touch anything for fear that they will make things worst or hurt themselves. So when I see posts about people breaking things and how Apple sucks; I tend to think, no they suck. For the most part these machines will not break on their own.
As to machine maintenance, It would be better if the machines could be properly cleaned without the need for disassembly magic. The new Mini is actually a tiny improvement in this regards.
I agree somewhat here. A lot of computer designs are idiot proofed in that user serviceable parts did not contain tiny cables that break easily. I still dislike the idea of being locked out of changing a hard drive in a desktop machine by such factors. Apple has a significant markup on such a repair, and given that we're talking about expendable parts here, it should not be an issue. Typically it's one of the repairs that is actually worth it even on a very old machine if the rest is in good working order. It's like the battery on the rMBP. You've mentioned more experience with batteries than myself. My concern is gluing in expendable parts that are naturally expected to lose functionality before the rest of the machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
For what? You are implying here that there are issues with the current designs where all the evidence points to very reliable hardware that lasts a long time. Instead of getting all excited from people posting how they broke their machine (people that couldn't fix a bicycle), look instead at the machines overall reliability.
As a side note those cables are likely being broken because the user doesn't grasp that they are designed not to come apart under normal usage. Many a generic laptop has suffered from the lack of sound cabling where users have to fix things by reseating cables. People should be happy that Apple spends a couple of extra penny's on cables that don't fall off.
I think the reliability should still be higher in much of the line given the cost to repair it if anything does go. Apple has things integrated in a way where small things are just extremely expensive to replace. I don't agree that they always choose the best parts. The last really really well built display they had was the one Sony built for them. The rest have seen major problems. The uniformity on recent ones is actually pretty good. It's ahead of much of the competition, but you still see long term issues creep up. I suspect heat is an issue there. Most designs using comparable panels allow for some ventilation. Apple thinks vents are ugly.
Quote:
I suspect people do notice this crap! I'd like to see Mini sales splits because I suspect that many rejected the model containing the GPU because it simply isn't able to support many apps these days, thus the additional expense isn't worth it. A common term is Rip-Off.
The discrete gpu was almost a token gesture. Yes they implemented it, but they didn't implement it well. I don't consider it balanced. You have a machine that is capable of a fair range of tasks from a cpu standpoint (although the quad would be better) yet the gpu isn't appropriately matched. Going too low on ram annoys me as you won't notice it much if you're within what it will tolerate. In the case of both ram and vram, going beyond a certain point drops it off a cliff when things can no longer be held there. It's an area where not everyone gets it as you don't see nice linear gains on benchmarks simply due to increased ram. It just keeps it from tanking past a certain point.
Quote:
As to fabricated reasons many people have trouble getting with the program. I still have Windows users telling me that you don't need a descrete GPU. Even though Windows itself has been using GPU acceleration for some time. Like wise on the Mac, every Mac OS release has seen an increase in the use of GPU acceleration. In the end it is silly to buy a desktop or even a laptop these days without good GPU acceleration for general purpose usage.
I like AMD for the low end stuff. They at least balance it out better.
Quote:
Nothing in this world is manufactured perfectly. Could Mac Assembly be improved, that is almost certain, however the overall quality of the machines is still high relative to similar products from other manufactures.
Tolerance for variations encountered in manufacturing are built into any design. You can design a part in a CAD program to 1/100th of a millimeter or whatever. Good luck getting mechanical parts manufactured to such a tolerance (speaking of consumer grade products here). The thermal paste thing is a bit sloppy though. If you've seen some of the photos, it sometimes covers areas that it should not touch. Speaking of that, I need to repaste one of my old machines. I do use the right tools though, and I don't bend cables when removing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Well considering what I've seen over the years, many people should never get near anything mechanical!!!! I say this in all seriousness as I work in industrial maintenance and one of the first things we tell an operator with an issues is not to touch anything for fear that they will make things worst or hurt themselves. So when I see posts about people breaking things and how Apple sucks; I tend to think, no they suck. For the most part these machines will not break on their own.
As to machine maintenance, It would be better if the machines could be properly cleaned without the need for disassembly magic. The new Mini is actually a tiny improvement in this regards.
Yeah....
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
For what? You are implying here that there are issues with the current designs where all the evidence points to very reliable hardware that lasts a long time. Instead of getting all excited from people posting how they broke their machine (people that couldn't fix a bicycle), look instead at the machines overall reliability.
As a side note those cables are likely being broken because the user doesn't grasp that they are designed not to come apart under normal usage. Many a generic laptop has suffered from the lack of sound cabling where users have to fix things by reseating cables. People should be happy that Apple spends a couple of extra penny's on cables that don't fall off.
Quote:
Heh maybe someone should tell Apple about Arctic Silver 5.
When you reach a certain price level with a machine and we're no longer talking about things that are sold on razor thin margins, proper cabling should be a given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I think I understand where you are coming from. The Mini is a great little machine that gets no respect at Apple. This is really the sad part of the whole deal with the Mini as Apple could and should do much better with the machine. It is bad enough that they over charge for a lackluster middle tier model, but every model offered is short on RAM. Given RAMs bargain basement pricing it just doesn't make one feel good about Apples marketing.
So what we have here in the Mini is a great concept bungled by Apple. I'm really hoping Apple sees the errors in its ways with the coming Mini and or it's replacement. The number one issue is that they should ship with enough RAM to run today's work loads well. People should not have too expect too update RAM right after leaving the showroom. Further buying a middle tier machine should get you a machine that can cover most popular GPU needs. It will be very interesting to see what the new machines look like and how they are configured.
Apple's opinion has always been that they don't do low end. The mini's starting price has climbed over time. What I'd like to see from them is a little less focus on as small as possible and maybe a bit more toward efficient cooling so that you don't experience heat and noisy fans so easily. Balancing these things has always been an issue. Apple likes things that are pretty. They want the design to be different and make a statement. I care more about how things work especially under load. Apple has seen hiccups here. There was something with the power management. I think it was last year. The Apple discussion boards had people who mentioned that things like transcoding were eating their battery and causing eventual shutdowns even when the machine was plugged in. Given the way Apple pushes its laptops, I'm not surprised some people are doing this on their laptops. It's also common for a laptop to be used as a backup machine even if you own a mac pro. Most of those guys own macbook pros too.
Comments
Quad Core
Graphics card (Now the MBPs are NVIDIA maybe the GeForce GT 650M 512MB from the 13" MBP)
SSD system drive with hard drive storage in the second bay.
USB3
16GB RAM capacity
Here is what I'd like to see:
Note that this is only slightly more than the current machine, with a strong emphasis on the currently poor GPU implementation. The expansion slot could be a completely different format for all I care, the goal is a port to allow customization of the machine.
Of all Apples desktops I see the Mini as the best of their desktops right now. Unfortunately that isn't saying much as the machine is chronically underpowered even when paying extra for an upper tier model. Without much effort Apple could turn the machine into a far more desirable computer.
It just got a redesign, so nothing is happening there. Apple won't be making an xMac.
Would be awesome to have quads to choose from in the non server models
Up to 32GB ram would be exciting, although I think officially Apple will support 16GB; which I can totally live with.
Dedicated GPU with minimum 1GB VRam..... why so cheap with the VRam Apple !
Dual drive bays will probably by BTO unless going for the server model..... ( however I hope to get dual drives ) I'll probably order SSD's from Newegg or OWC depending on who is dealing.
Make it large enough to offer an open drive slot to allow the option of an internal optical drive for those of us that use it.
Just keep hitting ?+R.
If more VRAM is not standard, at least offer it as a CTO.??
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Again it would be nice to have at least one slot for an SSD. However smaller is the wrong direction to go for this platform.
Here is what I'd like to see:
Note that this is only slightly more than the current machine, with a strong emphasis on the currently poor GPU implementation. The expansion slot could be a completely different format for all I care, the goal is a port to allow customization of the machine.A slightly larger case to offer up more room for a powersupply bulk up. This would allow for some of the features that are needed below.
We still need a model with a descrete GPU, however if Apple screws us again I can't see a rush in sales. So the descrete GPU needs to be an upper midrange model with at least 512 MB of VRAM and preferably 1GB. The midrange GPU and RAM is in part the reason for a bigger box/power supply.
I agree quad cores should be a priority but I'm not sure Intel has one suitable for the machine. I'd actually like to see AMDs Trinity processor in the Mini as the GPU would be a huge win for the Mini. In any event I want to see laptop processors in the machine but I do wish that they could support high wattage units. The Mini should be close to equal to Apples laptop lines performance wise.
at least two TB ports.
USB 3 obviously.
SSD over PCI Express. Hopefully Apple defines a card format that wors on the Mini, iMac and the coming Mac Pro replacement. Apples new laptops are demonstrating rather impressive SSD performance right now, it is obvious that SATA will soon need to be replaced.
Bulk storage is still a real need so two bays for magnetic drives are required.
An expansion slot.
Hardware theft protection, so that the machine can always be found on the Internet.
Plenty of RAM capacity. Ideally expansion to 32 GB. Further ship the damn machine with at least 4GB of RAM IN THE BASE MACHINE. Apple has spent far to many years selling this thing without enough RAM. Use desktop RAM modules.
Of all Apples desktops I see the Mini as the best of their desktops right now. Unfortunately that isn't saying much as the machine is chronically underpowered even when paying extra for an upper tier model. Without much effort Apple could turn the machine into a far more desirable computer.
http://ark.intel.com/products/65710/Intel-Core-i7-3612QE-Processor-(6M-Cache-up-to-3_10-GHz)
They have quite a few skus. While I like ram capacity, I wouldn't expect 32 GB unless you do it yourself. They're using notebook boards and so far they've stuck to 2x sodimm configurations. I haven't located any 16GB sodimms yet. There are a couple 32GB rdimms available if you search around. Ivy Bridge should support the 16GB sticks assuming there aren't hardware incompatibilities on Apple's end, but none are available yet. It may be some time before pricing looks fully practical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player
All SSD making it even smaller ?
Even smaller wouldn't really add anything beyond gimmicky marketing. Their thermals are already pretty bad. I'd rather see them work on this rather than stressing every machine so hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
If more VRAM is not standard, at least offer it as a CTO.??
Vram was only a recent example. The thing I hate is when companies skimp in certain areas that are less effective in terms of marketing. It's the same with idevices. I'd only care quite a lot about specs if they affect the capabilities of the device within its native OS. The mini is cheap for a mac, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be more capable for a stationary machine that still requires roughly $1k of hardware on the conservative end to be functional as a desktop (display, mouse, keyboard not included).
Dual drive bays are already there. What I'm hoping for is enough room for one of their blade SSDs along with space for the hard drives. Considering how fast the new SSDs are. In the MBPs this would have a significant impact on performance of the machine and give it a new feel.
Of course what you have to be concerned with with Apple and SSDs is that they build in units that are too small. So if Apple does add a blade to the machine lets hope that it is at minimal a 256GB model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
Vram was only a recent example. The thing I hate is when companies skimp in certain areas that are less effective in terms of marketing. It's the same with idevices. I'd only care quite a lot about specs if they affect the capabilities of the device within its native OS. The mini is cheap for a mac, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be more capable for a stationary machine that still requires roughly $1k of hardware on the conservative end to be functional as a desktop (display, mouse, keyboard not included).
I agree with you and I'm hoping they eventually get it. When the mini was released last year; even seeing the AMD Radeon 6630M was a surprise but after a while to soak it all in, a friend and I agreed that 256 MB was a bit minimal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
I agree with you and I'm hoping they eventually get it. When the mini was released last year; even seeing the AMD Radeon 6630M was a surprise but after a while to soak it all in, a friend and I agreed that 256 MB was a bit minimal.
I think you understand my issues with these things quite well. They like to make cuts in areas that most people are unlikely to notice right away. Usually when I bring these things up, the replies contain fabricated statistics on how many people might actually make use of such a feature. Another thing that irritates me would be the thermal issues. These components are not all manufactured perfectly. If you've ever the ifixit teardowns, the thermal paste application is often pretty terrible. There are areas that could be improved dramatically to help thermal profiles. I hate it when fans kick up and the thing is still pushing 190F. If they're manufactured perfectly, this may not be an issue. If not, combined with eventual dust buildup, it can create problems. More people would clean out their machines to help one part of this if they were more accessible. Macrumors has a couple mini threads where people broke cables just trying to install an SSD. I'm extremely careful and I use proper tools, so it's not as likely that I would be one of them, but this still disturbs me in a stationary/desktop machine.
As I often say to people, "Made in China with pride." I remember thinking that I was going to be one of the unlucky ones to not only break something installing an SSD into my mini though that the clips used for the memory modules would also cause a problem. I consider myself lucky on both. I was careful though christ was I nervous.
Have things always been this way though or just recently? Maybe more visits are required to the Foxconn factory for quality control?
Heh maybe someone should tell Apple about Arctic Silver 5.
As to fabricated reasons many people have trouble getting with the program. I still have Windows users telling me that you don't need a descrete GPU. Even though Windowsitself has been using GPU acceleration for some time. Like wise on the Mac, every Mac OS release has seen an increase in the use of GPU acceleration. In the end it is silly to buy a desktop or even a laptop these days without good GPU acceleration for general purpose usage. Nothing in this world is manufactured perfectly. Could Mac Assembly be improved, that is almost certain, however the overall quality of the machines is still high relative to similar products from other manufactures.
Well considering what I've seen over the years, many people should never get near anything mechanical!!!! I say this in all seriousness as I work in industrial maintenance and one of the first things we tell an operator with an issues is not to touch anything for fear that they will make things worst or hurt themselves. So when I see posts about people breaking things and how Apple sucks; I tend to think, no they suck. For the most part these machines will not break on their own.
As to machine maintenance, It would be better if the machines could be properly cleaned without the need for disassembly magic. The new Mini is actually a tiny improvement in this regards.
As a side note those cables are likely being broken because the user doesn't grasp that they are designed not to come apart under normal usage. Many a generic laptop has suffered from the lack of sound cabling where users have to fix things by reseating cables. People should be happy that Apple spends a couple of extra penny's on cables that don't fall off.
I get that Apple is responsible for design though who is responsible for putting all the components together?
Frankly I really didn't want to take out the HDD and put in the SSD though A. I really wanted a fast machine (of which a 5,400rpm hard drive is not part of in my view) and B. I wasn't going to pay Apple $600 for their SSD on top of $200 I would have had to pay for getting the discrete model mini.
I had also read stories of people trying to do simple tasks such as replace the memory (of which Apple even talks about on their website that customers can do) and the clips popping off. So you can understand why I was nervous.
I am not faulting Apple really. I love my 2011 mini and think it is a good machine, though I think nothing is perfect and if something can be improved upon than that's that.
As to Apples pricing, yeah it does suck. At least with the new MBP roll out we are seeing much better pricing. In this regards I see the descrete GPU mini as a rip-off, the elevated price just isn't justified considering the extra hardware doesn't cover common usage. I've seen people break stainless steel hydraulic fittings, so breaking a Mini isn't anything special. If such operations make you nervous then perhaps you should farm it out to a repair house.
I think I understand where you are coming from. The Mini is a great little machine that gets no respect at Apple. This is really the sad part of the whole deal with the Mini as Apple could and should do much better with the machine. It is bad enough that they over charge for a lackluster middle tier model, but every model offered is short on RAM. Given RAMs bargain basement pricing it just doesn't make one feel good about Apples marketing.
So what we have here in the Mini is a great concept bungled by Apple. I'm really hoping Apple sees the errors in its ways with the coming Mini and or it's replacement. The number one issue is that they should ship with enough RAM to run today's work loads well. People should not have too expect too update RAM right after leaving the showroom. Further buying a middle tier machine should get you a machine that can cover most popular GPU needs. It will be very interesting to see what the new machines look like and how they are configured.
I was actually considering sending it to OWC to have them do it for me though I eventually worked up enough confidence to do it myself and figured "Well, if I do this and it breaks than it's my own damn fault." This is not often seen with people. People try the same thing and then they break it and believe Apple should give them a brand new machine because "I'm the damn customer!"
I believe in the near future that probably in 2013 or 2014 the mini will be using onboard Flash storage like with the Airs and Retina MacBook Pros.
i want to see a quad i7 and a proper GPU.
then a pair of free memory slots (base memory soldered on is OK) and option for SSD+HDD.
if you say thats not possible to do, i say the mini form factor is officially broken!
Wow, that takes me back… soldered + user-upgradable RAM in the same machine…
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Well considering what I've seen over the years, many people should never get near anything mechanical!!!! I say this in all seriousness as I work in industrial maintenance and one of the first things we tell an operator with an issues is not to touch anything for fear that they will make things worst or hurt themselves. So when I see posts about people breaking things and how Apple sucks; I tend to think, no they suck. For the most part these machines will not break on their own.
As to machine maintenance, It would be better if the machines could be properly cleaned without the need for disassembly magic. The new Mini is actually a tiny improvement in this regards.
I agree somewhat here. A lot of computer designs are idiot proofed in that user serviceable parts did not contain tiny cables that break easily. I still dislike the idea of being locked out of changing a hard drive in a desktop machine by such factors. Apple has a significant markup on such a repair, and given that we're talking about expendable parts here, it should not be an issue. Typically it's one of the repairs that is actually worth it even on a very old machine if the rest is in good working order. It's like the battery on the rMBP. You've mentioned more experience with batteries than myself. My concern is gluing in expendable parts that are naturally expected to lose functionality before the rest of the machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
For what? You are implying here that there are issues with the current designs where all the evidence points to very reliable hardware that lasts a long time. Instead of getting all excited from people posting how they broke their machine (people that couldn't fix a bicycle), look instead at the machines overall reliability.
As a side note those cables are likely being broken because the user doesn't grasp that they are designed not to come apart under normal usage. Many a generic laptop has suffered from the lack of sound cabling where users have to fix things by reseating cables. People should be happy that Apple spends a couple of extra penny's on cables that don't fall off.
I think the reliability should still be higher in much of the line given the cost to repair it if anything does go. Apple has things integrated in a way where small things are just extremely expensive to replace. I don't agree that they always choose the best parts. The last really really well built display they had was the one Sony built for them. The rest have seen major problems. The uniformity on recent ones is actually pretty good. It's ahead of much of the competition, but you still see long term issues creep up. I suspect heat is an issue there. Most designs using comparable panels allow for some ventilation. Apple thinks vents are ugly.
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I suspect people do notice this crap! I'd like to see Mini sales splits because I suspect that many rejected the model containing the GPU because it simply isn't able to support many apps these days, thus the additional expense isn't worth it. A common term is Rip-Off.
The discrete gpu was almost a token gesture. Yes they implemented it, but they didn't implement it well. I don't consider it balanced. You have a machine that is capable of a fair range of tasks from a cpu standpoint (although the quad would be better) yet the gpu isn't appropriately matched. Going too low on ram annoys me as you won't notice it much if you're within what it will tolerate. In the case of both ram and vram, going beyond a certain point drops it off a cliff when things can no longer be held there. It's an area where not everyone gets it as you don't see nice linear gains on benchmarks simply due to increased ram. It just keeps it from tanking past a certain point.
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As to fabricated reasons many people have trouble getting with the program. I still have Windows users telling me that you don't need a descrete GPU. Even though Windows itself has been using GPU acceleration for some time. Like wise on the Mac, every Mac OS release has seen an increase in the use of GPU acceleration. In the end it is silly to buy a desktop or even a laptop these days without good GPU acceleration for general purpose usage.
I like AMD for the low end stuff. They at least balance it out better.
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Nothing in this world is manufactured perfectly. Could Mac Assembly be improved, that is almost certain, however the overall quality of the machines is still high relative to similar products from other manufactures.
Tolerance for variations encountered in manufacturing are built into any design. You can design a part in a CAD program to 1/100th of a millimeter or whatever. Good luck getting mechanical parts manufactured to such a tolerance (speaking of consumer grade products here). The thermal paste thing is a bit sloppy though. If you've seen some of the photos, it sometimes covers areas that it should not touch. Speaking of that, I need to repaste one of my old machines. I do use the right tools though, and I don't bend cables when removing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Well considering what I've seen over the years, many people should never get near anything mechanical!!!! I say this in all seriousness as I work in industrial maintenance and one of the first things we tell an operator with an issues is not to touch anything for fear that they will make things worst or hurt themselves. So when I see posts about people breaking things and how Apple sucks; I tend to think, no they suck. For the most part these machines will not break on their own.
As to machine maintenance, It would be better if the machines could be properly cleaned without the need for disassembly magic. The new Mini is actually a tiny improvement in this regards.
Yeah....
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
For what? You are implying here that there are issues with the current designs where all the evidence points to very reliable hardware that lasts a long time. Instead of getting all excited from people posting how they broke their machine (people that couldn't fix a bicycle), look instead at the machines overall reliability.
As a side note those cables are likely being broken because the user doesn't grasp that they are designed not to come apart under normal usage. Many a generic laptop has suffered from the lack of sound cabling where users have to fix things by reseating cables. People should be happy that Apple spends a couple of extra penny's on cables that don't fall off.
Quote:
Heh maybe someone should tell Apple about Arctic Silver 5.
When you reach a certain price level with a machine and we're no longer talking about things that are sold on razor thin margins, proper cabling should be a given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I think I understand where you are coming from. The Mini is a great little machine that gets no respect at Apple. This is really the sad part of the whole deal with the Mini as Apple could and should do much better with the machine. It is bad enough that they over charge for a lackluster middle tier model, but every model offered is short on RAM. Given RAMs bargain basement pricing it just doesn't make one feel good about Apples marketing.
So what we have here in the Mini is a great concept bungled by Apple. I'm really hoping Apple sees the errors in its ways with the coming Mini and or it's replacement. The number one issue is that they should ship with enough RAM to run today's work loads well. People should not have too expect too update RAM right after leaving the showroom. Further buying a middle tier machine should get you a machine that can cover most popular GPU needs. It will be very interesting to see what the new machines look like and how they are configured.
Apple's opinion has always been that they don't do low end. The mini's starting price has climbed over time. What I'd like to see from them is a little less focus on as small as possible and maybe a bit more toward efficient cooling so that you don't experience heat and noisy fans so easily. Balancing these things has always been an issue. Apple likes things that are pretty. They want the design to be different and make a statement. I care more about how things work especially under load. Apple has seen hiccups here. There was something with the power management. I think it was last year. The Apple discussion boards had people who mentioned that things like transcoding were eating their battery and causing eventual shutdowns even when the machine was plugged in. Given the way Apple pushes its laptops, I'm not surprised some people are doing this on their laptops. It's also common for a laptop to be used as a backup machine even if you own a mac pro. Most of those guys own macbook pros too.